In light of all things Confederate (statues, graves, memorials, names of historic buildings etc) being destroyed, banned, and erased from history, I hereby declare that it is long past time for the University of North Carolina to ban the grossly offensive name "Tarheels".

The name Tarheel was a nickname bestowed upon Confederate soldiers and regiments from NC during the Civil War honoring them for their bravery in battle.

How dare a public institution like UNC take and promote such "hate speech" with a name that pays tribute, honor, and glory to a bunch of racist, slave owning, Confederate soldiers terrorists. This is an outright travesty that marginalizes the minority students at the school and encourages intolerance and racism.

If we are tossing all offensive history down the "memory hole", then it is about time we get rid of the racist, offensive name "Tarheel" at UNC.

Who's with me!!!!!!

7/8/2017 3:32:04 PM

I don't get the hard-on for celebrating the worst time period in our Country's history. Nor the need to ensure we memorialize it throughout the south.

7/8/2017 5:01:37 PM

Sure go for it.

7/8/2017 5:59:46 PM

If your measure for paying homage to any US figure includes not being a slave-owner and somewhat racist, you're gonna want to clean out quite a few monuments in DC... just saying...

7/8/2017 6:06:43 PM

Nah, the measure is closer to those who killed other Americans and created a separate government just so they could own black people.

The fact that the founding fathers largely owned slaves is deplorable, but we don't celebrate that fact. We celebrate the fact that they put this country together.

But when it comes to the Civil War era, we celebrate battle flags the flew above those trying to kill others so they could own some other people. Or we pay homage to confederate soilders or generals, who killed people to own people.

Ya see the difference?

7/8/2017 6:17:42 PM

This is satire....just FYI

7/9/2017 12:27:57 AM

Omg no wai is

7/9/2017 1:17:04 AM

wai.

Although it would be a pretty epic prank if UNC actually went for it. We could then add it to the list of epic TWW antics that actually had an effect on the real world.

NCSU message board trolls UNC into changing name.....pretty funny.

7/9/2017 1:29:52 AM

proggies are waaaay to hypocritical for this to work. i like your thinkin tho

7/9/2017 6:52:56 AM

Isn't there some debate about the origin of Tar Heel? That it may pre-date the civil war? Maybe I'm wrong.

7/9/2017 7:21:30 AM

The sure sign of great satire is explaining it's satire. ~ Mark Twain, 1897

7/9/2017 10:33:43 AM

Stop trying so hard, especially on a message board that like 5 people still check daily.

7/9/2017 12:58:49 PM

Quote :

"Nah, the measure is closer to those who killed other Americans and created a separate government just so they could own black people."

That's a really drastic oversimplification of the civil war... and I feel like you know that. Again, I'm not trying to justify anything, but the Civil war was about WAY more than if white folks could own black folks.

7/9/2017 1:48:32 PM

Y'all, we don't gotta have this argument...at all...ever.

The South's the best. We all know it. So there's no need to argue about some old war. Instead, we just gotta redouble our efforts to keep new whites out. They talk funny, and they're dumb and don't know it.

7/9/2017 2:04:09 PM

the south made biscuits and gravy, it's not all bad

7/9/2017 2:15:57 PM

Lost Cause!!!

7/9/2017 2:33:38 PM

Quote :

"If your measure for paying homage to any US figure includes not being a slave-owner and somewhat racist"

Cool strawman!

7/9/2017 2:34:09 PM

Quote :

"created a separate government just so they could own black people."

someone didnt pay attention in history class :x

7/9/2017 3:03:02 PM

^^How is that a strawman??

7/9/2017 4:12:17 PM

^It's a textbook strawman.

Nobody said or even remotely suggested that "not being a slaveowner or somewhat racist" was their measure for determining whether or not we should honor a historical figure.

You made that position up out of nothing...and then you argued with that position by pointing out that we're gonna have tear down a bunch of monuments in DC if that's our measure. And then you were all "just saying," like you had some kind of point. Do you understand?


red baron 22, please stop sharing your down home attempts at satire. I don't really mind this kind of thing...in person...with a beer in my hand and several more in the cooler...but you're not actually supposed to type out this silly bullshit. This thread is embarrassing, and you don't seem to know it, and it makes me sad.

7/9/2017 5:14:59 PM

but do you still wuv me?

7/9/2017 5:40:57 PM

Quote :

"someone didnt pay attention in history class :x"

go on.....

7/9/2017 6:42:39 PM

why does everyone feel like they have to point out logical fallacies in arguments

none of us are impressed TBH :3

7/9/2017 7:09:46 PM

Quote :

"Nobody said or even remotely suggested that "not being a slaveowner or somewhat racist" was their measure for determining whether or not we should honor a historical figure."

Quote :

"How dare a public institution like UNC take and promote such "hate speech" with a name that pays tribute, honor, and glory to a bunch of racist, slave owning, Confederate soldiers terrorists."

yup.... I totally made that up.

[Edited on July 9, 2017 at 10:04 PM. Reason : .]

7/9/2017 10:03:06 PM

His post was obviously facetious. That's not actually his position. I guess, if anything, he was first to the strawman:

Quote :

"If we are tossing all offensive history down the "memory hole""

Regardless, I don't really care about all those monuments in DC or whether or not we continue honoring Colonel Beauregard Fancypants Collegeboy.

So, fuck it, tear them all down and rename anything with origins dating back before 1900.

7/9/2017 11:30:53 PM

Quote :

"So, fuck it, tear them all down and rename anything with origins dating back before 1900."

UNC didnt have black students until the 1950s

7/10/2017 6:03:49 AM

^^It's not really my position either, and yea it wasn't my best argument ever, but this is chitchat, not TSB and I feel like there's a difference... "just saying"

Let's be friends.

7/10/2017 1:07:19 PM

This whole Confederate monument thing....I'm not sure exactly where I stand.

But I feel like a comparison would be Great Britain somehow having monuments of Washington, Jefferson, Franklin, etc spread out in pro-American towns in the UK (Not saying there were any, I doubt there were). A group of men who just didn't want to pay taxes that some would argue were rightfully due the mother country.

Sure one could argue states' rights for the reason of the Civil War, but it will never be that simple and entire textbooks have been written about it by men smarter than us. The states' right to keep and maintain the institution of slavery was the key right they wanted to preserve, and if anybody doubts that, they can read it in the Confederacy's constitution. But the monuments were also erected in memory of the thousand of conscripts who didn't have a choice. Who had to fight and die for this new country that many of them probably didn't really care about.

So I'm conflicted.

Even Jefferson Davis was a loyal congressman up until his state seceded. States meant something completely different back then than they do now. I bet no one this day and age would stand with their state for anything (except maybe Texans and Californians) but back then, a person's state was pretty much their sovereign country.

7/10/2017 2:57:04 PM

I don't think that's a proper comparison really. The American Revolution (and reasons for), while some might consider it in a negative light, is not historically looked at in that way. The reasons for southern secession is pretty historically viewed as how you described. A better analogy would be some country keeping monuments of say, Mussolini or Nazis. From what I understand, countries like that have done a fairly admirable job of scrubbing themselves of what they now recognize as terrible decisions (regardless of how many natives to those countries died in their wars, involuntarily.

7/10/2017 3:06:21 PM

It always ends with nazis

7/10/2017 3:11:09 PM

^^^I'm with you, for a lot of the same reasons. For me however, the final answer is that those statues and monuments pretty much belong in a museum. No other nation (AFAIK) holds defeated rebels in esteem. Reasons for secession notwithstanding, I feel like we should mark civil war sites with a nice sign, and move any other artifacts or stuff of value/homage, to museums. We certainly shouldn't erase our history, but I think celebrating (maybe that's not a good word to use) the bloodiest war in American history just isn't appropriate.
Also, super good point about the definition of "State" meaning something totally different 200 years ago. I think the US was thought of more like the EU is now, where the federation wasn't the most powerful thing around. Maybe I'm oversimplifying.
Finally, you forgot Hawaii. Their population would back secession in a heartbeat if they thought it was really possible.



[Edited on July 10, 2017 at 3:14 PM. Reason : dependent clauses... ]

7/10/2017 3:12:38 PM

I realize that wanting to keep an entire race of people as your property so you can work, rape, and murder them as you want is different than just wanting to kill them off entirely

But this isn't exactly the embodiment of Godwin's Law here

7/10/2017 3:14:23 PM

Nah, state means the same thing now

7/10/2017 3:15:57 PM

^I think you're in the minority. But I'm a federal government employee, so of course I would think that.

7/10/2017 3:21:12 PM

We all work for the federal government.

7/10/2017 3:58:21 PM

fuck that rases shit, clint

7/10/2017 5:11:12 PM

rjrumfel and wizzkidd,

I understand what you're saying. I'm somewhat conflicted as well. I've had varying thoughts on the romanticism of the "Lost Cause" and the honorifics bestowed upon the Confederates.

As stated earlier, State identity meant a hell of a lot more back then than it does now. I completely respect all the Confederate soldiers who were at home and got drafted into the war. There really wasn't a choice, and its not like all Confederate soldiers were slaveowners - most were just poor people workin a farm - which was the major industry of the South. Hell I'd be willing to be that a few Union officers might have been slaveholders.

I think maybe it (the romanticism of the Confederates & the "Lost Cause") was over done during the Reconstruction period. And I understand a bit of why I think it was done that way. We really, by that time, were two different countries. Sure, militarily speaking the North had one, but ideologically I think they lost.

There was a lot of hate on both sides for each other, and I think there was a significant need for the Northern and Southern leaders to do whatever they could to heal those wounds; and a by-product of that is the "Lost Cause", the monuments, the Confederate reunions, and all these organizations such as "Sons of the Confederacy" and all that.

But I do think its hypocritical to use the reason of "they were slaveowners" as the excuse to tear down monuments of Jefferson Davis, Robert E Lee, and others. If that's the sole reason, that they were racist and slaveowners, then there's a lot of shit that needs to be taken down all across the country - including the North.

If the reason is "well they were traitors to their nation", ok I can kinda see that, but I do think its a weak reason because of the previously stated deal that loyalty to your state was a bigger deal back then. A good portion of Confederate generals and gov't personnel had (until their state seceded) been serving or had previously served in the US gov't.

If you want to take down statues and shit because "it'll end racism", then I'm going to think you're somewhat short-sighted. A symbol doesn't make someone racist. The Germans have done all they can to get rid of Nazi shit, yet Nazis and their ideas still exist. We can have all the symbols of the Confederacy destroyed, but racism will still exist because you're not addressing the root of racism, but merely destroying what some racists latch onto as a symbol. Its been 152 years since the end of the Civil War, and still racism exists and it exists because we refuse, as a country, to tackle and deal with IT, we instead go after tangible symbols. Hell, the Civil Rights Act was passed about 100 years after the Civil War. If the War was supposed to solve this, then why the need for the CRA? Because we refuse to address the actuality of racism, and so it will continue to persist.

I'm from NC, and my family (both maternal & paternal) have been in the state in the early 1800s. I have ancestors that fought with the Confederacy, fought with the Union, and that fought against them both (holler at my mountain folks). My mountain peoples didn't give 2 fucks about the Union and Confederates, they just wanted to be left alone (and still do).


Anyway, that's my incoherent rambling/stream of consciousness thought for this am.

7/12/2017 8:43:03 AM

oh, and it would be funny as hell to troll UNC enough to where they would change their name.

7/12/2017 8:48:50 AM

Some of the levels of anti-Confederacy is getting ridiculous, as in the case of the Hunley. Yes, the Hunley was a Confederate warship. Yes the men of the Hunley took down a ship of the US fleet, surely killing many crewmembers on board.

But as far as I know, this was the first submarine to actually successfully sink a ship. Historically speaking, that's a pretty big deal. And to think of the balls on those men - they had to work by candle light in an underwater tin can. Candlelight, burning the same oxygen that their breathing. Brave or stupid, you pick, but it was something.

There were plans to build a museum for the Hunley in some North Charleston suburb, and last I heard, that suburb was up in arms because Confederacy.

But this should be viewed as a piece of not just Confederate history, but naval history. American history.

7/12/2017 8:53:02 AM

Quote :

"But this should be viewed as a piece of not just Confederate history, but naval history. American history."

...in a museum.

7/12/2017 8:59:21 AM

THOSE BRAVE, DEAD IDIOTS OF THE H. L. HUNLEY

GOD REST THEIR STUPID SOULS

7/12/2017 9:08:33 AM

^^yes, in a museum, for all the reasons stated in rjrumfel's post.

7/12/2017 9:14:57 AM

^^OMFG Thomas Selfridge was such a fucking idiot to be the first person to die in a plane crash. God didn't give man wings so he wasn't meant to fly!

That is the plan, to build a museum for the CSS Hunley. The Hunley is a technological marvel and to me one of the most interesting pieces of tech that came from the Civil War. Technology that was developed during the Civil War is fascinating to me, such as the ironclad, the gatling gun (wasn't used in the Civil War however) and the submarine. Also the Civil War was the first war to have photography which documented it and makes it more "real" now.

It seems that the issue isn't locating a museum in North Charleston because of "Confederates=racists" and more about funding. North Charleston promised $13 million ten years ago, but that disappeared. Now the issue some are raising is that South Carolina is funding the repair and renovation of the Hunley (not the museum though) but didn't kick in their full allotment this year for the proposed African-American Museum in Charleston. Sounds like both of them are simply having funding issues, just like the Medal of Honor Museum which is also proposed to be built in Charleston.

And it looks like the Hunley could end up at Patriot's Point, which I would be fine with. It doesn't cover much about the Civil War yet, but that could give them a basis to add some coverage of naval warfare during the Civil War.

[Edited on July 12, 2017 at 9:34 AM. Reason : ]

7/12/2017 9:32:38 AM

They were idiots for fighting for the Confederacy, not for climbing into baby's first submarine.

[Edited on July 12, 2017 at 9:49 AM. Reason : ///]

7/12/2017 9:49:28 AM

Quote :

"Some of the levels of anti-Confederacy is getting ridiculous"

i like the guy who doesn't want to go hiking on a cool geological formation because someone carved into part of it

7/12/2017 10:08:33 AM

Just boycott the southern states entirely, ya fuckin carpet bagger.

7/12/2017 10:43:13 AM

^^ yep, that's me

7/12/2017 11:33:04 AM

sweet, my satire is relevant again.

UNC kids are protesting a statue, but not their racist confederate name

8/22/2017 11:50:29 PM