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 Message Boards » » Chelsea Manning Page 1 [2], Prev  
dtownral
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A lot of words to say, "yes, whatabout..."

5/18/2019 6:53:13 AM

theDuke866
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Even you cannot be that fucking obtuse.

5/18/2019 8:58:41 AM

JesusHChrist
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Quote :
"so...what're your thoughts about Hillary Clinton?"


Not sure why you're asking me this a solid two months after my post, but I'm sure you can guess my position.

State secrets are bullshit. Like, uniformly. State secrets are completely at odds with the concept of democratic self governance. A citizenry cannot make informed decisions when the state apparatus withholds information from the population. This level of secrecy and unequal application of the law is a hallmark characteristic of authoritarian regimes.

If a politician can leak or disclose ISueS of NaTionAL SecuRity without consequence, and low-level grunts in the military cannot leak that same information without being locked in a dark cage, then there is clearly a double standard happening. If the information is super-duper-extra-top-secret-deluxe-with-cheese and cannot under any circumstances being revealed, then it stands to reason that the punishment would be uniformly applied. The fact that this is not the case, and the punishment for exposing classified information is NEVER uniformly applied demonstrates just how ridiculous the permanent security state is. It also shows how dangerously close the US government is to being totalitarian in nature, with defacto one-party rule where members within the party are protected from all wrongdoing and non-party members are punished for the crime of exposing wrongdoing from political actors.

It's insane to me that we are focusing the debate on how severely those who expose government wrongdoing should be punished, rather than discussing the information that is being exposed.

5/19/2019 12:06:06 AM

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Quote :
"that the right is making much ado about nothing regarding Hillary's security breaches."


I didn't say that.

Quote :
"Manning, Clinton, the whole circle of Trumps and Trumps-in-law...fuck all of them, in my book."


I'm mostly in agreement with that sentiment, but recklessly and blindly turning over a million military and diplomatic records to fucking Wikileaks is just a wee bit worse than Hillary not abiding by the proper secure protocol in her email communications. And the shit that the Trumps are pulling is in a different stratosphere than both of those examples.

Quote :
"It's insane to me that we are focusing the debate on how severely those who expose government wrongdoing should be punished"


So you're chalking up the totality of Manning's data dump to Wikileaks as "government wrongdoing"? Tell us more.

5/19/2019 2:50:41 AM

TreeTwista10
Laugh, Think, Cry
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Lot of things to shit on TheDuke for. Not voting for Hillary seems pretty low on the list.

5/19/2019 2:53:27 AM

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Quote :
"Not voting for Hillary seems pretty low on the list."


Well, the only reason it's even a topic of discussion is because he keeps saying things like:

Quote :
"Also, I have said many, many times that while Hillary is loathsome and her willful mishandling of classified material should otherwise be disqualifying, she would be immensely preferable to Trump. Like, to the point that I’d likely vote for her"


but he didn't do that exact thing when given the opportunity in 2016, because (i'm not going to look up the exact quote) he thought that it wouldn't matter because he thought she had already won/would easily win Florida for some reason? Perhaps he can fill us in on those details...

5/19/2019 3:01:29 AM

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https://gizmodo.com/chelsea-manning-responds-after-top-u-n-official-labels-1840771479

1/2/2020 2:11:28 PM

daaave
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Hero

1/2/2020 4:23:07 PM

dtownral
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Her still being held is obviously terrible, but how is she a hero?

1/2/2020 5:04:26 PM

daaave
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Shed light on US war crimes

Tortured for 7 years

Continued anti-war activism following her release

Went back to prison in protest of coercive confinement

1/2/2020 5:13:27 PM

dtownral
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But she didn't "shed light on war crimes" she simply released a large amount of documents to julian assange without any kind of critical review, selection, or editorializing

1/2/2020 7:47:02 PM

daaave
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With the intention of revealing the nature of our asymmetric warfare practices. We were in the midst of two illegal and unethical wars where our soldiers were massacring civilians and torturing people. Why does it matter that it was a raw dump and not editorialized initially?

1/2/2020 8:43:19 PM

NyM410
J-E-T-S
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Even Snowden has been openly critical about releasing without modest curation (his words).

Still atrocious that she is basically in solitary for not testifying against Assange.

1/2/2020 9:01:03 PM

daaave
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He also praised her for what she did. You can criticize the method (I personally don't care that it wasn't curated), while still accepting that what she did was heroic and good for the world.

https://twitter.com/Snowden/status/821476926372118531

1/2/2020 9:13:03 PM

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