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UJustWait84
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Hopefully today. Total waste of time.

2/12/2021 1:25:34 PM

Bullet
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Nah

2/12/2021 3:09:53 PM

UJustWait84
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I mean it's not a waste of time to try and ensure he never has the ability to run again or hold office, and it's not a waste of time to show the American public what really happened, but this isn't a courtroom, and the "jury" is already rigged (Cruz and Hawley met with Trump's lawyers last night). There's no way in hell he's going to get convicted, so move it along and let the SDNY/GA courts do their thing. Thankfully, whatever crowing and bragging about Trump's acquittal will be limited since his lawyers will probably tell him to STFU.

2/12/2021 3:28:14 PM

daaave
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Quote :
" I mean it's not a waste of time to try and ensure he never has the ability to run again or hold office"


This doesn’t even matter bc they’ll run Ivanka instead

2/12/2021 4:29:53 PM

A Tanzarian
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McConnell says he'll acquit because of jurisdictional concerns.

2/13/2021 10:40:12 AM

The Coz
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Total cowardice on the part of GOP Senators. Was expecting this outcome, of course, but still disappointing.

2/13/2021 12:34:34 PM

rwoody
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Votes to call witnesses throwing Trump team and repub party into panic

Changes mind 5 min later

2/13/2021 1:35:11 PM

The Coz
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Richard Burr, WTF?!

Still not credible, but I'll take it.

2/13/2021 5:01:58 PM

UJustWait84
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^^

LOL. You still seem pretty new to politics. That last hour "tease" was just the media's attempt to draw higher ratings. It was hearsay, and even if it was true (shit, it could have even been captured on tape!) witness testimony would have done JACK SHIT to change today's outcome. Instead of attacking the impeachment managers who did a WAYYYY better job for round two, be glad that 7 Republicans grew a spine, risking their lives and political careers.

Trump is going to be quite busy fighting off charges from SDNY/GA/etc, and it was a complete waste of time to prolong a sham trial that was already predetermined. Time to move on, get COVID relief, and use this as fuel to get people off their asses to vote blue again in 2022.


[Edited on February 13, 2021 at 5:06 PM. Reason : .]

2/13/2021 5:04:12 PM

rwoody
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They voted on it?

2/13/2021 5:18:35 PM

UJustWait84
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They also voted the trial was Constitutional, and then the GOP turned around and said that it wasn't and used it as the defense. Did you not listen to Mitch's closing remarks?

2/13/2021 5:22:33 PM

rwoody
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Wtf does that have to do with what I said? Dems voted to call witnesses then somebody cowered under the slightest pressure and they changed back

2/13/2021 5:26:58 PM

Money_Jones
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^i think the point is that there was absolutely nothing that would have gotten enough traitors to flip and convict, so might as well go ahead and end this so that we can proceed with legislation to actually help people

2/13/2021 5:29:28 PM

UJustWait84
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^^You still don't get it. The Senate was literally under siege and had to flee for their lives and the GOP STILL supported Trump. It was all on fucking tape and the world watched it happen! Sorry you didn't realize how corrupt, soulless, and evil the GOP up until now...



[Edited on February 13, 2021 at 5:32 PM. Reason : ^ thank you]

2/13/2021 5:30:45 PM

rwoody
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I don't give a fuck about the GOP? I don't support them and make no effort to try to hold them to do anything because I know they won't. However Democrats could have easily made them squirm, they're about to go on recess will be doing nothing for the next 9 days so why not put these fucks on the stand and put them in front of the American public nothing to lose

[Edited on February 13, 2021 at 5:43 PM. Reason : ^^i might get that if they weren't about to leave town for a week now]

2/13/2021 5:42:54 PM

dmspack
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Quote :
" ^i think the point is that there was absolutely nothing that would have gotten enough traitors to flip and convict, so might as well go ahead and end this so that we can proceed with legislation to actually help people"


While this is true, we also knew before any impeachment hearings even began that there was never gonna be enough GOP to flip to convict. That was always the case.

2/13/2021 5:48:11 PM

UJustWait84
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^^You can continue to bargain with reality and blame the very people who tried to bring the truth to light if it makes you feel better, or you can try and look at the brighter side and realize how stupid and short sighted the GOP was for doing what they just did, and the fact that Americans aren't unmotivated voters anymore- at least not based on the last two election cycles.


Oh, and Congress going on recess even when they need to do their fucking jobs, will ALWAYS be a problem regardless of who's in charge.

[Edited on February 13, 2021 at 5:52 PM. Reason : Dude, I'm pissed too. But none of this is surprising. Be mad at the GOP- they did it]

2/13/2021 5:51:23 PM

Money_Jones
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^^yes, and it was important to impeach, to say this is unacceptable. But drawing it out longer than it needs to be, preventing Democrats from trying to enact their agenda doesn’t make sense

2/13/2021 6:06:06 PM

rwoody
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No thanks, I'll keep trying to hold democrats accountable. Especially on this site where there are like 0.5 Republicans left?

As DMS implied, your argument could be used to say why impeach at all.

Know how to determine if calling witnesses was a good idea? Look to see if it pissed off and worried Republicans. If it did, it's probably a good idea.

[Edited on February 13, 2021 at 6:08 PM. Reason : ^THEY'RE GOING ON RECESS ]

BreeNewsome:
Quote :
"Y’all there’s no justification for Dems not putting more effort into this.

1)“Minds were already made up”
Apparently not b/c there was movement among GOP

2)“He’d be acquitted anyway” then why have proceeding at all?

3)”It’s about the public record” then why not call witnesses?"


[Edited on February 13, 2021 at 6:14 PM. Reason : E]

2/13/2021 6:07:38 PM

UJustWait84
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Quote :
"As DMS implied, your argument could be used to say why impeach at all."


But he WAS impeached. TWICE.

Your misdirected hostility isn't fixing anything, but feel free to Monday morning QB all you want and blame the very people that did the jobs they needed to do.

You keep forgetting that ACTUAL COURTROOMS can/will try him criminally/civilly, where they can call as many witnesses as they want, without wasting time in Congress.Those kinds of trials can drag on for weeks/months.



[Edited on February 13, 2021 at 6:20 PM. Reason : Get off Twitter and stop regurgitating political spin. You're not making things better.]

2/13/2021 6:16:17 PM

rwoody
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Who do you think I'm blaming and what do you think I'm blaming them for?

Your counterpoints never have anything to do with the initial point

[Edited on February 13, 2021 at 6:18 PM. Reason : E]

2/13/2021 6:17:40 PM

UJustWait84
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Dude, you're whining about the fact that the Dem managers didn't drag out a sham impeachment trial that was baked in. Listen to yourself.

2/13/2021 6:20:54 PM

rwoody
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You're right they shouldnt have bothered with the whole thing, a waste of time.

"drag out" an attempt to put these bad actors on the public record

I don't even know what the impeachment managers had to do with this. I'm "whining" about the senators that voted for witnesses, then immediately went back on it when McConnell threatened them. I'm fucking tired of cowardly Dems scared of their own shadows. Use your power, you owe it to the people.

[Edited on February 13, 2021 at 6:24 PM. Reason : E]

2/13/2021 6:24:18 PM

UJustWait84
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Quote :
"LOL. You still seem pretty new to politics"


Also, it wasn't a waste of time, just because the outcome didn't match whatever fantasy you concocted in your mind. It was the right thing to do; the principled thing to do. Americans saw it and they're pissed. They'll do what they just did in November and early January- vote.



[Edited on February 13, 2021 at 6:30 PM. Reason : .]

2/13/2021 6:26:40 PM

rwoody
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You're the one implying it's a waste of time read your own words. "drag out" "sham" "baked in". I wanted them to spend MORE time.

And I knew the way the vote would come out their smart guy, who didn't? I'm not looking for witnesses bc it would have convinced anyone, it wouldn't.

I'd love you to say why it was a good idea to have witnesses at noon but a bad idea at 3pm

2/13/2021 6:34:41 PM

UJustWait84
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You're falling for a distraction and failing to see the big picture. I can't help you if you don't want to see and accept the truth. Go back and re-read my posts: it was both a SHAM "trial" with a predetermined outcome, AND the right thing to do because he was fucking guilty. They're not mutually exclusive. The "trial" in the Senate is over, but the war is not.

[Edited on February 13, 2021 at 6:40 PM. Reason : .]

2/13/2021 6:38:09 PM

rwoody
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So you're saying the democrats held the vote to distract us??


(also since you want to mix threads, re Americans voting, many wont be if Sinema and Manchin refuse to let voting rights bill get through)

[Edited on February 13, 2021 at 6:49 PM. Reason : E]

2/13/2021 6:48:03 PM

UJustWait84
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I think you're misreading what happened.

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/democrats-call-subpoenaing-gop-rep-jaime-herrera-beutler/story?id=75873161

Quote :
"The written testimony of Rep. Jaime Herrera Beutler, R-Wash., -- one of ten House Republicans who voted to impeach former President Donald Trump -- was admitted into evidence in the impeachment trial on Saturday, instead of moving further with the process for hearing from witnesses.
"


That was the compromise since BOTH sides knew the verdict was baked in.

Again, the entire insurrection was all on tape. What good would it do to call her to testify? Who's mind would change, let alone the overall verdict? Are you still forgetting that Cruz and Hawley's attorney's met with Trump, which in any REAL court room, would never be allowed to happen?

I think you're a little confused about what a real courtroom trial is like, because a Senate trial is NOT the same thing.



[Edited on February 13, 2021 at 6:58 PM. Reason : I'm ignoring your red herring about Manchin/Sinema since they have zero to do with this thread and v]

2/13/2021 6:53:11 PM

rwoody
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That was the compromise AFTER McConnell threatened them. The republicans won that battle, clearly. If the line is 0 witness testimony vs like 8 witnesses and the result is 0 witnesses plus 1 piece of written testimony, seems like the side that wanted 0 won.

2/13/2021 6:56:50 PM

rwoody
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Quote :
"Multiple sources close to the impeachment managers disputed that claim, saying instead it was significant pressure from Senate Democrats that resulted in their decision to change course. The House managers wanted to bring Rep. Jaime Herrera Beutler (R-Wash.) in to testify, only relenting after receiving pushback from multiple Senate Democrats, they said."

Quote :
"The jury is ready to vote," Coons told the managers, according to a senior House Democratic aide. "People want to get home for Valentine‘s Day."


[Edited on February 13, 2021 at 7:06 PM. Reason : E]

2/13/2021 7:06:42 PM

UJustWait84
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All 50 Dems voted to impeach, so I don't know who else there is to blame for acquitting him other than the 43 QOPers who voted to acquit. You keep pretending/bargaining that a hypothetical outcome would have somehow been different, while ignoring the painfully obvious. You're playing right into the GOP playbook of infighting. Keep it up.

2/13/2021 9:04:29 PM

rwoody
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I'm not blaming the Dems for acquittal, jesus christ stop being so dense

2/13/2021 9:25:11 PM

phried
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Wait, is it now the QOP or the GQP?

I prefer the latter.

2/14/2021 10:39:41 AM

Bullet
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I'm not sure what exactly UJW is arguing

2/14/2021 4:22:02 PM

rwoody
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Yea i don't know he has a weird condescending posting style that makes hard to know whether he understands you. It's why I tried to explicitly ask him who/what he thought I was "blaming". His last post here shows he likely misunderstood the whole time.

Maybe I'm bad at communicating?

Its funny too, he is worried that my posting on tww is "infighting" that will harm the party. You what Republicans have done lately that with elects reps that didn't do what the far right wanted? They primaries them out of office. I don't know if the GOP has the same fucked up incumbent protection schemes as the Dems but the GOP voters seem far more willing to punish people who don't walk the line.

[Edited on February 14, 2021 at 6:23 PM. Reason : E]

2/14/2021 6:19:30 PM

UJustWait84
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^ perhaps I DID misunderstand you, and if that's the case, I apologize. Here's what MY take was:

^^
I'm arguing that it's dumb to piss and moan about calling witnesses and prolonging a sham trial when the outcome was predetermined and had zero chance changing. He knows this. We all do.

I'm arguing that the entire insurrection was basically recorded and live-streamed and he's making a bad faith argument that it's Dem's fault for losing a rigged trial for not dragging it out further, which I think is not only unproductive, but not at all helpful.

I'm also arguing that this internet handwringing about them going on recess is also dumb, because the GOP's strategy has always meant that if they didn't get their way (quick sham trial and guaranteed acquittal), they were going to call 300+ witnesses who would just repeat the claims of the election being stolen and make even more of a mockery of the Legislative branch, because they openly said they'd refuse to do ANY legislative work until the trial was over. He keeps insinuating that it's the Dems fault for not passing COVID relief sooner, as if they don't have a completely insane/obstructionist party in the way.

I'd also like to point out that he's forgetting that many of these Senators/House Reps not only experienced trauma by actually being there during the insurrection attempt, but they had to be forced to relive the incident and watch laughable clip packages of themselves saying the words "fight" over and over again, completely out of context. Many of the Senators are monsters, but some of them- especially those who actually lived through the trauma- have every reason to have wanted to "call it a day" and get home to see their families- many of whom are regularly receiving death threats, btw. Is it shitty that Congress routinely goes on recess when they need to do their jobs? Absolutely, but the House impeachment managers DID their jobs, and if you disagree, I'd suggest you just rewatch the actual "trial" and get back to me.

But rwoody apparently doesn't seem to actually care about progress, or trying to make things better. He comes on here to complain and point fingers. Instead of being relieved and glad that a terrible play ended, he wants to throw a hissy fit and demand another ridiculous act before the finale-- one that everyone saw coming before the play even was written. He's attacking the people who did their jobs to the best of their ability, and glossing over the actual truth. Why? I have no idea. I guess it's easier to look for reasons to blame Democrats than to admit that the QOP is "better" at dysfunctional politics.

He is often rational and makes strong points and valid critiques from time to time, but he needs to get off toxic Twitter and take a walk outside so he can realize that most Americans don't give a fuck about Trump anymore and they know he's facing tons of legal challenges which will reduce his stronghold over America.

Yeah, we're all pissed that Trump got away with impeachment twice, but use that anger to attack the people who allowed it to happen, instead of the very people trying to prevent it from ever happening again.

Hopefully that makes sense.


[Edited on February 14, 2021 at 6:30 PM. Reason : He can critique their "performance" all he wants; I just think he's wrong. ]]

2/14/2021 6:25:47 PM

rwoody
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Quote :
"I'm arguing that it's dumb to piss and moan about calling witnesses and prolonging a sham trial when the outcome (don't give a fuck about the outcome and convincing senators, I care about convincing the people that the Republican party is fully culpable, witnesses would help do that) was predetermined and had zero chance changing. He knows this. We all do.

I'm arguing that the entire insurrection was basically recorded and live-streamed and he's making a bad faith argument that it's Dem's fault for losing (never came close to this argument, you made this straw man out of thin air, I JUST said this one post up) a rigged trial for not dragging it out further, which I think is not only unproductive, (they sure thought it was productive at noon) but not at all helpful"

Quote :
"as if they don't have a completely insane/obstructionist party in the way."

They have a majority. Any obstruction they are allowing. I don't know all rules of who is allowed to call witnesses but again, Dems have power to steam roll anything republicans do, if Sinema and Manchin got in line.

Quote :
"Many of the Senators are monsters, but some of them- especially those who actually lived through the trauma- have every reason to have wanted to "call it a day" and get home to see their families- (petty much all the senators are independently wealthy, if they are too traumatized to do their jobs they should get therapy or retire. The entire nation is traumatized and right now. Also, if they want future govt officials to not be traumatized they need to hold people like Hawley and Cruz accountable. That's for the Dem senators, the rep senators that want to go home can fuck all the way off. They deserve the trauma, reap...sow. many of whom are regularly receiving death threats, btw. Is it shitty that Congress routinely goes on recess when they need to do their jobs? Absolutely, but the House impeachment managers DID their jobs, I don't think I ever even mentioned th house managers"


Quote :
"But rwoody apparently doesn't seem to actually care about progress, or trying to make things better"


Says the guy that is ok with the filibuster. Good luck getting any good legislation through outside of reconciliation.

Quote :
"He's attacking the people who did their jobs to the best of their ability, "


They didn't though, they had the ability to call witnesses but they were too traumatized so they went home.

Quote :
"can realize that most Americans don't give a fuck about Trump anymore "


I guess this is why you've said and implied repeatedly that the whole thing was a waste of time.


And if you don't think the I'm pissed at republicans you're delusional. The difference is the republican aren't worth discussing. Most should be out of office, at min, many should be in jail. I expect more from Dems. That probably makes me naive, but so be it. I hold dems to a higher standard. I have to, without that where is hope???

2/14/2021 7:15:32 PM

UJustWait84
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Quote :
"I don't give a fuck about the outcome and convincing senators, I care about convincing the people that the Republican party is fully culpable, witnesses would help do that) "


Um, good luck? Voters already cancelled Trump, but I guess because the election was close and Trump lied about the outcome maybe it'll take a while for it to truly sink in? It's sad/scary/frustrating, but that's what happens when basically everything goes wrong in a democracy. The only thing that saved it was the fact that 81M people voted for Biden; I wish it were more, but 7M votes was a big enough cushion to get the job done. If they hadn't, a REAL coup would have been the result, and we probably wouldn't be bickering on TWW right now...

Quote :
" They sure thought it was productive at noon) "


Who is "THEY"? Senators? House impeachment managers? Do you have a link to a credible source that has a clear record of which how/why Senators actually voted? I sure don't.


Quote :
"
They have a majority. Any obstruction they are allowing. I don't know all rules of who is allowed to call witnesses but again, Dems have power to steam roll anything republicans do, if Sinema and Manchin got in line."


First of all, you're right. You don't know the rules very well. We all got that part loud and clear. I'm not claiming to know them all either, but I'm not attacking anyone's "performance", am I? Did you actual watch the trial? I did. Not every single minute of it, but enough to know that the tapes proved Trump was guilty.

Secondly, it's a 50/50 split in the Senate (you know, the place where the "trial" actually took place) with Harris as tie breaker-- HARDLY a "majority" to easily ram COVID relief through. The only reason he was impeached in the House of Representatives is because they had enough votes AND they didn't need 2/3rds of the House to impeach him. Only 10 republicans in the house voted to impeach. 199 didn't.

Quote :
" Pretty much all the senators are independently wealthy, if they are too traumatized to do their jobs they should get therapy or retire. The entire nation is traumatized and right now. Also, if they want future govt officials to not be traumatized they need to hold people like Hawley and Cruz accountable. That's for the Dem senators, the rep senators that want to go home can fuck all the way off. They deserve the trauma, reap...sow."


OK, so you're trivializing people's trauma now AND blaming them for what happened? I kinda think all my points may never register because you're way too angry and irrational to think about the entire situation objectively. Like I said, calm down, go for a walk outside and stay away from Twitter- it's not good for you to be so angry at the wrong people. Schumer sucks as leader, but you're still not seeing the big picture, and I'm starting to think it's because you don't WANT to...


Quote :
" Says the guy that is ok with the filibuster. Good luck getting any good legislation through outside of reconciliation. "
?

Excuse me? When have I ever said that? All I said in another thread is that she voted her conscience, so +1 for her. Same goes for Burr. You apparently didn't really bother the read the article posted which basically says she votes however the fuck she wants, and she isn't just going to vote party line. That's why I compared her to Romney, and I'd love to see you find ANY posts where I have ever praised him. I honestly don't know enough about Sinema to have a much of opinion on her either way, but she strikes me as someone who is kinda all over the map, so I don't take her very seriously. Manchin has been in the Senate for far longer, and he's made it clear he's a DINO, so I'll give you that.

Quote :
"They didn't though, they had the ability to call witnesses but they were too traumatized so they went home.
"


Says the guy that doesn't even know the rules and is too angry to view the entire situation at face value, all while making lame, bad faith arguments. But anyway, they didn't call witnesses because then the GOP would call witnesses. You really think it would be a productive use of time to draw out the circus even longer? Sorry, I just don't see any upside to that approach, and I think you're in the minority with your stance.

Quote :
"
I guess this is why you've said and implied repeatedly that the whole thing was a waste of time. "


Overall, yeah. It was a big waste of time and money, given the shitty outcome. That doesn't mean it wasn't the RIGHT thing to do. I waste my time doing all kinds of things like replying to emails that nobody bothers to read, or explaining things to people who don't listen, but that's part of my job, and part of life in general.

Quote :
"And if you don't think the I'm pissed at republicans you're delusional. The difference is the republican aren't worth discussing. Most should be out of office, at min, many should be in jail. I expect more from Dems. That probably makes me naive, but so be it. I hold dems to a higher standard. I have to, without that where is hope???"


Oh I can see PLENTY of anger in your posts, but the way that you frame your arguments--the Democrats not burning a time-out at the end of the game when they had no chance of winning--your anger needs to be redirected at the people who did the WORST things- voting to acquit, let alone selling the "Big Lie" and being in cahoots with Trump (hello, Mr. Cruz/Hawley/McCarthy)

So yeah, you do sound kinda naive about how everything played out; the Dems totally went with the Utilitarian approach (harms the least while doing the most good), and I'm sorry you're so surprised and disappointed because they didn't live up to your personal standards. At least you're admitting it though, so that's a good first step.

It's up to you to work on your anger/negativity, but I'll do my part to work to not try and egg you on. I re-read my posts and apologize for the condescension-- I just hate seeing people trot out the narrative that this is all the Democrats fault when it wasn't. Sounds like victim blaming, reframed in a 2021 context, but what do I know? In the end we're all on the same team, and I don't wanna be a dick to my teammates.

I'll just leave it at that.

[Edited on February 14, 2021 at 10:56 PM. Reason : .]

2/14/2021 10:54:02 PM

rwoody
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Quote :
"Who is "THEY"? Senators? House impeachment managers? Do you have a link to a credible source that has a clear record of which how/why Senators actually voted? I sure don't."


Jesus fucking christ man
https://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=117&session=1&vote=00058

Quote :
"First of all, you're right. You don't know the rules very well (that's not what I said so fuck off) We all got that part loud and clear. I'm not claiming to know them all either, but I'm not attacking anyone's "performance" (why did you use quotes here? Have I used that word once?) , am I? Did you actual watch the trial? I did. Not every single minute of it, but enough to know that the tapes proved Trump was guilty.(so? Did I say otherwise?)

Secondly, it's a 50/50 split in the Senate (you know, the place where the "trial" actually took place) with Harris as tie breaker-- HARDLY a "majority" to easily ram COVID relief through (with a filibuster in place, you're exactly right! Without its EXACTLY enough) "


Quote :
"AND blaming them for what happened? I "


Asking them to fix it /= to blaming

Quote :
"said in another thread is that she voted her conscience"


Voting your conscience counts for shit if your conscience says you want it to be harder to help people

Quote :
" But anyway, they didn't call witnesses because then the GOP would call witnesses. You really think it would be a productive use of time to draw out the circus even longer? Sorry, I just don't see any upside to that approach, and I think you're in the minority with your stance."


55 senators thought it was a good idea. Also Republicans spent months and months dragging out a useless benghazi trial, all they got was the presidency. I would love to put Cruz Hawley Mccarthy etc on the stand and make them describe under oath the events of the day. Its not about Trump anymore its about the next Trump. It's about 2022 and 2024.

Quote :
"Overall, yeah. It was a big waste of time and money, given the shitty outcome. That doesn't mean it wasn't the RIGHT thing to do."


It kinds does? If the time was more valuable than what was accomplished, it shouldbt have been done. I for one think it was easily worth the time. Wtf else were they going to be doing

Quote :
"your anger needs to be redirected at the people who did the WORST things- voting to acquit, let alone selling the "Big Lie" and being in cahoots with Trump (hello, Mr. Cruz/Hawley/McCarthy)"


MY ANGER IS WITH THEM I WANT TO PUT THEM ON THE STAND AND MAKE THEM ANSWER FOR THEIR PART IN THIS

Quote :
"and I'm sorry you're so surprised and disappointed because they didn't live up to your personal standards. At least you're admitting it though, so that's a good first step."


Im am unfortunately not very surprised at all, I am absolutely disappointed bc, yet again, they said they voted to call witnesses. Weird when the US senate holds a vote to do something I get disappointed when they don't.

But fair, you and earl agree. I should always expect the worst from democrats. Probably pointless to vote anymore, give up advocating for causes I care about. I'm too naive, should listen to people that tell me voting I useless and they're all the same.

Quote :
"re-read my posts and apologize for the condescension--"


You must be joking. This entire post is riddled with condescension. Hey mine probably is now too, oh well.

Quote :
" I just hate seeing people trot out the narrative that this is all the Democrats fault when it wasn't. "


I. NEVER. SAID. THAT. Nothing close to that.

Im done with this if you respond to this, here is the what my answer to most of your post I ahead of time: "I didn't say that stop making shit up"

2/15/2021 12:12:01 AM

UJustWait84
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Quote :
"Grouped By Vote Position
YEAs ---55
Baldwin (D-WI)
Bennet (D-CO)
Blumenthal (D-CT)
Booker (D-NJ)
Brown (D-OH)
Cantwell (D-WA)
Cardin (D-MD)
Carper (D-DE)
Casey (D-PA)
Collins (R-ME)
Coons (D-DE)
Cortez Masto (D-NV)
Duckworth (D-IL)
Durbin (D-IL)
Feinstein (D-CA)
Gillibrand (D-NY)
Graham (R-SC)
Hassan (D-NH)
Heinrich (D-NM)
Hickenlooper (D-CO)
Hirono (D-HI)
Kaine (D-VA)
Kelly (D-AZ)
King (I-ME)
Klobuchar (D-MN)
Leahy (D-VT)
Lujan (D-NM)
Manchin (D-WV)
Markey (D-MA)
Menendez (D-NJ)
Merkley (D-OR)
Murkowski (R-AK)
Murphy (D-CT)
Murray (D-WA)
Ossoff (D-GA)
Padilla (D-CA)
Peters (D-MI)
Reed (D-RI)
Romney (R-UT)
Rosen (D-NV)
Sanders (I-VT)
Sasse (R-NE)
Schatz (D-HI)
Schumer (D-NY)
Shaheen (D-NH)
Sinema (D-AZ)
Smith (D-MN)
Stabenow (D-MI)
Tester (D-MT)
Van Hollen (D-MD)
Warner (D-VA)
Warnock (D-GA)
Warren (D-MA)
Whitehouse (D-RI)
Wyden (D-OR)

NAYs ---45
Barrasso (R-WY)
Blackburn (R-TN)
Blunt (R-MO)
Boozman (R-AR)
Braun (R-IN)
Burr (R-NC)
Capito (R-WV)
Cassidy (R-LA)
Cornyn (R-TX)
Cotton (R-AR)
Cramer (R-ND)
Crapo (R-ID)
Cruz (R-TX)
Daines (R-MT)
Ernst (R-IA)
Fischer (R-NE)
Grassley (R-IA)
Hagerty (R-TN)
Hawley (R-MO)
Hoeven (R-ND)
Hyde-Smith (R-MS)
Inhofe (R-OK)
Johnson (R-WI)
Kennedy (R-LA)
Lankford (R-OK)
Lee (R-UT)
Lummis (R-WY)
Marshall (R-KS)
McConnell (R-KY)
Moran (R-KS)
Paul (R-KY)
Portman (R-OH)
Risch (R-ID)
Rounds (R-SD)
Rubio (R-FL)
Scott (R-FL)
Scott (R-SC)
Shelby (R-AL)
Sullivan (R-AK)
Thune (R-SD)
Tillis (R-NC)
Toomey (R-PA)
Tuberville (R-AL)
Wicker (R-MS)
Young (R-IN)

"


Thanks for that link, I was too lazy to Google. Coincidentally enough, 55-45 was the exact same vote tally that allowed the impeachment trial to begin on a "constitutional" basis in the first place, but we all know how that turned out. The GOP pulled a "Lucy" and yanked the football right away like they always do.

Weird how Lindsay Graham would vote for witnesses, yet vote to acquit later. I wonder why that may have been the case? Why on earth would anyone suddenly change their minds?

Actually, I don't wonder at all. If you know anything about Lindsay Graham and Mitch McConnell their behavior throughout the entire spectacle was trademark.

2/15/2021 12:34:33 AM

rwoody
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Quote :
"was too lazy to Google"

2/15/2021 8:31:23 AM

Pupils DiL8t
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Quote :
"Maybe I'm bad at communicating?"


Quote :
"You what Republicans have done lately that with elects reps that didn't do what the far right wanted? They primaries them out of office."


2/15/2021 9:24:55 AM

rwoody
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Lol
1. Thanks for reading
2. Touche/fair point/woops! Gotta love typing on a phone keyboard and going top fast

2/15/2021 9:28:57 AM

UJustWait84
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https://apple.news/Ao90LYHwCT8SEb_Vek9pbQw

Quote :
" When Tapper asserted that witnesses "might have made the case more compelling," Plaskett quickly interjected to ask him if he thought they would have convinced any more senators to convict. When Tapper acknowledged he didn't know, Plaskett flashed a dubious expression. 

Sen. Chris Murphy, D-Conn., agreed the impeachment managers "might have lost votes if they had moved forward with a week or two or three weeks of argument over witnesses." 
"They weren't going to get any more Republican votes than they had," Murphy told CNN. "I think they made the right decision to move to closing arguments." 


Before Saturday, impeachment managers had indicated they did not intend to call witnesses, arguing they had made their case without them. But after Herrera Beutler issued a statement Friday saying that Trump had rebuffed a plea from House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy to urge the rioters to stop, Raskin made an unexpected request to depose her. 
The Senate quickly followed with a 55-45 vote to approve his request, sending the proceedings into chaos as the House managers, defense lawyers and senators scrambled to determine how the rules over how the addition of witnesses would be handled.
"


To me, it sounded like you were wrongly blaming Senators for a decision Raskin made, but in the end this is what I called it earlier: a distraction. All 50 Dems votes to acquit, so I really wasn’t getting your argument- it was sounding like the bs I avoid reading on Twitter.

In other words MY argument has basically always been: “We didn’t need more witness testimony, we needed more Republicans with a spine”

Also, the “performance” in air quotes was alluding to my theatre/play metaphor. I wasn’t trying to put words in your mouth or create some straw man, believe it or not.

Clearly we BOTH need to communicate better, AND read more. Fwiw, I find it valuable to argue with people I disagree with to be a healthy thought exercise, but I do need to watch the condescension, because I can just be a condensing asshole when I’m
not even trying to be

[Edited on February 15, 2021 at 11:15 AM. Reason : Sorry dawg- we were both talking past each other ]


[Edited on February 15, 2021 at 11:26 AM. Reason : .]

2/15/2021 11:07:28 AM

Bullet
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I think one of the most important things about these proceedings (and the possible calling of witnesses) is establishing a historical record... otherwise, the way politics moves these days, most people will probably forget about this whole thing in a few years (months).

2/15/2021 11:14:20 AM

daaave
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man, jared kushner will be on dancing with the stars in a month. and in a few years, trump will be rehabilitated just like reagan and bush were. this was all a waste of time and energy.

2/15/2021 11:30:17 AM

UJustWait84
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^^ fair enough, but the record has already been established. It’s all on tape, and it’s far from over. I don’t have a crystal ball, but I foresee endless legal troubles for Trump and while people are stupid, they also get distracted easily and will move on to the next shiny object.

[Edited on February 15, 2021 at 11:33 AM. Reason : ^ not sure if serious, but he gon be cancelled if true]

2/15/2021 11:31:51 AM

UJustWait84
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Whelp, it looks like rwoody was totally right about Senators wanting to go on vacation.

2/19/2021 2:20:34 AM

UJustWait84
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I WAS TALKING ABOUT TED CRUZ

2/24/2021 12:55:54 AM

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