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daaave
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Here we go again. Evo Morales, who won a fair election, and even offered the right-wing protestors a second election, has resigned to avoid violence from the protest-aligned police and military. Because that's totally something a ravenous dictator would do. And now the police have put out a warrant for his arrest.

Seems like the tipping point for Bolivian oligarchs/the West was his efforts to nationalize the lithium industry.

Just like in Chile, Argentina, Uruguay, Brazil, etc, get ready for a surge of violence toward the socialist indigenous population:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-50332167
https://twitter.com/nick_w_estes/status/1193711278574821376
https://twitter.com/redfishstream/status/1193826369702109184

[Edited on November 11, 2019 at 11:22 AM. Reason : .]

11/11/2019 11:18:03 AM

Dentaldamn
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Global capital always wins.

11/11/2019 1:09:49 PM

A Tanzarian
drip drip boom
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who won a "fair" election

11/11/2019 3:24:43 PM

horosho
All American
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Elections are only fair when the billionaire class benefits.

Stand with hong kong and Israel. Everyone else can fuck off.

11/11/2019 3:50:28 PM

daaave
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Quote :
"who won a "fair" election"


How was it not fair?

11/11/2019 3:56:25 PM

A Tanzarian
drip drip boom
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I guess we could start with running for a third* term when constitutionally limited to two.

(*under the new constitution)

11/11/2019 4:16:03 PM

daaave
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Latin American governments are constantly under siege by right-wing opposition, often with the cooperation (or direction) of foreign intelligence agencies or multinational corporations.

Morales and MAS have made great strides in improving the lives of Bolivians and it would be an absolute shame to have that destroyed by racist, corporatist right wingers. So they extended the term limit via completely legal means to (hopefully) continue this work. And then they won the election, fairly.

This is a situation of colonized, indigenous people fighting for their right to self-determination. Let's not discredit that because they used a tool at their disposal to keep that fight going.

[Edited on November 11, 2019 at 4:36 PM. Reason : .]

11/11/2019 4:33:37 PM

NyM410
J-E-T-S
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I wish the UK just said “fuck off” to their referendum vote like Bolivia did in 2016. Would have been better for all tbh.

Aside from that I know very little on what is going on in Bolivia (or Chile). Need to read up on it.

[Edited on November 11, 2019 at 4:41 PM. Reason : X]

11/11/2019 4:41:02 PM

A Tanzarian
drip drip boom
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Quote :
"extended the term limit via completely legal means"


Yes, he lost a constitutional referendum, filed a lawsuit, and somehow found infinite terms are a human right.

MAS needs to find Morales' successor. He's not irreplaceable.

11/11/2019 4:51:06 PM

daaave
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^^
If you really want to dig in, I would highly recommend The Shock Doctrine by Naomi Klein. It was published in 2008 so it ends with Iraq, but knowing the history of violent neoliberal regime change provides necessary context to why Latin American socialist leaders tend to forgo some democratic "norms".

Quote :
"Yes, he lost a constitutional referendum, filed a lawsuit, and somehow found infinite terms are a human right.

MAS needs to find Morales' successor. He's not irreplaceable."


Ok? Plenty of other countries have infinite terms, including our very own legislative and judicial branches. Complain about the way it happened, whatever, but he still held fair elections afterwards and won. It's funny how when socialist leaders play dirty, they're corrupt and authoritarian and must be deposed, but when the first world (or their own opposition) does it, *crickets*

He's not irreplaceable, but when you're battling the constant threat of a hostile coup, name recognition could be what propels you to victory.

[Edited on November 11, 2019 at 5:04 PM. Reason : .]

11/11/2019 4:58:08 PM

A Tanzarian
drip drip boom
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Forgo democratic "norms" like counting votes?

11/11/2019 5:05:25 PM

daaave
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There is absolutely no proof that votes weren't counted. The results matched exit polling. More on that here:

http://cepr.net/press-center/press-releases/no-evidence-that-bolivian-election-results-were-affected-by-irregularities-or-fraud-statistical-analysis-shows

And despite this, Morales was offering another election before the right wing fascists threatened him and his party with violence.

Do you want fascists in Bolivia like in Brazil? Because that's how this ends.

[Edited on November 11, 2019 at 5:28 PM. Reason : .]

11/11/2019 5:10:11 PM

dtownral
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Is Sanders the only candidate correctly calling this a coup?

11/11/2019 8:28:06 PM

daaave
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Yeah. AOC and Omar are the only other ppl that have issues statements condemning it as far as I know. Corbyn had a good statement also.

This is just so disgusting and sad

https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/1194000271745179649?s=21

11/11/2019 8:35:11 PM

StTexan
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The election wasn’t fair and the people wanted him out. What is the problem?

11/11/2019 9:09:14 PM

dtownral
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No evidence that the election wasnt fair, he was ousted in a coup, the people who ousted him are violently attacking his supporters

What's not the problem?

11/11/2019 10:15:44 PM

GrumpyGOP
yovo yovo bonsoir
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There was absolutely evidence of election fraud, and that's bad.

This is also absolutely a coup, which is also bad.

On balance I suspect Bolivia will be worse off without Morales, but this isn't a battle between "fairly elected" and "devious criminals."

Quote :
"It's funny how when socialist leaders play dirty, they're corrupt and authoritarian and must be deposed, but when the first world (or their own opposition) does it, *crickets*"


Just off the top of my head, I can think of one prominent first world leader who is decried as corrupt and authoritarian, and who a plurality of Americans support deposing. Of course, he's also calling it a coup, but I'm pretty sure he's not a socialist.

11/13/2019 9:07:38 AM

dtownral
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Can you link to the evidence, all I've seen were early statements that were shown false

11/13/2019 9:17:22 AM

dtownral
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https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings-statements/statement-president-donald-j-trump-regarding-resignation-bolivian-president-evo-morales/
Quote :
"The United States applauds the Bolivian people for demanding freedom and the Bolivian military for abiding by its oath to protect not just a single person, but Bolivia’s constitution. "


coup
_____________________________________________

https://twitter.com/MarkWeisbrot/status/1193644001783623683
Quote :
"They never did find any evidence of fraud in the October 20th election, but the media repeated the allegation so many times that it became "true," in this post-truth world. Thread:"


[Edited on November 13, 2019 at 10:36 AM. Reason : .]

11/13/2019 10:32:11 AM

daaave
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https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-11-11/bolivia-faces-power-vacuum-and-more-chaos-after-morales-quits

Descendants of Spanish colonizers violently deposing the first indigenous government and saying "the bible has returned to the government palace."

There's no need to both sides this one based on flimsy evidence from an organization that is historically a tool of right wing regime change (OAS).

11/13/2019 11:10:21 AM

GrumpyGOP
yovo yovo bonsoir
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The OAS report is flimsy, but implying that one side is worse because it has a higher percentage of Spanish ancestry is rock-solid.

11/13/2019 11:24:39 AM

dtownral
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are you saying the anti-indigenous people motivations to this are not real or that they don't matter

11/13/2019 11:26:36 AM

GrumpyGOP
yovo yovo bonsoir
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Neither. I'm saying that invoking the conquistadors is stupid.

11/13/2019 11:36:20 AM

dtownral
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how does that not play a part of the anti-indigenous motivations?

11/13/2019 11:39:27 AM

daaave
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Quote :
"The OAS report is flimsy, but implying that one side is worse because it has a higher percentage of Spanish ancestry is rock-solid."


They're not worse solely because they're descendants of colonizers. They're worse because they own the vast majority of the wealth in Bolivia and are racist & discriminatory toward indigenous people.

Sort of like the Republican Party, who descended from slave-owners. It's an issue of generational wealth and supremacism.

https://twitter.com/marwa__osman/status/1194497747929485312?s=21

wow

[Edited on November 13, 2019 at 12:03 PM. Reason : .]

11/13/2019 11:52:18 AM

dtownral
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history of colonization definitely has nothing to do with the new president saying that the city is not for indians

11/13/2019 12:22:33 PM

daaave
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https://twitter.com/jmcolony/status/1196241867261857799?s=21

Quote :
" "The Bolivian dictatorship has announced that starting Monday it will arrest legislators from [@evoespueblo's] Movement Towards Socialism Party. [Arturo] Murillo, [a govt minister] who days ago spoke of a "hunt" being on, says he has a list of MPs to detain. This is very grave.""

11/18/2019 12:48:40 AM

0EPII1
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^^^ that's so terrible.

here is one of the replies, and it figures she wants to do what her ancestors did for 100s of years starting 500 years ago:

https://twitter.com/niceprinter12/status/1194609430580604928

11/18/2019 5:51:05 AM

utowncha
All American
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send more missionaries

11/18/2019 7:54:45 AM

daaave
All American
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https://twitter.com/adamserwer/status/1196413373333884928?s=21

(btw this is what would have happened in Venezuela as well)

11/18/2019 2:03:39 PM

daaave
All American
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wtf

https://twitter.com/ewarren/status/1196519189583974402?s=21

11/18/2019 4:04:24 PM

BanjoMan
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Sometimes I wonder what latin america would have been like without US involvement due to drug enforcement.

The entire continent would have been run by drug money, but maybe they would have been better off.

11/18/2019 11:03:16 PM

Dentaldamn
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So....an agriculture based economy?

11/18/2019 11:17:52 PM

daaave
All American
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Quote :
"US involvement due to drug enforcement. "


lol this is not why the US got involved in Latin & South America

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manifest_destiny
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monroe_Doctrine

[Edited on November 19, 2019 at 11:44 AM. Reason : .]

11/19/2019 11:41:11 AM

BanjoMan
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^ Yes, I am aware of other reasons that the US got involved with Latin America. I am talking specifically about the US getting personally involved in the drug trade.

11/19/2019 12:06:51 PM

dtownral
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Opinion: The OAS lied to the public about the Bolivian election and coup
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/the-oas-lied-to-the-public-about-the-bolivian-election-and-coup-2019-11-19

11/20/2019 9:55:11 AM

daaave
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https://www.state.gov/the-united-states-supports-the-transitional-government-in-bolivia-to-achieve-free-fair-and-inclusive-elections/

11/21/2019 4:53:12 PM

utowncha
All American
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send more wesleyans

12/4/2019 7:40:53 PM

daaave
All American
959 Posts
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Bolivia dismissed its October elections as fraudulent. Our research found no reason to suspect fraud.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/02/26/bolivia-dismissed-its-october-elections-fraudulent-our-research-found-no-reason-suspect-fraud/

2/27/2020 11:47:42 AM

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