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 Message Boards » » Why has San Fran been allowed to become an... Page [1]  
0EPII1
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...open-air toilet? Literally.

Tucker Carlson: San Francisco Now Filthier and More Chaotic Than Downtown Mumbai, India
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MfVIWsF9zjc

I have heard from here and there or seen pics before, but this is the first time I see video footage of what SF has been allowed to become. Man, that's terrible. Looks like a total shit-hole, literally.

Why? How did that happen? How is that good for the city, the city's residents, the city's visitors, the economy, and the country?

Even the cop they interviewed has become disenchanted and complacent, because according to her the local government doesn't give a shit any more.

Serious question: Why don't US politicians fixed America's deep societal ills and evils rather than running around trying to run the rest of the world?

[If your only response is going to be to attack the messenger or the source, then don't bother.]

1/7/2020 7:12:44 AM

rwoody
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If you know the source will be attacked, find a better source?

1/7/2020 7:33:44 AM

Dentaldamn
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San Francisco was dirty and gross 30 years ago. Nothing has really changed other than more rich people showing up and complaining how dirty and gross it is.

1/7/2020 7:43:03 AM

utowncha
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personally i like the real-time poop report map

1/7/2020 7:49:18 AM

0EPII1
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^ it exists?

^^ is that really true? sure, there are dirty and downtrodden parts in any fancy city in the world, but 30 years ago was it as bad as what the video shows?

1/7/2020 8:06:45 AM

Dentaldamn
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it’s never been a “fancy city”. Have you ever been?

What information are you using to formulate your opinion here?

[Edited on January 7, 2020 at 8:22 AM. Reason : Never]

1/7/2020 8:22:14 AM

rwoody
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A white supremacists video mostly

Please do research for him

1/7/2020 8:27:22 AM

rjrumfel
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The video was likely made by folks who are trying to prove the idea that if you let leftists run a city long enough, this is what happens.

They do that with San Fran, the entire state of California, Seattle, Chicago, etc.

1/7/2020 8:44:49 AM

utowncha
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this particular user is preoccupied with poop.. in case anyone hasnt noticed

1/7/2020 8:44:59 AM

eyewall41
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Today's Dems are not really left at all in comparison to most of the world. They are center-right usually. Leftists are typically anti-capitalist (like me) and Pelosi herself said "we're capitalists". Her city of San Francisco became horrifically expensive due to the tech boom and gentrification which priced people right into the street.

1/7/2020 9:19:44 AM

NyM410
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OP is consistently one of the worst users on here. SF has a massive inequality problem but I’m guessing old Tuck isn’t too worried about that.

1/7/2020 10:25:36 AM

wdprice3
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cool. a tww thread from 30 years before tww began

1/7/2020 10:48:03 AM

horosho
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Despite having some white supremacist views (who doesn't?), Tucker is the straightest shooter on all of MSM. Don't let the network fool you. Tucker is definitely concerned with fixing up our own streets which is why he breaks with the fox line to oppose intervention abroad.

California has right wing democrats vs left wing democrats in most elections. Republicans don't even make it to the general. The right wing democrats are total frauds and continue to use corporate money and hollywood liberals to swindle themselves into power. Look at our representatives and you will see why our state is so dysfunctional and capitalist. People like Feinstein, Harris, Pelosi, Schiff, and Waters triumph over actual leftists time after time. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy.

1/7/2020 10:54:00 AM

daaave
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lmfao this guy

1/7/2020 11:19:40 AM

NyM410
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Tucker is a concern trolling fascist.

Of course you like him.

Quote :
"You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy."


You know, except anytime the House GOP has a presser or between 8-11 nightly on Fox News.

[Edited on January 7, 2020 at 11:21 AM. Reason : X]

1/7/2020 11:20:07 AM

horosho
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I want you to draw a distinction between people who represent and fight for values you oppose and people who pretend to represent values you support while actively undermining those same values. One is much more dishonorable than the other.

California would be much better off with libertarian market capitalists aligned with Tucker running the show than they would be with current democrats structuring everything so that the big guy dominates through unfair competition.

The housing crisis IS something being manufactured by democrats. There isn't enough supply and they inhibit supply by creating development laws that force sprawl and rising prices. This is because the people in charge all own real estate and want to make sure their assets appreciate as quickly as possible. The leftist option of flooding the market with government-funded housing projects would slow their appreciation and the right option of allowing the market to increase supply according to increased demand would also slow their appreciation. Their solution is to insert as many hurdles as possible against any new building and put regulations that make it nearly impossible to build.

They are literally perpetuating the housing crisis to fill their own pockets and the pockets of their donors so they can stay in power.

Also, in the era of climate change, we need smarter urban development. In a time where we need to be stacking people in urban areas, they are letting policy push people into further commutes while simultaneously failing to develop transit infrastructure.

We're talking about a group of people who have fought against every housing bill, green new deal, medicare for all, and are more concerned about the a phone call on the other side of the world than they are with the public health crises in their own cities. They have got to go.

1/7/2020 12:29:52 PM

rwoody
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Quote :
"California would be much better off for white people with libertarian market capitalists aligned with Tucker running the show "


Fify

1/7/2020 2:14:04 PM

LoneSnark
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^ As non-whites are more likely to be renters than property owners, and whites are more likely to be land-lords than non-whites, white people would on-net be harmed by libertarian market capitalists as rents fell and the vast sum of rents flowing from renters to politically connected land-lords fell.

An argument can be made that federal and state policies of regulating labor markets and provision of welfare help non-whites disproportionately, but there is no sense by which local real-estate regulation does anything but harm the poor and by extension many non-whites, full stop.

1/7/2020 5:08:49 PM

Bullet
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1/7/2020 5:26:01 PM

rwoody
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^^ya you def missed the pt of my post

1/7/2020 5:49:49 PM

horosho
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Then tell us your point because we don't know.

1/8/2020 10:39:33 PM

rwoody
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I think I'll let you figure out why your idea to have white nationalists run a govt might be a net positive only for the white people there

1/8/2020 11:11:31 PM

Dentaldamn
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The majority of rental properties in San Francisco are owned by institutional money and the peninsula a very small area. Poor renters aren’t winning in a “libertarian market capitalism” world bc the end result is them not living there.

Also what do you mean by “harm” in this sentence?

Quote :
"no sense by which local real-estate regulation does anything but harm the poor and by extension many non-whites, full stop."

1/9/2020 7:57:54 AM

LoneSnark
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^^ wat? Just because there are two groups of people and you dislike them both does not make them interchangeable. "libertarian market capitalists" and "white nationalists" are two groups that would not agree with each other on most policy issues.

^ The current policy regime is designed to make sure they can't live there now, so it can't really get much worse. When more people live somewhere than there is housing, rents rise until the poorest give up and either become homeless or move away, as current demographic data from the region suggests is occuring: the non-whites are being forced to leave by high rents.

However, the current housing shortage is caused by two things: the urban growth boundary and rampant NIMBY domination of the planning boards. The second makes it impossible to build near anyone and the first makes it impossible to build away from everyone. Neither of these policies would exist in a "libertarian market capitalist" world, therefore the housing shortage would not survive their rule. Absent the shortage, it doesn't matter how land-lord friendly the rules are, the market will set rents, not landlords. The existing land-lord stock would have no policy lever to stop each other from increasing the housing stock, because libertarian.

"Harm", as in, economically, as in, make them worse off than they would otherwise be. Current Rent controlled rents in San Francisco are higher than the prevailing rents in Houston, TX, which despite being extremely land-lord friendly, has neither zoning laws nor an urban growth boundary, and therefore low rents.

[Edited on January 9, 2020 at 10:48 AM. Reason : .,.]

1/9/2020 10:45:20 AM

rwoody
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I'm talking about tucker Carlson not LMC you dope

1/9/2020 10:51:22 AM

LoneSnark
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^ Why? I think we should be discussing the policy issues at hand, not some TV personality, but I guess that's me. Harder to virtue signal discussing actually important things.

1/10/2020 12:30:49 PM

rwoody
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Oh sorry I thought YOU responded to ME. My bad. Let's talk about what you want to talk about.

1/10/2020 4:51:49 PM

UJustWait84
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Quote :
"San Francisco was dirty and gross 30 years ago. Nothing has really changed other than more rich people showing up and complaining how dirty and gross it is."


Pretty much, if you're talking about Market St and the TL/Civic Center. I've seen it ebb and flow since I moved here, and while it's pretty gross anywhere near touristy/transit hubs, it's no different than parts of Seattle, Denver, Austin, Honolulu, New Orleans, etc.

What's REALLY bad is BART these days. Not only is it fucking gross, it feels really unsafe most of the time because of so many crazy people and next to no effective policing.

But I'm willing to bet half the people ragging on SF haven't spent much time in the parts of the city where most people live and go about their daily lives without clutching their pearls.

[Edited on January 13, 2020 at 8:09 PM. Reason : .]

1/13/2020 8:09:01 PM

horosho
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its not the police job to handle mental health crises. or shouldn't be. If you people actually cared about the problem you wouldn't elect a representative who wants to make sure they can't get mental healthcare. You elect some of the same people over and over again and get the same results. The way that posts frames the poor is exactly the way the wealthy elite liberals of california frame problems.

BART is UNSAFE and GROSS because CRAZIES aren't being POLICED

instead of wondering why people can't actual get the care they need to get off of the streets or why they are there in the first place. A bunch of damn conservatives who want womens rights and gay rights. That is all they are.

and who cares if theres places in the city where wealthy folks can isolate themselves away from societal failures and for the most part, pretend they don't exist

[Edited on January 14, 2020 at 2:34 AM. Reason : so what]

1/14/2020 2:32:08 AM

UJustWait84
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I said EFFECTIVE policing, you goddamn idiot.

Why hasn’t anyone banned you yet?

1/14/2020 6:23:33 AM

NyM410
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Quote :
"But I'm willing to bet half the people ragging on SF haven't spent much time in the parts of the city where most people live and go about their daily lives without clutching their pearls."


I mean probably not even that. All the stupid Fox News videos I’ve seen appear to be shot downtown on a weekend when no place is open with the host essentially yelling “SEE, NO ONE COMES OUT BECAUSE OF THIS HOMELESS GUY!!!!”

[Edited on January 14, 2020 at 8:01 AM. Reason : WHY ISNT THE SUBWAY ON CALIFORNIA OPEN SATURDAY AT 2! DAMN PELOSI.]

1/14/2020 8:00:21 AM

horosho
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Quote :
"I said EFFECTIVE policing, you goddamn idiot.

Why hasn’t anyone banned you yet?"

There is no fixing it. Police should have no role in mental health crises. You just want anything that makes you uncomfortable removed from sight. Just like my posts and just like the homeless. Limousine liberal.

[Edited on January 14, 2020 at 11:27 AM. Reason : yikes]

1/14/2020 11:26:12 AM

Bullet
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lol, earl thinks that mental health experts should be hired to roam around BART and treat homeless people with mental issues. (we should all know he probably doesn't really think that, he's just trolling for interaction)

1/14/2020 11:35:41 AM

daaave
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horosho is just repeating what any mental health organization would tell you. It's a giant mistake to put mental health crises in the hands of police. What you just said is literally what many cities are doing already.

https://www.denverpost.com/2019/10/11/denver-police-cahoots-mental-health/

[Edited on January 14, 2020 at 11:46 AM. Reason : .]

1/14/2020 11:44:53 AM

Bullet
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Good point, and I get that, but that's specifically referencing 911 calls for people with known mental issues.

1/14/2020 11:57:01 AM

LoneSnark
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Mental health issues are a tough call. Europe has no issue there, because they don't have the same level of protection for individual self determination. But here in America, just because we don't like your behavior, we can't make you stay in a hospital against your will unless you're actually a threat to yourself or others. And I agree with that sentiment. From my time helping the homeless, it was rare to find one that actually wanted that kind of help, and I suspect those that did only said they did in an effort to tug on heart strings. Most of them had been through the revolving door of several hospitals, had their bills covered by medicaid, got lots of prescriptions, and then sold what they could and refused to take any of it.

The American system is perfectly happy to help a mentally ill homeless person stay in a psych ward for whatever treatment the doctors can devise. The hospital will happily fill out the paperwork to get the person on Medicaid for them, which is happy to pay a lot of money to keep them in there. But, see, they have to want to be there. Usually they demand to walk out within a day, after a shower and a meal, and then do, because treating people against their will without a great reason is illegal.

As such, what do we have? The sidewalk is city property, they can set whatever rules they want. If you make life on the sidewalk hard enough, the homeless will retreat to the homeless shelters. Easy as that. And it is only the Police who are charged with making life difficult, which makes this a police matter.

1/14/2020 11:59:16 AM

horosho
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Your plan is logically sound but how is it working out in practice? The root causes of the problems need to be addressed before it gets to the point where it becomes a self-perpetuating cycle. You have to ask yourself, how did these people get to this point? How did societal conditions exacerbate or even amplify mental health conditions? What would your mental health state be like if you were homeless and slept on the loud cold streets for months at a time?

When I dislocate my shoulder, I don't particularly "want" you to pop it back in to place. The first action of treatment is often the most painful. Part of being so mentally ill is that they may be in a state of trauma or delusion and not all capable of figuring out what path of care is best for them. Its hard for the patient to know what kind of help they may need. Police "making life difficult" is certainly not going to improve that.

If we didn't abandon mental health all along the process, there wouldn't be so many people in this urgent stage of need. Routine mental health checkups should be a norm for everyone.

1/14/2020 1:27:35 PM

UJustWait84
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Quote :
"
There is no fixing it. Police should have no role in mental health crises. You just want anything that makes you uncomfortable removed from sight. Just like my posts and just like the homeless. Limousine liberal."


Are you even aware of how much violent crime has increased over the last few years on BART? People being stabbed/assaulted/murdered/robbed?

The reason everyone freaked out when that guy got arrested for eating a sandwich on a BART platform was because everyone knows that BART does jack shit to enforce its safety policies. They got caught several years ago for having fake surveillance cameras.

They’re actually doing something about it now by installing better fare evasion gates, and when they catch people without proof of payment, they’re not issuing citations/arrests- they’re walking these people to the exits.

Just shut up. You have no idea what you’re talking about

1/14/2020 2:30:28 PM

horosho
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Your last post has nothing to do with mental health which was the only thing I talked about in regards to policing. Your shift to talking about conventional crime indicates that you did not know what I was talking about but I clearly did.

The one thing I'll add in response to your last post is that "better fare evasion gates" is an improper response to fare evasion. Affordability and access is a problem with public transit and generally everything in the bay area. Fare-free transit is the humane solution.

All of the things I'm suggesting free up more LEA resources for handling violence.

1/14/2020 3:51:57 PM

utowncha
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just shoot them. im tired of going to conferences and everything smelling like ass.

1/14/2020 3:53:17 PM

NyM410
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Signed,

Every person at the JPM Healthcare Expo this week.

1/14/2020 4:01:48 PM

daaave
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I'd be careful talking about cops like that.

1/14/2020 4:15:04 PM

LoneSnark
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Quote :
"The root causes of the problems need to be addressed before it gets to the point where it becomes a self-perpetuating cycle. You have to ask yourself, how did these people get to this point? How did societal conditions exacerbate or even amplify mental health conditions? What would your mental health state be like if you were homeless and slept on the loud cold streets for months at a time?

When I dislocate my shoulder, I don't particularly "want" you to pop it back in to place. The first action of treatment is often the most painful. Part of being so mentally ill is that they may be in a state of trauma or delusion and not all capable of figuring out what path of care is best for them. Its hard for the patient to know what kind of help they may need. Police "making life difficult" is certainly not going to improve that."

You are exactly correct. That is the downside to the current system. We have people living homeless that if we only forced them to be better for long enough, would come around and stay that way. But we are here for a reason. The downside to the previous system was that we had people in hospitals against their will that treatment was in no way "fixing". We threw people in mental hospitals for being gay, not wanting to be mothers, polygamy, being hippies, being nomads, or merely wanting to live dramatically alternative lifestyles.

It used to be if any doctor decided that six months in a psych-ward would fix something about you, you stayed there. I don't trust a doctor with that power, even if they would be absolutely correct much of the time. As it is, if the individual in question gets far enough gone, the hospital that the cops drop them off at will treat them against their wills for awhile. But the most common story was just that the drugs made them function better, but they were miserable on them. Better to be homeless and still be able to experience life.

Which was a very real catch 22. Without the drugs, they're dysfunctional, entirely eligible for disability (Through SSI, even if they've never worked). But, on the drugs, they're perfectly functional, so they're expected to get a job and work for a living. So, even given the American welfare system would happily pay for them to have a home and get treatment, the system takes that away because we know for a fact they can work, if they'd just take their medication.

Even so, that is only a moderate percentage of the homeless. The majority are just drug users. And as uncomfortable as you thinking living on the street can be, heroin makes everything better. Money spent on anything else in their life is wasted, because it could have been spent on more heroin. They're not mentally ill, they just really really love heroin.

[Edited on January 14, 2020 at 9:00 PM. Reason : .,.]

1/14/2020 8:53:10 PM

 Message Boards » The Soap Box » Why has San Fran been allowed to become an... Page [1]  
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