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 Message Boards » » Panthers busts(FA, Trade, Draft) in history Page [1] 2, Next  
StTexan
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Other than rae carruth, who are some big busts the panthers have had?

Jason Peter?

Sean Gilbert?

Rashard Anderson?

[Edited on April 22, 2020 at 6:47 PM. Reason : ?]

4/22/2020 6:45:35 PM

laxman490
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Remember when I was a kid they drafted a RB with a crazy last name, from some Big10 school i think. I loved his name, but remember he sucked and was dropped rather quickly without making much of an impact.

4/22/2020 6:52:50 PM

Brass Monkey
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Tim Biakabutuka? Dude was awesome in that one game against Ohio State where he rushed for 313 yards, which is second in Michigan history. While he was with the Panthers for 6 seasons (1996-2001), he was often injured. He was drafted 8th overall in the 19996 draft.

4/22/2020 7:00:24 PM

StTexan
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^^But those 2 back to back games he had with 3 or 4 runs of like 60+ yards were cool.

[Edited on April 22, 2020 at 7:01 PM. Reason : ^yep ]

4/22/2020 7:00:30 PM

laxman490
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Yes! looking at wikipedia, he know owns 4 bojos in georgia

4/22/2020 7:10:32 PM

justinh524
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Biggest draft busts: Vernon Butler, Everette Brown, Jimmy Clausen, Dwayne Jarrett, Eric Shelton, Keary Colbert, Bruce Nelson, Rashard Anderson, Shawn King

Biggest FA busts: Sean Gilbert - only on here because of having to give up 2 first round picks to be able to sign him, because he wasn't terrible here just not worth the 2 picks lost. But George Seifert was terrible
Chuck Smith - another Seifert signing, made $21 million and played 2 games with 1 tackle. Bigger bust than Gilbert IMO

Biggest trade busts: Jeff Lewis

i wouldn't consider Tim Biakabutuka a bust. He struggled mightily with injuries but managed to stick around for 6 years and average over 4 yards per carry. Also in 1999 he became only the 3rd NFL player to ever have 2 60+ yard TD runs in one game! Compared to the guys I listed, that's a pro bowl caliber career. For comparison, Eric Shelton was a 2nd round pick and rushed for 23 career yards! I'd call Biakabutuka a disappointment but not a bust.

4/22/2020 7:28:35 PM

thegoodlife3
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Super Bowl Champion Jeff Lewis

(RIP Jeff Lewis)

4/22/2020 7:41:53 PM

justinh524
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opiods got him RIP

Still can't believe the panthers traded a 3rd and a 4th for him as he had been demoted to 3rd string (behind Bubby fucking Brister) at the time of the trade. I guess I see where Hurney learned how to be a GM since he was in the front office under Seifert.

4/22/2020 8:20:26 PM

rayef3rw
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1998 Mitch Marrow was a 3rd round DE pick. Ruptured his spinal disc in camp and never played an NFL snap.

3rd round is kinda getting a bit borderline for busts though to me. But if we're including 3rds I'm gonna hang my hat on hating the Will Grier pick. It's too early to say for sure but I am NOT a fan of his playing. Seems like a nice dude, he's a Charlotte native, but he just has no awareness in the pocket and scrambles way too much for being an unathletic runner.

I'm surprised no one's mentioned Jeff Otah yet. 1st round pick at tackle out of Pitt, played only 3 seasons, missing all of 2011 with a knee injury. He did start in all 29 games he played, but he wasn't fantastic.

2009 was a rough draft. Everette Brown, and Corvey Irvin in the 3rd. Irvin played 2 games for 4 combined tackles before we traded him to Jacksonville the next season.

2010 Armanti Edwards was a rough pick. Of course, being a QB in the Panthers 2011-2012 behind Cam meant you weren't gonna play, but in 2010, when we started Clausen (another bad pick, in the 2nd round of 2010), Matt Moore, and Brian St. Pierre.

Speaking of bad years... 2014, man. Kelvin Benjamin was definitely better than a lot of people listed here, but for a 1st round pick? Not so great. He also got himself a lot of hate from Panthers fans for the way he left the team. And who followed that? Koney Ealy. A very mediocre DE for a 2nd round pick.

Butler's already been mentioned by a lot of people, and once you get earlier than that, it gets a bit too recent to tell.

4/22/2020 11:23:01 PM

thegoodlife3
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Armanti Edwards wasn’t drafted to play QB

he was drafted to muff punts

4/22/2020 11:24:22 PM

justinh524
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Yeah I only mentioned 1st and 2nd round picks, I don't really think of 3rd+ picks as colossal busts like 1st/2nd round guys.

But hey at least with Ealy we got a tiny bit of return by trading him to NE along with a 3rd in return for a 2nd. Then the Patriots cut him before he ever played a snap.

And yeah, Edwards was a bad pick (a classic Hurney move) But he wasn't a bust. And like my esteemed colleague thegoodlife3 said, he wasn't drafted as a QB. He was drafted with the intention of moving him to WR.

To me with Otah its worse when you consider how much the Panthers game up to move up in the draft to get him. Everything was looking like he'd be a long term OL fixture until he got hurt. But he did have 2 solid seasons before the wheels fell off. That's why I left him off my list

4/22/2020 11:37:47 PM

thegoodlife3
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I really, really wanted them to take Ryan Clady that draft

4/23/2020 12:39:12 AM

rayef3rw
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Yeah, I have a tough time putting guys who got injured on the list. Unless they were known to have injury problems coming out of college (which, to be honest, I didn't used to keep up with the draft enough to remember who did/didn't) it doesn't seem fair to call them a bust for an injury that's out of their control.

And lol on Edwards. He coulda been Taysom before Taysom was Taysom if he panned out. Definitely tore things apart at App

4/23/2020 12:39:38 AM

TreeTwista10
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Scam

4/23/2020 6:57:34 AM

dmspack
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Dwayne Jarret was the first to come to my mind.

4/23/2020 7:52:47 AM

Dynasty2004
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Luke Kuechly for sure

4/23/2020 10:41:14 AM

HCH
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Quote :
" Kelvin Benjamin "
+1, dude was a lazy fat turd. Also, pickles.

4/25/2020 9:26:53 PM

justinh524
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I can't call a guy who had almost 2500 yards in 2.5 years a bust. Yeah he was frustrating and disappointing at times, but he's far from a bust.

4/25/2020 9:43:42 PM

thegoodlife3
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busts aren’t productive

he was productive

4/25/2020 9:57:15 PM

tower
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kelvin benjamin was one of the worst players in panthers history

total coincidence that we went to a super bowl the year he got hurt

4/26/2020 8:42:29 AM

TreeTwista10
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7th in franchise history in receiving yards = one of the worst players in franchise history

4/26/2020 11:49:09 AM

justinh524
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I mean Jake Delhomme has the 2nd most passing yards/TDs in franchise history and he's definitely one of the worst players in franchise history so maybe the guy has a point.

4/26/2020 11:59:05 AM

TreeTwista10
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y'all are dumb as hell

4/26/2020 12:00:50 PM

justinh524
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Can't let stats get in the way of my unwavering hatred of Delhomme

4/26/2020 12:08:34 PM

rayef3rw
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There only two reasons KB got nearly as many receiving yards as he did:
1) Cam and him had a connection for a while. Cam would constantly feed him the ball.
2) The Panthers had a historically bad WR corps during most of his time there.

2014 featured just KB, UDFA Philly Brown, Jerricho Cotchery, and perennial Jerry Richardson favorite Brenton Bersin; Bersin would've never (and has never) stuck to a team besides the Panthers, Cotchery was mostly solid but in his last two years in the NFL, and Brown was just ok. Benjamin's biggest competition in 2014 was Greg Olsen, the rest didn't come close to matching his numbers.

2015 was the last year of Cotchery. Still had Philly and Bersin, plus a brand-new Devin Funchess and Kevin Norwood, who played in one game without recording a single stat, and a returning Ted Ginn Jr., who is pretty decent. Of course, Benjamin didn't play at all this year cause he was hurt.

2016 we had KB, Bersin, Brown, Funchess, and Ginn. I've already been over all of them; not exactly a star-studded receiving corps. Ginn was streaky, Funchess was ok. Same story as 2014, where Greg Olsen led the team in receiving yards, with Ginn and Funchess trailing behind him.

In 2017 we had the worst group of all, with KB for part of the season, plus Bersin and Funchess, and then a group of players who are/were otherwise career special-teamers in Moze Frasier, Kaelin Clay, and Russel Shepard.

What I'm getting at is that Benjamin had 4 years to establish himself as the star WR in a group of historically underwhelming wide receivers. Who's the biggest star on that list aside from KB? Of course Ginn and Funchess, but every year no WR got more targets than Benjamin by 20 targets. His rookie year he competed with Cotchery for WR1, and don't get me wrong, I love Cotchery, but he wasn't the player he once was.

And it's not like we had bad offenses while he was here either. 2014 we scored 3 TDs per game, 2016 we scored 23 PPG, and 2017 we scored 22.5 PPG.

So sure, maybe he got a lot of yards and catches because he was the best of a bad group of WRs, but overall, he c(sh)ould've had way more yards than he did.

4/26/2020 5:37:21 PM

TreeTwista10
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I'm not trying to act like KB was some kind of star for us. But if he was "one of the worst players in franchise history" then what are guys like Keary Colbert and Dwayne Jarrett?

Same with Delhomme, though I know justin admits his bias. Benjamin and Delhomme aren't even close to the worst players at their respective positions in this franchise's history

[Edited on April 26, 2020 at 6:10 PM. Reason : .]

4/26/2020 6:09:12 PM

justinh524
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Well no, but theres a large gulf between Newton and everyone else. Delhomme was a pedestrian QB at best. Even in his best seasons, he barely cracked the top 50% of QBs in stats like completion %, yards and QB rating. Although he was routinely near the top in interception % (FYI that's bad.) I'd argue that Beuerlein was better. They're pretty similar, but Beuerlein's best season is waaaaaaaaaaay better than anything Delhomme ever did.

4/26/2020 6:14:42 PM

TreeTwista10
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who is better between Delhomme and Kyle Allen? come on, say it.

4/26/2020 6:19:10 PM

rayef3rw
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Not the worst player, just a bust. He wouldn't be in this conversation if he was drafted in, say, the 3rd/4th round

4/26/2020 6:20:25 PM

justinh524
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I hope all the panthers wr busts average 1000 yards a season

Benjamin had twice as many yards as Curtis Samuel in their first 3 years as panthers (Benjamin played 40 games for Carolina, Samuel has played 38.) DJ Moore has less receiving yards through 2 seasons than Benjamin did, clearly a bust.

Like I get that the guy was a fuck up who was basically too lazy to be a professional athlete, but he produced while he was a Panther.

4/26/2020 6:36:17 PM

thegoodlife3
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Quote :
" Even in his best seasons, he barely cracked the top 50% of QBs in stats like completion %, yards and QB rating."


how dare you discount him winning a NFL QB challenge

4/26/2020 7:24:48 PM

dmspack
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^^ yeah

4/26/2020 8:53:17 PM

tower
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Quote :
"I'm not trying to act like KB was some kind of star for us. But if he was "one of the worst players in franchise history" then what are guys like Keary Colbert and Dwayne Jarrett?"


guys who didnt make the offense they played in actively worse by being on the field

well, jarrett kind of did that. thankfully he was bad enough that he wasnt on the field much

4/27/2020 12:49:16 AM

Wolfey
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Honestly surprised that Matt Kalil is not being mentioned as a free agent bust.

I 2nd Jeff Otah 1st Rounder that never lived up to expectations.

4/28/2020 4:14:32 PM

justinh524
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Steve Smith - bust because he made teams worse by sucker punching teammates in the head.

4/28/2020 4:28:51 PM

steviewonder
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colbert wasn't a negative. he was a role player

4/28/2020 9:00:48 PM

hey now
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Bump

4/27/2023 4:13:55 PM

justinh524
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I stand by my previous list of draft busts as well as refusing to call kelvin Benjamin a bust.

4/27/2023 4:56:54 PM

dmspack
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Funchess

4/27/2023 5:29:55 PM

justinh524
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I also put him in the "disappointing but not a bust" category.

There were 8 WRs selected ahead of him in that draft. Only 2 of them had better careers with their drafting team(amari cooper and devante parker.) Nelson Agholor was a first round pick and a bigger disappointment for his drafting team than Funchess was for Carolina. There were 3 full fledged first round wr busts (Kevin White, Breshad Perriman and Phillip Dorsett) and the two 2nd round receivers taken ahead of him combined for 1200 yards in their entire careers combined (Funchess had 2233 in his 4 years in Carolina)

So yeah i don't think a guy who averaged over 500 yds and 5tds a year is really a bust as a 2nd round pick.

4/27/2023 5:33:00 PM

dmspack
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I’m willing to entertain that he wasn’t a bust and was merely just disappointing. But he was part of some pretty bad WR groups…somebody had to catch passes. Are his stats a reflection of how good he was or are they inflated due to volume?

4/27/2023 6:55:44 PM

justinh524
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I mean the one year he was the clear cut top WR on the team he career highs in Yards and TDs (as one would expect) but also had his best year with regards to catch%. So it wasn't just a matter of volume for him. He legitimately improved.

If anything, the lack of other decent options on the outside probably hindered him.

4/27/2023 7:55:22 PM

StTexan
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Bttt

12/11/2023 8:08:16 PM

dmspack
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(I know this bump is about Bryce but…what about Ickey? I’m not an expert on OL play but he’s been pretty underwhelming right?)

12/11/2023 8:43:33 PM

justinh524
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He was pretty good at the end of last year. Reich's scheme was a terrible fit for him. I'd hold off judgement of him and Bryce until they get into a system that actually fits. Which should have been the goddamn first requirement for any coach they hired last time, but what would i fuckin know.

12/11/2023 10:32:32 PM

dmspack
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Very fair!

12/12/2023 6:15:29 AM

StTexan
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Norman to washington ranked top 9 of 10 worst ever. Only panther listed

2/23/2024 11:38:19 PM

GenghisJohn
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The definition of bust in this thread is insane. A bust requires two components: spending a high value asset and getting markedly less production from that player compared to other players acquired for that asset.

Kelvin Benjamin a bust? Drafted at the end of the first round and had 16 tds in his first three seasons with one of those being an injury year. Cheap production and then we got rid of him before ever paying him. The #28 pick putting up legitimate offensive contributions in 2 of his first three years is a win, not a bust. Folks who think he is a bust are just upset because he didn’t pan out after looking good to start his career.

Honestly I would argue a late first round pick is impossible to be a bust. What is the success rate of players picked 20-32? Seems like teams picking there are good teams who are making picks based on projection and potential. Was Vernon Butler a bust? I don’t think so, he was a luxury pick when we had a pretty good defensive line already, and while he didn’t work out we never were counting on him to be a key contributor.

Jeff Otah a bust? Maybe because we traded to get back into the first to get him. But also, his rookie year he was a key part of Deangelo and JStew each getting 1000 yards. He was a great run blocking tackle that got fucked by injuries. Was he a bust? I don’t think so, we weren’t dying for offensive line help and counting on him to fix the unit.

The draft is a shitshow and I feel like we have a much better hit rate on first rounders than most teams. And after the first round, how can you really call any player a bust?

Bryce being the obvious elephant in the room, the only other player I’d mention is Jaycee Horn — who has played great but can’t seem to get healthy. IMO, outside of seeing how Bryce turns out, if Jaycee doesn’t end up playing most of next season and then being resigned, I’d say that pick is a bust.

2/25/2024 12:07:24 AM

TreeTwista10
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I think it's fine to call Vernon Butler a bust. You expect guys you draft in the 1st and 2nd round to be starters on your team for multiple seasons. Maybe not right away, but that's where you build your team, in those early rounds. Hitting on a late round pick is great, but you have to hit on the early picks. Luckily the Panthers have a pretty high success rate with 1st round picks. Butler seems even worse in hindsight when you could've had guys like Chris Jones, Derrick Henry, Michael Thomas, and Tyreek Hill. And I'm fulling admitting that hindsight is 20/20.

2/25/2024 1:29:55 AM

justinh524
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Quote :
"And after the first round, how can you really call any player a bust?"


It's quite easy actually. You should try it.

"Noted non-bust Jimmy Clausen" -GenghisJohn

2/25/2024 8:58:30 AM

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