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 Message Boards » » Cayman Engine Died on Track Page [1]  
TKE-Teg
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Yup, so this happened last weekend while attending an HPDE with NASA. During the 3rd session, right after I lifted for Turn 14 (final turn of the track) the engine shut of and CEL came on. I heard nothing beforehand through my helmet to give me any sort of warning. Nor did any warning/idiot lights pop up on the dashboard beforehand to warn me of impeding disaster. I was able to roll the car back to the paddock and during that time tried to restart the engine, to no avail. See below for the video. Of note, I think the engine starts to sound "different" around the 1:19, and more clearly at the 1:30 points in the video. Failure occurs roughly at 1:40.

https://youtu.be/CNF_qPnNCZ0

As stated above, I could not get the engine to restart while rolling back in the paddock. Additionally, since the engine shut off abruptly while on track, the coolant temps starting going sky high. Never fully in the red, but the needle stayed all the way at the top of the dial for a good while until the engine bay cooling fan could evacuate enough heat. In the meantime, while the engine cooled off I read the error code, P0301. This code states that a cylinder 1 misfire occurred. Okay I thought, not too bad. I hadn't heard any horrible sounds from the engine right before it shut off. There was no smoke from the exhaust. No fluids leaking from underneath the car. The digital display also indicated that I still had a full sump of oil. My initial thoughts were that one of my coil packs had failed. However my view of things got worse when I was able to restart the engine, which I was able to do about 30-45 minutes later. It took some coaxing, but when it finally started up it was not firing on all cylinders. And then after a few seconds the console display stated "Low Oil Pressure". Oh shit, that...that is very bad. I was able to get an on-site mechanic to come over and take a look at the car, mostly in hopes that he could manually verify what my oil pressure situation was. While waiting for him I removed the engine cover. When he arrived, we started up the car again and it sounded the same as before, bad and not running on all cylinders. Then after a few seconds a new metallic banging sound started (sounded like a socket attachment being shook inside a tin can). When that happened we immediately shut down the engine and he stated in his professional opinion that I had a serious internal engine problem (no kidding...). I had already assumed my weekend was over, and at this point I just packed it all up and planned to investigate things further myself at home.


Here's what I found when I drained the oil from the engine:


And here's what I found when I dropped the oil pan:



Car has 117,052 miles on it. I wasn't abusing the engine. Pretty pissed about this. Engine is obviously toast.

11/16/2020 9:58:38 AM

smoothcrim
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daaaamn. that sucks man. going to part it out and salvage it or try to rebuild it with a new motor?

watching your video, I had my bike transmission on my kawasaki die in the that same turn. threw me up in the air when it completely locked the rear wheel and I got run over too

cmp is cursed!

[Edited on November 16, 2020 at 2:42 PM. Reason : .]

11/16/2020 2:39:33 PM

tchenku
midshipman
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Holy shit, sorry to hear about this!

Let us know what blew apart.

11/16/2020 3:57:56 PM

TKE-Teg
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Probably going to sell it as is with it's aftermarket parts. If no interested parties over next few months then I'll probably remove all my suspension goodies (kept all worn stock items) and then try to sell those separately. Not in a big hurry, but I would like to buy another sports/track car within the next 12 months.

^^don't plan to rebuild the engine. Just a big hassle in which I'd probably lose more money. Also, wow about that turn at CMP.

^doubt I'll ever know because I'm not going to pay a shop to diagnose the root cause (do you guys think there's any point?). Pretty sure the failure occurred at cylinder #1 (might do a compression test out of curiosity) and I think it was possibly rod bolt failure.

11/17/2020 10:50:56 AM

tchenku
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I'm making a big assumption that with the oil pan already off, you're ~20 bolts away from pulling out all the rods and pistons and seeing what happened.

11/17/2020 2:21:13 PM

TKE-Teg
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Haha, nah. Not even remotely. Here are some pics from looking up.



11/17/2020 2:45:03 PM

0EPII1
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Sorry about your car my man.

Your new car has arrived

11/18/2020 9:23:01 AM

Jeepin4x4
A'hoy hoy
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Would you have rather this happened in the car you just drove across the country?

11/19/2020 10:49:33 AM

Ahmet
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That sucks, I've had it happen to a 911, it was not a fun time... Let me know if you need any pointers!

Also, great job handling the car back into the pits without a tow

11/19/2020 3:33:55 PM

Azaka
///Meh
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Damn, that's a bummer Ahmet, Jek, and I almost did that event, but were at VIR with Audi Club instead.

What are you going to ask for the car as is?

11/19/2020 4:14:36 PM

TKE-Teg
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4^ haha well maybe. But that's still a year away

^^^haha, nope. That would have really sucked, especially when I had no cell service in the middle of Montana on 2 lane roads

^^thanks Ahmet. I'm worried that the cylinder linings could be in bad shape (at least for #1). When your 996's engine failed do you know what the cause was?

^Right now thinking $14,000 including all aftermarket parts (installed on car), spare/used OEM parts I kept, and spare set of OEM wheels.

[Edited on November 23, 2020 at 10:10 AM. Reason : ]

11/23/2020 10:09:58 AM

Ahmet
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Mine needed rod bearings, cylinders were fine. I did main bearings and tensioner pads, some seals, etc. as well. I made all the tools myself out of hardware store stuff. My cost in parts (through the shop) was less than $200 for the whole rebuild. It did take me a while and was quite a learning experience. Of course it helped I was running a shop and had the space, lift, and experienced mechanics to bounce ideas off of. The most amusing tools I had to make was the wrist pin retainer clip installer, I used copper piping cut to fun shapes to hold said clips, a slightly larger diameter thin pipe, a broom stick, etc. fun times

11/28/2020 5:55:49 PM

Ahmet
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Feel free to text me if you need anything or want to talk through what you're thinking. Genuine offer.

11/28/2020 5:57:04 PM

TKE-Teg
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Thanks appreciate it.

I definitely remember your thread detailing all those weird tools you made, haha.

11/30/2020 8:56:26 AM

theDuke866
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Rank:

987.2
981
SS 1LE

12/6/2020 10:20:52 PM

TKE-Teg
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After talking over on Rennlist with a few guys, including the president of LN Engineering, it may be that my car was already suffering from bore scoring well before the failure at CMP. Ugh.

12/9/2020 12:01:38 PM

tchenku
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^^I just recently learned, after sitting through a bunch of Flat 6 Innovations teardown vids, that the 987.2 is just as susceptible to bore scoring as the 987.1. They're seeing it come up as the .2 comes of age.

Their magic solution to prevent it: oil changes every 5,000 miles or 6 months, whichever comes first.

12/9/2020 8:34:41 PM

TKE-Teg
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That's not encouraging to hear.

Also, I just got, yesterday, a rough quote from Flat 6 Innovations for a rebuilt Stage II engine. Mainly for academic/research purposes. It was fairly high, haha.

12/10/2020 3:19:55 PM

tchenku
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I'm guessing $20k

An interesting failure/wear they're seeing on the .2 is the "upper" half rod bearings (the half facing the combustion chamber). With the additional pressure from the direct injection, those bearings take a beating.

987.2 bore scoring:
https://youtu.be/p8eBm5XVPN4?t=794

987.2 (and apparently all DFI cars) rod bearings and bore scoring:
https://youtu.be/02HxKanh-JY?t=271


[Edited on December 10, 2020 at 5:19 PM. Reason : that wasn't sarcasm about the oil change.. the dude in these videos is adamant about it!]

12/10/2020 5:16:24 PM

TKE-Teg
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For sale ad over on Rennlist.

https://rennlist.com/forums/market/1231926

1/20/2021 10:02:02 AM

TKE-Teg
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Car has sold!

1/29/2021 4:37:57 PM

Ahmet
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Did you get what you were looking for out of it? If near $14k, that sounds quite solid.

What's next for you?

2/4/2021 1:13:09 PM

TKE-Teg
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Got $12,500 (including money made selling spare parts).

Not sure. Been brainstorming every day. Though in general want something relatively lightweight, RWD, manual and naturally aspirated.

2/4/2021 1:31:15 PM

smoothcrim
Universal Magnetic!
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the evora 400 (or gt) and gt350(r) were very special cars I drove that meet those requirements. finding much else was very difficult if you wanted anything made somewhat recently. I found both to be better cars in every way than my 996 gt3

[Edited on February 4, 2021 at 5:19 PM. Reason : I really liked the mustang, but the dealer experience was garbage and the lotus felt more "right"]

2/4/2021 5:08:39 PM

TKE-Teg
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yeah unfortunately they're both out of my price range.

2/4/2021 6:39:34 PM

tchenku
midshipman
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981 cayman

Actually I like the look of the 987.1 and .2 more than the 981, but I'd be hard-pressed to jump back into the same car just on principle, electronic steering be damned.

2/6/2021 4:02:56 PM

smoothcrim
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whats the range?

2/8/2021 3:26:34 PM

TKE-Teg
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$30k is ceiling.

I looked at P31 equipped C63 AMG in VA yesterday. 75k miles. 2012, black, longtube headers, reflashed ECU. Has had a bunch of maint already done. Drove really well but the surrounds (VA Beach) weren't ideal for really getting a great idea of the car (construction, narrow lanes, traffic, etc).

He won't budge below $30k and I'd be tempted to walk but P31s are really hard to find.

[Edited on February 9, 2021 at 9:00 AM. Reason : ]

2/9/2021 9:00:21 AM

smoothcrim
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that's not light or manual..
I'll tell you, at least on my wagon, the trans ruins the car. you can't force it to hold a gear and if you get close to redline, it holds the gear for about a second while it lets the revs go down before it lets you grab the next gear. I tried the newer unit (18-20) and while it shifts faster, instead of holding the gear it just auto shifts up, but it has so many gears you never really get to rev it out.

2/9/2021 9:41:42 AM

smoothcrim
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you could always get a base evora and add a blower later. I don't think there were any internal changes to accommodate
https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/inventorylisting/viewDetailsFilterViewInventoryListing.action?zip=27610&transmission=M&showNegotiable=true&sortDir=ASC&sourceContext=untrackedExternal_false_0&distance=50000&sortType=PRICE&entitySelectingHelper.selectedEntity=d2058#listing=292234782

2/9/2021 9:50:45 AM

TKE-Teg
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Haha, I know but it's my WILDCARD pick that I've always had a thing for.

2/10/2021 9:10:37 AM

TKE-Teg
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Quote :
"I'll tell you, at least on my wagon, the trans ruins the car. you can't force it to hold a gear and if you get close to redline, it holds the gear for about a second while it lets the revs go down before it lets you grab the next gear. I tried the newer unit (18-20) and while it shifts faster, instead of holding the gear it just auto shifts up, but it has so many gears you never really get to rev it out."


This 7G with multiclutch pack is a different unit than yours. In manual mode it will definitely let you bang into the rev limiter. Won't shift into another gear unless you do it yourself.

4/21/2021 10:47:46 AM

smoothcrim
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I have the 7g wet clutch setup. maybe I need your programming. I bet mine is a safe guard to the trans because it makes so much more torque. also, sounds like grats on the new whip?

4/21/2021 11:14:00 AM

TKE-Teg
All American
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Oh well damn, interesting.

I thought you had the 9G.

Thanks! I need to post details oops.

[Edited on April 21, 2021 at 3:28 PM. Reason : ]

4/21/2021 3:27:31 PM

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