TO ALL ALUMNI AND ADMINISTRATION

submitted by Satch on Wednesday, February 28 2001 at 11:13 AM

Citing the forum "essay" in todays technician, I am motivated to stand up for those who were lambasted. I first off would like to emphasize that THE WOLFWEB is a student created website run by a group of individuals who deemed it better that we have a forum to vent our frustrations and concerns. I have been an advocate for students the whole two years I have been a student here at North Carolina State University and this is the only forum where our concerns are addressed. The technician is merely a "percieved" extension of the administration as well as the student government. I thank the writer of the forum letter today for giving me a prime example of what is important to this school. We are subject to sub par educations while professors work on individual things. We the tuition paying fans are increasingly disrespected to suit money toting alumni. You praise the chancellor, who is she? The big problem at this school is that we have become disconnected with the decision making bodies here. Let her and any others come to the brickyard for a day, speak to us. Eat at the dining hall and see how damn nasty it is. Sit in the student section at a game and watch the alumni/season ticketers stay seated and leave early. Let them come to our classes where professors disregard our intellectual maturation. Let them come to the wolf web where we find our only acknowledgement of concerns. Sports, as students we hold the right to challenge any coach, or anyone no matter the circumstance. I hope you are ready for the day when we students decide to intelligently, and responsibly organize to change this campus. We created this website for us, and if you cant handle it. Go buy your red polo shirts and sweater vests for the game this weekend. I'll be at Kmart getting my face paint.....quit your belly aching....

posted by EVroccck on Wednesday, February 28 2001 at 11:16 AM

Those people have a damn nerve, to think that b/c they are older then us students that they know whats best, and to have the facist idea that students such as myself with "3000 plus posts" should be blantly and openly blasted for having a voice. Just b/c im not going to stand around and let someone older, who thinks they know more about what is goign on, tell me how i need to feel. This is a UNIVERSITY OF THE STUDENTS and without the students there would be no UNIVERSITY. The alumni and administration has forgotten this and become disconnected with the REAL UNIVERSITY THE STUDENTS!!

2/28/2001 11:29:57 AM

yeah, dude, go wear a sweater or something.

the_drew

2/28/2001 11:40:03 AM

how did so many alumni get like this guy??? my dad graduated from NC State in 1972 and ever since he has supported the school and it's students... it seems that too many of the alums graduate and forget what NC State really is.. they suddenly think it is jsut the place thye got their degree from which has sports teams that they watch for a while... my dad is one of the biggest "recruiters" for any college i have ever seen.. he knows about the place and promotes it to try to get the best and brightest students from my county here... and he does a damn good job of it... what ever happened to the real alumni?????

2/28/2001 11:47:54 AM

they're extinct.

the_drew

2/28/2001 11:48:49 AM

does anyone have the link to the "essay" in the Technician?

2/28/2001 11:51:49 AM

http://www.thewolfweb.com/message.asp?topic=5283
His article overflows with misleading and inaccurate information. This guy has never posted on here, and noone has seen him on ACC Boards either. His alleged screenname "58 Wolf Kennel" is not valid. Anyone that has actually used message boards should no that we can't have spaces in the names.

2/28/2001 11:52:34 AM

I agree. Over the years I believe that this institution of higher learning has become more economically oriented rather than student oriented. I agree with Ev when he states that without students, there is no university. While I believe that some professors and staff of NCSU respect the students, most however, do not. What these people fail to realize/remember is that years ago they were in the similar position that we are in today. Once, they too were college students, struggling day to day with classes, grades, extracurricular interests, and socialization. However, students today are dealing with many more pressures and difficulties from day to day that the average college student in maybe 1958 would have never dreamed of. Most of us have divorced parents. Many come from abusive homes. The lists of problems that we specifically have to deal with goes on and on. Suicide among college students is a major concern in 2001 b/c of all these major concerns, and it certainly doesn't help matters when you're told by some supposed supreme alumni authority that you're subordinate to them. PUH-LEASE...

I was raised to be an independant thinker. To me, that means being an active participant in any group that I am apart of and being VOCAL if I have a problem or concern with a particular issue as it pertains to me. What about that is disrespectfu?! Granted, some people in this world are disrespectful, but you can't judge all college students b/c of a minority few....

In concluding, this website has something that the 1958 Alumni certainly fails to understand. Whether he realizes it or not, we've got something he can't grasp.. a sense of community. We have a place where we can freely express our ideas and discuss them with one another ina safe environment where people LISTEN and don't tell you that you're being ridiculous just b/c your opinion isn't theirs.

Isn't that what free speech is all about?

2/28/2001 11:56:22 AM

Yeah. It is supposedly "disrespectful" to criticize or disagree with someone in higher position. Can we say "oligarchy"? I will continue to debate and disagree with people from the jobless to the President. I try to judge people based on their opinions and actions, not the sort of position they are in. Perhaps you should change your outmoded way of thinking and poor sense of what is "disrespectful". Once you become enlightened perhaps you can carry on an intelligent discussion with those younger than you, Mr. Robert Kennel.

2/28/2001 12:05:42 PM

SHUT UP. EAT A TWINKIE. PACIFY YOURSELF EVERYBODY

2/28/2001 12:12:34 PM

I'm finally given the proof of the pudding of my argument against alumni, finally.

If there was any doubt in your mind that they have forgotten what it was like to be a student, then this should remove any uncertainty. While I conceed that I have figuratively "called for Herb's head on a platter" I don't conceed that I do not have the right to say it. As of right now, I am sitting in a lab. Look around me, I see see brand new computers, nice graphical signs (that I made, shameless plug), and ... alas! Students working! Although I'm sure that there are some hefty alumni dollars sunk into these facilities, I'm positive that my technology fees and other tuition related monies contribute to this lab. Such is the case all over campus, even in facilities I don't use. But most importantly, is not my monetary investment in the university, but my personal investment of heart in the university. I live, and breathe NCSU everyday. I struggle when my professors give me short deadlines, or insane amounts of reading. I struggle when I see professors who are fustrated with teaching, and would much rather be doing something else. I struggle when the national representation of our school (read: our basketball team) cannot find a groove in the ACC. Why do I call for Herb's termination? Because I'm sick of struggling. I can't make my deadlines or assignments disappear, but damnit I'll bitch and moan about them up until I have to sit down and work on them. I probably can't make Herb disappear, but damnit, I'll bitch and moan about his various perceived faults in coaching up until he's gone. While I don't agree at all with attacking Herb's character or his family (I happen to think of Herb as a good, well respected man), I think that it should be a not so healthy indication of the fustration of NCSU fans everywhere.

Succinctly: I'll critisize Herb because its my right.

2/28/2001 12:23:17 PM

someone got a link to the article?

2/28/2001 12:24:49 PM

According to a current Assistant Professor here at State, the length of his employment has very little to do with his perfomance in the classroom. 95% of his job security is based on what he publishes. He said that if, after his Assistant Professorship is up, he hasnt published much it would not matter if 300 students lined up outside the dean's office to commend his teaching. He would lose his job! I offer that as just a little something to think about.

2/28/2001 12:43:34 PM

It might piss some of you off that he mentioned the wolf web and the 3000 post thing but other then the fact that the first half of his article was boring and pointless the rest of it wasn't bad. Herb is a good coach and the team is heading in the right direction. Assuming we keep all the players we have and keep the recruiting class we should be doing pretty damn good in the next few years. Herb can't go out there and shoot the ball for Wilkins so I'm not gonna tell him he's doing bad as a coach. To rag on him for one frustrating year in by far the most talented conference in the nation is just pointless and leads to the fair weather fan syndrome. I saw an example of this a few weeks back at the Duke-State game in Cameron. The guy sitting behind me said "You know I graduated from state a while back but ever since the early 90's when Duke beat Carolina three times in a row, I've been a life-long fan" If your team doesn't do good one season, don't try to find something to blame it on, just keep cheering for them and try to find some way to make the team better instead of just taking it out on the coach. I don't think I've heard a single reason why Herb should be let go other then our record. Give some examples of how he is letting down our team as a coach and then suggest letting him go. Until then keep whatever blame you find necessary to give out on the ones that are missing the shots.

2/28/2001 1:06:27 PM

how is herb a good coach when we have 2 mcdonalds all americans on the court....... 3 next year..... he doesnt lack in recruiting... he lacks in putting an offense together with a couple of the most sought after high schoolers in the country!!

2/28/2001 1:23:48 PM

how is herb a good coach when we have 2 mcdonalds all americans on the court....... 3 next year..... he doesnt lack in recruiting... he lacks in putting an offense together with a couple of the most sought after high schoolers in the country!!

2/28/2001 1:23:48 PM

The technician is merely a "percieved" extension of the administration as well as the student government.

Could you clarify this statement please EVRock and/or Decker?

[Edited by marko on 2/28/2001 at 1:28:08 PM. Reason: misfigured post]

[Edited by marko on 2/28/2001 at 1:29:21 PM. Reason: who posted/wrote?]

2/28/2001 1:26:54 PM

matt, proof you say? i have struggled some time as to whether a true PTP (sorry to quote Dickie V) is born, if that is something intrinsic to him, or is it something that can be coached and practiced. By this I mean even simple stuff as making the off balance shot in traffic around the hoop (hell Damien can't even make a routine layup sometimes). And its funny how all of Duke can shoot the three with a fair amount of consistency, where all we have is Miller. These things can be coached. There is no reason we shouldnt be decent shooters? There is no reason we shouldnt be efficient around the basket. Herb isn't instilling a championship attitude in the players. If he were doing that, I wouldn't be seeing Sherrill, Guidry, Williams, Melvin, Kelley, and Keeter at Jillian until 2am in the morning. If they wanted to be winners, if they wanted to be champions, they would be in the gym until 2AM practicing threes etc. I'm not making any comments about Herb's offense because I'm not qualified to analyze that, I'm just commenting on the lack of emotion I see coming from him and the players (kinda reminds you of MOC).

2/28/2001 1:59:31 PM

Two points regarding that article. A: the university system is indeed not what it was in 1958. In 1958 NC STate was not (as my soc professor puts it) a "Diploma Mill" as it was today. Students were not encouraged to get through college as quickly with as few classes as necessary. The classes were smaller and more attention was alloted to the individual student than is possible when you have a chemistry 201 class designed for 250, a class which is higher level and should by all rights pay much more attention to the individual, and I don't mean SI, because that isn't available to students with more intensive schedules and less time.
The second point is that Herb Sendek is a good coach, at least he would have been in the older, more genteel ACC that existed from it's inception up until Duke won it's championships. Our players used to get blasted in tournaments because we played a softer style and they played rougher. The current ACC plays that rougher style and while our players know that, Herb does not. Look at UVA's couch, look at UNC's, they're all over the game, they cheer their team, they feel for the school and they empathize with the fans, Herb does neither anymore and therefore he is ineffective to the student body, and with the students unsupportive the team won't survive. When has Herb addressed the students since starting? When has he shown real emotion out on the court. The closest thing he ever does to listening to fans is when he puts in Keeter in the last 30 seconds after students have been chanting for 5 minutes (sad thing is Keeter is the most underestimated member of that team by Sendek, and he is only put in when Sendek feels he can't do anymore).
Oh, as one more note. I've posted here like 5 times maybe, and even I don't like his riding on the student population for speaking it's mind. Students shouldn't have had to create a place to speak what they are thinking, it should have been provided by and monitered the University in the first place, then they'd finally know what's really going on around here.

timswar

[Edited by timswar on 2/28/2001 at 2:04:16 PM. Reason: grammer]

2/28/2001 2:01:46 PM

The first thing that came to my mind was that this guy and alumni like him is the reason that we have "Make a Donation" prominently placed on our "new and improved" webpage. I do have to disagree with one thing though; the Technician is not in the pocket of the administration. Need evidence? Look at the editorial today that blasts (and rightfully so) the new webpage. I'd actually commend them for printing this piece of crap letter, because it shows that they let anyone and everyone have a voice to be heard. Sounds kind of like a certain web site that I'm currently posting this message to.

As much as we can bitch all we want about this guy's letter, it's still (unfortunate as it may be) his prerogative to write what he wants. If we're gonna ask for our voice to be heard, we can't do it at the expense of others. Do I agree with this guy? Hell no. But he does have a right to voice his opinion, the same way we all have the right to voice ours.

2/28/2001 2:16:30 PM

Quote:

"The technician is merely a "percieved" extension of the administration as well as the student government."

I will try to clarify this in my point of view. The TEchnician is supposed to be the students paper, a way for us to express our opinions and issues around NCSU. When in actuallity all that we read is administrative BS and if be some chance we do voice our opinion which differs from the admin's view it is deemed unneccessary and out of hand.

The admin is soo used to them being able to do whatever they want that when the get some organized students to stand up to them, they dont know how to react, so they act with agression instead of with rational ways.

That is why the majority of the Student Body agrees that the ADMIN has lost touch with the most important part of NC STATE....The Students!

2/28/2001 2:16:57 PM

There is no doubt the Tech. has been getting better but that is mainly b/c they got railed by the students last semester and previous ones for putting up crap, so they started trying to get writers from our side such as SATCH.

This guy has every right to his opinion as does everyone else, but i beleive he is out of touch with NC State. Besides having said to have been in Cali for the last 40 years, he hasn't been an NCSU student in even longer. Things have changed not only on campus but with our society. People like myself and other young adults are not going to sit around and take abuse/orders/or condenscending remarks from someon who is a older then me just b/c he is older then me. It doesnt mean his is right.

2/28/2001 2:21:44 PM

When I heard about this latest controversy, it infuriated me. College students nationwide have every right to criticize their university administration and affiliated personnel. I am not a student at NC State, but rather I am a student at the State University of New York at Oswego (northwest of Syracuse along the shores of Lake Ontario for those who don't know). Similar situations where alumni have publicly criticized the students has occurred here, but if college administration is not doing the job we expect them to do, they ought to have what is dealt with them. One thing that Deborah Stanley, the president of Oswego State University, has done recently was to have open office hours on selected days and times where she can openly discuss issues that concern students. She has also visited dining halls during dinner hours to sit down and talk to students about their concerns in relation to the college. Otherwise, there hasn't been much done to lessen the bureaucracy here at Oswego State. And for not meeting the student's needs as a whole, the students should criticize the administration and professors. After all, wherever we attend college, we do pay money to get educated and grow as individuals. Sports-wise, we are a D-III college where coaches and teams do not get the press that a D-I college would get. When your biggest traditions are throwing bagels at the Plattsburgh State ice hockey team and hitting all bars on the main street and getting a beer at each bar (there's something like 20 bars - Oswego did once hold the record for having the most bars per capita in a city and the dormitories on campus once did have bars that served alcohol when the drinking age in New York was 18) going towards campus (the infamous Bridge Street Run), your main concerns are with the college itself and what the college has done for you. Perhaps this alum in question has forgotten about what being a student is really about.

2/28/2001 2:35:33 PM

MARKO,


Its why half the student population reads the technician. They "THINK" that it is an extension of the administration. It isnt anything personal. It is perception....It is what people tell me and why i started writing forum letters last year. no offense intended, but thats the way it is...

2/28/2001 2:36:55 PM

right on ev. UNIVERSITY OF THE STUDENTS. That is what is supposed to make NORTH CAROLINA STATE UNIVERSITY the great institution it is. That is why so many people from this state chose NCSU over schools like unc. The day where this university becomes completely obsessed with money and not students and their well-being is the day we turn into unc. We are not there yet, but we seem to be drawing closer and closer to that.

2/28/2001 2:55:42 PM

I'm pretty sure it doesn't take a genius to read a week and a half of the paper and figure out that we are not an extension of the administration.

For example if we were a tool of the administration, we probably would have said that the new NCSU website was the greatest thing since sliced bread...not at all what we ran today...

...and the student government connection? SMA is an extension of Student Government because it concerns student fees, but believe me President Harold Pettigrew does not come over and assign stories...

People that believe otherwise spend too much time listening to uniformed rumoured rampages caused by seeking out the wrong informants.

Excellent work on this post Decker, though 75% percent of these people will have flip-flopped their views (on many aspects of the university) by the time they are 30.

2/28/2001 2:59:48 PM

I have to agree with Marko on this one. I think some of our writers do a pretty good job of railing the administration and coaches, in fact at times I feel they are a little out of line with some of the things they do. For example last Friday they gave Tynesha Lewis the thumbs up for a triple-double and in the same paragraph made some type of slanderous comment about Grundy, Thornton, and Lyons. Hell it was practically a personal attack, which I think is going to far.

2/28/2001 3:14:01 PM

There are obviously writers that suck up to the administration (most of the paper last semester), but there are others that stick up for students (like Deck).

2/28/2001 3:24:59 PM

all your diploma are belong to the administration

2/28/2001 4:19:24 PM

Man this is what I love about the Wolf Web. The students have an opinion and we will voice it. Maybe, this is not a forum connected to the university that will have an affect in the way most think will change the way things should be. But we are definitly attracting viewers whether they post or not and getting our voice and our opinons out to a greater audience.

I had mixed feelings when reading the article, parts of it it I did not agree with but I thought there were some good points brought out.

1.) Probably the primary arguement in this topic and long going rage the students vs. alumni. As a student I find it important if not necessary for the students to have direct voice on what goes on with this institution. Yes when I become a future alumus I too want to have some imput on what goes on if I can help furture students better their experience here at NCSU. Though with the rapidly changing times I can't say that I will share the same experiences of future students 10 years younger than me. What is going on right now in 2001 might now be happening in 2011. I might have an opinion and suggestions then to express and I may express them if I can see it can do any good but I pray I don't have to attack the students to get my point accross. Though maybe I am trying to hard to look ahead to the future.

2.) Our struggling basketball team. I think many of you have seen my comments about the situation so just to summarize what I think, picture the 1999-2000 Cincinnati Bearcats, they were the number one team the country and had the number one player in the nation for college men's basketball. But an injury to him knocked him and the rest of the team back on their backs. Without all the key peices to the puzzle they were not able to play the best of thier potential since certain people held certain roles. Now I am not trying to say we have a star player on our team that outshines the rest or am I trying to compare state to Cincinatti. The point is the whole season we have not been playing with all the peices to the puzzle. Damon Thorton was knocked earlier this season. Then Archie had to sit out for nine games forces some other players to step up in some positions they might have not been ready for at the time. Then a key distraction knocked Grundy off his game at the time of the first party of our big rivalry game. Lately Wilkin's expressesed comments from his family as well as other sources not only distracted him but the rest of team. It wasn't until the FSU game that we have been playing with the full pieces of the puzzle. And as early mentioned above we have been playing in the top conference in the country and have only had the worst losses suffered to the hands of some of the top five since the CoSida Classic. Take this in as you want it.

3.) Bad Publicity. Now I don't think we have been negativly critized as badly as we have been in the past few decades. And it is not all about our basketball team either Koren Robinson and Corey Lyons help to prove this point being apart of the football team. And do I have to be constantly reminded about us "quibbling over ESA" or mis used funds for the Bell Tower lighting system as I read the paper. I was angered the weekend of the late Dale Earnhardt's timly death I heard more about Corey Lyons arrest and reminded about Grundy and Thorton's actions AGAIN during commercial breaks that Sunday than about the crash. Though what really got me was that two days afterward the story of the two Carolina football players, invovled in similar actions if not worse than Lyons, is quietly swept past as many didn't even know about happening.

I just had to put my 2 cents worth to this article to add what I felt about it. And I encourage others that are reading to do the same as the rest of us above have. I am proud to be a NCSU student. Adminstration, alumni, other students etc can't take that away from me. I try not to attack everyone and forgive me if I have. But for those of you reading out there, to those that think we need to stop crying about every little thing I say to you whether my words make a difference or not I use these word to express my opinion and I will use my voice to help carry my message and I will encourage my fellow WW's to do the same thing.

2/28/2001 4:37:12 PM

Quote:

"You don't have to be intelligent to achieve a degree of higher learning, only persistent"

--Dr. Roy Simerly

The education "system" is a joke. It's about image and money. Those of you who know me know my beef with NCSU's administration.

2/28/2001 8:00:40 PM

Is there somewhere I could view this article?

2/28/2001 8:01:17 PM

The TOL will have it i think. The past is the past let us look to the future. You can not progress by looking backwards. The administration does need to get back in touch with students in many ways. Several things need an upgrade. Someone whom has graduated doesnt know jack about college life currently.

-13

2/28/2001 8:06:36 PM

Was that addressed to me? I've only been out of school for 7 months, and I just turned 20.

2/28/2001 10:38:35 PM

I am so tired of people (fans?) telling me that state will get better. Five years is to long, accepting that we are a football school and not a basketball school is like saying we are the red but not the white. FIRE THE COACH!!!!!!!!

2/28/2001 11:51:12 PM

he's just an angry alumni who didnt get to take more of our student tix away to give to him and his friends.
rw

2/28/2001 11:51:19 PM

When we were young...


[Edited by marko on 3/1/2001 at 12:07:59 AM. Reason: clueless]

3/1/2001 12:00:28 AM

we have been young for 5 years now, when well we grow up

3/1/2001 12:04:17 AM

I have talked tp people who graduated in 1938 and the only thing I have figured out was that YOU (in reference to the people who refuse to identify with the alumni) are the exact same person that graduated in 1940..the only difference is that you live now and not then...

though perhaps those who live now crave instant gratification a hell of a lot more than those in the past...


[Edited by marko on 3/1/2001 at 12:09:08 AM. Reason: nothing ever changes]

[Edited by marko on 3/1/2001 at 11:27:11 AM. Reason: not directed]

3/1/2001 12:08:16 AM

I don't know exactly what you mean, but I graduated in 2000 and I do know one thing, I am tired of sucking at basketball, I mean 10 years, no other ACC fan would find that acceptable

3/1/2001 12:12:33 AM

I dont know how people can say herb is a good coach. Our best players leave every year and dont be suprised if we lose more than one good player this year to another school. Herb is a good recruiter? Who couldn't recruit with the facilities we have for basketball now? Look at the poor football facilities right now. Our football coaches you could say are good recruiters for the amount of talent brought in lately. For five years now i dont understand how people are content with an NIT invitation. This year we most likely wont even make that sorry excuse for a tournament. HERB MUST GO!! without a doubt.

3/1/2001 7:47:14 PM

well for response on how herb is a good recruiter, when herb was under rick pitino he was voted as one of the nations top recruiters under sports illustrated top recruiters in college basketball which is part of the reason state probably got him as a coach after Les.

3/3/2001 1:40:12 AM

Our best players leave every year? Keath Bean? Ron Anderson? Adam Harrington? Rouldra Thomas? Marshall Williams?
The only one of those that was worth a damn was Marshall Williams. Keath Bean played no defense and was lazy running the court. He also was scared to take his big ass inside on offense. Ron Anderson couldn't dribble or shoot. He could just dunk. Adam Harrington couldn't play defense. He only could shoot once every five games. Plus he was terrible for team chemistry. And if you say look at what he's doing at Auburn this year, look at the team's record and his shooting percentage. I am certainly not arguing that Sendek is a good coach, but our best players are staying put so far.

3/3/2001 8:46:58 AM

Yeah, most definitely. We have only lost one good player, and you will get that at many schools.

3/3/2001 12:52:55 PM

well since we only have good players that wont get us anywhere. we need sombody to be great before our program will change.

3/4/2001 5:37:35 AM

Not only do the alumni get the good seats at a football game, but we all remember the campout debacle of last year in which the campus adminstration neglected to tell us about the cut in tickets for basketball games. This is getting shameful. We as ncsu students need to put the power back in our hands.

4/1/2001 9:30:27 PM