men do the same jockeying for position amongst themselves, but it's not done by everyone. how many men or women will actually dedicate hours of their week to working out and making good food choices to look a certain way?

now, how many men and women would opt to get a one-time non-surgical treatment in thailand to become thinner and more toned for life?

5/30/2007 12:33:30 PM

I think you're simplifying this whole "gene doping" concept. You can't just go injecting genes into someone's bloodstream and change his or her DNA. You can, however, supplement someone's DNA with extra genes to make up for a hormone deficiency, or something else.

The concept isn't too far-fetched, but it's not the end-all cure of obesity that you think it might be. It's pretty far out there on the horizon, and the potential health risks are numerous. Ultimately, if gene doping is ever applied as a cosmetic fix, it'll be looked at in the same light as steroids and other hormone-altering practices.

5/30/2007 12:49:40 PM

I think you're overcomplicating gene-doping. It is a reality that has already been seen at the 2006 olympic winter games in the form of repoxygen, and it IS as simple as a single injection of a virus that modifies DNA so that various hormones are regulated inside the body.

5/30/2007 1:33:47 PM

If I hadn't experienced the awesome feeling I get from working out and being healthy i'd probably pt for the gene doping. Now that I know I may look good but feel awful inside, i'll stick to the hard work with maybe some virus on the side.

I'm pretty much against putting things into my body that are harmful. No smoking, not even weed, no drugs, only poison I use is alcohol occasionally. Actively putting a virus into my body sounds absurd, there have to be negative side effects whether short or long term.

5/30/2007 1:48:35 PM

vaccinations are just an injection of a virus to make us less susceptible to other viral infections. the concept isn't as far-stretched as people make it out to be.

5/30/2007 2:02:40 PM

There'd have to be several years of studies done before I signed up. It just seems we're getting one step closer to the "perfect race" when we start altering DNA..

5/30/2007 2:16:23 PM

this may have been pointed out, but I think that anybody, fat or not, who maintains this diet for a while

Quote :

"a liquid formula providing 600 calories a day"

will be in starvation mode

5/30/2007 3:13:47 PM

The reason that these people had a starvation response is that they were starving. The average person needs 2000-2500 calories a day. A 600 calorie a day diet, in liquid form no less, will cause the body to lower its Basic Metabolic Rate (BMR). The body will actually burn fewer calories, anticipating future need. This continues after the diet is ceased causing the person to quickly gain wieght, mostly in fat form. Not to mention that much of the weight loss in starvation diets is muscle mass and water weight.

To effectively lose wieght one must raise their BMR through regular exercise (at least 30 minutes daily) and eating a healthy diet with a reduced but appropriate amount of calories. There are 3500 calories in one pound. Therefore a person must burn 3500 more calories than they intake inorder to lose a pound. The body will resist this chage, wanting to maintain the norm, but once the BMR is raised it will begin to lose weight.

BMR is really the key. It is why the prisoners in the study had difficulty gaining weight and then quickly lost it. Exercise is the key to increasing BMR. People who have lost a significant portion of their body weight (10%+) and maintained the weight loss for 5 years burn 400 extra calories a day. This is the equivilant of walking for one hour or running for 20-30 minutes a day. There are other effective forms of aerobic exercise such as biking, swimming, ect. that are equally as effective. Increasing lean muscle mass will also help improve one's BMR.

5/31/2007 3:34:17 AM

^I would argue the validity of "The average person needs 2000-2500 calories a day."

The average physically active person does. The average person only need 1500-1800, if not slightly less, when taking into consideration how sedentary the average person is.

I eat 1250-1500 calories a day during off weeks and it keeps my weight stable and I am plenty full.

5/31/2007 4:13:56 PM

yeah 2000-2500 a day is a bit much. I wasnt even taking that many in when i ran every day

5/31/2007 4:15:24 PM

^^ I agree with you that sedentary people do need fewer calories, but 1250-1500 calories a day is diet level intake for most people. Yeah, most people would need closer to 2000 than 2500, that's why the range is there. I would also argue that the average person is not as sedentary as you think. Being physically active does not necessarily mean exercise. There are just as many people who work jobs that require a good deal of physical labor and need a great deal of calories, as there are people who sit at a desk all day. So when you find the mean average of all of these people, that is where the range comes from.

Also, daily caloric intake should provide all the nutrients the body needs to maintain overall health. If calories are reduced much lower than 1800 to 2000, a person might not be getting everything they need based on the fact that they are probably not eating enough food to contain all the nutrients.

[Edited on May 31, 2007 at 7:57 PM. Reason : Trust me on this, I have degrees in Physiology and Exercise Physiology.]

5/31/2007 7:49:35 PM

thats what multivatamins(sp?) are for...

5/31/2007 8:31:35 PM

Quote :

"Also, daily caloric intake should provide all the nutrients the body needs to maintain overall health. If calories are reduced much lower than 1800 to 2000, a person might not be getting everything they need based on the fact that they are probably not eating enough food to contain all the nutrients. "

be careful saying that around here. While it is true, most people on this forum will condemn you as a heretic for saying this.

5/31/2007 9:28:32 PM

We're not all weight-lifters.

5/31/2007 9:33:52 PM

you're not all calorie counters either. most people grossly misunderestimate their daily caloric intake.

5/31/2007 9:35:15 PM

^ holy crap thats right...

I started counting calories just out of curiousity since I started participating in this thread... cuz hell I get 2900 according to the fitness magazine thingy... so I wondered how much off it all was...

Soda's and Beer's and snacking are freaking killers for me... b/c I get ~1500-2k calories on basic food... but then add in all the crap that I normally eat and it rockets.

5/31/2007 9:44:45 PM

go figure

5/31/2007 10:06:19 PM

Holy mother of God Chipotle burrito's...

The Food and Nutrition Board recommended a sodium intake of < 2,400 mg/day for adults. Although the exact minimum requirements of sodium are not known the table below provides a list of the estimated minimum requirements for sodium:


Amount Per Serving

Calories 1285 Calories from Fat 506
Total Fat 57g
Saturated Fat 20g
Cholesterol 136mg
Sodium 4786mg
Total Carbohydrate 135g
Dietary Fiber 7g
Sugars 12g
Protein 57g

Vitamin A 128%
Vitamin C 140%
Calcium 55%
Iron 32%

5/31/2007 10:27:03 PM

That is by far one of the shittiest things you can put into your body.

Why for the love of...fuck it. Your body. Enjoy the short-term benefits and reap the long-term consequences.

5/31/2007 10:30:17 PM

Multi-vitamins good for supplementing a healthy diet or compensating for a specific deficiency. But to be honest, you actually piss out most of the multi-vitamin content. This due to the fact that it is water soluble and most people don't have defficiencies of all of the vitamins a multi-vitamin contains. A propper diet is the best source of vitamines, minerals, amino acids, ect.

And yes, it is true that many people eat well over 2000 calories a day and have nutrient deficiencies. In fact it is common-place with people who constantly eat junk food.

5/31/2007 11:21:06 PM

Quote :

"I agree with you that sedentary people do need fewer calories, but 1250-1500 calories a day is diet level intake for most people. Yeah, most people would need closer to 2000 than 2500, that's why the range is there. I would also argue that the average person is not as sedentary as you think. Being physically active does not necessarily mean exercise. There are just as many people who work jobs that require a good deal of physical labor and need a great deal of calories, as there are people who sit at a desk all day. So when you find the mean average of all of these people, that is where the range comes from. "

I definitely agree that anything under 1500 calories is pushing it. But, at least in the south, I definitely don't agree with your sedentary assessment. While there may be as many white collar as blue collar jobs, the level of activity in working physically demanding job requires a lot more FLUID intake, not drastically more caloric intake.

I work 8-10 hour days and do a LOT of heavy lifting, manual labor and construction. If I ate 2500 calories a day (and not a shit diet either) I will balloon quickly. And people who work manual labor (in my experience anyway) are much less likely to be eating the right kind of calories, much less the right amount or in the right intervals.

Quote :

"Reason : Trust me on this, I have degrees in Physiology and Exercise Physiology"

I'm not arguing with your expertise, just your experience. Having worked in several different construction industries, the guys who are visually obese far outnumber the proportionally healthy ones (not including the hispanic workers). Now the hispanic guys are like 95% "in shape", but apparently thats a combination of mal-nutrition and penny pinching

6/1/2007 8:36:55 PM

construction workers aren't obese because of a lack of physical activity; they're obese cause they tend to take in 1500+ calories every time they eat some disgusting excuse for a meal and then top it all off with the massive amounts of alcohol and sugary sodas they drink. Very few of them actually perform any volountary exercise at a gym either, since they assume that working outside is exercise enough.

Almost every overweight construction worker I've ever dealt with took pride in the massive amounts of food they could consume in one sitting. Places like hardees and golden corral even target construction workers heavily in their advertising schemes by trying to glamorize the massive amounts of food you get when you eat at their restaurants.

6/1/2007 9:10:59 PM

Quote :

"Now the hispanic guys are like 95% "in shape", but apparently thats a combination of mal-nutrition and penny pinching "

That's an extremely judgemental comment that seems to go against everything I've witnessed from working around construction people. I have a hispanic coworker that works with me outside occasionally, and he's in good shape for his age. He also happens to be one of only two coworkers I have that will go to the gym with me when working out of town. He's not thin because of malnutrition and penny pinching either, because he eats very clean and our company pays for our meals.

At the gym I used to go to, the only construction workers that went on a regular basis were hispanic. They also seemed to have a lot better understanding of nutrition than the vast majority of people who went to that gym. Maybe there were some American construction workers that went early in the morning that I never saw, but I wouldn't bet on it.

6/1/2007 9:22:41 PM

^^perhaps you missed that part of my post, so let me reiterate:

Quote :

"And people who work manual labor (in my experience anyway) are much less likely to be eating the right kind of calories, much less the right amount or in the right intervals."

And for ^, it's not to sound judgemental, but being that I work mostly around small residential construction, I see all the most shady fucking people ever. Commercial construction is an entirely different game.

We were templating a house on Wednesday, and the paint crew was there (three hispanic guys) who were spraying the trim without even a mask, much less gloves, respirators or long sleeves.

When I worked in landscaping, all the hispanic guys (actually, almost all the guys I ever worked with in general) kept in REALLY good shape, we all ate well and a lot of us worked out together.

6/2/2007 12:54:25 AM

http://www.fitday.com/

6/2/2007 12:54:47 AM