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rwoody
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Weird, seems like we could have just held onto that for 2021 instead of taking a project

5/7/2020 5:39:04 PM

justinh524
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Wait, so are we supposed to not recruit guys good enough to go pro or not recruit guys who won't be freshman all-conference? I'm so confused.

This guy has multiple high major offers. I don't think it's a bad thing to add him this late. We're already going to have 3+ spots to fill next year. This isn't just scrambling to fill a spot, he's a quality recruit.

5/7/2020 6:28:44 PM

rwoody
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Wait who said the first part? Did I?

This guy is a 3* going to the worst team in the acc, unranked on rivals and 330 on 247, which is the worst recruit Keatts has taken and the worst going to at least 2012. Now, Beverly and Lennard Freeman are our other sub300 recruits in that time (and dowuona), so he could be serviceable. But yea, seems like we just took anyone available rather than trying to be picky.

[Edited on May 7, 2020 at 7:33 PM. Reason : E]

[Edited on May 7, 2020 at 7:34 PM. Reason : Multiple high major offers is A&M, wake and....Rutgers in guess? ]

5/7/2020 7:32:07 PM

justinh524
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A&M, Wake, Rutgers, Iowa, Cincinnati. Louisville, Miami and Syracuse were also in on him after he decommitted. Also apparently he grew like 4 inches as a junior so he's definitely a late bloomer and that definitely affected his recruiting rankings. I don't think he's really a reach. I don't feel any worse taking this guy compare to say Jadun Michael.

Holding a scholarship open is the dumbest thing to do in college sports, especially since the advent of grad transfers. Yeah you shouldn't throw scholarships to guess who clearly aren't good enough to play because then you're stuck until they transfer. But I don't think that's the case here.

5/7/2020 8:03:02 PM

rwoody
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Looks like we have our new argument topic for the next 1-4 years!!

5/7/2020 8:06:50 PM

justinh524
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Well I mean it's not like there's going to be any sports in the future, so yes.

5/7/2020 8:23:53 PM

tower
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Quote :
"A&M, Wake, Rutgers, Iowa, Cincinnati. Louisville, Miami and Syracuse were also in on him after he decommitted."


Kentucky is on Shaun Kirk!!

Look, you can take a flier on a guy or two every now and then. Especially if you have a scholarship open up late and are scrambling. But when half your roster is fliers, you're Clemson

[Edited on May 7, 2020 at 10:21 PM. Reason : if keatts really liked this kid why didnt he go after him the first time?]

5/7/2020 9:52:14 PM

justinh524
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He did recruit him the first time, he just didn't have an offer, because we had a full class already

5/7/2020 10:37:12 PM

LudaChris
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Quote :
"This guy is a 3* going to the worst team in the acc"


To be fair, if Danny Manning had one redeeming quality, it was that he could identify underrated talented big men to develop.

John Collins - 3* - 0.8766 composite
Olivier Sarr - 3* - 0.8752 composite
Jaylon Gibson - 3* - 8702 composite

Just have to hope he was right on this guy as well.

5/8/2020 7:45:02 AM

Bullet
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You can't teach 6' 11"! (or however that goes)

5/8/2020 9:01:04 AM

tower
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Quote :
"He did recruit him the first time, he just didn't have an offer, because we had a full class already"


It would irresponsible if we didnt kick the tires on every in-state kid that will play D1 ball, but "not having an offer" is a choice. We chose to offer Nick Farrar and Ebenezer Duowona. We chose not to offer those twins from Southwest Guilford that ended up at UNCG last year. We chose to bring in Al Freeman and Sam Hunt as grad transfers to make the NCAA tournament in 2018 instead of loading up on more freshmen ranked in the 100-200 range, and as a result John Newman is at Clemson.

In 2020 we're choosing to load up on guys ranked 300+. It's a bold strategy, Cotton

5/8/2020 9:56:29 AM

Bullet
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Thanks for your insight tower, it's always appreciated.

5/8/2020 10:07:53 AM

V0LC0M
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Why is everyone calling this kid a project? He moves really well and just needs to gain weight and some control over his body. Doesn't appear to take a lot of jumpers from what I've seen so maybe that is a weakness. Regardless, we can do much worse. I like this pickup.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IY10dA3Ye58

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSEeoSaOg7g

5/8/2020 2:00:28 PM

Bullet
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^they're just looking at the stars, and the fact there weren't several top10 programs after him.

a 6'11" guy doesn't need to take a lot of jumpers to be a good college player.

[Edited on May 8, 2020 at 2:21 PM. Reason : -]

5/8/2020 2:12:49 PM

V0LC0M
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Everything I've read and seen says he was a late bloomer. Wasn't really on the map until about 8 months ago for a lot of recruiters.

Shawn Kirk and Darius Hicks were projects and they look NOTHING like this kid in terms of skill.

Hellems, Seabron, Beverly, and Taylor were 3 stars.

[Edited on May 8, 2020 at 2:23 PM. Reason : .]

5/8/2020 2:18:35 PM

tower
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lmao do you remember anything about shaun kirks recruitment

he was a nobody who was going to do a 5th year of HS, then played 2 weeks of AAU ball with dennis smith and suddenly he was a LATE BLOOMING ATHLETE because he could jump and dunk the ball with nobody within 10 feet of him (which hot damn, look at what this guy is doing in those highlight videos) and OH MY GOD JOHN CALAPARI WANTS HIM HE'S a 6'8 SF OH MYT GOD

[Edited on May 8, 2020 at 2:38 PM. Reason : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E694gV79J7w why does nobody like this pick up? ]

5/8/2020 2:35:20 PM

tower
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me last year: this aj taylor guy is never going to play for us
the shills: YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT HIM

[Edited on May 8, 2020 at 2:41 PM. Reason : think he was called anfernee or some shit back then honestly cant remember and dont care]

5/8/2020 2:40:35 PM

justinh524
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*2 weeks of AAU ball with Dennis Smith and Bam Adebayo. Let's be real, Gottfried recruited Kirk to try and get Adebayo. I just hope he didn't pay money to land Kirk.

Also, Hunt and Freeman were brought in for Keatts's first season, used to fill in some of the gaping holes left on the roster by the previous coach. It made much more sense to bring them in as a stop gap than to try and make up ground recruiting high schoolers that late in the game. Completely different situation.

5/8/2020 3:06:16 PM

Bullet
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lol "here's an anecdote about one basketball player. Don't you know this guy is going to be just like that guy? They both only have 3 *s!!!!"

5/8/2020 3:10:32 PM

tower
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i dont know jack shit about this guy, same as you

what I do know is every time we bring in a jaqawn raymond or shaun kirk or javi gonzalez they generally end up being the guy theyre expected to be instead of the hidden diamond john collins that happens 1 out of every 10 tries

the one time we came close to hitting on one of those guys was with josh davis, except we blew our shot by taking him out of HS so when he transferred after developing he picked San Diego State isntead of us

5/8/2020 6:16:28 PM

LudaChris
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But this isn't a late-blooming guy no one knew about that we just took to fill a scholarship.

This is a guy our staff liked but we had players we liked more committed. When a spot came open(Hall) and we had the spot to take a chance on a guy Keatts thinks has upside, think it was an easy decision. The kid was getting looked at by a lot of P5 schools after he decommitted from Wake.

I get the kids ranking. He was apparently 6'5" as a SO, shot up to 6'11" as a SR, but was reportedly playing his SR year at about 190-195lbs. Seems like a guy that is still growing into his body and needs a RS year and college S&C program to really help him grow into his body.

Last update I read was that he was up to 210 already, so we just need him to continue to put on good weight and settle somewhere in the 235-250 range and he could be an impact player in a few years.

Hell even Jordan Vandenberg developed into a serviceable player by his SR year, we're going to need size like this when dealing with FSU's squad of giants.

5/11/2020 9:16:56 AM

justinh524
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Quote :
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Hell even Jordan Vandenberg developed into a serviceable player by his SR year"


No, he really didn't

5/11/2020 9:21:06 AM

HCH
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"college S&C program"


Get Thunder in the phone.

5/11/2020 9:50:54 AM

Jrb599
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Quote :
"what I do know is every time we bring in a jaqawn raymond or shaun kirk or javi gonzalez they generally end up being the guy theyre expected to be instead of the hidden diamond john collins that happens 1 out of every 10 tries"


Sounds like we only have about 5 more players to go before we get the next John Collins.

5/11/2020 10:36:33 AM

LudaChris
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"No, he really didn't"


Dude averaged 22 minutes a game as a SR yeah and averaged 5 and 5. He wasn't an All-ACC player by any means but he was a serviceable big, just sucked he admitted to not taking his game seriously until his JR year and finally got in good shape for 1 season.

From what I've read about Keatts and his practices, don't think a guy being out of shape is going to be a problem, just have to hope he can put on good weight and develop as a player after switching from guard to center.

5/11/2020 1:43:15 PM

rwoody
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Who else was gonna play? Freeman, anya and kw were all freshmen

A dude that is 7"1' getting 5 rebounds is hardly "serviceable"

[Edited on May 11, 2020 at 2:04 PM. Reason : Also lol if he is a positive comparison for this new recruit]

5/11/2020 2:04:13 PM

LudaChris
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^Was saying even a player like Vandy, who was much worse than Gibson with less upside, could turn into a decent rotation piece. Vandy's problem was work ethic and he eventually figured it out, but even if Gibson has a shitty work ethic, I imagine Keatts is going to hold him much more accountable than Gott held any of his players.

Every commit doesn't have to be an immediate impact guy, wouldn't be surprised if we have 2 or 3 guys in this class redshirt.

5/12/2020 8:48:35 AM

justinh524
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But he wasn't a decent rotation piece. He was bad. His problem was he was bad at basketball. Probably would have been a good volleyball player though, considering the way he rebounded by hitting the ball rather than catch it.

5/12/2020 9:05:31 AM

Bullet
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In case yall didn't know, Justin does NOT think Vandenburg was serviceable.

5/12/2020 9:26:10 AM

synapse
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He's not wrong.

5/12/2020 9:33:52 AM

Bullet
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I didn't say he was. I'm just making sure everyone is aware of his opinion.

5/12/2020 10:26:06 AM

justinh524
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Thank you bullet

5/12/2020 10:29:42 AM

GenghisJohn
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agree vandenberg was trash, he had a few good games during his senior non conf sched that made everyone think he finally turned the corner

he did not

5/12/2020 12:39:52 PM

tower
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Vandenberg was fine his senior year but when he signed he was coming to a bottom barrel ACC team and left with us as a bubble team

We're currently a bubble team and shouldnt be signing guys who can maybe contribute to bubble teams in 5 years until we already have a very solid top 8 and are just looking for guys who are ok with sitting on the bench (and even then I'm not sure how well that strategy works - Andrew Platek didnt stop UNC from sucking ass last year)

5/12/2020 8:14:12 PM

justinh524
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Vandenberg averaged 2.9 points/4.5 rebounds/0.9 blocks in conference games as a senior while starting every game and averaging 20 minutes a game. Those numbers are very bad for a 7 foot center. He was held scoreless in 5 conference games and without a defensive rebound in 5 conference games. Again. Real bad.

I realize as NC State fans we don't get to see much great basketball, but TBDV was the exact opposite of great. He wasn't good, or even serviceable and it had very little to do with his beer belly.

5/12/2020 10:26:17 PM

TreeTwista10
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Senior TBDV was great compared to Freshman TBDV

Also, I don't think anyone actually thought he was a really good player, did they? More like just cheering when the big white guy makes a few good plays and loving his epic nickname, TBDV?

5/12/2020 11:06:07 PM

Kickstand
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I'd take TBDV over Wyatt Walker, if we're comparing centers.

5/12/2020 11:41:47 PM

justinh524
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They were both equally shitty, but at least Walker only used a scholarship for 1 year instead of fucking 5.

5/13/2020 2:10:06 PM

tower
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Unlike many of our recent centers, senior TBDV actually understood the art of altering shots rather than blocking them. He also didnt block them out of bounds at every opportunity. Now would it have been nice if he could actually rebound instead of slapping the ball? Yeah

He wasnt great or even all that good, but he was a decent contributor on an ACC team. The problem was the other 4 years

[Edited on May 13, 2020 at 8:42 PM. Reason : also the best thing he did was only take shots he could make]

5/13/2020 8:42:20 PM

justinh524
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Oh yeah those less than 1 block per conference game were just artful.

You can't spin this into him being a respectable player. He was trash and easily the worst guy who used up all his eligibility at State that I can remember. He took up a scholarship for 5 years and contributed almost nothing. He was so shitty he helps the NCAA's case for not paying players, because no one should be forced to pay for that little bit of return.

5/13/2020 9:13:15 PM

TreeTwista10
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5/13/2020 10:05:44 PM

tower
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Quote :
"You can't spin this into him being a respectable player. He was trash and easily the worst guy who used up all his eligibility at State that I can remember. "




this was far worse considering he played a ton every year

5/14/2020 4:35:14 PM

justinh524
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Fuck, you got me. Javi was garbage. He would singlehandedly let the other team get big leads by refusing to actually guard his man and then would furiously hit 3's so the final result looked respectable and people would think he was good.

We had a lot of really bad basketball players over the Sid/Gott years.

5/14/2020 4:55:21 PM

thegoodlife3
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https://thewolfweb.com/message_topic.aspx?topic=590384&page=10

all this Vandy talk reminded me of this discussion from 6+ years ago

5/14/2020 5:48:47 PM

wolfpack2105
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2014 and justin was using "bruh"....shoulda known back then he was a cunt.

vandy was a useful rotation player his final year. basically averaged 5 and 5 with 1.5 blocks in just over 20mpg. nothing more, nothing less

5/15/2020 11:39:32 AM

justinh524
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Except it was a lot less against decent competition, as noted by his conference only stats.

5/15/2020 12:34:03 PM

dmspack
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Quote :
" Weird, seems like we could have just held onto that for 2021 instead of taking a project"


We’ve had injuries and perpetual foul trouble for our big men. So having more depth in the front court isn’t a bad thing. Although I agree with your premise (I say that knowing nothing about this particular recruit), maybe this is just a little insurance for the front court.

5/16/2020 8:37:28 AM

rayef3rw
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Jaylon Gibson signed LOI for the Pack.

5/17/2020 3:09:59 PM

Bullet
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https://247sports.com/college/north-carolina-state/Article/Terquavion-Smith-NC-State-Basketball-Recruiting-Myrtle-Beach-Wolfpack-2021-149103884/

Quote :
"MYRTLE BEACH, S.C. -- Going into Sunday's slate of games in the Big Shots Myrtle Beach Tournament, Terquavion Smith had put together one of the best all-around performances of any player in attendance. That wasn't good enough for Smith, though, as he went out with a huge statement on Sunday -- a 30-point performance in an 87-84 win.

Playing all weekend for Tea Marie Hoops -- which went 7-0 in its Big Shots Myrtle Beach debut -- Smith came in averaging more than 17 points and already had 21 3-pointers over a three-day span. In the closest game of the weekend for Tea Marie, Smith torched Flight 22 Elite UA Rise with a tournament-high eight triples to finish with 29 -- another tournament-high mark.

In the second session alone, Smith averaged 22 points per game with 15 triples, which topped his total of 16.8 points and 14 threes in the four-game session on Thursday and Friday.

When Smith committed to NC State over one year ago on Feb. 18, 2019, he was considered a completely under-the-radar prospect. Despite having all of the physical tools, Smith was considered raw and was unranked by every recruiting site.

Now Smith is just a hair outside the Top 100 at No. 107 in the country by 247Sports and ranks as the No. 23 shooting guard in the country. After a four-day stretch that saw him average 19.2 points per game and prove that he can be a lights-out shooter from deep, there's a very good chance he could see some upward movement when the next batch of 2021 rankings are released.

Another player who helped his stock tremendously over the weekend was Smith's Tea Marie Hoops teammate De'Ante Green. The 6-foot-9, 205-pound forward dominated in the post for Tea Marie throughout the four-day tournament, finishing with 50 points in three games during Session 2 after posting 81 in four games during Session 1 for an average of 18.7 per game.

The Arden (N.C.) Christ School standout is one of the Pack's top targets in the 2022 class and has a shot to be the top-ranked player in the state in next year's cycle."

7/13/2020 1:43:48 PM

packboozie
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^I'll admit when Keatts signed him, it looked like a bad move, but he keeps moving up the rankings.

7/13/2020 5:39:04 PM

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