Quote :

"If a black guy kills another black guy, no big deal, happens all the time, that nigga was probably doing something stupid. White guy kills a black guy and "OMG HE IS A RACIST WHO MURDERED THAT POOR BLACK MAN FOR NO REASON!!!! OMGGGGG""

Have you even read about this story? If a black guy kills another black guy he is immediately arrested, charged and thrown in jail until he can post bail/a trial.

The ONLY reason this got as much publicity is because of the perception that the Sanford police basically said "fuck it" and let the guy go.

Now, seemingly unlike you, I could not care less if Zimmerman is guilty or innocent. From the beginning, because of the ambiguity and the collective evidence/conflicting witness accounts, all I wanted was for him to stand trial. That will happen now.

4/11/2012 7:49:14 PM

Yes, I've read about it, researched it, and have been talking about it for weeks.

You have basically been absent until today.

Quote :

"he ONLY reason this got as much publicity is because of the perception that the Sanford police basically said "fuck it" and let the guy go."

No, its because the media originally portrayed it as an innocent little angel black kid gets gunned down by a white guy.

And black people kill black people all the time in the hood and get away with it because these same black people won't even cooperate with the police out of fear of being labeled a snitch, or retaliation from the killers.

[Edited on April 11, 2012 at 7:53 PM. Reason : ,]

[Edited on April 11, 2012 at 7:57 PM. Reason : ,]

4/11/2012 7:52:40 PM

Quote :

"Nope, your founding fathers lol."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0tzZ__Z5Qw

4/11/2012 7:55:13 PM

Quote :

"I'm glad white people don't rally and throw hissy fits every time something bad happens to one of us. I honestly can't imagine going through life blaming all the bad things that happen to me and my shortcomings on racism because of the color of my skin. Sometimes shit happens, and sometimes shit doesn't go your way. Deal with it like everyone else and stop crying."

Wow, you have opened my eyes.

I finally now realize that you are correct. White people are superior to black people.

And I never knew that if i perceive an injustice against me, such as my child's murder going uncharged, I should keep my mouth shut. Is this the secret to being a good white person?

Thanks tacolu!!

[Edited on April 11, 2012 at 8:04 PM. Reason : ]

4/11/2012 8:00:54 PM

Why Don't Black People Protest 'Black-on-Black Violence'?
http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2012/04/why-dont-black-people-protest-black-on-black-violence/255329/

4/11/2012 8:03:44 PM

RIP Trayvon....

4/11/2012 8:12:53 PM

Looks like that shirt says "GAY."

4/11/2012 8:13:54 PM

OMGYOUHOMOPHOBE!

4/11/2012 8:14:50 PM

lol...
http://cutebabypictures.org/d/948-1/cute+black+baby+with+big+eyes.jpg

4/11/2012 8:15:07 PM

4/11/2012 8:15:35 PM

Quote :

"Looks like that shirt says "GAY.""

Hahahaha

4/11/2012 8:18:07 PM

Hey EMCE .....Fixed it for ya....

[Edited on April 11, 2012 at 8:21 PM. Reason : .]

4/11/2012 8:20:23 PM

no you didn't. you fucked up.

4/11/2012 8:21:52 PM

The 2nd degree murder charge is curious though.

If he doesn't plea down and it goes to trial, assuming it went down anywhere close to how Zimmerman was saying, it'd be easier for him to get off completely on a charge of 2nd degree, than if he was charged with manslaughter to begin with.

I wouldn't imagine the prosecutor would make this choice lightly, but I wonder what else they may have found out...?

4/11/2012 8:23:03 PM

They'll charge 2nd Degree, and give manslaughter as an option. So the jury feels like they're giving Zimmerman a break by convicting him of manslaughter only.

But I agree, I see this more as a manslaughter, than a 2nd Degree situation.

[Edited on April 11, 2012 at 8:25 PM. Reason : This is my cynical opinion, and you all know how I feel about prosecutors.]

4/11/2012 8:24:41 PM

Nope, he got out of the car with the INTENT to use deadly force if necessary. 2nd degree all the way.

4/11/2012 8:27:42 PM

^^ ahh, i wasn't sure if that was possible.

That strikes me as a little weird though...

Could they go 1st degree murder and have 2nd and manslaughter as options?

4/11/2012 8:30:07 PM

Nah, it wasn't pre-meditated as in, he was not just going to flat out kill the first suspicious person that he saw, but he would if he needed to. He intended to use deadly force if necessary, which is clear.

[Edited on April 11, 2012 at 8:32 PM. Reason : /]

4/11/2012 8:31:51 PM

If the intent starts at the moment he got out of the car, then it's 1st. That makes it premeditated (if you have the chance to walk away).

Manslaughter is the killing of a human being without lawful justification.

Second degree under Florida law requires a "depraved mind"

Quote :

""The unlawful killing of a human being, when perpetrated by any act imminently dangerous to another and evincing a depraved mind regardless of human life, although without any premeditated design to effect the death of any particular individual, is murder in the second degree and constitutes a felony of the first degree, punishable by imprisonment for a term of years not exceeding life...""

And I'm just not sure it reaches to that extent. It might, having not seen the evidence. But what I know so far leads me to think it's voluntary manslaughter.

Quote :

"Could they go 1st degree murder and have 2nd and manslaughter as options?"

Yes, if you remember the Casey Anthony case, 1st, 2nd, manslaughter, and negligent child abuse were all given as options for convictions. It's usually cathartic for jurors who don't have enough evidence to convict, but think the person should be punished, to give a lesser conviction.

[Edited on April 11, 2012 at 8:33 PM. Reason : ]

4/11/2012 8:31:59 PM

^^^obviously not 1st degree.

[Edited on April 11, 2012 at 8:34 PM. Reason : .]

[Edited on April 11, 2012 at 8:36 PM. Reason : .]

4/11/2012 8:33:38 PM

I was answering a question to the poster above me, thank you very much.

4/11/2012 8:34:55 PM

Quote :

"Yes, if you remember the Casey Anthony case"

I don't follow cases where the police actually arrest someone and they're charged for a crime

Quote :

"Nah, it wasn't pre-meditated as in, he was not just going to flat out kill the first suspicious person that he saw, but he would if he needed to. He intended to use deadly force if necessary, which is clear."

I was only asking hypothetically, i didn't mean for that to apply to this case... this is obviously not 1st degree, based on what is publicly known, IMO.

[Edited on April 11, 2012 at 8:37 PM. Reason : ]

4/11/2012 8:36:30 PM

Oh, OK.

4/11/2012 8:39:08 PM

Yeah, I figured you were asking hypothetically. It also used to be a rule that you were required to give lesser charges as an option during the deliberation process. It is no longer a requirement, but many judges will do it anyways.

4/11/2012 8:39:31 PM

there is no first degree murder charge because there was no grand jury:

http://www.13wmaz.com/news/article/177305/28/No-Grand-Jury-in-Trayvon-Martin-Case

4/11/2012 8:40:08 PM

You're joking, right!?

4/11/2012 8:40:48 PM

^^Sort of. There was no grand jury because it's not first degree.

The discussion we were having on 1st was all hypothetical, and not related to the facts of this case, by the way, for any of you who weren't following.

[Edited on April 11, 2012 at 8:41 PM. Reason : ]

4/11/2012 8:41:30 PM

4/11/2012 8:42:11 PM

Quote :

"All she needs in order to indict is probable cause that a crime has been committed. A jury that ultimately decides whether the defendant is guilty needs much more: proof beyond a reasonable doubt. But what if a prosecutor concludes that there is both probable cause and a reasonable doubt? That is the nightmare scenario that this prosecutor may well face. In ordinary circumstances, most prosecutors would not bring such a case, because it would be a waste of resources to indict someone who will probably be acquitted. But this is anything but a run-of-the-mill case. Moreover, the Florida statute provides an additional layer of protection to a defendant claiming self-defense: A judge must decide whether the defendant is "immune from prosecution," that is, if the judge believes his actions fall under the law of self-defense. So the following mixed outcome is certainly possible: The special prosecutor indicts; the judge does or doesn't grant immunity; if he doesn't, the jury acquits. Many people would be unhappy with such a mixed outcome, but it is not the job of the law to make people happy."

http://www.cnn.com/2012/04/10/opinion/dershowitz-trayvon-prosecutor-nightmare/?hpt=hp_t1

4/11/2012 8:46:21 PM

Florida needs to make up for that Casey Anthony fiasco.

4/11/2012 8:47:17 PM

^ agreed

4/11/2012 8:48:16 PM

^^^Excellent explanation, thanks for posting that.

^^, ^Don't shoot me, but Casey Anthony was the right result.

[Edited on April 11, 2012 at 8:48 PM. Reason : ]

4/11/2012 8:48:35 PM

i just think some states would benefit greatly from free birth control



and why would i shoot you? im satisfied knowing that there is a special place in hell for casey anthony if she did in fact kill her kid or was lying or whatever. if not, then gg justice system.

[Edited on April 11, 2012 at 8:50 PM. Reason : ]

4/11/2012 8:49:29 PM

Agreed. That crazy woman should never have procreated.

4/11/2012 8:49:55 PM

i agree with beethoven, and i would think most of america does also, they may be pissed about it but they know damn well the state presented a sorry case

4/11/2012 8:50:14 PM

A good number of Americans think that the "Pinellas 12" was the worst jury that has ever sat on a case. It's ridiculous that they don't place the proper responsibility on the prosecution to prove their case.

4/11/2012 8:52:09 PM

Quote :

"Don't shoot me, but Casey Anthony was the right result."

It may have been the right result within the narrow context/framework of the Law, but it wasn't the "right" result in a universal sense.

4/11/2012 8:52:34 PM

^^^yeah, so the state is going to do much a better job of proving this case. there is probably evidence that we aren't currently aware of that will support the charges.

[Edited on April 11, 2012 at 8:53 PM. Reason : .]

4/11/2012 8:53:14 PM

Trayvon's autopsy, Zimmerman's phone records, the location of Trayvon's bluetooth headset (and any other bits found at the crime scene-- was martin smoking a joint/blunt on his walk home...?), the path Zimmerman walked, and Trayvon's phone records are the only other pieces of evidence I can think of, that are not known to the public, that could shed some light on the case.

I'd be curios to know what the voice analysis software came up with when given a sample of trayvon's voice too.

[Edited on April 11, 2012 at 8:57 PM. Reason : ]

4/11/2012 8:55:27 PM

Computer records (emails, websites, etc), witnesses they haven't released yet, text messages, POLICE REPORTS in their entirety. Those could all be potentially relevant that we haven't seen yet.

4/11/2012 8:56:53 PM

4/11/2012 9:06:23 PM

he will be found guilty because the Florida republican party cant afford to have a massive voter registration drive caused by a not guilty verdict...

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/os-easter-sunday-black-voter-registration-20120407,0,3158468.story

[Edited on April 11, 2012 at 9:08 PM. Reason : .]

4/11/2012 9:06:30 PM

Pitbull


you guys mean to tell me if that^^ Cholo was following you in the dark of night you wouldnt feel threatened

LOOK AT HIM

[Edited on April 11, 2012 at 9:09 PM. Reason : d]

4/11/2012 9:08:25 PM

May George Zimmerman be prejudged only to the extent to which he prejudged Trayvon Martin.



























nah, j/k. I'm just happy his family will get some sense of closure.

4/11/2012 9:21:27 PM

Quote :

"Going on Zimmermans claims, and since we will more than likely never know who threw the first punch, but if it was Trayvon, he goes from being innocent to criminal the moment that first punch lands."

let me get this straight. Zimmerman has every right to defend himself if he feels threatened, but Trayvon has no right to defend himself if he feels threatened. This is your argument. You are saying that Trayvon is automatically a criminal for doing precisely what you are defending Zimmerman for doing.


as for Trayvon "having a good headstart", did you not see the police sketch earlier in this thread where it shows the alleged routes the two people took? Zimmerman doubled around the other direction and effectively cut off Trayvon, according to that sketch. A "head start" never even mattered in that case, because Trayvon would have run right into Dudley Doowrong.


Then we've got eleusis, who must be trolling, saying that Trayvon should have run away. Which he fucking did

[Edited on April 11, 2012 at 9:34 PM. Reason : ]

4/11/2012 9:31:34 PM

^ Clearly he should have had a gun and shot Zimmerman in self-defense.

4/11/2012 9:32:48 PM

I gotta say, I havent read this thread and just randomly clicked it for an egg (which there was one!), and am surprised at aaronburro's stance. figured he'd be on the other side

4/11/2012 9:33:39 PM

Thats not at all what he said. He said if Trayvon threw the first punch Zimmerman was justified in defending himself. If Zimmerman threw the first punch then he's lost the ability to claim self defense.

4/11/2012 9:37:25 PM

But that doesn't make sense if Martin threw the first punch in self defense because Zimmerman was the aggressor.

I personally think Zimmerman lost the ability to claim self defense before the first punch was thrown, regardless of who threw it.

[Edited on April 11, 2012 at 9:38 PM. Reason : ]

4/11/2012 9:38:21 PM

He gives Trayvon no room to defend himself at all. He doesn't even comprehend that maybe Trayvon threw a punch because he actually felt threatened by a random guy who was following him in a car at night and who then got out and chased him on foot. I mean, god, a fellow must be crazy to feel threatened by that.

[Edited on April 11, 2012 at 9:41 PM. Reason : ]

4/11/2012 9:40:08 PM