Quote :

"SANFORD, Fla. — The family of a teen, who was fatally shot by neighborhood watch leader George Zimmerman, filed a public records lawsuit on Thursday in an effort to get more answers about how the boy died. Family members said 17-year-old Trayvon Martin, of Miami, was visiting his father and stepmother last month at their home in the Retreat at Twin Lakes, which is a predominately white neighborhood in Sanford. The teen's family told WFTV that they want to hear the 911 call made just before Martin was shot and killed. Martin's family said he was walking from a convenience store when he was confronted by Zimmerman. Martin's family and his attorneys believe the 911 call will reveal what kind of instructions dispatchers gave the neighborhood watch leader when he called them, claiming there was a suspicious person in the neighborhood. On Thursday, Sanford Police Chief Bill Lee confirmed to WFTV that the dispatcher told Zimmerman to wait for officers to arrive. However, before police arrived, Zimmerman shot and killed Martin during a scuffle, investigators said. In the recording, Zimmerman said "They always get away," which could prove the family's case that he was out to get their son that day. Police said they found a bag of Skittles and a can of iced tea on Martin, but no weapons. Since he was a boy, Martin wanted to play football and become a pilot, said his family. "To have his life taken away from his by this guy and nothing is being done about it, we just don't understand," said Martin's father, Tracy Martin. Sanford police have not arrested Zimmerman, and Lee said the investigation is ongoing. But Zimmerman has been cooperative and claims it was self-defense, even though Martin didn't have a weapon. "Does the confrontation alone give him a reason, a justifiable reason to shoot and kill a 17-year-old boy?" WFTV reporter Daralene Jones asked. "Well, it depends on the facts and circumstances," said Lee. "Zimmerman, an adult, had a gun. Trayvon Martin, a 17-year-old, had Skittles. No way you can say self-defense," said the family's attorney, Benjamin Crump. Crump said he wants to hear the 911 call that Zimmerman made, but Sanford police won't release it. "If your son had been white, do you think he would've been shot and killed?" Jones asked. "No, I don't think so and honestly if the shoes were on the other foot and my son had did the shooting he would be locked up right now," said Tracy Martin. Officials said Martin had a clean record. Martin's family members said they want to know why Zimmerman hasn't been arrested for killing him. His family's attorneys said they believe Martin was a victim of racial profiling."

http://www.wftv.com/news/news/family-teen-fatally-shot-neighborhood-watch-leader/nLNq9/

Guns don't kill people, racist White people kill people. But maybe it wouldn't have been so easy for him to kill a kid if he didn't have a gun.

3/8/2012 11:21:10 PM

Quote :

"ARMED WITH SKITTLES"

3/8/2012 11:26:57 PM

BAN GUNS

3/8/2012 11:28:01 PM

[image]http://[/image]

the guy gets out of the safety of his own car, does not call the cops, and shoots this kid who was packing an arizona tea and skittle. Why, why the fuck is this man walking around? Bullshit

you can't just shoot someone because you see them walking through your neighborhood. FUCKING FLORIDA

3/8/2012 11:30:59 PM

Study after study has demonstrated how our legal system is heavily biased against black males.

This is just another data point.

3/8/2012 11:41:30 PM

dont be a white kid in the hood or you will also be shot. in fact, you are statistically far more likely to be the victim of a violent crime as a white person in a "black" neighborhood. this is of course a sad situation, but fucked up shit happens everyday everywhere. the dude should of course be arrested and charged.

3/9/2012 12:02:27 AM

Quote :

"This is just another data point."

another data point to be ignored by aaronburro and pack_bryan, and other members of our resident chuckleclub

3/9/2012 12:02:55 AM

^^ what are the chances of the black shooter getting away with murder vs the white?

3/9/2012 12:05:47 AM

if a white kid had skittles in a black neighborhood he would not get shot

fact

3/9/2012 12:10:43 AM

true dat

3/9/2012 12:26:57 AM

3/9/2012 12:29:31 AM

Quote :

"if a white kid had skittles in a black neighborhood he would not get shot"

2nd this, also carry orange or grape drink. Double your chances of survival.

3/9/2012 12:59:26 AM

Well, here's hoping they hang the sonofabitch.

3/9/2012 1:54:21 AM

So the police rolled up, saw a dead teenager with skittles, and a grown-ass man holding a gun at the scene..........

....and they just fuckin' let the dude go home?

3/9/2012 2:55:55 AM

SELFDEFENSSSSSS!!1!

3/9/2012 6:38:47 AM

Unbelievably sad.

I bet zimmerman approached the kid, and told him to stay there. Then the kid probably told zimmerman to fuck off, and walked away. Then I bet zimmerman put his hands on the kid trying to restrain him, there was a scuffle, and the kid gets shot.

3/9/2012 7:08:42 AM

Quote :

"there was a scuffle, and the kid gets shot."

This is the part that gets me. A grown ass man "scuffling" with a child and shooting him meant there needed to be a gun. Who the fuck pulls a gun on a kid? I mean I get that he didn't want the kid to get away if he was doing something wrong, but someone please put this man in jail for being a complete jackass if nothing else.

3/9/2012 7:22:52 AM

I find the OP's white guilt to be tangible, palpable, and delicious ITT

3/9/2012 7:28:30 AM

Quote :

"But maybe it wouldn't have been so easy for him to kill a kid if he didn't have a gun."

Quote :

"But maybe it wouldn't have been so easy for him to kill a kid if he didn't have a gun."

Quote :

"But maybe it wouldn't have been so easy for him to kill a kid if he didn't have a gun."

3/9/2012 7:28:56 AM

If the kid were good enough in football to be recruited by colleges, the shooter would be in jail.

3/9/2012 7:31:52 AM

dude better go to jail

or maybe pops can get some vigilante justice

3/9/2012 7:37:39 AM

^ "Yes they deserved to die, and I hope they burn in heyellll!"

3/9/2012 7:40:14 AM

Besides a crazy, overzealous, gun-owning xenophobe, what kind of 26-year-old is the leader of a neighborhood watch?

3/9/2012 7:43:36 AM

i thought God promised to go away forever

3/9/2012 7:52:32 AM

Cops are stupid, corrupt, oppressive bullies

Quote :

"But maybe it wouldn't have been so easy for him to kill a kid if he didn't have a gun."

Only cops should have guns

[Edited on March 9, 2012 at 8:04 AM. Reason : .]

3/9/2012 8:04:18 AM

^why would cops need guns if only they had them?

3/9/2012 8:22:41 AM

Quote :

"Guns don't kill people, racist White people kill people. But maybe it wouldn't have been so easy for him to kill a kid if he didn't have a gun."

Your quote is half correct. But why violate a person's constitutional rights? Freedom of speech makes illegal activities much easier, so we should ban free speech?

It sounds like some information in this case isn't being let out. First off, the right to use self defense isn't predicated on if the aggressor is armed or not. Secondly, while there are racial justice issues, you can't start off with that idea. Either the kid attached the old man and the old man used lethal force he deemed was necessary or the old man just up and shot the "negro" in his neighborhood. Cops are going for scenario 1 right now... I'd like to see more information though.

3/9/2012 8:34:07 AM

arm everyone!!

3/9/2012 9:15:07 AM

is this really another right to bear arms debate?




prohibition has always worked. I have never seen anyone with anything banned/illegal, ever.

3/9/2012 9:24:23 AM

Based on what has been shared, it sounds like EMCE has it right. The kid was walking through the neighborhood, likely just meandering like teenagers do, and this community "leader" saw him, told him to hold up and the kid responded fuck you.

I've seen this exact interaction happen plenty of times with mall cops or police officers with chips on their shoulders when they see any group of youths (white, asian or black).

In this case the cop had a particularly large chip on his shoulder and so did the kid. A scuffle surely took place (can't say I blame the kid if he swung at someone who tried to restrain him for the police) and the kid lost his life because of it. Regardless of scuffle or not the shooter should have been arrested (currently in jail or not is debatable).

3/9/2012 9:27:33 AM

these threads draw out the liberals like crazy

3/9/2012 9:29:41 AM

IANAL, but shouldn't the 911 call be releasable under a FOIA request?

3/9/2012 9:30:42 AM

Quote :

"I ANAL "

3/9/2012 9:33:36 AM

Only liberals are against the murder of black teenagers.

3/9/2012 9:35:24 AM

Of course that's purely speculation on my part, given what i've experienced growing up and what I see today. Fact of the matter ism no wannabe security gaurd (calling himself a community leader) has a right to put his hands on you, or to try to restrain you.

I just can't imagine a situation where this kid is walking by himself in a foreign neighborhood and thinks to himself "I'm going to attack this random guy".
I can, however, imagine a situation where the community leader comes up and orders the kid to stay put, and the kid says "nah, fuck off...i didnt do anything".

3/9/2012 9:36:45 AM

IANAL, but I thought only hispters and rednecks drank Arizona tea... this is suspicious.

3/9/2012 9:41:04 AM

Quote :

"UPDATE: Chief Bill Lee of the Sanford Police Department on Thursday evening said the account given by Martin’s family and attorney is correct, that Zimmerman saw the young man walking home from the store. He said that Zimmerman did indeed call 911 and report a suspicious person, and that he was told not to follow him. “For some reason he felt that Trayvon, the way that he was walking or appeared seemed suspicious to him,” Lee said. “He called this in and at one part of this initial call [the dispatcher] recommends him not to follow Trayvon. A police officer is on the way at that point.” Lee said that Zimmerman instead followed Martin. “I believe that Mr. Zimmerman was trying to, by his account, find an address to give the officers and also trying to keep Trayvon in eyesight.” Zimmerman told the police that Martin noticed that he was being followed and asked, “what’s your problem?” That's when a physical confrontation ensued, Lee said. And moments later, Martin was shot. Lee said that Zimmerman has a legal permit to carry the weapon used in the shooting, and that he told police that he shot Martin in self-defense. “He felt the need to defend himself,” Lee said. “ I don’t think it was his intent to go and shoot somebody” that night. The chief said the police have met with Zimmerman on two to three separate occasions, and that their investigation should be wrapped up this week. He said all of the evidence in the case will be delivered to the Seminole County State Attorney’s Office soon after. “We’re going to present all the information and if they feel that based on all of the evidence that we’re able to produce that Mr. Zimmerman has satisfied the requirement that he shot in self defense, they may, but if not, he would be charged with some type of homicide or manslaughter,” Lee said."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/08/family-of-trayvon-martin-_n_1332756.html#s766193



He's gonna have a hard time saying it was self-defense when 911 told him not to follow the kid anymore. He'll end up arrested and in court, then jail.

3/9/2012 9:48:09 AM

Also he's 26 and probably crazy.

3/9/2012 9:53:16 AM

Something doesn't quite seem right. Let's hear Trayvon's account of what happened. Trayvon?

Trayvon: __________________


Oh, damn

3/9/2012 9:56:12 AM

^^^what the idiot on the phone says in not legal instruction. Hell, just a few weeks ago, a pair of kids called 911 when someone broke into their house. The operator told the kid to put down his shotgun, and what happened? The criminal entered the room and was shot. Self defense was declared and upheld. 911 operators tell people to not be engaged all the time, because most of the time, that is probably the best course of action. However, sometimes what they say isn't what's best at the time.

[Edited on March 9, 2012 at 9:57 AM. Reason : ^^^]

3/9/2012 9:56:20 AM

Quote :

"For some reason"

wonder what that could have been?

3/9/2012 9:57:17 AM

The Neighborhood Watch guy is a dumb ass. When you're carrying a gun, you're pretty much obligated to not escalate situations.

3/9/2012 9:59:20 AM

that is a completely different situation. It was their home being invaded, kind of hard to argue against that being self defense, this man pursued a minor in his car, and then got out of his car with his gun, when he could have stayed in his car.

self defense would have been in the kid tried to steal the car or at least jumped onto the hood and made threats.

3/9/2012 9:59:43 AM

Quote :

"^what the idiot on the phone says in not legal instruction. Hell, just a few weeks ago, a pair of kids called 911 when someone broke into their house. The operator told the kid to put down his shotgun, and what happened? The criminal entered the room and was shot. Self defense was declared and upheld. 911 operators tell people to not be engaged all the time, because most of the time, that is probably the best course of action. However, sometimes what they say isn't what's best at the time."

I don't think you're comparing these two situations...so this isn't in argument with what you said.

But in this case, this idiot was the instigator (by following him). And they'll never be able to prove it, but on the surface, it definitely looks like he was racial profiling.

Sad shit.

Quote :

"When you're carrying a gun, you're pretty much obligated to not escalate situations."

Fucking "heroes" with guns. I hate guns.

[Edited on March 9, 2012 at 10:01 AM. Reason : .]

3/9/2012 10:00:16 AM

^^following or approaching someone you believe to be is not escalating. If the guy started an argument or the physical confrontation, then that would be escalating and in that case he should go to jail.

^wasn't comparing them; was explaining that 911 operator's instructions are not legal statements. And I agree, this guy could have been profiling or instigated the physical confrontation. However, him profiling isn't illegal (wrong or not is a different issue) and if he didn't escalate (see above) then legally he was justified (most likely, I don't know FL law).

Quote :

"that is a completely different situation. It was their home being invaded, kind of hard to argue against that being self defense, this man pursued a minor in his car, and then got out of his car with his gun, when he could have stayed in his car. self defense would have been in the kid tried to steal the car or at least jumped onto the hood and made threats."

You missed the point. I WASN'T COMPARING THE SITUATIONS. I was explaining that 911 instructions are not legal statements. READ THE POST.

[Edited on March 9, 2012 at 10:04 AM. Reason : .]

3/9/2012 10:00:57 AM

yes, chasing after someone with a gun is not escalating things

3/9/2012 10:03:10 AM

Quote :

"following or approaching someone you believe to be is not escalating. If the guy started an argument or the physical confrontation, then that would be escalating and in that case he should go to jail."

Instigating \= escalating. With "escalating", there is already a situation and you are making it bigger.

This guy started the situation by following him. He didn't need to and didn't have to. Cops (who are trained in this shit) were on their way. He CREATED/INSTIGATED the situation.

3/9/2012 10:03:19 AM

Just because he may have initiated contact, doesn't mean he escalated it. Two different things. You have the right to approach someone and inquire as to what they are doing.

Quote :

"yes, chasing after someone with a gun is not escalating things"

Who said he was chasing the guy? To me, it sounds like the guy was following the other guy (which is not escalating) and the other guy approached/initiated contact first.

[Edited on March 9, 2012 at 10:06 AM. Reason : .]

3/9/2012 10:05:23 AM

Incredibly sad situation

3/9/2012 10:05:30 AM

3/9/2012 10:05:53 AM