Quote :

"the dude you are arguing with used a source that literally says "Driving while black" is, indeed, a measurable phenomenon" so you should just laugh at him"

oh, I'm laughing

it's just fun to see him scramble. it's also wild to know that he represents a significant amount of people who willingly stay ignorant on an issue like this regardless of how many facts are presented to them. plenty of people like that in my own family.

8/4/2015 9:36:58 PM

And to search a car, a cop needs probable cause.

So you can read that as 6.5% of black drivers stopped had their cars searched because they gave the cop probable cause (how I see it)

Or 6.5% of black drivers were stopped by racist cops.

8/4/2015 9:38:21 PM

I knew what that article was when I posted it. I literally Googled "pulled over for being black" and used the first thing that came up. I referenced it because despite being an article meant to defend your side, the statistics do not prove racism, and "vehicle defect" correlates with wealth more so than race.

8/4/2015 9:48:15 PM

wat

8/5/2015 9:21:08 AM

Quote :

"So you can read that as 6.5% of black drivers stopped had their cars searched because they gave the cop probable cause (how I see it)"

lol

you don't believe that some cops see "beling black" as probable cause, and just use some piddly reason to justify it?

[Edited on August 5, 2015 at 10:21 AM. Reason : ]

8/5/2015 9:53:47 AM

he literally used a source that discusses how "driving while black" is a real thing, but thinks it proves that it's not a real thing

8/5/2015 10:18:30 AM

SMH at this "debate".

No one is arguing if African American people are pulled over at a faster rate than white people.

What JCE2011 is getting at (IMO, correct me if I'm wrong) is there are more reasons than just race for the difference in pull over-rates.

For example, that buzzfeed article listed the vast difference in black vs white arrests/citations but failed to research why outside of blaming it on skIn color. It failed to list where the increased traffic stops/patrols were located. It didn't touch on the fact that 3/4 of all families living below the poverty line in Cincinnati are African American (according to census data from 2000).

Damn it, I come to threads like this to read about cops perpetually shooting unarmed people, not read poorly worded arguments attacking debate points that don't exist. Shit's annoying.

8/5/2015 10:26:29 AM

lol, you're annoyed about a debate about race on a public forum.

8/5/2015 10:43:32 AM

Quote :

" is there are more reasons than just race for the difference in pull over-rates."

the source he used discusses this

8/5/2015 10:50:33 AM

No one was shot, but still entertaining:

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/08/the-chutzpah-of-a-police-union-in-orange-county-california/400502/

8/5/2015 10:55:16 AM

Quote :

"you don't believe that some cops see "beling black" as probably cause,"

Probable cause is defined by law, not by racism of the >1%. The 4th amendment exists.

Even if every cop is a grand wizard in the KKK they have to have a reason why they searched you. Even if the cop "decides" it smells like weed because he hates your black guts, he has to find weed to give you a citation.

Quote :

"and just use some piddly reason to justify it?"

You mean the law? Do you see how stupid this mindset is? Implying there is racial intent behind a cop doing their job enforcing the "piddly law" is weak. Shitty buzzfeed articles that say "OMG racist Cops arrest more black people" without evidence of racism are weak.

Quote :

"he literally used a source that discusses how "driving while black" is a real thing, but thinks it proves that it's not a real thing"

Are you still not over this? If I was arguing for atheism, I would quote the bible.

If you are arguing "being pulled over for being black" is a problem, I will google it and use that side's own statistics against it. The benefit of arguing for common-sense concepts is that statistics, regardless of source, will support my side... which I would summarize as:

"The overwhelmingly vast majority of cops aren't racist, and wealth accounts for those disparities more so than skin color"

but as usual, the bleeding-heart white-guilt liberals of TWW view that as "you disagree with my Buzzfeed article, you are such an ignorant racist".

8/5/2015 11:16:22 AM

jeez dude, your ignorance is blinding

8/5/2015 11:21:06 AM

Bullet, no offense, but are you illiterate? I'm not against debating police/race relations. I'm against making "strawman" arguments. Like what you just did.

8/5/2015 11:21:17 AM

yes, i'm illiterate. good job, you won the debate.

8/5/2015 11:24:56 AM

If Bullet was illiterate, wouldn't asking him in writing if he was illiterate be a pointless endeavor?

8/5/2015 11:26:24 AM

Quote :

"jeez dude, your ignorance is blinding"

Care to specifically mention which part of my post(s) were ignorant and why?

8/5/2015 11:38:12 AM

Quote :

"I'm against making "strawman" arguments. Like what you just did."

That was an insult, not a strawman.

8/5/2015 11:40:12 AM

Quote :

"For example, that buzzfeed article listed the vast difference in black vs white arrests/citations but failed to research why outside of blaming it on skIn color. It failed to list where the increased traffic stops/patrols were located. It didn't touch on the fact that 3/4 of all families living below the poverty line in Cincinnati are African American (according to census data from 2000). "

I've attempted to make this point before only to have the synapse moron types scream racism and make some obscure strawman. I firmly believe
a lot behind why blacks get cited for petty crimes like possession of pot is because cops end up having to have a higher presence in low
income neighborhoods due to real crime issues. With the 5-0 were patrolling the random Cary suburban neighborhood at the same rate then
I think the amount of whites cited for minor offenses would increase.

The other factor with searches I think comes to conditioning. If you present yourself looking like a thug, the cops have probably had more
success in finding contraband and thus "rewarded" with getting to make an arrest. The soccer mom in her nice blouse and sunday church dress
probably has a lower chance of being "rewarded" by a search and more likely to present a headache when she files a complaint with the police HQ.

Quote :

"as usual, the bleeding-heart white-guilt liberals of TWW view that as "you disagree with my Buzzfeed article, you are such an ignorant racist"."

Quote :

"jeez dude, your ignorance is blinding"

LAWL i'm guessing Bullet is trolling.

8/5/2015 11:46:29 AM

There are a lot of factors besides race (wealth), but the media likes to handpick when race is relevant and when it isn't. The statistics are there either way, it is just a question of how they are presented, and how objectively you can view them. Looking at the buzzfeed article as an example, of how race is included:

No Race mentioned, No Outrage:

Quote :

"Headline “UCPD Overwhelmingly Targets Criminals” There is an "uptick in robberies of students" in the area surrounding campus. Police increase patrols in those areas, over 3 years the # of citations issued increase over 550% overall The crime rate in the areas around the campus has gone down in recent years as a result "

Race included, but needs more outrage and victims:

Quote :

"Headline “UCPD Overwhelmingly Targets Black Criminals” There is an "uptick in robberies of white students" in the area surrounding campus. 87.6% of known suspects are black males, mean age 27 Police increase patrols in those areas, over 3 years the # of citations issued increase over 550% overall, and over 700% for black people. The crime rate in the areas around the campus has gone down in recent years as a result. "

Perfect:

Quote :

"Headline “UCPD Overwhelmingly Targets Black People” There is an "uptick in robberies of students" in the area surrounding campus. Police increase patrols in those areas, over 3 years the # of citations issued increases over 700% for black people. The crime rate in the areas around the campus has gone down in recent years as a result. "

I think it is funny how thegoodlife3 calls me "willingly ignorant" on this subject after posting this buzzfeed link (that is the definition of deliberate ignorance).

8/5/2015 2:03:32 PM

Yes, I think most of us realize that the media sometimes sensationalizes stories for attention/clicks/profit.

8/5/2015 2:27:20 PM

^^

you're conflating "black people" and "criminals"

is a person a criminal before they're pulled over?

8/5/2015 2:41:38 PM

thegoodlife3 doesn't.

In response to "White guilt/race war/click bait garbage"

Quote :

" the latter is not a thing that exists or will ever exist, no matter how many times you say it."

8/5/2015 2:41:52 PM

now you're just trying too hard

kudos

8/5/2015 2:42:58 PM

Quote :

"you're conflating "black people" and "criminals" is a person a criminal before they're pulled over?"

We aren't talking about "being pulled over" we are talking about citations.

8/5/2015 2:43:09 PM

^ well you could look at the washington post chart from the previous page that you linked to and notice that blacks were pulled over for "no reason given" 55% more often than whites. Though the percentage may be insignificant in the results of the study it's still a pretty telling stat. Perhaps evidence of racial profiling?

And the stats dont really tell the entire truth. Perhaps the police officer pulled over someone for no reason and then found a reason to give them a citation (inflating the rate of vehicle defect or record check). If black people are pulled over more often for no reason, perhaps they are given citations more frequently because the police have the time to find something illegal by running the plate or looking into windows after forcing them to stop.

Here is a stat from the Bureau of Justice Statistics:

Quote :

"Black drivers (12.3%) were about three times as likely as white drivers (3.9%) and about two times as likely as Hispanic drivers (5.8%) to be searched during a traffic stop in 2008"

[Edited on August 5, 2015 at 3:25 PM. Reason : a]

8/5/2015 3:17:03 PM

I want to see the statistics of stops by "no reason" and if a citation was given and further broken down by the race of the officer doing the stop/citation.

I have a hunch that in any modern major city the data would be unfavorable to the arguments of TGL, synapse, and their ilk.

[Edited on August 5, 2015 at 4:02 PM. Reason : a]

8/5/2015 3:38:46 PM

:face palm:

8/5/2015 3:48:41 PM

Quote :

"I have a hunch that in any modern major city will be unfavorable to the arguments of TGL, synapse, and their ilk."

8/5/2015 3:51:48 PM

Is having a hunch the same as a gut feeling?

8/5/2015 3:59:45 PM

more in your shoulders, i think

8/5/2015 4:04:23 PM

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/zachary-hammond-police-killing_55c0e240e4b0c9fdc75dfda3?ncid=fcbklnkushpmg00000013§ion=politics

I'm surprised this thread hasn't already been discussing Zachary Hammond, and more importantly, the indifference from the "#alllivesmatter" crowd while the story has mostly been circulated among the #blacklivesmatter crowd-- despite the fact that Zachary was white.

I think this cited tweet perfectly sums it up:

"#ZacharyHammond isn't going to get the outrage he deserves because it would force folks to admit their consistent defense of police is wrong"

8/5/2015 4:27:51 PM

Quote :

"well you could look at the washington post chart from the previous page that you linked to and notice that blacks were pulled over for "no reason given" 55% more often than whites. Though the percentage may be insignificant in the results of the study it's still a pretty telling stat. Perhaps evidence of racial profiling?"

Possibly, not by itself though. By the same method whites get sobriety checks 400% more than blacks.

I'm curious how these numbers were gathered, as I thought it was illegal for an officer to stop someone without a reason, and I don't understand how the metric exists officially if there wasn't a reason. Also what the category "other" is. In the case of Ferguson the racial bias was executed through the vague police judgement reasons like "Failure to comply" which were used almost exclusively against blacks in Ferguson (94%).

Quote :

""Black drivers (12.3%) were about three times as likely as white drivers (3.9%) and about two times as likely as Hispanic drivers (5.8%) to be searched during a traffic stop in 2008""

This stat by itself doesn't tell a story though, one can infer blacks are generally poorer due to past racism and therefore more likely to be involved in crime, therefore more likely to give probable cause, therefore more likely to be searched. I think everyone agrees racism is the root cause of the disparity, I'm just saying it's historic wealth-based disparity, not present day cop is racist disparity.

[Edited on August 5, 2015 at 4:41 PM. Reason : .]

8/5/2015 4:39:41 PM

Quote :

"I thought it was illegal for an officer to stop someone without a reason"

This might shed some light.

https://www.themarshallproject.org/2015/08/03/how-the-supreme-court-made-it-legal-for-cops-to-pull-you-over-for-just-about-anything

8/5/2015 4:47:43 PM

Quote :

""#ZacharyHammond isn't going to get the outrage he deserves because it would force folks to admit their consistent defense of police is wrong""

LOL.

So some white boy gets murdered by a cop, and nobody cares, and huffingtonpost is trying to spin that as white people are so racist for not caring?

8/5/2015 4:50:55 PM

*sigh*

no.

the point is that a certain outspoken set of people have been calling anything related to #blacklivesmatter as racist, and the standard smug response is #alllivesmatter. Which has pretty much been the conservative/republican stance on it. The retort is fundamentally stupid and is akin to going to a breast cancer fundraiser and screaming that they should be raising money to fight all diseases.

Anyway, the point is that the #alllivesmatter people don't give a shit about anyone, but exist simply to take attention away from the disparate violence by police against black people.

If you need an explanation with fewer syllables, let me know.

8/5/2015 5:01:06 PM

So the "AllLivesMatter" team doesn't care about black kids getting murdered (racist), so when they don't care about white kids getting murdered either, its also racist? #Liberal Logic

I'm just pointing out that HuffingtonPost found a way to take a white kid getting murdered, and use it to whine about racism.

#All HuffingtonPost Articles Don't Matter

Quote :

"If you need an explanation with fewer syllables, let me know."

A HuffingtonPost link and a condescending, dismissive tone, what a shocker!

8/5/2015 5:34:31 PM

Quote :

"This stat by itself doesn't tell a story though, one can infer blacks are generally poorer due to past racism and therefore more likely to be involved in crime, therefore more likely to give probable cause, therefore more likely to be searched. I think everyone agrees racism is the root cause of the disparity, I'm just saying it's historic wealth-based disparity, not present day cop is racist disparity."

Truth but i'm sure synapse says this is racist....

Quote :

"Anyway, the point is that the #alllivesmatter people don't give a shit about anyone, but exist simply to take attention away from the disparate violence by police against black people. "

Except that breast cancer is a real thing and the logic behind #blacklivesmatter is fundamentally flawed...

Quote :

"Hammond's death also highlights a truth many white Americans seem reluctant to face: that police violence can affect anyone -- their white friends, cousins, brothers, sisters, even themselves. Though bad policing may take a disproportionate toll on communities of color, the calls for reform now being voiced loudest by people of color would benefit all of us."

I'm glad someone has common sense....

but then

Quote :

"Many people in the Black Lives Matter movement have been saying this since the beginning, which is why, in the absence of much mainstream media coverage, black Twitter has taken the most active role in making sure Hammond's name and story are heard."

The author loses me here. Seems like the general message from the #blacklivesmatter crowd is that the mean po-po goes around picking on black folk because they are all racist....

Quote :

"indifference from the "#alllivesmatter" crowd while the story has mostly been circulated among "

Could the reason be that the story has barely made headlines due to the suspect being white? If it were a black youth it'd be CNN headlines with huffingtonpost creating headlines insinuating racism involved with the killings of another African-American youth by mean racist police!

[Edited on August 5, 2015 at 7:12 PM. Reason : a]

8/5/2015 7:06:41 PM

Quote :

"Truth but i'm sure synapse says this is racist."

Hey look another strawman from the knuckledragger.

Quote :

" the mean po-po goes around picking on black folk because they are all racist"

and another


[Edited on August 5, 2015 at 7:31 PM. Reason : SHOCKED]

8/5/2015 7:30:25 PM

Im just learning of Zach Hammonds death at the hands of South Carolina police. Shot to death over 10 grams of weed while on a date. The police claim he was using his car as a weapon, and they shot him in the back.

RIP my melanin-challenged bro.

8/6/2015 11:22:28 AM

#AllLivesMatter

http://money.cnn.com/2015/08/06/news/ferguson-arrest-warrants/index.html?iid=hp-toplead-dom

Quote :

"One year later: Ferguson is still pumping out arrest warrants"

I guess we should let the law slide, minor crimes to be ignored, and dismiss any infraction when the defendant doesn't show up to court or pay the fine; when committed by our low income African-American neighbors since it is not there fault that the white system has kept them in poverty, their grandparents couldn't buy houses, and they were not raised with adequate resources to be expected to act as law abiding citizens. Giving tickets to African Americans committing an infraction RACIST!

AM I RITE

[Edited on August 6, 2015 at 12:30 PM. Reason : a]

[Edited on August 6, 2015 at 12:32 PM. Reason : a]

8/6/2015 12:24:37 PM

remember that discussion about black people and niggas? you still don't get it, and you probably never will. at least I get out of your comments that #YouDontMatter

8/6/2015 3:40:46 PM

It's almost as if there is a correlation between being poor and crime... rather than the pigmentation of your skin.

Quote :

""You are just punishing someone for being poor," Roediger said"

8/6/2015 3:44:00 PM

nobody's claimed there isn't a correlation between being poor and crime.

that argument is called........ a strawman

8/6/2015 3:48:44 PM

Quote :

"nobody's claimed there isn't a correlation"

When did I said they did? (You are accusing a strawman of a strawman LOL)

A general statement not targeted at anyone is not a strawman.

8/6/2015 4:13:44 PM

come on man, are you trying to just be annoying now?

8/6/2015 4:15:33 PM

http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/08/us/texas-dealership-shooting/index.html

Quote :

"An unarmed Texas college football player was fatally shot by police after he allegedly drove a vehicle through the glass doors of a car dealership in the middle of the night in Arlington, authorities said."

Starts again!

I bet the cop is racist and hates black people

[Edited on August 8, 2015 at 8:10 PM. Reason : Y]

8/8/2015 8:10:02 PM

Whoa. You don't fuck with football in Texas. Expect major repercussions!

8/8/2015 9:49:33 PM

No body camera on this one. The cop-in-training will walk

8/8/2015 10:24:51 PM

Quote :

"I bet the cop is racist and hates black people"

Oh look the knuckledragging racist shitbag has yet another stupid strawman.

Didn't see that coming.

8/9/2015 1:39:35 AM

Go suck al sharpton cock you pussy

8/9/2015 2:43:48 AM