We need to bring back lawn darts too.

2/25/2018 2:14:02 AM

[Edited on February 25, 2018 at 6:36 AM. Reason : r]

2/25/2018 6:21:20 AM

Quote :

"do you think the further gun restrictions you are championing wouldn't also be applied unevenly across racial and socioeconomic boundaries?"

Current gun freedoms are still applied unevenly so that doest seem like a good argument against more gun control but a separate issue.

[Edited on February 25, 2018 at 8:12 AM. Reason : E]

2/25/2018 8:11:51 AM

http://inthesetimes.com/article/20937/parkland-shooting-gun-control-democrats

2/25/2018 12:54:55 PM

hot take alert!

2/25/2018 1:11:23 PM

What the ever-lovin hell is this mess?

http://money.cnn.com/2018/02/26/news/companies/delta-nra-georgia-republican/index.html

2/26/2018 9:37:21 PM

https://taskandpurpose.com/switzerland-stunningly-high-rate-gun-ownership-heres-doesnt-mass-shootings/?bsft_eid=d4bdea7b-0afd-4dbf-8117-0fbbf146bb6d&utm_campaign=tp_daily_monday_pm&utm_source=blueshift&utm_medium=email&utm_content=tp_daily_pm_ricks&bsft_pid=f9a2215e-7973-4c1f-b68a-04cf5df6faa0&bsft_clkid=809a7649-4dd6-457c-9c9e-0d00d919580e&bsft_uid=81d96db6-f222-4ab3-be92-cabd74a03bf7&bsft_mid=525bcc15-5a50-46a1-babf-19ad30f2e68a&bsft_pp=1

Thought this was an interesting article. Not posting it as a pro/anti gun thing, just found it interesting.

2/26/2018 9:49:55 PM

LMFTFY

https://taskandpurpose.com/switzerland-stunningly-high-rate-gun-ownership-heres-doesnt-mass-shootings

2/27/2018 1:12:00 AM

^^^ http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2018/02/gop-no-tax-cut-for-delta-until-it-gives-discounts-to-nra.html

2/27/2018 5:17:11 AM

Is that the government tyranny the second amendment warns about? Perhaps Delta should arm its planes.

2/27/2018 9:00:03 AM

Planes can already be used as weapons. Motherfuckers hit the Pentagon with an American Airlines jet, my dude.

2/27/2018 10:05:06 AM

Did you just "actually" a joke?

2/27/2018 10:43:05 AM

Quote :

"Perhaps Delta should arm its planes."

what's an Air Marshal?

2/27/2018 12:41:51 PM

woosh

2/27/2018 12:44:02 PM

like an air marshal could even stay alive if you mounted him on the wing

[Edited on February 27, 2018 at 1:41 PM. Reason : or her, sorry]

2/27/2018 1:41:13 PM

I'm thinking more and more about the point that the right keeps sticking to - arm teachers.

NO

Is this a truly thought-out idea? It's bad enough that teachers get paid what they do. The benefit of the doubt for them has been gone for 30 years when it comes to test scores, discipline...you name it, it is always the parents word against a teachers and the parent usually wins. Do we really need to make guns a guaranteed liability in the classroom?

For the pro-teacher-with-a-gun folks, what is the typical scenario in your mind? Are the guns holstered on the teachers, accessible at all times? Or are they locked in a drawer in their desk? What happens the first time a student who wouldn't normally have access to a gun gets one from the teacher and begins to shoot up the classroom? Whose hands has that blood on them? Or what if a gun accidentally goes off and kills a kid? You have a teacher who didn't really want a gun in the first place now charged with what, manslaughter 2?

My daughter will grow up with a healthy appreciation for guns, she will be comfortable around them, and be knowledgeable of them when the time comes. But the first time I hear there will be a gun in one of her classrooms, we out.

2/27/2018 1:45:52 PM

How many teachers do you know? How many of them would actually want to possess a gun? Especially around kids? How many of them would you feel comfortable knowing they had guns around your children? It's insane that this is actually where the "debate" is at.

2/27/2018 2:07:06 PM

Most teachers I know wouldn't dare bring or want to bring a firearm in the classroom. This isn't something that teachers want.

Teachers don't go to school for four years to learn active shooter protocol using live firearms.

2/27/2018 2:09:46 PM

Quote :

"I'm thinking more and more about the point that the right keeps sticking to..."

That's your first mistake. Allowing the right to dictate the terms of negotiation is a strategy guaranteed to make you lose ground.

Quote :

"It's insane that this is actually where the "debate" is at."

It is insane. And it's even more insane to entertain these solutions as if they're being brought forth in good faith. What's even more insane is that this "solution" is more likely to pass than any actual reform that limits access to guns.


'Merica, yo. We stay strapped.

2/27/2018 2:13:39 PM

I think administrators with offices that want to should be allowed to have guns with proper gun safes. Other than that, school shootings are sufficiently rare to not put much effort into preventing them. Sure, we should probably do some training so the cops that show up don't wait outside patiently until the shooting inside stops. Beyond that, in-terms of lives saved, we already spend too many resources on this issue.

2/27/2018 3:27:28 PM

will teachers get the same protections that LEO get if they shoot someone or will the be held to the same standards as a private citizen?

2/27/2018 3:57:53 PM

^

2/27/2018 4:07:09 PM

This isn't a real conversation.

2/27/2018 4:14:07 PM

Oh you better believe it is, baby!

America! Pew pew pewwwww!

2/27/2018 4:26:20 PM

in the florida bill it would apply to teachers who take LEO training and are deputized, so I guess they would get LEO protections?

deputizing teachers seems like a great way to turn the shool to prison pipeline into a school to prison aqueduct

2/27/2018 4:49:31 PM

As a teacher who has been in an emergency situation with students before...I am very very very very very very much against guns in classrooms.

A teacher's #1 responsibility is to keep the students calm and quiet, and to assess if there is a safe way out of the building or if you need to cut the lights and lock the door. Children of all ages, from pre-k to high school seniors, will absolutely be freaking out. And if the teacher pulls out a gun to go after the shooter, there will not be an adult with a fully-formed pre-frontal cortex and emergency training there to care for the children.

^Maybe it means more kids in prison, but it certainly means more kids in the grave.

2/27/2018 6:27:00 PM

^^^^^^ Man, that's an important question, and in no case should they get treated like an LEO.

Also, we shouldn't be "arming teachers" or in any way encouraging teachers to carry weapons, other than allowing licensed CCP holders to CC at work just like they CC without incident at other places. Maybe even levy additional requirements (hell, even though CCP holders are all but a statistical non-issue, I wouldn't be opposed to more demanding requirements in general.)

2/27/2018 7:41:49 PM

I posted this in CC 24 hours ago but no response. Perhaps people here can answer me:

Someone explain how this works to me. Death threats because they are now pushing for gun control? Or are the death threats from a tiny number of conspiracy theorists who don't believe the terrorist attack happened (false flag-gers)? What the hell is going on in the US??? Whatever the reason, it is utterly repugnant, but it is important to know the reason for their psychosis so that it can be tackled in the correct way.

2/28/2018 1:48:02 AM

good guy with a gun https://www.ajc.com/news/crime--law/breaking-teacher-custody-after-shot-fired-school/Yszy9v7Z9Vy86bTp9ygdWJ/

2/28/2018 1:14:33 PM

Jeremy Scahill basically making all the points I've been haphazardly making on today's Intercepted podcast:

https://theintercept.com/2018/02/28/intercepted-podcast-white-supremacy-and-the-church-of-the-second-amendment/

2/28/2018 1:58:47 PM

when did you make any of those points?

2/28/2018 2:03:31 PM

literally the first example he uses is the one about the black panther party marching on the state capital of California, and that leading to gun restrictions because the state responds harshly to the left and supports the right....

but i mean, you can blithely ignore that as well as the correlation between right-wing nationalism and gun ownership since you got your feelings hurt a few pages back

2/28/2018 2:18:56 PM

your point was that one shouldn't deal with anyone who wants something other than no guns, where do they make that point?

2/28/2018 2:24:19 PM

My point was that it is stupid to take the Rights arguments at face value, because their actions do not align with the "argument" they say in public. Their behavior consistently aligns with nationalism and far right ideology, and not the "liberty" arguments that they make in public.

You out here trying to reason with a side that is not only armed, but also ideologically opposed to you on every other matter. Just look at those who you agree with on this issue. You are ideologically opposed to them on practically every other issue with them on left vs right terms, yet you are allied with them on the one issue that guarantees their physical and lethal dominance over the left, the poor, and the radicals. Because you're a chump. And you're making arguments that mealy-mouthed liberals make with regards to compromise and incremental reformism.

2/28/2018 3:01:50 PM

anyone thinks that most pro-gun people are "white people who want to use them on black people" is a fucking idiot

2/28/2018 3:18:44 PM

^

2/28/2018 3:20:43 PM

"But whhhhhhhaaaaadddddaaaabout Chicago?!!!!!#?!"

"Inner cities!"

"Black on black crime!!!"


Those are all NRA talking points....Dtown out here with his buddy Treetwista, not hearing those dog whistles. Must be hard hearing those over the sound of NWA's "Respect the police," right tree?

[Edited on February 28, 2018 at 3:34 PM. Reason : ]

2/28/2018 3:30:39 PM

literally no one here who wants sensible gun control is saying that, you've just convinced yourself what argument other people are making and constantly and consistently don't pay attention to them. that's why everyone is calling you an extremist.



[Edited on February 28, 2018 at 3:38 PM. Reason : eleusis prolly saying it]

2/28/2018 3:36:55 PM

The current state of the gun control debate is discussing whether or not your local elementary school teacher should be allowed to kill a campus intruder.


But sure, I'm an extremist

2/28/2018 3:46:28 PM

yeah, there are definitely not any other people talking about other things


your do nothing position is morally equivalent to the people who want to arm teachers

2/28/2018 4:01:03 PM

nah....

You wouldn't say that to people who are firm in their desire to see medicare for all. There's no moral equivalency between "let poor people die" and "don't let poor people die."

You wouldn't say that to people who want free college education. There's no moral equivalency between "deny poor people education" and "don't deny poor people education"

You wouldn't say that to people who want an end to American imperialism and foreign wars. There's no moral equivalency between "murder foreign brown people" and "don't murder foreign brown people"


But somehow you think we need to meet a side that wants to arm teachers in the middle, because you think there's a moral equivalency between "let teachers use lethal force" vs "don't let teachers use lethal force."

2/28/2018 4:14:42 PM

none of those people refuse to take action that isn't perfect

[Edited on February 28, 2018 at 4:20 PM. Reason : your position is inaction, inaction is morally corrupt ]

2/28/2018 4:20:06 PM

lolol.......you ain't about that action

2/28/2018 4:21:48 PM

you ain't about any action

2/28/2018 4:22:28 PM

good one.

Have fun debating the merits of armed teachers. That's literally where the gun control debate currently resides. And that's literally where legislative action is headed. We are making zero strides towards arms reduction, which is the only direction we can go to limit gun deaths. We could make strides to go there, but you out here dismissing people who want to see less people with guns for being "morally corrupt," which is a term that you clearly don't understand.

2/28/2018 4:26:18 PM

lol, wat

you're the one criticizing people on your side and not wanting to take action that is anything short of repealing the 2nd amendment

trying to turn that around is crazy town

there are gun owners in this thread who want to increase gun control and your response is just, "yeah well you want dead kids and dead black people i'm not talking to you." where does that get anyone?

[Edited on February 28, 2018 at 4:40 PM. Reason : .]

2/28/2018 4:27:01 PM

You're a gun owner that is incapable of observing how that fact might be clouding your judgement and aligning yourself with the rabid right wing that wants to increase gun ownership. How is this not fucking obvious to you? How do you square that circle? How do you meaningfully reduce the overall number of guns while still maintaining yours? Do you honestly believe that we can lower gun deaths while still steadily increasing the total number of guns in circulation? If the entire ideological reason for the defense of gun ownership is built on a myth, then why are we supposed to respect it?

Because if YOU, DTOWN, truly believe that the 2nd amendment is necessary to defend against government oppression, then your position should be to have LESS restrictions. Your position, as a self described person on the left who likes gun ownership, should be that MORE people should be armed, because in other threads on other topics, you openly acknowledge the forms of government oppression that visit poor and minority communities. You should be advocating that those communities arm themselves in order to combat the tyranny they face, mainly from every day policing to mass incarceration. But that's not your position. You take the moderate, "sensible" restriction approac.. That position simultaneously does little to reduce gun violence, and actively disadvantages the communities who would most benefit from an armed uprising. Your positron is entirely inconsistent with your position on other issues.

2/28/2018 5:20:41 PM

JHC, please share with us your plan to convince everyone to give up their guns and support a ban and/or 2nd Amendment repeal.

There are pro-gun people here that are attempting to put forth more achievable goals, but you criticize those goals as merely "meeting in the middle," or compromising with gun-nuts. That kind of talk isn't going to get us anywhere. And to be clear, as a gun owner myself, the goals I speak of do NOT include arming teachers.

And I'm surprised to see Trump butting heads with the NRA - didn't see that one coming.

2/28/2018 5:22:55 PM

JHC, how many people do you think own guns because they occasionally like to shoot them because they're fun, but primarily they just want to be able to protect their families if someone breaks into their home? Cause I think there are a lot of people like that. Why do you want to prevent people from protecting their families?

[Edited on February 28, 2018 at 5:47 PM. Reason : and arming teachers is retarded. has anyone ITT advocated arming teachers?]

2/28/2018 5:31:39 PM

Quote :

"believe that the 2nd amendment is necessary to defend against government oppression"

This is far from the only argument for gun rights.

[Edited on February 28, 2018 at 6:21 PM. Reason : a]

2/28/2018 6:19:24 PM