ugh moving is the pits. i was doing well eating right and staying on track but still unpacking and trying to get accustomed to our new space has killed me. i am still going to the gym everyday but not being able to get to the grocery store has killed my diet. plus, when i eat bad stuff, it reacts against me tenfold and now i am up 4 pounds since last Monday. super puffy too

once i get done working i am heading to the grocery store!

2/11/2013 10:09:11 AM

what are some good exercises to do after abdominal surgery? i want to stretch and strengthen the muscles. how soon can i start?

2/11/2013 10:13:23 AM

Ask your doctor and/or physical therapist.

2/11/2013 10:22:38 AM

Aw, but that's no fun! But probably the best answer.

2/11/2013 10:57:56 AM

General guideline for tissue healing is 6-8 weeks. That's probably the window they'll tell you. The sooner you are able to start PT, the better, to prevent tissue adhesion.

2/11/2013 11:12:37 AM

I'm not supposed to lift over 10 pounds for 6 weeks, so that seems to be a good guideline.

2/11/2013 11:25:11 AM

20 some ounces of coffee first thing this morning around 8AM, then 45 minutes of treadmill walking at about 9AM. Breakfast at approx. 10AM had 3 eggs, 4 slices of bacon and a glass of naked green machine juice. Just finished lunch, 3 sirloin strip filets (almost exactly 1 lb. precooked), homemade guacamole (1 avacado, 3 cloves garlic, 1/4 cup onion, juice of 1 lime) with about 15 corn and flax tortilla chips. About to nap and then go lift.

2/11/2013 1:57:41 PM

Quote :

"our colon has 5 lbs of impacted feces in it if you eat at fucking mcdonalds."

I'm supposed to take face's nutrition advice seriously when he posts this?

http://www.snopes.com/horrors/gruesome/fecalcolon.asp

2/11/2013 2:32:48 PM

^ I hope that you are joking.

Let's not cloud the thread with misinformation though please, clearly you can hold five pounds worth of food in your stomach and that will drastically affect how much weight someone may lose week one.

2/11/2013 3:33:57 PM

Food in stomach doesn't mean "impacted fecal matter in colon". That line is promoted by colon cleansers and other pseudo-scientists to sell unnecessary enemas. I mean, you're welcome to provide the medical literature that supports "Your colon has 5 lbs of impacted feces in it if you eat at fucking mcdonalds" If you want to take this to PMs, feel free, but I just found it a bit silly that you're acting like the only true font of knowledge in here dropping gems like that. Also, I'll admit in the thread that I was wrong and you were right if you can convince me.

[Edited on February 11, 2013 at 4:05 PM. Reason : .]

2/11/2013 4:04:41 PM

Sorry taking my statement a little too literally bro. The point is at any given time you can be carrying a lot of weight in your stomach and that when someone first begins a diet, of the first ten lbs they "lose" very little of it is actually fat.

I'm here to get results and educate the masses.

2/11/2013 4:08:18 PM

Oh boy. This is exciting. I see the education, where are the results? Pics or gtfo.

2/11/2013 4:10:51 PM

The results are pretty impressive. I'm leaner than I've been in years after 2 weeks of barely below maintenance and 3.5 weeks of rapid fat loss (with alcohol binging).

Again, I've probably got the best results of anyone in this thread that's attempted to lose weight this year. And still going strong.

[Edited on February 11, 2013 at 5:10 PM. Reason : a]

2/11/2013 5:08:38 PM

Such great results would definitely be seen in pics. Don't leave us hanging man. I can't wait to get inspired to break up with my girlfriend and get lean, bro.

2/11/2013 5:21:03 PM

Most of the weight I've lost so far isn't that noticeable in pictures as I just recently started burning subcutaneous fat i had a lot of visceral accumulation to work though first. I'm shedding massive amounts of fat though, my belt doesn't even work anymore.

Besides i'm not going to go Nair myself just for a wolfweb picture nine days before i end the diet. Plus I haven't reduced my water intake and I'm loaded with creatine/yohimbine.

Not going to post a poor picture just so people can try to downplay my results. RIP GIRLFRIEND

[Edited on February 11, 2013 at 5:25 PM. Reason : a]

2/11/2013 5:25:07 PM

2/11/2013 5:26:31 PM

i think everyone knows face is kind of a joke in this thread.

1/3 of what he says is factual information

1/3 is broscience or not backed by any peer reviewed studies

the other third is worthless blog rants that no one cares about

2/11/2013 5:35:12 PM

1) I find it hard to believe your body is going to look any different in nine days than it does now.
2) there's a difference between looking like you're in shape and actually BEING in shape.
3) you're trying to get in shape but still binge drink? Your insides are probably in rough shape, I bet you'd pass out if you tried to run 30 minutes.

2/11/2013 5:41:52 PM

that's because i think running sucks and i have lost all this weight without even running a fucking 1/4 mile so why bother doing it? Running is for athletic performance, not fat loss.

which part is broscience?? Most of this is REAL science unlike the crap bandied around all over the internet.


And what do you mean i won't look different in nine days, that's silly... are you saying there's no difference between 15% and 12.5% bodyfat? The lower your bodyfat gets the more obvious the changes are. Right now my chest/shoulders/arms have nearly finished leaning out, but my abdominal section is just beginning to make significant changes.


Haters hating again because I'm the one putting in the work and actually burning fat.

[Edited on February 11, 2013 at 6:11 PM. Reason : a]

2/11/2013 6:10:23 PM

If losing weight is all that matters why not do heroin or cocaine or something?

2/11/2013 6:16:17 PM

I'm burning fat. Not trying to become a junkie or 125 lbs with no muscle.

cocaine destroys your appetite. I take it you've never used it, but go ahead and try to eat 280g of protein a day on it.


And if we're talking about health my health has probably improved more than anyone's in this thread in the past 4 weeks. Significant fat loss always leads to lower blood pressure, less risk for heart disease, lower bad cholesterol, etc. I've improved my lipid panels, insulin sensitivity, etc just by shedding fat.



[Edited on February 11, 2013 at 6:24 PM. Reason : a]

2/11/2013 6:21:48 PM

Quote :

"which part is broscience?? Most of this is REAL science unlike the crap bandied around all over the internet."

whats the yohimbine for?

Quote :

"Haters hating again because I'm the one putting in the work and actually burning fat."

if im hating its due to the way you are going about this. at the same time i dont need to compete either.

[Edited on February 11, 2013 at 6:29 PM. Reason : i'll look through the other pages later]

[Edited on February 11, 2013 at 6:34 PM. Reason : ]

2/11/2013 6:28:31 PM

yohimbine HCL is an alpha receptor inhibitor.

Stubborn body fat (abdominals/lower back) for men has a high percentage of alpha receptors. It's really hard to mobilize the fat from those cells.

Yohimbine HCL stimulates blood flow (hence its recommended usage for guys with performance issues) and allows you to mobilize the fats in stubborn areas easier.

It's worthless if you're over 15% body fat and invaluable when you get down sub 10%



(just clarifying. yohimbine is a bark and is not recommended due to the side effects. use the HCL it's a cleaner compound with less side effects)

[Edited on February 11, 2013 at 6:36 PM. Reason : a]

2/11/2013 6:34:29 PM

and validated by which peer reviewed paper?

2/11/2013 6:35:44 PM

I wasn't aware there was any controversy surrounding yohimbine's effectivness with stubborn body fat, it seems pretty widely accepted but this will get you started I guess.

Adrenoceptors

Lanfontan M et. al. Alpha-2 adrenoceptors in lipolysis: alpha2 antagonists and lipidmobilizing
strategies. Am J Clin Nutr (1992) 55: 219s-227s.

An early paper looking at the role of alpha-2 adrenoceptor antagonist (such as yohimbe)
and how they might help with fat loss.



And of course there's this one http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17214405


that can get you started.

[Edited on February 11, 2013 at 6:44 PM. Reason : a]

2/11/2013 6:42:52 PM

yohimbine should be used locally and not systemically; topical application with DMSO used to be popular with bodybuilders, but not sure if it still is.

2/11/2013 6:48:56 PM

I've had about 9 lbs of legit fat loss since early January, but there's really not much to say about it. I ate less, walked more, and cut the volume of my workouts by a little bit - nothing sensational. Fat loss is extremely methodical; there really are no unexpected hurdles, especially once you understanding your body's preferences. People should understand that a consistent, steady approach is best, but that requires patience. Heavy drinking with 36-48 hour fasts and basically zero carb and fat intake is simply bad advice for anyone that is concerned with the "health and wellness" part of the equation. We all instinctively understand that "fast results guaranteed" is bullshit.

What they don't tell you about being shredded is that, with clothes on, it doesn't even look like you lift, you just look like another skinny dude. Obviously, that changes with sufficient muscle mass (dat V taper/adonis index) but "sufficient" muscle mass takes years to build and isn't worth sacrificing to get lean in some arbitrary time period. Last time I checked, most of the work in the pick up game is performed while clothed, anyway. Getting women to sleep with you typically doesn't depend on a few body fat percentage points. "Eww, only your top 4 abs are ripped, get away from me creep!" isn't something you're likely to hear.

The key is to not eat like an idiot in the "off season" so that you can build muscle and not get too fat. Personally, I prefer being relatively lean year around, and if I want to get disgustingly shredded for a few months there's always that option.

2/11/2013 6:55:29 PM

i dont disagree that you can use that but even if you use it topically it might enter the blood stream and then dissipate anyway.

The bottom line is there is really know shortcut here. Diet and resistance training are how you shed fat. Supplements can help, but they really just make cutting more efficient, you can do it without them if you have patience but you may have to cut a little longer which could cause you to lose a little more LBM also.


High intensity cardio with restricted calories is highly catabolic and not recommended. Also it will kill you because recovery is brutal on restricted diets when you introduce high intensity cardio. Just don't do it, it's bad.

2/11/2013 6:58:18 PM

Pics pics pics pics pics!!!!

Seriously if you really did this:

Quote :

"And what do you mean i won't look different in nine days, that's silly... are you saying there's no difference between 15% and 12.5% bodyfat? The lower your bodyfat gets the more obvious the changes are. Right now my chest/shoulders/arms have nearly finished leaning out, but my abdominal section is just beginning to make significant changes."

Then there would be a difference with pics. Dooooooo ittttt! Peer pressure!!!!!

2/11/2013 7:08:43 PM

i guess i stand educated on yohimbine.

2/11/2013 7:15:09 PM

Quote :

"Pics pics pics pics pics!!!!! "

2/11/2013 7:20:44 PM

I've heard good things about yohimbine, Lyle McDonald recommends it and he is pretty rigorous in his science.

Eleusis, one thing about topical administration is that it's hard to know or control dosage. I dont have too much first hand experience, but again, Lyle McDonald recommends oral use. I don't take his word as gospel, but he's one of the few experts that fact checks.

2/11/2013 7:34:03 PM

So you think you're going to go from 15% to 12.5% body fat in nine days?

also, lots of people think running sucks, but they do it so they won't get winded and feel like shit when they do anything athletic or stamina/endurance related. but if you just want to give the appearance of being in shape, have fun.

and you're the only one putting in work? That's insulting. how about all the people who have posted in this thread that never let themselves get out of shape/overweight in the first place. we've been putting in the work for years to have a healthy life. Try "putting in work" for years and years and then get back to us. In the meantime, have fun getting shitfaced multiple days a week and confusing the hell out of your body by changing your strategy every week based on the last thing you read on the internet.

2/11/2013 7:44:37 PM

^ You're taking the troll bait. It's best to just let him keep fishing.

2/11/2013 8:35:49 PM

Prediction: Sometime in the next few weeks, a low resolution picture of a bare chested male appears in this thread. Not fat, not skinny, not scrawny, not ripped. Just your average 30 year old Caucasian torso. Of course, it comes with several caveats, blaming a recent drinking binge or yohimbine overdose for the lack of clearly defined pecs and washboard abs. Its quickly discarded by the poster mentioning that its still only February, so its not even close to a finished product and that he's only putting it up to placate the masses, and he's still got three months and change to get in Pauly D shape and he's busy walking 45 minutes two times a week and the fat is just melting off and since we're all fucking idiots and can't eyeball the difference between 15% body fat and 12.5, we shouldn't make comments based on silly conjecture and he doesn't really have time to talk about it now because he's in the middle of a 96 hour fast except for the 15 whiskey sours he just imbibed, and he'd love to stay and chat but he's got a pussy appointment with the hostess at Ruby Tuesday's and doesn't want to be more than 45 minutes late, plus he's gotta find time to hit up the wake for that dead girlfriend.


Same old shit, dog. Just a different day.

2/11/2013 8:54:23 PM

^took the words right outta my mouth! well said.

^^haha, I know, I should know better.

[Edited on February 11, 2013 at 9:19 PM. Reason : lols]

2/11/2013 9:13:10 PM

Quote :

"one thing about topical administration is that it's hard to know or control dosage. I dont have too much first hand experience, but again, Lyle McDonald recommends oral use. I don't take his word as gospel, but he's one of the few experts that fact checks. "

for topical administration, I found it easy to guestimate dosage by dissolving the yohimbine in DMSO (and maybe a little tea tree oil), putting it in a spray pump like those made for olive oil, and spraying a little bit on the target area before doing cardio. You can judge future dosing based on how you respond to the initial dosing and adjust up or down from there. The physiological effects are very pronounced, so judging dosage for yohimbine in particular isn't that difficult topically. I wouldn't recommend topical application of any other workout supplement though.

I personally was more of a fan of Dan Duchaine than Lyle McDonald, mainly because I saw Duchaine as more of an innovator and McDonald as a perfector of what others laid the groundwork on. Duchaine preached on localized application of yohimbine over oral administration.

[Edited on February 11, 2013 at 10:28 PM. Reason : WARNING: Yohimbine is an MAOI and can interact negatively with many medications. ]

2/11/2013 10:12:48 PM

Hahaha love it slave. actually there is a good bit of truth to what you've written but let me expand/clarify a little.

1) The picture will be slightly low resolution because it's taken off a camera phone. But it will be the same resolution as the last one so comparison should be easy.

2) No one is claiming that I will have washboard abs or be ripped. I'm working out after what essentially amounts to an 8 year layoff. I'm showing the transformation an ordinary, average person can make in 7 weeks if they follow science instead of spinning their wheels. This is the beginning of the transition, I haven't gone through a hypertrophy phase yet, nor can I erase all 8 years of poor dieting/exercise in 7 weeks.

3) I wouldn't fast 96 hours thats too long. I love whiskey sours but I drink my whiskey straight because I'm a man and too much sour mix hurts my stomach and contains way too many carbs.

4) The last three girls in the service industry I've hooked up with work at three of the nicer establishments in downtown Raleigh, all in the past couple of weeks. The last three girls I dated in the service industry were from Hooters, Buffalo Wild Wings, and "High Beams". So my tastes have evolved with age.


5) Now if you'll excuse me I just took 200mg caffeine and 15mg yohimbine hcl and I'm headed for a 2 AM walk because that's just how the slugs get dealt.

[Edited on February 12, 2013 at 1:38 AM. Reason : a]

2/12/2013 1:37:50 AM

oh the suspense

2/12/2013 3:35:03 AM

Alright I'm going to drop some knowledge on you bros. If you've never listened to a thing I've said, hear me out on this one post.

I'm going to explain why 95% of dieters/body recompositioners fail at changing their body type.

The consensus opinion is that you should always begin by focusing on adding strength/muscle and then later shed the fat. Now for a 17 year old kid weighing 135 lbs at 8.5% body fat looking to not get pushed around on the basketball court that is true.

Let's talk about a standard 30 year old male at 5'10, 185 lbs and 23% bodyfat. In the first month he is going to start strength training and jogging and see RAPID strength increases assuming he's not a total retard. He's also going to see some drops in water weight, food in the gut, etc as he switches from Papa Johns, McDonalds, and Neo China every day to fruits/vegetables/chicken, etc. He will also burn a little bit of fat because he has so many fatty acids naturally circulating in his blood and stored visceral fat he just can't help but lose a few lbs of it easily.l

He's going to lose ~10 lbs in the first 2-3 weeks easily in most cases. At this point he will start thinking wow this is easy, I'm a bad ass, I'm going to look like a god in a month.

Then as his diet relaxes a little and his strength training routine starts to slip a little bit he will still be making strength gains but the scale won't be moving much. You hear people say all the time "well I didn't lose any weight the past three weeks but I've been lifting so I'm sure i've added a lot of muscle and dropped fat." The reality is his leptin levels have dropped so his metabolism has taken a hit, the water weight has found a balance based on his new routine, and the ADAPTIVE COMPONENT has set in which is basically your body's mechanism to keep your weight from dropping too much too fast.

Early on in strength training beginners gains will mostly be neural and very little actual size or LBM will be added. In the meantime because he is well over 15% body fat his fat cells are more than happy to absorb the fat in his diet. This is exactly what we mean by "spinning your wheels".

After a month of making essentially no progress he will cut the diet/strength training and within a mere 2-3 weeks the water weight will return, their will be little to no changes in muscle size/LBM, and the fat will return. Dieter ends up 3 lbs heavier than when they started the training program with no results to show for all his work.


This is exactly the opposite of how a beginner (and if you haven't been lifting consistently for 12 months let's go ahead and say you are a beginner) should get started.

When you are begining a body recomposition you should be focused on DIET and RESISTANCE TRAINING with MINIMAL LOW INTENSITY CARDIO. The first thing you should figure out is how am I going to get to 15% body fat?

That's easy. Don't eat so damn much. If you're over 15% body fat your diet should have realistically almost no fat in it (other than say 10g of fish oil because you need to give your body EFA's). Let's say you have 40 lbs of stored body fat. That's over fucking 140,000 calories worth of stored body fat. You can walk a mile on 100 calories, so if you walked to fucking Dallas, Texas as long as you took 10g fish oil and got 300g of protein everyday you'd never even feel hungry.

Carbs are a non-essential nutrient. Meaning you could go the rest of your life without eating a single carb. Now am I telling you not to eat a single carb? No. Eat like 10-20 a day that's fine. Your body would rather burn carbs than fat because it's a more efficient fuel source. So if you're flooding your body with 200g carb a day how the hell do you expect to burn 140,000 calories worth of stored body fat within the next couple months?

Eat fucking protein. If you really want to lose WEIGHT, easy cut out protein and start running a lot. You'll drop muscle fast as hell and within a few months you'll be dead from skeletal problems. Once you decompose you'll weigh almost nothing.

Look if you're eating protein and you're a beginner to weight training you will make significant neural strength gains in the first couple of months. There's no need to eat 3,000 calories a day or do 65 sets at the gym. Do a full body exercise twice a week with 10-15 sets and you'll be adding poundage and reps every workout even if all you're eating is 1,000 calories a day. That's just how this works.

Once you get under 15% bodyfat, then we can talk about adding muscle size and eating carbs and shit.



TL/DR.

1) Eat protein
2) Stop eating carbs
3) Stop eating fat (except EFA)
4) Lift weights 2-3x a week and go up in weight/reps every session
5) No more than 1,000 calories
6) Take vitamin supplements so you don't feel like shit


Take the easy strength gains and fat loss now while it's available to you. In a few months when you're not a fat ass anymore we can talk about how to gain muscle size.

2/12/2013 3:37:27 AM

lulz have you done this diet ^ more than 10 days? You will go insane. Could possibly work if you were doing refeeds and diet breaks about every 2 weeks.

2/12/2013 6:17:09 AM

yes you can do a refeed once a week. Personally, i drink more than once a week so i don't need a date set aside to refeed. Also, invariably there's always a super bowl party, night where you absolutely have to crush pita pit, whatever... so i dont map out the refeed it just happens and when it does no sweat off my sac.

But yes i've basically been following that diet for the past 3.5 weeks with some slipups (mostly alcohol). I'm not perfect, but I'm not exactly training to be on a magazine cover or whatever.

At this point it's looking like I will take my break next week for two weeks when i have a friend in from out of town. I'll eat around maintenance calories including heavy drinking everyday. Then I'll go back on this diet for another ~2-4 weeks so I can finish getting to 10%.

Yeah, it's been real and I'm suffering from a bit of diet fatigue, but I've increased from 3 to 8 pullups while dropping several percentage body fat. My lifts across the board are still up. Now when they start plateauing I'll know it's time to start eating again.

2/12/2013 6:30:12 AM

RIP GIRLFRIEND

2/12/2013 8:18:13 AM

Eh fuck it just bought some primatene (ephedrine), I wanna see what all the fuss is about.

And I'm really tired of dieting needed a boost Stephen I never made a slam dunk before

2/12/2013 9:48:40 AM

I can be your best friend or your worst enemy. You seem to prefer the latter.

2/12/2013 10:18:22 AM

^^ This is the prelude to the inevitable "I'm quitting this thread because I have nothing to prove to you people."

2/12/2013 10:23:13 AM

No way. I'm not doing this just to prove it to you guys anyway, but it helps a little with motivation. I like to feed off negativity and doubt.

And I see what the fuss is about. I love it already. Anything that resembles amphetamines is cool in my book.

2/12/2013 11:31:32 AM

Just do coke.

2/12/2013 11:35:21 AM

^see! acraw knows what's up

2/12/2013 11:40:32 AM

Way too expensive

2/12/2013 11:41:49 AM