Quote :

"However I still think our criminal justice system is broken when I can have an altercation with someone, kill them, and then face no charges because I'm the only one alive to tell the story (which I can totally bias in my favor)."

That is a symptom of the human race being broken, not the justice system. You can't charge someone without evidence, dude.

7/15/2013 1:07:02 PM

Quote :

"However I still think our criminal justice system is broken working as designed when I can have an altercation with someone be on the losing end of a one sided fight, kill them, and then face no charges because I'm the only one alive to tell the story (which I can totally bias in my favor) and because there is no evidence from either a police investigation or the phone calls to emergency services or the ear witnesses or even the one eye witness (who by the way backs me up) that things didn't happen the way that I say they did or at the very least if there is some evidence it is not enough to prove beyond a reasonable doubt and we have a legal system which requires that criminal charges be proved to such a standard"

FTFY


[Edited on July 15, 2013 at 1:17 PM. Reason : sdfg]

7/15/2013 1:13:24 PM

Justice was served. Our system isn't perfect, but it works pretty well. I love it.

Try being accused of something with ZERO evidence and disappearing from the face of the earth forever like my uncles did in Laos. Now that's injustice.

http://www.hmongtimes.com/main.asp?SectionID=31&SubSectionID=190&ArticleID=894

7/15/2013 2:08:36 PM

lol @ holder / DOJ

in the words of PAULA DEEN:

"good luck sonny boy"

7/15/2013 3:02:28 PM

What I find funny is that most of people defending the verdict are doing so by trying to accuse Martin of being guilty of ..... something? I mean hell, even Zimmerman's defense are doing all kinds of mental gymnastics defending their client's actions after the fact.

"Why didn't he just run away?" then later "Running away makes him look even more suspicious!".

Look, I get that the evidence was shoddy and from the looks of it, the case should have probably never gone to trial. But the only way you can conclude that "justice was served" in this case is if you actually believe that Martin deserved to get shot. Which IMO, would make you a huuuuuuuuuuuge racist. Like, Tim Tebow huge.

Also, it's Florida, so I'm not really surprised that some guy got away with stalking, ambushing, and shooting a black kid there.

[Edited on July 15, 2013 at 5:38 PM. Reason : :]

7/15/2013 5:36:12 PM

If it's true that he punched George Zimmerman in the face more than once and that he said, "you're going to die tonight", then what he did is classified as felony battery at least and probably attempted murder in most states.

That's why the argument that they "put Trayvon on trial" is complete bullshit. If someone is trying to argue that they used deadly force in self-defense, then it's really fucking important to demonstrate that the person you used deadly force against was actually trying to harm or kill you.

7/15/2013 5:58:53 PM

Quote :

"What I find funny is that most of people defending the verdict are doing so by trying to accuse Martin of being guilty of ..... something?"

huh? link?

edit: ^ahh, ok, if that is what he was getting at then....

Quote :

"I mean hell, even Zimmerman's defense are doing all kinds of mental gymnastics defending their client's actions after the fact."

the defense team was defending their client's actions?!

Quote :

"But the only way you can conclude that "justice was served" in this case is if you actually believe that Martin deserved to get shot. Which IMO, would make you a huuuuuuuuuuuge racist. Like, Tim Tebow huge."

Quote :

"justice |'j?stis| noun 1 just behavior or treatment : a concern for justice, peace, and genuine respect for people. - the quality of being fair and reasonable : the justice of his case. - the administration of the law or authority in maintaining this"

Zimmerman received a fair trial for his actions (which even you admit didn't necessitate a trial in the first place). Please explain how "justice" was not served. Then kindly explain how the acknowledgment that this trial proceeded in accordance with the laws of the state of Florida makes someone a racist.

[Edited on July 15, 2013 at 6:06 PM. Reason : .]

7/15/2013 6:04:03 PM

Quote :

"If it's true that he punched George Zimmerman in the face more than once and that he said, "you're going to die tonight", then what he did is classified as felony battery at least and probably attempted murder in most states."

Nope, not if Zimmerman instigated the fight. About the only conclusion you can come too is that Zimmerman is a horrible fighter. Although the fact that you went straight to accusing the dead kid of attempted murder is quite revealing of your character.

Quote :

"Please explain how "justice" was not served"

You said it yourself. "Justice" was served. Justice was not. I'm fine with people saying that technically, this is about the only way this could have turned out. But saying that everyone got what they deserved here makes you a racist.

[Edited on July 15, 2013 at 6:17 PM. Reason : :]

7/15/2013 6:13:56 PM

what the actual fuck does that mean?

you seem to think that "Justice being served" = someone found guilty.

not everyone that goes on trial is guilty of the crime they're accused of. you know that, right?

[Edited on July 15, 2013 at 6:17 PM. Reason : .]

7/15/2013 6:16:21 PM

Quote :

"You said it yourself. "Justice" was served. Justice was not. I'm fine with people saying that technically, this is about the only way this could have turned out. But saying that everyone got what they deserved here makes you a racist. "

i really hope this is just trolling.

7/15/2013 6:28:38 PM

Is it weird that TDub, is the most open and honest conversation I can find on this subject? [For the most part]

7/15/2013 6:44:16 PM

The Onion says it better than I ever could.

http://www.theonion.com/articles/zimmerman-found-not-guilty-technically-but-cmon,33124/

Quote :

"The highly anticipated verdict was announced late Saturday evening, when the jury’s foreman informed the dozens gathered in the packed courtroom that, in purely technical terms, mind you, Zimmerman had been cleared of wrongdoing, using her middle and forefingers on both hands to pantomime quotation marks while stating the words “not guilty.”"

7/15/2013 6:45:23 PM

Quote :

""Please explain how "justice" was not served""

Quote :

"You said it yourself. "Justice" was served. Justice was not. "

Quote :

"[THE ONION]"

I'm not sure I see your point. Are you saying that the judicial system worked as it was supposed to, but failed to actually accomplish justice?

7/15/2013 6:53:34 PM

yeah I'm not sure what's difficult to understand about that .our justice system is royally fucked.

7/15/2013 7:09:41 PM

how so?

given the facts of this case, how would you change our judicial system so that you could ensure GZ was somehow found to be a racist murderer?

[Edited on July 15, 2013 at 7:19 PM. Reason : /]

7/15/2013 7:17:25 PM

I find it to be the opposite. Justice was served. "Justice" (aka vigilantism) was not

7/15/2013 7:36:26 PM

^^We're getting into semantics here, justice vs judicial system, but in this particular case I would start with placing the burden of proof on Zimmerman to show a valid reason for leaving his car and pursuing Martin other than he "looked suspicious". This wasn't a home invasion and Martin wasn't threatening him in any way. By his own admission, he basically ignored direct instructions from a police dispatcher. That should have been enough right there to convict him of a serious crime. Maybe not "racist murderer", but the dude should at the very least had his gun rights taken out and given a lengthy jail sentence.

7/15/2013 8:00:52 PM

follow the directions of police dispatchers or have your constitutional rights stripped away

got it

7/15/2013 8:09:52 PM

"If it's true that he punched George Zimmerman in the face more than once and that he said, "you're going to die tonight", then what he did is classified as felony battery at least and probably attempted murder in most states."

Quote :

"Nope, not if Zimmerman instigated the fight. About the only conclusion you can come too is that Zimmerman is a horrible fighter. Although the fact that you went straight to accusing the dead kid of attempted murder is quite revealing of your character."

Yeah, that's not the law. It doesn't matter if Zimmerman instigated anything. What matters is who initiated the physical altercation and what happened afterwards.

I'm saying that if he punched George Zimmerman multiple times in the face and said "you're going to die tonight", then it was attempted murder. I wasn't there. But that's the story, and it's the only story that has been corroborated by an actual eye witness, so...

7/15/2013 8:09:54 PM

Quote :

"in this particular case I would start with placing the burden of proof on Zimmerman to show a valid reason for leaving his car and pursuing Martin other than he "looked suspicious". This wasn't a home invasion and Martin wasn't threatening him in any way."

there is nothing illegal about walking around your neighborhood. and the term "pursuit" implies zimmerman was trying to physically catch him. he was not. he was simply keeping an eye on where he was so he could relay it to the police. (again, not breaking any laws)

7/15/2013 8:15:43 PM

These people want a Ugandan tribal council to mutilate Zimmerman.

No nevermind such legal systems turn on you the very next day for no reason at all, but at least in the meantime we'll get him.

"Fuck this American trial/court/laws bullshit."

7/15/2013 8:20:58 PM

Quote :

"Yeah, that's not the law. It doesn't matter if Zimmerman instigated anything. What matters is who initiated the physical altercation and what happened afterwards. I'm saying that if he punched George Zimmerman multiple times in the face and said "you're going to die tonight", then it was attempted murder. I wasn't there. But that's the story, and it's the only story that has been corroborated by an actual eye witness, so...[.b]"

None of that was corroborated by an eyewitness other than Zimmerman might have been losing a fight. As to who initiated the physical altercation, all the evidence points to the dude with the gun who got out of his car to prowl after an unarmed kid.

Quote :

"there is nothing illegal about walking around your neighborhood. and the term "pursuit" implies zimmerman was trying to physically catch him. he was not. he was [b]simply keeping an eye on where he was so he could relay it to the police. (again, not breaking any laws)"

Which he was specifically instructed not to do. That's called endangering public safety/reckless endangerment, and since there was a gun involved, it should have been enough for some sort of felony conviction. Again, I agree that murder was likely an overreach by the prosecution, but Zimmerman should be in jail and stripped of his gun rights just the same.

[Edited on July 15, 2013 at 8:45 PM. Reason : :]

7/15/2013 8:42:20 PM

so you believe the instructions of a police dispatcher on a phone should carry force of law?

7/15/2013 8:48:56 PM

Quote :

"but Zimmerman should be in jail and stripped of his gun rights just the same."

why? he didn't do anything illegal.

7/15/2013 8:50:17 PM

in the future just allow your ass to be beat. maybe it wont be so bad.

especially consider how anything you might have done immediately prior might have been foolish.

actually in contemplating that thought and your own race you might hope to be seriously injured or killed.

you know, as long as you arent a racist vigilante or anything.

7/15/2013 8:57:12 PM

[Edited on July 15, 2013 at 9:03 PM. Reason : Not arguing with someone who clearly didn't watch the trial or see the evidence]

7/15/2013 8:59:01 PM

justice - "the maintenance or administration of what is just especially by the impartial adjustment of conflicting claims or the assignment of merited rewards or punishments" (Merriam Webster)

When I say "justice was served", I mean judicially. Where evidence is presented, debated, and rationally concluded. That's the closest to "true" justice we can get in this screwed up world of ours. Any other argument of "justice" is purely subjective.

Just be thankful we don't live in a society where they take people out in the streets and stone them without trial or stick them in secret prisons in the jungle. Y'all are just some ungrateful bastards. Our system is pretty much the best one on the planet. Tell me when you find a better one. Oh, and go ahead and move your sorry self there when you find it.

7/15/2013 9:28:04 PM

At best, what happened is the kind of false negative the system allows in steering clear of the more disastrous false positives (locking people up for crimes they didn't commit), but most likely it was the kind of travesty of justice that too often works against black people.

Remember, kids (not black kids lol), next time someone gives you trouble or just looks at you funny, you can pull a Zimmerman to make it all go away: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=zimmerman&defid=6546224

7/15/2013 9:36:33 PM

Quote :

"so you believe the instructions of a police dispatcher on a phone should carry force of law?"

It doesn't, of course, but they didn't even tell him to stop following - they say "we don't need you to do that" when he said he was going to keep an eye on him. They say that almost regardless of the situation.

7/15/2013 10:32:34 PM

It is literally impossible to follow these stories without getting pissed at humanity.

7/15/2013 10:45:01 PM

Humanity sucks a big fat dick and needs to eat a smallish comet asap.

7/15/2013 11:37:43 PM

^^^ exactly , that's CYA, liability shit on their part.

Not to mention that some fucking 911 operator's instructions have jack shit to do with anything, and they shouldn't.

[Edited on July 15, 2013 at 11:39 PM. Reason : ]

[Edited on July 15, 2013 at 11:42 PM. Reason : GZ isn't the witch hunter here. This whole thing is fucking disgraceful.]

7/15/2013 11:38:34 PM

Quote :

"Remember, kids (not black kids lol), next time someone gives you trouble or just looks at you funny, you can pull a Zimmerman to make it all go away"

I wouldn't recommend it. While he did beat the case this has not worked out well for him. I also doubt it will go away any time soon. Although it is fair to say things worked out worse for Martin.

7/16/2013 12:40:55 AM

Zimmerman will be just fine. He'll write a shitty book, go on Fox News, spout some herpy derpy shit about this all being a part of God's plan, and then be held up by the NRA as the model case for sound gun legislation.

7/16/2013 12:48:20 AM

i haven't read through the whole thread, but i did see one thing that i have heard many people say that is worth correcting.

it doesn't matter who instigated the confrontation in a certain sense.

when one is confronted with violence or the apprehension of violence, he is allowed the reasonable use of force in self defense. however, one is not allowed to use deadly force to repel non deadly force. thus, if i start pushing and shoving you, or punching you, you can use reasonable force in self defense. you could not pull out a gun and shoot me unless you were in fear for your life or i was using deadly force.

if one party instigates, the other party can use reasonable force in self defense, but if the other party escalates, and begins to use deadly force, then the instigating party regains the right to use self defense and can then use deadly force.

so if i begin pushing and punching you, but it is not deadly force, and you pull a knife, then i can shoot you in self defense. that is generally how the law views self defense. it seems unfair in one sense, but it makes sense when you think about the general logic.

regardless of who initiated the confrontation, if martin was considered to have escalated it before the gun was drawn and was using deadly force against zimmerman (i think that was the argument by saying he was getting his head slammed against the concrete) then he would have retaken the right of self defense and the use of deadly force.

7/16/2013 3:54:50 AM

Quote :

"so if i begin pushing and punching you, but it is not deadly force, and you pull a knife, then i can shoot you in self defense. that is generally how the law views self defense"

This may vary from state to state, but AFAIK, this is not the case in NC.

Besides, if you are instigating any confrontation, you've lost your rights to self defense. Reap what you sow. People need to be more responsible for their actions and we need to stop victimizing antagonizers. If you can't handle your own emotions and control your own body/decisions, then you should get what's coming to you. We are sentient beings. You have the ability and the opportunity to live life in control, unlike a cockroach that lives its life uncontrollable, reacting to its environment. So are you a cockroach that can't control yourself, or are you better than that and capable of above instincts and impulses. I say you (everyone) should ask yourselves this. Don't start no trouble, won't be no trouble.

[Edited on July 16, 2013 at 6:02 AM. Reason : .]

[Edited on July 16, 2013 at 6:04 AM. Reason : .]

7/16/2013 5:56:50 AM

Hits the nail on the head. http://themattwalshblog.com/2013/07/13/zimmerman-is-found-innocent-despite-the-best-efforts-of-a-mob-of-liars-and-crooks/

7/16/2013 6:20:39 AM

^ Misses the nail entirely, is devoid itself of facts, and contains its own race baiting.

Zimmerman has a far more verified history of violence and than Martin, was known for making moronic presumptions, a juror has said he should have stayed in his car -- which most people agree with, it's widely accepted the prosecution put up a poor showing, people were too focused on whose voice is whose to point out the screams don't fit Zimmermans story,
no reasonable person thinks Zimmerman did the right thing every step of the way, and not guilty isn't the same as innocent. Only fools and racists think Zimmerman is an untouched innocent hero. Not surprising you'd believe that though.

[Edited on July 16, 2013 at 7:08 AM. Reason : ]

7/16/2013 7:02:33 AM

^^^you're incorrect. it's standard criminal law. in the case of nc, look at nc gen. stat. 14-51.2, 3, and 4.

7/16/2013 7:50:13 AM

Quote :

"As to who initiated the physical altercation, all the evidence points to the dude with the gun who got out of his car to prowl after an unarmed kid. "

This really depends on how you define "initiating the physical altercation". If initiation is defined as following someone then you could argue that Zimmerman started the altercation, but that definition would be false. In actuality, all the evidence shows that Martin started the physical altercation by punching Zimmerman breaking his nose then getting on top of him and continuing to punch him/bash his head into the concrete. Martin had no injuries on his body other than the gunshot wound. Zimmerman had a broken nose and lacerations on the back of his head. These facts are documented.

7/16/2013 8:40:22 AM

Quote :

"If initiation is defined as following someone then you could argue that Zimmerman started the altercation, but that definition would be false. "

This is incorrect.

It can count as initiation if you instigate or incite someone to violence, which Zimmerman definitely did. THe problem is that he was still technically defending himself as the court decided.

7/16/2013 10:30:01 AM

I can't wait till I get to kill the next person I pick a fight with! It will be so great to face absolutely no penalties for my poor decision making.

7/16/2013 10:31:07 AM

Quote :

" In actuality, all the evidence shows that Martin started the physical altercation by punching Zimmerman ..."

lol, wut? What evidence is this? Or by 'all the evidence', do you mean 'Zimmermans account of that night'?

7/16/2013 10:34:31 AM

Quote :

"It will be so great to face absolutely no penalties for my poor decision making."

plenty of penalties:

losing 1.5 years of your life tied up in the legal system
debt incurred by legal fees
having to basically hide for the rest of your life

7/16/2013 10:42:41 AM

That's so much worse than death!

7/16/2013 10:43:53 AM

I still don't see how anyone can listen to the 911 call and believe Zimmerman's story that he was in a struggle for his life.

He got up and walked away the same night.

I'm guessing he panicked and shot trayvon, and being as versed as he is in the legal system (dad's a judge, took wannabe cop classes), he knew his best option was to play the fool.

Funny how trusting people are of a murderer's account of a murder, but sadly that's all the court had to go on.

7/16/2013 10:56:59 AM

Was there ever even any physical evidence presented that proved Zimmerman's head wounds were caused by Martin's fists? AFAIK he refused to go to the hospital to be treated/examined.

Not that I really doubt that part of the story. It's pretty clear what happened here is Zimmerman jumped the kid thinking he was some kind of perp, and then got the shit kicked out of him because he's an obese unathletic fuck who couldn't fight.

I honestly don't give a shit about Zimmerman. Jail or no jail, he's going the spend the rest of his life looking over his shoulder, will probably get sued in civil court, and end up turning to crime to pay his bills just like OJ. The problem here is the precedent it sets. When an adult can stalk, ambush and kill an unarmed minor who was literally doing nothing wrong yet face no legal consequences, that's a problem for society as a whole. Or at least Florida. Seriously, fuck Florida.

[Edited on July 16, 2013 at 11:43 AM. Reason : :]

7/16/2013 11:32:00 AM

Quote :

"Not that I really doubt that part of the story. It's pretty clear what happened here is Zimmerman jumped the kid thinking he was some kind of perp, and then got the shit kicked out of him because he's an obese unathletic fuck who couldn't fight. "

Yeah, pretty clear. So clear that the state prosecution didn't even sniff proving it.

Maybe they should have called you as an expert witness, encyclopedia brown.

[Edited on July 16, 2013 at 11:46 AM. Reason : .]

7/16/2013 11:45:41 AM

http://www.wral.com/zimmerman-protesters-raid-la-store-stop-freeway/12667841/

7/16/2013 11:47:48 AM

Quote :

"Yeah, pretty clear. So clear that the state prosecution didn't even sniff proving it."

because there's no way to prove it?

7/16/2013 11:48:10 AM