^^^Don't envy being put in that officer's shoes, tough situation. Def looks like a good shoot.

[Edited on May 8, 2014 at 10:24 PM. Reason : 0]

5/8/2014 10:24:09 PM

Quote :

"http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=news/local&id=9530538 Police shoot and kill a mentally ill man. Family releases a video to the media. Watch the video and judge for yourself. The link has a video but it's poorly rendered. Here's a better video: http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=c74_1399580183 [Edited on May 8, 2014 at 4:54 PM. Reason : linky] "

nobody wanted that to happen but in that situation the officers did every thing they could to prevent it. sad situation all around, and you could tell the officer who shot him hated the fact that he had to... but he did for the protection of everyone around, including himself.

5/8/2014 10:30:10 PM

What does "good shoot" mean, and how the fuck is shooting 11 bullets at a man who was on the ground after the first in any way good? I mean he was literally standing there shooting the same spot. What the fuck is that?

[Edited on May 8, 2014 at 10:40 PM. Reason : .]

5/8/2014 10:34:33 PM

5/8/2014 10:47:20 PM

I don't disagree that shooting him was necessary, just that emptying your clip on a guy on the ground isn't, and the cops here praising that are shit-heads if that's indeed what they're doing.

5/8/2014 10:57:31 PM

when the time comes to shoot someone, you shoot to kill.

5/8/2014 11:19:27 PM

If justified deadly force is warranted, it cannot be excessive. Ever. Period. Dead is dead.

Many factors come into play as to why so many shots were fired; it takes time to process the fact that the threat is over, training, maybe we don't see everything that is going on with the victim, etc.

5/9/2014 6:56:29 AM

Wow. Just wow.

[Edited on May 9, 2014 at 9:38 AM. Reason : itt and in the police thread in chit-chat, my stereotypes of cops are being reinforced]

5/9/2014 9:20:10 AM

Quote :

"just that emptying your clip on a guy on the ground isn't, and the cops here praising that are shit-heads if that's indeed what they're doing."

I don't see where anyone is praising the officer for the number of rounds he fired, simply that the actions he took were justified. It was a terrible situation to be in for all parties involved. As has already been mentioned, there are many legitimate reasons to explain why the officer fired as many rounds as he did.

[Edited on May 9, 2014 at 9:41 AM. Reason : ^ how's that? Restricted provides very cogent explanation based in legal doctrine]

5/9/2014 9:40:05 AM

Quote :

"there are many legitimate reasons to explain why the officer fired as many rounds as he did."

Sorry, I just don't see any legitimate reason to shoot a guy around a dozen times when he's on the ground a few feet away from you (good shot??), especially if he doesn't even have a firearm. If it takes you a dozen shots at point blank range before you can process the fact that the threat is over in that situation, then i don't think you should be a cop.

[Edited on May 9, 2014 at 9:55 AM. Reason : ]

5/9/2014 9:51:25 AM

Here's my take/rant on the situation:

If you don't want your family members shot dead, don't call the police. It's like taking your car to a shady mechanic, they don't want to just change your oil, they want to sell you the whole package. It's part of their business practice. They don't care about you or your problems, they're watching their own backs.

From the start of the video, it took them about a minute to kick open the door. Less than 30 seconds to tase him and another minute or two of unorganized chaos before unloading a whole clip on a guy stumbling out of a tub because he's lost his motor functions after being electrocuted. The whole sequence ended quicker than a Jiffy Lube oil change.

And if he was attacking them, it was because they provoked it. Doesn't matter if it's a human or an animal, you back it into a corner, prod and poke it, and it will attack.

Gone are the days of firemen saving cats out of trees. These days, they'll just shoot it down and hand it to you in a body bag.

5/9/2014 9:53:08 AM

but guys, he was trying to harm himself!

5/9/2014 9:57:02 AM

My problem with that point of view is that it lacks perspective.
How many people interacted with the police and did not get killed by them in the past year?

5/9/2014 9:57:46 AM

how many people were killed by police last year?

5/9/2014 9:59:48 AM

^^true, i know that a lot of cops wouldn't have reacted the same way as that cop did. but we're talking about this situation, and the people who are justifying this cop's actions.

[Edited on May 9, 2014 at 10:11 AM. Reason : V OK, i hear you.]

5/9/2014 10:05:00 AM

I was just responding to this:

Quote :

"If you don't want your family members shot dead, don't call the police."

5/9/2014 10:10:22 AM

^ To be more clear, "If you don't want your mentally ill family members shot dead, don't call the police"

5/9/2014 10:12:55 AM

Quote :

"A 17-year-old was killed after a confounding police encounter during which the cops slammed him on the ground, shattered his ribs, pepper-sprayed him and shoved a sharp object down his throat, according to his family’s lawsuit."

http://dailycaller.com/2014/05/07/lawsuit-cops-violent-drug-sting-resulted-in-teens-death/

5/10/2014 4:33:13 AM

http://www.thepcmdgazette.com/news/miami-police-kill-2-unarmed-suspects-by-shooting-disabled-car-377-times/

Cue the cops here calling this a "good shoot."

Restricted- "If justified deadly force is warranted, it cannot be excessive. Ever. Period."


[Edited on May 14, 2014 at 5:25 PM. Reason : .]

5/14/2014 5:22:57 PM

Quote :

"http://www.thepcmdgazette.com/news/carzak-noobs-all-over-himself-trying-to-post-a-hyperlink/"

5/14/2014 5:27:24 PM

That is a true quote.

5/14/2014 5:30:35 PM

I looked up the "innocent" guy that was riding in the car. Guys record tells me he was a dumbass too.

I am not saying he did anything to deserve being shot that day, but stupidity can kill, he was stupid enough to ride around with his buddy in a stolen car right after he shot a cop and robbed somebody.

5/14/2014 5:34:12 PM

^^So you cool with using a bazooka to kill someone? Would you argue against these being equipped to police officers if they one day were? I mean fuck collateral damage, just spray and pray.

[Edited on May 14, 2014 at 5:41 PM. Reason : .]

5/14/2014 5:36:06 PM

That quote doesn't have anything to do with collateral damage. If it's just to shoot someone once it's just to shoot them until you are out of bullets.


The issue is about shootings when they are not just, or when cops are the ones who escalated actions to make it just.

5/14/2014 6:05:48 PM

Quote :

"So you cool with using a bazooka to kill someone?"

If for some reason I was faced with a lethal force encounter and somehow or way I just happened to be equipped with a bazooka and it was the most effective tool to accomplish the task then yes.

Quote :

"Would you argue against these being equipped to police officers if they one day were?"

Yes I would.

I'm a citizen just like you, but my chosen profession is law enforcement. I believe that police are citizens policing citizens. I believe that they are a lot of mouth breathing, turds in this profession, but on the other hand, some of the most gifted and caring. I believe in the Peelian Principles (thought I take exception with #6), just as much as I believe being polite, professional and prepared to kill everyone you meet. You might find me reading a book by Grossman at the same time checking Balko’s blog. I get angered when I read about misconduct and bad shootings, but I also know what it’s like to have my name dragged through the paper without a shred of evidence. I believe that some aspects of law enforcement are too militaristic, but I’ve served on a SWAT team that was well principled. I believe that marijuana should be legalized, but until then, it’s my job to enforce because they problems that stem from its illegal sale and distribution are still present. Most importantly, I believe there are two sides to every story, no matter what.

5/14/2014 6:17:42 PM

^^But if you think any amount of force is necessary, or is not excessive to kill someone, then by extension any unintended consequence of that force is irrelevant. It is not okay to just shoot until you run out of bullets; you shoot until the threat is eliminated. There is a point where it becomes absurd and unnecessary and there is a high likelihood of stray bullets injuring or killing someone. Like the shooting in the article.

[Edited on May 14, 2014 at 6:20 PM. Reason : ^]

5/14/2014 6:20:07 PM

That article and what I said about deadly force are not the same thing. On one hand you have a situation where cops just unloaded on a car. Did they fire a ton of rounds? Yes. Was it justified? No clue. If it was justified, was it excessive? No, because it can't be.

That being said, if you are authorized to use deadly force, it can't be excessive. Case law says so. So if I can shoot you, I can stab you instead or run you over with a truck. Stupid? Yes. Can you get in trouble for collateral damage? Yes.

No its not the point to just unload till you run dry. You shoot to stop the threat. Part of being a good officer is seeing this and changing tactics. In my situation, I went from non deadly force, to deadly and back to non. But, the worst question I faced from the investigating agency was what was behind my target? I couldn't tell em.

5/14/2014 6:30:07 PM

Quote :

"If for some reason I was faced with a lethal force encounter and somehow or way I just happened to be equipped with a bazooka and it was the most effective tool to accomplish the task then yes. "

What possible scenario can you imagine a police officer needing to use a bazooka, or it being the "most effective" tool? See the problem is that because it has been given to you, you will find a use for it. You get tired of having these drawn out stand-offs, and a rocket into the building will end it quickly. If you miss and demolish a home blocks away, well that's a damn shame for everyone.

Quote :

"That being said, if you are authorized to use deadly force, it can't be excessive. Case law says so. "

The law is one thing, but I'm clearly talking about in practical terms.

Also thanks for having reasonable responses to my sometimes inflammatory comments. I let my emotions get the best of me sometimes when it comes to this issue.

5/14/2014 6:50:02 PM

Quote :

"What possible scenario can you imagine a police officer needing to use a bazooka, or it being the "most effective" tool?"

Beslan type situation. That being said, I couldn't imagine a day when officers will need to be equipped with a bazooka nor wouldn't I want to be a part of such a nightmare.

5/14/2014 7:16:28 PM

Quote :

" then by extension any unintended consequence of that force is irrelevant."

no, that leap is not true. if it's moral to kill you for some reason that doesn't mean its moral to drop a bomb and level a city and kill innocent people too. collateral damage matters.

5/14/2014 7:35:46 PM

Fairly impressive

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2014/06/how-florida-cops-went-door-to-door-with-fake-cell-device-to-find-one-man/

6/4/2014 9:48:46 PM

http://www.theonion.com/articles/new-law-enforcement-robot-can-wield-excessive-forc,36220/

The onion always nails this shit. Love it.

[Edited on June 9, 2014 at 5:53 PM. Reason : sfsdf]

6/9/2014 5:50:55 PM

A 17 year-old kid becomes the latest victim of "child pornography" laws. And get this: Police want to photograph his erect penis.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/local/wp/2014/07/09/in-sexting-case-manassas-city-police-want-to-photograph-teen-in-sexually-explicit-manner-lawyers-say/

[Edited on July 9, 2014 at 7:10 PM. Reason : .]

7/9/2014 7:09:07 PM

Restricted said:

Quote :

"Beslan type situation. That being said, I couldn't imagine a day when officers will need to be equipped with a bazooka nor wouldn't I want to be a part of such a nightmare."

I realize this was two months ago, but can we all marvel for a second about how this dude is a cop who thinks that a bazooka is an effective tool to use in a hostage situation at a school? And he specifically called out a situation in which nearly 200 children died and in which militarized police used flamethrowers and grenade launchers? What the actual fuck?

7/15/2014 1:44:12 PM

also some of the children died specifically from RPGs fired on the school from outside (i.e. he cited an example where the police used a bazooka-equivalent and killed child hostages with it)

7/15/2014 2:44:52 PM

Interesting. I didn't know enough about that situation to say anything.

7/15/2014 5:40:08 PM

http://bullcitybulletin.com/2014/07/17/bull-city-police-state-update/

7/18/2014 11:42:49 AM

Quit smamming that shit everywhere wacko

7/18/2014 12:01:07 PM

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2014/07/18/3461537/federal-judge-blasts-atf-for-luring-man-with-no-criminal-record-into-trafficking-cocaine/

7/18/2014 3:36:05 PM

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/staten-island-man-dies-puts-choke-hold-article-1.1871486

Just choking a guy to death in the middle of the street. No big deal.

http://reason.com/blog/2014/07/17/cop-shoots-17-year-old-boy-who-answers-d

Ho hum, just another day at the office. Fortunately the brave officer made it home safely that day.

7/18/2014 6:45:17 PM

^ so when will the american people rise up?

i guess when the majority of people are comfortable, they won't rise up. and really, we are talking about the world's richest country here.

if it was a poor country, the level of police brutality seen in the past few years could have easily precipitated some kind of violent (or non-violent) movement to overthrow the law enforcement agencies, if not the government.

7/20/2014 9:13:42 PM

If it were a poor country, cops wouldn't ever draw their guns, they'd just take their bribe and leave.

7/21/2014 12:56:47 AM

http://reason.com/24-7/2014/07/21/waste-of-money-tsa-security-fee-doubles

I'm sure we'll see a lot of value added from this more than doubling of this fee. I can't wait to see how pleasant my next interaction with TSA will be. I'm sure they're paying more and being more discerning with their hiring as a result of charging everyone even more to be harassed, annoyed, and talked down to.

7/21/2014 8:41:43 PM

Cops online defending using despicable language the actions of the cops who killed the big black guy in NY.

http://m.mic.com/articles/94752/the-disgusting-things-cops-are-saying-about-the-new-york-man-police-choked-to-death

7/23/2014 12:35:41 AM

Bill allowing NCDOT to begin using traffic cameras on the interstate:

http://www.ncleg.net/gascripts/BillLookUp/BillLookUp.pl?Session=2013&BillID=h348

Appears to have been sent to the Senate Rules Committee so unlikely to have a final vote this session, but one to keep an eye on in the future.

7/23/2014 6:14:58 AM

i didn't know that the NCDOT wasn't already able to use traffic cams on roads that are not state maintained

7/23/2014 8:24:23 AM

Sorry, didn't mean use interstate, ^ you're correct.

7/23/2014 8:49:27 AM

I'm not sure I understand what's bad about this bill.

7/23/2014 8:52:30 AM

I'm not commenting on the merits of the bill, but it is a local issue and relevant to this thread.

7/23/2014 9:25:10 AM

i guess what I was trying to say is that I don't think traffic cameras are a police state, unless I'm misunderstanding the bill and it is to allow CCTV surveillance of other areas

7/23/2014 9:26:44 AM