^i more or less feel the same way. next year SHOULD be a big improvement over this year.

3/24/2010 10:10:38 AM

i honestly think brown is going to be more of an impact next year than harrow. not to say that it won't be awesome to have harrow around.

3/24/2010 10:32:28 AM

The haters were wrong all year and they are carrying their wrongness into the offseason.

Quote :

"You ether win or lose. An almost win is still a loss. Not sure what you're trying to say but my head hurt reading that."

This is blatantly incorrect. It DOES matter how you play in a loss. We were losing games to tough teams by close margins.

That meant we were not miles away from being a tournament team like the haters argued.

It meant with slight improvement next year we were a tournament team.

It meant that there was no reason to bitch and moan and complain and spew bullshit in this thread.

It meant you should have had a positive outlook for the future.


WE WERE TURNING THE GODDAM PROGRAM AROUND RIGHT IN FRONT OF YOUR FUCKING FACE AND ALL YOU COULD SAY WAS "FIRE SID HE WILL NEVER GET IT DONE"

Do you see how stupid that sounds? As things were improving rapidly you still kept bitching and pointing to losses in black and white.

ITS NOT FUCKING BLACK AND WHITE. WE ARE TURNING THE PROGRAM AROUND WITH SID AT THE HELM. HE DESERVES CREDIT FOR THAT. WHY IS THIS SO HARD?

3/24/2010 6:07:20 PM

Just putting this out there... after the UAB game Sid seemed to really have something worrying him... he hinted that there were problems coming into the game (really not sure if it was specifically player issues or something that happened), but this would account for the lack of performance, effort during the game. So take that game with a grain of salt.

3/24/2010 6:53:20 PM

Rally, you quoted me so I assume you're addressing your rant my way. You can make up straw-men arguments all you want but I was right from the beginning. Here is what I wrote in Dec:

Quote :

"Talent-wise, each of his teams should be able to compete night in and night out with every team in the ACC except Duke and UNC (and maybe Wake or Clempson on the road). A team full of 3*s with an occasional 4 or 5 * should be a middle of the road ACC team. We haven't finished ahead of 10th since he's been here."

In the last 10 games (minus the UAB debacle) Sid had this team performing as they should have been all year. Thank you Sid for proving me right. Just wish he would have had the team playing this way from the start.

3/24/2010 8:01:49 PM

dude, you can't just flip a switch and have things go your way

you can't be serious with this

3/24/2010 10:29:12 PM

When we were 2-10 in the ACC, a lot of guys on here put all the blame on the players. "They aren't good enough to win in the ACC" was the common response. I called bullshit. These guys aren't going to win the ACC but they can at least compete night in and night out, win a few here and there, and finish in the middle of the pack in the ACC. And good coaches get the most potential out of the players he has.

I give Sidney the credit for turning this disaster of a season into only a horrible one.

3/24/2010 10:58:18 PM

^i think they all just want you to shut the fuck up because we've got some momentum and we're bringing in a new backcourt next year. jesus christ, if you expect to compete every night with javi,farnold and mays in the backcourt you're not seeing things clearly. stop being such a hater.

3/24/2010 11:13:51 PM

with the tournament expansion, making the tournament next year is almost certain. So is sid's requirement next year still to simply MAKE the tournament?

3/25/2010 1:39:18 AM

Quote :

"This is blatantly incorrect. It DOES matter how you play in a loss. We were losing games to tough teams by close margins. That meant we were not miles away from being a tournament team like the haters argued. It meant with slight improvement next year we were a tournament team. It meant that there was no reason to bitch and moan and complain and spew bullshit in this thread. It meant you should have had a positive outlook for the future. "

I have a positive outlook.

But if things don't click next year, the almost wins are still just L's.

and there is no asterisk for moral victories.

Just L's.

62 of them so far.

There's no reason to scold people for being skeptical. They have as much reason to be skeptical as you have to be excited. Case in point: The baffling UAB game. Although I fall into the "excited" column.

bad nfl teams are always highlighted as OH MAN 7 OF THEIR LOSSES WERE BY 5 POINTS OR LESS!!

great.

[Edited on March 25, 2010 at 2:06 AM. Reason : .]

3/25/2010 1:53:03 AM

Quote :

"A team full of 3*s with an occasional 4 or 5 * should be a middle of the road ACC team."

I don't follow recruiting at other schools, but couldn't a fan of most D-1 schools make the same argument about their team? Aren't most D1 teams comprised of of mostly 3*s, with an occasional 4 or 5*?

3/25/2010 9:19:49 AM

Quote :

"When we were 2-10 in the ACC, a lot of guys on here put all the blame on the players. "They aren't good enough to win in the ACC" was the common response. I called bullshit. These guys aren't going to win the ACC but they can at least compete night in and night out, win a few here and there, and finish in the middle of the pack in the ACC. And good coaches get the most potential out of the players he has. I give Sidney the credit for turning this disaster of a season into only a horrible one."

Fattony your argument has already been discredited. I explained very clearly my argument to which you had no coherent response (ignoring isn't a response FYI) therefore your argument about the basketball team suddenly "getting it" is a poor one and needs to be abandoned. At least boozie and Donbeebe/ Ohboyeeeee had the grace to disappear for a couple pages before reiterating the same ignorant garbage..

3/25/2010 11:48:01 PM

My god adder you are still arguing that we didn't play better the last 10 games? GTFO

Quote :

"ITS NOT FUCKING BLACK AND WHITE. WE ARE TURNING THE PROGRAM AROUND WITH SID AT THE HELM. HE DESERVES CREDIT FOR THAT. WHY IS THIS SO HARD?"

I love your newfound optimism but he hasn't turned anything around yet. We made the NIT in year one. Nothing the next two and the NIT this year. Don't crown him until he's done something. When your best coaching season results in a second round asskicking in the NIT, I don't think you've turned anything around. It's make or break next year nobody gives a fuck about close losses.

3/26/2010 1:07:50 AM

Boozie I guess I gave you too much credit. I defended my opinions clearly and you/ fat had no response. Let me explain AGAIN, waiting a page and posting the same idiotic crap is NOT a response. The credibility thread died because of that behavior. I am not going to repeat myself over and over in this thread because you have the memory of a crack addled chicken. Suffice it to say your arguments were sufficiently addressed in the last page and you had/ have NO RESPONSE.

3/26/2010 8:19:40 AM

I don't think you're going to get many people to agree with you adder. This team showed a lot of improvement over the last 10 games (- UAB). Their defense was much better (I think 14 points per game better). They played mentally tough, winning several games late including the USF game. Javi played much better (I think he averaged 10+ points in the last 7 ACC games). And match-ups are all about playing to your strengths and exposing the other teams weaknesses. Something we hadn't done well when we were 2-10 in the ACC.

You're trying to cover your ass. Which I understand b/c the team winning made you look like an idiot for hating on the players all year.

If the 'Lowe haters' can give him credit for turning the season around, why can you give the players some credit for improving?

3/26/2010 9:55:18 AM

right, no one is giving the players any credit

you're a pretty lame troll

[Edited on March 26, 2010 at 10:35 AM. Reason : weren't you the idiot arguing that lowe hadn't developed the players any in their time at state? ]

3/26/2010 10:34:57 AM

so the question is before the season began did everyone (the fans and media) think we would be last place in the ACC because...

A) we have good players that Sidney Lowe will make a mess of...

or

B) we have very little talent that even a decent coach like Sidney can't help?

3/26/2010 10:42:23 AM

C) We are NC State.

Quote :

"A team full of 3*s with an occasional 4 or 5 * should be a middle of the road ACC team. We haven't finished ahead of 10th since he's been here.""

We were tied for ninth this past season.

[Edited on March 26, 2010 at 10:49 AM. Reason : ]

3/26/2010 10:47:00 AM

^Didn't we really finish 11th? We couldn't have been tied with UNC since they beat us twice.

3/26/2010 10:52:42 AM

Tied for 9th is bullshit

We were the 11th seed, thus, we finished 11th

3/26/2010 10:55:53 AM

^^^ and that quote was from the beginning of the season.

3/26/2010 11:02:18 AM

Quote :

"so the question is before the season began did everyone (the fans and media) think we would be last place in the ACC because... A) we have good players that Sidney Lowe will make a mess of... or B) we have very little talent that even a decent coach like Sidney can't help?"

I think the answer was:

C) we have very little talent (all Sidney's recruits) and a coach that hasn't shown he can develop players and win games.

3/26/2010 11:06:10 AM

thanks for the corrections. we were tied for ninth.

3/26/2010 11:07:33 AM

Quote :

"right, no one is giving the players any credit you're a pretty lame troll [Edited on March 26, 2010 at 10:35 AM. Reason : weren't you the idiot arguing that lowe hadn't developed the players any in their time at state? ] "

Look, I'm trying to give Sid credit. He proved me wrong. He was able to develop this team in to a competitive team. Like I was saying all along, this team can compete in the ACC.

Now, I'm just waiting for all those guys who said this group of players (PGs in particular plus Horner) aren't talented enough to win in the ACC. They were also wrong.

3/26/2010 11:11:02 AM

Quote :

"we have very little talent (all Sidney's recruits) and a coach that hasn't shown he can develop players and win games."

we have talent, it's just that most of its still young (all sid's recruits). we've been through the whole "develop players" thing, tracy and javi developed nicely. no, javi still isn't an above average ACC guard, but he's shown marked improvement from season to season. don't you agree? we won 6 of our last 9 games, against decent opponents, and i know it means nothing, but close losses are better than blow-outs.

Quote :

"Now, I'm just waiting for all those guys who said this group of players (PGs in particular plus Horner) aren't talented enough to win in the ACC. They were also wrong."

what are you talking about. not trying to throw him under the bus, and i know he had some good games, but javi just isn't that talented. hard to beleive you're arguing that he is.



[Edited on March 26, 2010 at 11:41 AM. Reason : nm, hater]

3/26/2010 11:38:41 AM

At this point, there is really no use complaining about Lowe. I've done my fair share but I was encouraged by the end of the season (though I still have some criticisms that I'll keep to myself)...

Pretty much everyone is of the consensus that next year is make or break. I'll leave it at that. Nothing really much to discuss anymore.

3/26/2010 11:42:32 AM

You SHOULD have criticism, we fucking have sucked a lot of cock over the last 4 seasons. I do, but as you see yourself, its not worth bitching about it and trying to get him fired, because 1) there are definitely some things to like about the direction we're heading and 2) not all of the shit we've been through the last few years is on Sid.

I think thats the whole beef we have with the Lowe haters. Its not that I think he's Phil Jackson, I just want to give him more time before we make a decision that will put us in worse shape than we are currently in.

3/26/2010 12:33:21 PM

Why are you guys freaking out.

Next year we turn it all around. We will make it deep in the NCAA, we'll be the Kentucky of this year.

2011 NCState is 2010 Kentucky***

Ryan Harrow staring as John Wall
Lorenzo Brown as Eric Bledsoe
Tracy Smith staring as Patrick Paterson
CJ Leslie(or some shitty last minute 3 star recruit) as Demarcus Cousins



Or maybe we just go like 7-9....(progress?)

3/26/2010 12:45:16 PM

i can't wait til everyones expectations are RIDICULOUSLY HIGH next season

picking us top 3 in the ACC or some shit, this is gonna be a debacle. we'll be a lot better i think, but this is all going to end in disaster.

that being said

3/26/2010 12:50:38 PM

Quote :

"i can't wait til everyones expectations are RIDICULOUSLY HIGH next season"

i know there are those who think NC State should be competing for the national title every year, but hopefully most people have realistic expectations.

3/26/2010 1:37:52 PM

Let's go NCCAT Finals!!!

3/26/2010 2:37:27 PM

Quote :

"with the tournament expansion, making the tournament next year is almost certain. So is sid's requirement next year still to simply MAKE the tournament?"

3/26/2010 2:57:08 PM

shaddup alias

3/26/2010 3:02:21 PM

if he pulls a paul hewitt next year and lorenzo brown goes pro he should be fired

3/26/2010 3:08:59 PM

rallydurham

Quote :

"We completely overwhelmed Duke for god's sake who is arguably the best team in the country."

Responses:

Quote :

"There is no argument here. Anyone that watches basketball can tell you Duke is not the best team in the country. Hell, they may not even be the best team in their conference."

Quote :

"When did rally become a troll??"

Quote :

"lol at Duke being arguably the best team in the country you could argue they're not even the best team in the conference"

I should charge you guys a fee to read my posts.

[Edited on March 28, 2010 at 11:45 PM. Reason : a]

3/28/2010 11:45:17 PM

Rally is a golden god!

3/29/2010 10:42:05 AM

Quote :

"I don't think you're going to get many people to agree with you adder. This team showed a lot of improvement over the last 10 games (- UAB). Their defense was much better (I think 14 points per game better). They played mentally tough, winning several games late including the USF game. Javi played much better (I think he averaged 10+ points in the last 7 ACC games). And match-ups are all about playing to your strengths and exposing the other teams weaknesses. Something we hadn't done well when we were 2-10 in the ACC. You're trying to cover your ass. Which I understand b/c the team winning made you look like an idiot for hating on the players all year. If the 'Lowe haters' can give him credit for turning the season around, why can you give the players some credit for improving?"

Again I will give you SPECIFIC reasons: TWO of our best wins were early in the season (Duke and @FSU). We had one really unexpected win during this mythical stretch of "getting it" and that was the Clemson game. However we had multiple games that reinforce the argument that we were basically the same team we were earlier in the year:Mary, VT, GT, FSU (remember we destroyed them at their house then we barely survived against them on neutral court).
If you can refute my logic go for it. So far you haven't so I am assuming that you are incapable and are going to continue restating the same idiotic crap about us having ACC caliber guards that were just improperly coached for most of the year

3/30/2010 8:28:53 AM

^Since you can't read:

Quote :

"I don't think you're going to get many people to agree with you adder. This team showed a lot of improvement over the last 10 games (- UAB). Their defense was much better (I think 14 points per game better). They played mentally tough, winning several games late including the USF game. Javi played much better (I think he averaged 10+ points in the last 7 ACC games). And match-ups are all about playing to your strengths and exposing the other teams weaknesses. Something we hadn't done well when we were 2-10 in the ACC. You're trying to cover your ass. Which I understand b/c the team winning made you look like an idiot for hating on the players all year. If the 'Lowe haters' can give him credit for turning the season around, why can you give the players some credit for improving?"

3/30/2010 8:41:29 AM

Quote :

"However we had multiple games that reinforce the argument that we were basically the same team we were earlier in the year:Mary, VT, GT, FSU (remember we destroyed them at their house then we barely survived against them on neutral court)."

Kidding, right? You're going to use a win over an NCAA team to show how we still sucked? Even if we "barely survived" we still beat them in the ACC tournament.

And the other 3 games were all much closer than they were earlier in the year.

3/30/2010 9:04:42 AM

I don't mean to imply that our team was terrible this year. We had some very impressive wins this year and overall this team surpassed my expectations. My expectations were (reasonably) low because we had very little talent at the guard position. I do baulk at the idea that we were suddenly a different team at the end of the year. FSU: We already beat them soundly this year on their home court so I think it is safe to assume that we matched up well against them I also think you shouldn't be surprised beating a team in a neutral site when you have already destroyed them on their home floor. Maryland and VT were still very substantial losses and it didn't really feel like we had a chance to win them. GT was a one possession game with us having a chance to win it at the end in both cases so pretty much the same result. So yeah we were the same damn team.
^^ Thanks for proving my point. You had no specific response to my points so you just repeated yourself. What a dumbfuck. Because you didn't stfu I will continue to destroy your arguments and humiliate you. If you actually take the time to analyze stats: Javi had one excellent game against Miami where he scored 19. Against Maryland and VT he scored a TOTAL of 2 points and had 2 assists and 2 turnovers (to me that sounds like a less talented guard getting destroyed by more talented guards but what do I know?) So yeah he might have averaged ten points a game during the last stretch.When he played talented guards who were bigger/ stronger/ faster than he was he sucked and we lost the game. Guess what that is THE SAME THING THAT HAPPENED ALL YEAR.
As to the better defense: DID YOU NOTICE WE FAILED TO SCORE 60 points in our last 4 games.
To me that sounds like the patented herb sendek kill the clock to keep the other team from scoring and inflate defensive statistics. We slowed tempo and played some teams who were shitty (BC, Miami) so of course our defense is going to look better. When we played a team with competent guard play we got shredded for over 70 pts.
[Edited on March 30, 2010 at 8:12 PM. Reason : adsfasdf]

[Edited on March 30, 2010 at 8:16 PM. Reason : asdfsdf]

3/30/2010 8:11:54 PM

take it down a notch

3/30/2010 8:18:31 PM

you guys love to dodge the tough questions

Quote :

""with the tournament expansion, making the tournament next year is almost certain. So is sid's requirement next year still to simply MAKE the tournament?""

3/30/2010 9:15:58 PM

Quote :

"Now, I'm just waiting for all those guys who said this group of players (PGs in particular plus Horner) aren't talented enough to win in the ACC. They were also wrong."

huh?

3/30/2010 9:25:02 PM

so much fail on the last couple of pages of this thread, its making my head hurt

You can bitch and moan all you want, and make arguments back and forth about how bad of a coaching job Lowe has done - its not going to change anything. the bottom line for everyone is: quit worrying about this year, temper your expectations for next year, and rest assured that Sidney will be out the door if we dont at least finish in the top half of the ACC. We WILL be a better team next year, and probably for the next few years as Harrow and Brown play together (I highly doubt either of them will be leaving after a year or two).

3/30/2010 9:36:19 PM

some of us enjoy arguing about sports

i'd rather read 1000 more pages of circular arguments than 1 more post where someone tells us we should just stop talking about it b/c it wont change anything. we get it. this isnt a democracy. now go away and let us argue.

3/30/2010 9:39:49 PM

Quote :

"and rest assured that Sidney will be out the door if we dont at least finish in the top half of the ACC"

What the hell makes you think such a thing?

And is anyone else annoyed by RallyDurham's auto fellatio in this thread? Yay, you reiterated the same points many people were making forever in your other gay thread. Shut the fuck up already you flip flopping son of a bitch.

3/30/2010 10:00:23 PM

I'm only asking my question because I want to see people set a clear requirement for next season instead of watiing until we have another mediocre year just to say "well, we're on the rise and will be good next year" and then if they set the requirement and he passes it they can't be like "well we should have played all year like we played at the end of the year". I want people to commit to what they think and not flip flop.

3/30/2010 10:05:46 PM

Quote :

"until we have another mediocre year"

gad i cant wait for us to have a mediocre year

3/30/2010 10:10:17 PM

Who cares if we beat duke they aren't even good this year

4/4/2010 4:20:18 PM

i cant wait for us to have a mediocre year either

i think i'll flip out if we break even in conference play. football or basketball.

4/4/2010 6:26:53 PM