i think we first need to convince people it's a problem, but i have no idea how anyone is expected to do that with the existing media climate

12/19/2019 10:18:56 AM

lol... speaking of stoner, please explain to us all exactly how the house gets to dictate impeachment rules to the senate?

to me, you sound suspiciously like youre the one sitting in a drum circle, to me.

12/19/2019 10:42:47 AM

Quote :

" Between gerrymandering, vote suppression, refusing to vote on Democratic nominees and bills, refusing to testify in congress, now refusing to have a fair trial as defined in the Constitution."

I mean, they have been very explicit about this. Bill Barr especially. He doesn’t believe it is necessary to follow norms and laws because he doesn’t see any leftist or even moderate Democrats as legitimate. When you view your opponents as illegitimate you do whatever you can to maintain power up to and including enshrining counter-majority rule.

Trump is too stupid, demented and lazy to effectively do much of anything but it’s only a matter of time before someone isn’t.

The media and especially Democrats like Joe Biden refuse to see this for fear of offending some vision of a moderate Republican that hasn’t existed in 20-30 years.

[Edited on December 19, 2019 at 10:51 AM. Reason : And lol at Michael Tracey being RT’d by Trump. ]

12/19/2019 10:50:03 AM

Quote :

"lol... speaking of stoner, please explain to us all exactly how the house gets to dictate impeachment rules to the senate?"

by withholding the articles while dems in senate negotiate rules, republicans/trump want articles fast so it's best leverage

it's not dictating rules, stoner, it's leverage for negotiations


it's also what pelosi said she would do, so it seems fairly likely
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/some-house-democrats-push-pelosi-to-withhold-impeachment-articles-delaying-senate-trial/2019/12/18/6e25814a-21c5-11ea-a153-dce4b94e4249_story.html




[Edited on December 19, 2019 at 10:54 AM. Reason : dab and whoa on 'em]

12/19/2019 10:51:54 AM

To be fair, I actually think it’s the Senate GOP who wants it does fast because they know they can’t defend him on the merits, not to mention they know Rudy and Trump are going to continue criming.

Trump is such a complete sociopath he really does think he is beloved and all of this is fake and wants a full show trial to be “exonerated.”

[Edited on December 19, 2019 at 10:54 AM. Reason : X]

12/19/2019 10:53:55 AM

they want to give trump his acquittal as fast as they can

12/19/2019 10:54:46 AM

thats not leverage, idiot, its simply ending the entire process now.

its too bad people like you think endless twitter debates, should this happen, are more important than anything actually happening.

[Edited on December 19, 2019 at 10:57 AM. Reason : this moron would sacrifice everything to keep arguing with the earls of the world indefinitely ]

12/19/2019 10:56:15 AM

me in a response to a discussion about if dems should hold articles indefinitely

Quote :

"i assume she'll only hold the articles as leverage to work out rules for the senate trial"

nancy pelosi yesterday:

Quote :

" Nancy Pelosi said the House could at least temporarily withhold the articles from the Senate — a decision, she suggested, that could depend on how the other chamber chooses to conduct its trial on Trump’s removal."

utownda:

Quote :

"reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee"

12/19/2019 11:03:49 AM

im very sorry to inform you that you live in a world where mitch mcconnell exists.

12/19/2019 11:05:22 AM

im very sorry to inform you that:

Quote :

"We’re not sending it tonight because it’s difficult to determine who the managers would be until we see the arena in which we will be participating"

12/19/2019 11:06:26 AM

Pelosi threatens to delay Trump impeachment trial in bid to pressure McConnell
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/12/18/pelosi-threatens-to-delay-trump-impeachment-trial-to-pressure-mcconnell.html

Timing of Trump Impeachment Trial in Limbo as Pelosi Holds Out for Assurances
In declining to say when she might send the articles of impeachment to the Senate, Speaker Nancy Pelosi suggested she might keep them as leverage for negotiations on the rules for a trial.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/18/us/politics/impeachment-trial.html

[Edited on December 19, 2019 at 11:09 AM. Reason : etc...]

12/19/2019 11:07:23 AM

lol okay. well i hope youre right and mcconnell caves?

12/19/2019 11:16:30 AM

i'm sure nancy pelosi is unaware that mitch mcconnell exists, i'll be sure to let her know for you

[Edited on December 19, 2019 at 11:25 AM. Reason : https://i.gifer.com/L0Gd.gif]

12/19/2019 11:22:55 AM

i apologize i forgot you were her biggest fan.. never once questioning her competence.

12/19/2019 11:26:40 AM

i think she has often not managed things well, i disagree with you about her being a "pea brain" though


also, perhaps you didn't notice, but my post was a statement of what i thought she would do not an endorsement of what i thought was the best plan, see:

me in a response to a discussion about if dems should hold articles indefinitely

Quote :

"i assume she'll only hold the articles as leverage to work out rules for the senate trial"

[Edited on December 19, 2019 at 11:32 AM. Reason : you got big wooshed]

12/19/2019 11:30:01 AM

lol

12/19/2019 11:35:14 AM

I know for a fact that Democrats don't give a fuck, and never gave a fuck, about the particulars of the Ukraine thing. Here's how.

Not one Democrat I know needed to see the text or learn the facts before making up their mind. Like every other thing that has happened since 2016, there was never an attitude of, "well, let's wait for the facts." No facts were needed to make the decision. The Mueller report didn't work out, so it was onto whatever the next piece of manufactured bullshit was.

Just admit to yourself that you don't actually care. Just like Republicans didn't actually care about the emails or Benghazi. It's all bullshit that doesn't impact your life at all. The "scandals" are just a tool to help get you what you want. That's politics, and it's absolute cancer, but that's the game.

12/19/2019 12:16:02 PM

see what text?

12/19/2019 12:21:21 PM

Quote :

"bullshit that doesn't impact your life at all."

^^IT DOES IMPACT OUR LIVES. Haven't you heard that Eastern Donbass is the linchpin of our natural security. That strip of land is the only thing keeping T34s from rolling straight through to Topeka. Also our democracy is at stake here. If Ukraine announced an investigation into Joe Biden, none of us would be able to vote for president in 2020 as we would become a dictatorship. Our democracy would be lost forever.

12/19/2019 12:24:39 PM

aww horosho found a friend

12/19/2019 12:25:46 PM

The "transcript" or whatever we're calling it.

It's a pattern though. Your average person on the street that is "into" politics will make snap judgments based on a single CNN headline or a single screenshot (of a screenshot) of a tweet. No one has any interest in the truth of the matter, it's all about throwing red meat to the base.

Quote :

"^^IT DOES IMPACT OUR LIVES. Haven't you heard that Eastern Donbass is the linchpin of our natural security. That strip of land is the only thing keeping T34s from rolling straight through to Topeka. Also our democracy is at stake here. If Ukraine announced an investigation into Joe Biden, none of us would be able to vote for president in 2020 as we would become a dictatorship. Our democracy would be lost forever."

Yeah, right. You also have to love that Democrats suddenly care about the Constitution, when in reality they hate it because it was written by Old White Men and therefore should be destroyed.

[Edited on December 19, 2019 at 12:30 PM. Reason : ]

12/19/2019 12:28:10 PM

Quote :

"The Mueller report didn't work out, so it was onto whatever the next piece of manufactured bullshit was."

Didn't the mueller report document multiple cases of obstruction of justice, but said that he can't bring charges because that's the job of congress? Or something like that?

12/19/2019 12:31:28 PM

this "transcript"? https://www.indy100.com/article/trump-impeachment-news-supporters-ukraine-transcript-daily-show-watch-video-9251546

the one dems read that shows crimes? the crimes trump and his attorney and chief of staff confirmed in simple language on camera?

your post is so backwards it's hilarious, the republicans are the ones not learning facts and democrats are the ones who have been resistant to do anything about it over fears of appearing partisan. reality is basically the opposite of your post.



[Edited on December 19, 2019 at 12:33 PM. Reason : dems should be too woke to care about impeachment is a fun new argument!]

12/19/2019 12:31:59 PM

Quote :

"Didn't the mueller report document multiple cases of obstruction of justice, but said that he can't bring charges because that's the job of congress? Or something like that?"

Possible cases of obstruction of justice. And, yet, no articles of impeachment were drafted for those because they, too, were flimsy.

Quote :

"this "transcript"? https://www.indy100.com/article/trump-impeachment-news-supporters-ukraine-transcript-daily-show-watch-video-9251546"

Not sure what you're trying to link here. I read the transcript. It doesn't show crimes, it doesn't indicate a clear quid pro quo or any of the things you think it shows. Nothing said in the transcript was made to seem transactional; it sounded like Trump just blurting out some shit he heard on Fox News.

I get that what I'm saying sounds like the opposite of reality, but that's because you never actually have to listen to opposing viewpoints. You watch the Daily Show and John Oliver and think you're informed. You're never challenged because you live in Raleigh and everyone around you is either a loud liberal, or a libertarian/conservative who has learned not to say anything because liberals are fucking crazy and will blacklist you if they find out you voted Republican once.

12/19/2019 12:38:56 PM

iT dOeSn'T sHoW cRimES

12/19/2019 12:41:21 PM

hes also not a liberal

[Edited on December 19, 2019 at 12:42 PM. Reason : ^^your entire post, literally, was wrong ]

12/19/2019 12:42:23 PM

dtr is some kind of neoliberal, idk. I guarantee he doesn't vote Republican, and I'm fairly sure he votes Democrat. He might throw out some jabs at Democrats here and there, but at the end of the day, he falls in line and does what he's told.

[Edited on December 19, 2019 at 12:45 PM. Reason : ]

12/19/2019 12:44:39 PM

Quote :

"You're never challenged because you live in Raleigh and everyone around you is either a loud liberal, or a libertarian/conservative who has learned not to say anything because liberals are fucking crazy and will blacklist you if they find out you voted Republican once."

Lol, what is going on here?

[Edited on December 19, 2019 at 12:45 PM. Reason : Raleigh is basically Berkeley now apparently]

12/19/2019 12:44:44 PM

Quote :

"Raleigh is basically Berkeley now apparently"

Honestly, it feels like it sometimes. The sad part is that it's not even the transplants that are the problem, it's the native North Carolinians who are so desperate to prove to the rest of the country that they're "one of the good ones" that they're willing to turn Raleigh into San Francisco. It's pathetic and embarrassing.

Just check out the Raleigh subreddit. Used to be a decent place to see cool links about Raleigh. Now it's just another DNC propaganda distribution channel.

[Edited on December 19, 2019 at 12:49 PM. Reason : ]

12/19/2019 12:48:06 PM

muh pah told me in the city they shoot ya if yer a republican. red hats ain't allowed and god help ya if you say merry christmas

12/19/2019 12:49:07 PM

It’s also not reality. As someone who has lived both places.

If you seriously think Raleigh is some sort of leftist haven I’m not sure what to say. It’s no moreso than any larger urban/suburban area. Trump has essentially torched any GOP urban/suburban grip but that doesn’t make it super liberal.

12/19/2019 12:50:55 PM

Quote :

" Just check out the Raleigh subreddit. Used to be a decent place to see cool links about Raleigh. Now it's just another DNC propaganda distribution channel. "

so this is how people get radicalized?

12/19/2019 12:52:19 PM

is that how the raleigh antifa chapter organizes?

12/19/2019 12:53:13 PM

Quote :

"dtr is some kind of neoliberal, idk."

Yep. He's of the raging "vote blue no matter who or you love trump" type

12/19/2019 12:53:17 PM

Lol, JFC this is just off the rails.

If people are calling him neo-liberal the word has lost all meaning completely. What are we even doing here?

12/19/2019 12:54:27 PM

hes a lot of things but he certainly isnt "vote blue no matter what" .. jesus christ.

[Edited on December 19, 2019 at 12:56 PM. Reason : these trumpanzees have just fucking lost it ]

12/19/2019 12:56:05 PM

Quote :

"If you seriously think Raleigh is some sort of leftist haven I’m not sure what to say. It’s no moreso than any larger urban/suburban area. Trump has essentially torched any GOP urban/suburban grip but that doesn’t make it super liberal."

Leftist? No. You've got a few commies here and there but they're mostly relegated to taking out the trash at Starbucks.

What we have is an overabundance of people who are progressive by default. They consume so much media and have so few opinions and convictions of their own, they just become whatever the Twitter/Social Media zeitgeist is at that moment in time. This is the NPC meme and represents the average Raleigh Millenial quite well.

The Bay Area is probably actually better in some ways. Sure, you've got your rabid leftists, but the people there don't have anything to prove to the rest of the country.

12/19/2019 12:57:30 PM

lol, starbucks and the npc meme

12/19/2019 12:58:44 PM

i really want to ask d357r0y3r what he thinks about girl gamers

12/19/2019 1:01:59 PM

Yeah, sorry, I'm not plugged into that scene so idk. I heard they're making some great bath water.

12/19/2019 1:03:24 PM

Pelosi would be a fool to withhold the articles of impeachment. Politically, I don't know how the Ds come out as a winner in this. They did it because their base forced them to. Their best move would be to blame the acquittal on Cocaine Mitch, pass USMCA and do things to help their moderates.

12/19/2019 1:03:43 PM

yes, then the republicans will be nice to them and not say this is all about partisan politics

12/19/2019 1:09:11 PM

who should dems pick as their impeachment managers?

not sure about this, it's creative i guess:
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/impeachment-justin-amash-being-drafted-as-house-impeachment-manager-for-senate-trial/

12/19/2019 1:12:08 PM

lol Raleigh = Berkeley

Destroyer's histrionics made me spit my free-trade organic latte all over my avocado toast.

12/19/2019 1:39:42 PM

https://twitter.com/maggieNYT/status/1207714546049323008

Quote :

"Maggie Haberman @maggieNYT POTUS lawyers are looking at various options for proceeding if House doesn't send articles of impeachment to the Senate. POTUS doesn't want it to be left hanging that he was impeached and nothing was done by Republicans to defend him in the Senate."

12/19/2019 1:41:55 PM

Quote :

"yes, then the republicans will be nice to them and not say this is all about partisan politics"

Well this clearly is all about partisan politics. But ~50% of the country still supports impeachment (much lower support impeach and remove). If she delays too long, people will begin to realize this was political, and not in fact a good faith attempt to prosecute the president for crimes committed.

^Pro-tip. Any time a publication or analyst (especially a liberal one) claims to know what Trump is thinking, dismiss them immediately.

12/19/2019 2:01:40 PM

tHiS iS cLeArLy PaRtIsAn

12/19/2019 2:03:53 PM

Imagine thinking Maggie Haberman isn’t connected directly to the Trump (and Kushner) family.

12/19/2019 2:05:54 PM

lmao @ destroyer for comparing Berkeley to Raleigh. Sounds like he's never set foot anywhere in the Bay Area, actually.

12/19/2019 2:19:52 PM

Quote :

"lmao @ destroyer for comparing Berkeley to Raleigh. Sounds like he's never set foot anywhere in the Bay Area, actually."

I've spent plenty of time there for work, but notice that I didn't actually start the comparison. Someone else did, and I said: "sometimes it feels like it." That wasn't meant to be taken literally. C'mon, don't play dumb.

12/19/2019 2:30:11 PM