I'd have taken bush also, but.....



He fumbled away the rose bowl

9/6/2006 7:35:34 PM

i also believe it's way too early to tell which player will be better in the long run. i honestly as of right now though that they picked the best guy that could help them the most at the time of the draft. obviously you can't predict davis missing the season.

they wanted a guy that they were positive would be in camp from day one, and williams will help their entire defense with the added pass rush threat. he's already been getting double-teamed in the preseason, freeing up the rest of the front 7/8 to do more.

however, reggie bush has a gamebreaker persona and fanfare that no other player in this years draft can match. the backlash the texans suffer from passing up bush to take williams may ultimately outweigh the good williams does for their team, especially given the nature of how he is helping (freeing up other defenders, occasionally bringing down someone in the backfield). bush would have immediately made jersey and ticket sales skyrocket. i won't say it would have increased media attention, because they're probably getting more now because they DIDN'T take bush.

so yeah, i also love that mario got picked first, but i hate that it will most likely be considered one of the worst picks in history. bush's immediate impact significantly outweighs mario's because of how highly touted bush has been for years, and how talented he is. it's going to take a lot for mario to overcome that, and he may never do it. the added pressure of the texans taking him over bush may be too much.

if it were me doing the drafting for the texans, as a first year head coach, i take reggie in a heartbeat. even if he did turn out to be a bust and mario ended up being a first ballot hall of famer, nobody could blame me because everyone was on the reggie bush bandwagon. it would immediately improve the franchise financially and increase the fanbase, and that would happen before he even set foot on the field. i think the texans made a mistake, but i think mario will still do great things for them.

9/6/2006 7:37:10 PM

how bout you let time play itself out

there are TONS of reasons to be skeptical of Bush and Young. Of course, there is no need to spell them out because if you cant figure out, you dont understand football

9/6/2006 7:43:07 PM

Reggie Bush is gonna find out quickly that bouncing outside doesn't work as well in the pros. And that life is a lot tougher without a dominant offensive line.

Houston's defense was the worst in the NFL last year. They needed an upgrade, and Mario gives them that. He is a complete DE. He can stop the run and rush the passer equally well, which is a rarity at that position. Look for that defense to improve in leaps and bounds.

9/6/2006 7:51:43 PM

Quote :

"He can stop the run and rush the passer equally well"

Yet the screen pass still manages to elude him.

9/6/2006 7:53:22 PM

that's the entire point of the screen pass

9/6/2006 7:58:01 PM

the screen pass is supposed to elude the defensive end ....

that's why god invented corners and outside linebackers.

9/6/2006 8:00:59 PM

This is such fucking bullshit.

We haven't seen Bush do jack shit and people are already making retarded statements like this. How do we know that he won't get hammered by a safety or linebacker and miss the season. He ain't very big and he doesnt look very durable.

9/6/2006 8:05:50 PM

Quote :

"Listening to NC State fans defend the Mario Williams pick is comical. Sure, he might turn out to be a great defensive end, but you don't pass up on Reggie Bush. Sorry."

Ohh ok, so Charley Casserly took Mario just because he is from NC State.

Seriously if Mario is so bad why did people KNOW he would leave here after 3 years and that he would be a top 5 pick before even coming to State?

9/6/2006 8:05:51 PM

well to be fair .... everyone one knew kwame brown would be an impact player for the wizards as well :x

9/6/2006 8:08:48 PM

Quote :

"Reggie Bush is gonna find out quickly that bouncing outside doesn't work as well in the pros. And that life is a lot tougher without a dominant offensive line."

Exactly... it wouldn't surprise me to see every starting OL from USC's 04 and 05 seasons to be in the NFL at some point.... even a backup or two wouldn't shock me.

Meanwhile, I wouldn't take ANY Saints OL - not even for depth - if I were starting a new team and that includes Jammal Brown.

[Edited on September 6, 2006 at 8:09 PM. Reason : ;]

9/6/2006 8:09:08 PM

I'm not sure it was a bad pick.

Mario is possibly the most gifted DE ever to enter the draft (Not the best DE, but the most physically gifted). Great DE's are hard as hell to find.

Bush was a great college running back (IMO, one of the best college players ever), but running backs are injured so much and have such short careers it might not have been a bad choice. Bush is tiny... talented, but very prone to injury.

If I owned a team, I would have probably taken Bush. That said, I'm not sure taking Mario was as laughable as some of you think. DE is a much much more skilled position than RB... it takes time to learn and perfect your technique. If Mario turns out to be half the player Peppers is, the Texans didn't make that bad of a choice considering how much easier it is to get a solid RB compared to a DE

9/6/2006 8:21:41 PM

Quote :

"Bush was a great college running back (IMO, one of the best college players ever), but running backs are injured so much and have such short careers it might not have been a bad choice. Bush is tiny"

Bush isn't "tiny." He's not Ron Dayne, but he'll put some licks on some DBs throughout his career. To add to what you said...good running backs are a dime a dozen. Bush might end up being the cream of the crop...but it's not that difficult to find a pretty damn good running back.

9/6/2006 8:32:10 PM

He's six feet even and I'm told weighs LESS than 200.

What worked best for him in college will be his undoing in the NFL, IF he doesn't fix it or at least try to not do it every time he touches the ball.

9/6/2006 8:51:45 PM

Quote :

"LT came out in 2001...Bush hasnt sniffed his jock yet"

My favorite line in this thread.

9/6/2006 9:00:09 PM

From a football standpoint I dont think it was a bad pick.

I'd much rather have an elite DE and an undrafted RB (Wali Lundy) than an elite RB and an undrafted DE.


From a financial standpoint though ew. I think you gotta take Bush just because of all the excitement he would create.

I mean the Texans are still going to suck cock this year even if Mario comes out and gets 8-10 sacks...

9/6/2006 9:07:59 PM

i didnt even read past the first post

but none of this matters

bush hasnt played yet

9/6/2006 9:25:48 PM

over the course of their careers, manny lawson made many more plays than mario williams. mario didnt turn it on till the last four or five games last year. until those four or five games when he was unstoppable he was just an average college DE that had tremendous upside and potetional just cuase he was 6' 8" and 295lbs and ran a 4.5 forty. Manny Lawson played DE, LB, was a special teams demon blocking kicks, manny was all over the field from the time he got here making plays. Overall his production was much better than marios, and i believe he will be a more productive pro than Mario.

9/6/2006 10:40:41 PM

Quote :

"As much as I love Mario and the fact that an NC State player went #1 in the NFL Draft, the Texans were absolute morons for passing up Reggie Bush."

9/6/2006 10:47:24 PM

Quote :

"over the course of their careers, manny lawson made many more plays than mario williams. mario didnt turn it on till the last four or five games last year. until those four or five games when he was unstoppable he was just an average college DE that had tremendous upside and potetional just cuase he was 6' 8" and 295lbs and ran a 4.5 forty. Manny Lawson played DE, LB, was a special teams demon blocking kicks, manny was all over the field from the time he got here making plays. Overall his production was much better than marios, and i believe he will be a more productive pro than Mario."

That's becuase Mario was drawing double teams and they were running away from him.

Manny wouldn't have been half the player he was without Mario

9/6/2006 11:17:34 PM

the mario pick was a dumb pick because they could have gotten mario if they traded down...so they should have traded their pick to the saints who would have picked bush then they could have picked mario with the second pick

9/6/2006 11:17:38 PM

^^So what do you think is gonna happen to him in the NFL?

9/6/2006 11:22:50 PM

^^ obviously they either couldn't or didn't want to swing a deal like that.

9/6/2006 11:50:57 PM

Quote :

"I would liken it to trading Vlade Divac for Kobe Bryant"

I would almost say more like Eli/Philip...since Kobe refused to play for the Hornets

Quote :

"mario didnt turn it on till the last four or five games last year."

at least he showed up for his bowl game unlike reggie

hell lendale white kept USC in the game

9/7/2006 9:27:12 AM

haha, wow, don't even get me started on the bowl game that Mario showed up for. If you want to even call that a bowl game.

9/7/2006 11:11:18 AM

yes the competition was not texas

but it is in fact a bowl game and South Florida scored ZERO points, I was there, I saw it

I also watched the NC game last year between USC and Texas and I don't recall seeing Reggie Bush, The Greatest Athlete of the last 10,000 Years, show up during the 4th quarter

9/7/2006 11:15:37 AM

I would hope USF didn't score any points considering they are practically a I-AA school.

Oh, and Bush atleast played in games that mattered. I don't think Mario has even had a test in a game that meant anything.

So basically its gonna be the same thing in Texas since the Texans are a shit team and aren't gonna make the playoffs for a long long time.

[Edited on September 7, 2006 at 11:36 AM. Reason : .]

9/7/2006 11:34:49 AM

when South Florida beat Louisville last season by 31 points were they practically a 1-AA school?

and Bush did play in games that mattered...he just didnt show up in those games...I'd rather have somebody who shows up at the end of the season like Mario, who learned throughout the season, than somebody like Reggie who balls out against Oregon State and doesnt show up in the most important game of the season

9/7/2006 11:39:22 AM

He can't be totally badass in every game. Mario had like 5 good games his entire time at NCSU, Bush had a great career at USC. haha, this isn't even an argument man, you lose.

^So if Mario is so badass, why did you lose to some shit schools last year?

Im not even arguing about NCSU man, because you don't want to get me started, and I don't want to get suspended again, so I am not really even going to go on stating the obvious, so lets just leave it at that ok? Everyone on here knows what I would say anyway, so there is really no need in saying it. Anyway, the entire point was that Mario was a terrible pick, which has pretty much been agreed upon.

[Edited on September 7, 2006 at 11:46 AM. Reason : .]

9/7/2006 11:41:20 AM

Quote :

"So if Mario is so badass, why did you lose to some shit schools last year?"

he doesnt play offense you idiot

you dont know shit about South Florida, you dont know shit about NC State and you dont know shit about USC

Quote :

"Anyway, the entire point was that Mario was a terrible pick, which has pretty much been agreed upon"

agreed upon? who gives a fuck what people agree on...NEITHER OF THEM HAVE PLAYED A SINGLE NFL GAME

hey by the way, how's Maurice Clarett doing?

9/7/2006 11:49:33 AM

haha, look how mad you are getting, this actually just got really funny.

^Once again, you must be pretty slow, that wasn't the point of the article.

anyway, I am done here, I just won because you are getting so upset. Thanks man, I haven't won a thread in awhile. It feels good to piss someone like you off.

[Edited on September 7, 2006 at 11:51 AM. Reason : .]

9/7/2006 11:50:08 AM

every now and then idiots piss me off when i take them seriously

one more question though...do you prefer sucking off bush or taking it from him in the ass?

9/7/2006 11:52:14 AM

The only reason you are getting so mad is because you know I am right.

Oh, and I prefer my black boys to stick it in my ass, I just cant stand the taste of black cock in my mouth. Now latino cock, thats an entire different story.

9/7/2006 11:53:33 AM

i'm not saying mario will definitely be a better nfl player than reggie

the point, which for some reason you just dont get, is that NOBODY KNOWS YET

because NEITHER OF THEM HAVE EVER PLAYED IN THE NFL

and RIGHT NOW ITS ALL SPECULATION

but whatever...hey hows Maurice Clarett doing? When I think of Ohio State, I think of Maurice Clarett

9/7/2006 11:55:23 AM

Exactly, nobody knows, and based on that, Bush is the better pick RIGHT NOW. He has the most potential. Thats pretty much the point of the entire article, that and that the Texans totally fucked up.


I really don't care about Clarett now. The guy is a waste of talent. And you SHOULD think of him when you think of OSU, you seemed to be so concerned with people showing up in the 4th quarter, and he did, in the national championship, and his team won. Something that NCSU will probably never do. So thanks man, I am glad to know that you are thinking of past champions, and the players who took them to, and lead them to a national championship. Sure Clarett fucked his shit up, but his freshman year he was a stud.

9/7/2006 12:00:14 PM

Quote :

"Exactly, nobody knows, and based on that, Bush is the better pick RIGHT NOW"

No...there is no better pick RIGHT NOW because nobody knows...hey who was the better pick in the NBA draft between Adam Morisson and Tyrus Thomas? NOBODY KNOWS because neither of them has played an NBA game yet

and hey, Ohio State won me money when they cheated Miami out of that game...I was happy they won because it was my payday...

Quote :

"lead them to a national championship"

dont you have to be injured less than half the season to lead a team anywhere? btw Mario Williams NEVER MISSED A SINGLE GAME due to injury

Quote :

"Sure Clarett fucked his shit up"

understatement of the year

9/7/2006 12:03:30 PM

Comparing Thomas and Morrison isn't even the same. The Texans needed a running back, they needed to make their fans happy, and they needed to draw interest to their team. Choosing Bush would have covered all this. Instead they chose Mario, which did none of these, and totally alienated any fan base they had. Based on that, its the WRONG move. haha, listen man, its not like I am making this shit up. There are articles all over the internet on the Texans making the wrong choice, and most of the people in this thread seem to think the same thing also, so stop trying to act like I am an idiot. You are still just mad because you know you are wrong. Deal with it and move on.

9/7/2006 12:06:45 PM

Quote :

"The Texans needed a running back"

No they didnt...Domanick Davis is a damn good running back

its not coincidence that you didnt post the Simmons article until Davis got injured

9/7/2006 12:08:56 PM

Quote :

"So why am I giving the Texans a thumbs up? Because it took 21 years, but we finally have a scenario that knocks Bowie-over-MJ off the board. See, Portland taking Sam Bowie was at least SOMEWHAT defensible -- nobody knew MJ would be a superduperstar, they had Clyde Drexler (a future Hall of Famer) playing the same position, and everyone forgets this, but Sam Bowie would have been an All-Star center if he stayed healthy. In fact, when he was healthy during the 1985-86 season, the Blazers gave the World Champion Celtics (who ended up going 82-18) more trouble than anyone -- they even were the only team to win in the Garden that season, and Bird had to toss up 49 points, a game-tying shot in regulation and a game-winner in OT just to fend them off in Portland. Sam Bowie was no joke. The guy was good. And by the way, the Rockets also passed on MJ for Hakeem. Nobody remembers that part. Look, I'm not condoning the move -- Portland should have taken MJ. But the Blazers' logic for taking Bowie was, at the very least, understandable. Houston's logic was never understandable; the Texans' decision to pass on Bush was shockingly brainless from the moment it happened, if only because you can't disappoint your fans to that degree unless there's a really, really, REALLY good reason. Now it looks like the dumbest sports decision of the past 25 years … and that's before we find out Reggie Bush's ceiling, both as an impact running back and personality. I just find the whole thing to be amazing. In a weird way, I'm glad it happened. Incompetence is always more interesting than competence. So thumbs up, Houston Texans. Well done. You're the sports version of Enron"

9/7/2006 12:09:10 PM

TreeTwista10 don't even listen to anything MacTuckIzzle says because he didn't even realize we went to a bowl game last year, posted on a NC STATE board that we didn't go to a bowl game, and still acts if he knows everything there is to know about college football.

Fucker lost any cred he had on this board by not realizing we went to a bowl game (regardless of how shitty the bowl might have been).

9/7/2006 12:10:31 PM

i just dont understand why he cant delay his assessment of "Reggie vs. Mario" until the season gets going...but oh well

9/7/2006 12:17:59 PM

Quote :

"No, he is trying to say that the Texans had no valid reason to take Mario over Bush"

they had one of the worst defenses in the league for how long?
Mario will come in right off the back and make an impact

there is your validity for taking Mario
that being said / i would have taken Bush b/c of the revenue he would bring

9/7/2006 12:31:28 PM

and of course they took David Carr with the #1 pick in 2002 instead of Julius Peppers...you don't want to pass up on "the next Julius Peppers"

9/7/2006 12:35:18 PM

how long is discussion gonna go?

/thread

9/7/2006 12:51:19 PM

well the texans and saints both play in 3 days so it cant go on much longer i guess

9/7/2006 12:56:37 PM

The sad part of all this is the debate will not be over after the first game. Or season.

9/7/2006 1:18:11 PM

worse != worst

9/7/2006 1:33:37 PM

Quote :

"TreeTwista10 don't even listen to anything MacTuckIzzle says because he didn't even realize we went to a bowl game last year, posted on a NC STATE board that we didn't go to a bowl game"

See, thats where I win. The bowl you went to was made fun of by pretty much every sports writer in the country, and most sport fans don't even realize you went to a bowl, thats how bad it was.

Quote :

"they had one of the worst defenses in the league for how long? Mario will come in right off the back and make an impact there is your validity for taking Mario"

So was their offense, and Bush will probably make an impact too right off the bat, add on the added revenue and fan interest Bush brings with him, and the pick should have been pretty fucking obvious. Hell, the Texans pretty much admited its a bad pick by firing the guy who drafted Mario weeks after he did it.



[Edited on September 7, 2006 at 2:00 PM. Reason : .]

9/7/2006 1:58:48 PM

im not sure how much faith i put into the revenue argument. how much more percentage wise do you actually think they'd rake in if they picked bush over mario? and what if bush turned out to be a flop in the nfl? what if he got injured early on? it seems like it was a good fit to the team, and i don't have any idea how much it affects them monetarily but i wouldn't think it would be that drastic.

9/7/2006 2:00:33 PM

Bush is pretty much the Vick of running backs. They would have sold a shit ton of jerseys, a shit ton more season tickets, and the Texans would have made a ton more money. Hell look at the Falcons before and after Vick.

9/7/2006 2:01:51 PM