Quote :

"His lawyer seemed like the most annoying person in the world to have to listen to"

+1

I don't like to speak ill of the dead, but those courtroom recordings are brutal to listen to.

Quote :

"He probably lost just because of that."

That's kinda what his current appeal/motion is based on

[Edited on December 17, 2014 at 10:13 AM. Reason : ]

12/17/2014 10:11:09 AM

Quote :

"No, it's just an annoyance of mine. Occurs all the time with these NPR types who think that their opinion is as good as fact."

lol

12/17/2014 11:00:55 AM

http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/6ab2d45a77/the-last-episode-of-serial

I'm 90% sure he did it or was involved with it. Jay was obviously involved and Adnan was with him for a lot of the day. Jay's story is so messed up because he is trying to minimize his involvement and make the police he made a deal with happy. Also, who lets their drug dealer not close friend borrow their car and phone for a few hours; especially if the mom checked the mileage to make sure he didn't go extra places?

12/17/2014 1:26:40 PM

"So you don't really have no ending?" -Adnan

12/18/2014 7:41:11 AM

"And we worried, 'Did we just spend a year applying excessive scrutiny to a perfectly ordinary case?'" -KG

"If I'm going to spend a year figuring out he's a 'nice guy', I might as well piss off." -KG

12/18/2014 8:09:50 AM

12/18/2014 1:37:10 PM

[spoilers...]

Adnan did it. This episode was just more evidence to that conclusion.

LOL at trying to inject a rando serial killer into the mix 10 minutes before the season ended. Because that makes a lot of sense.

Ya'll should read the serial subreddit. It's a riot. http://www.reddit.com/r/serialpodcast/comments/2pos5n/please_come_back_in_six_months_and_read_this_to/

Quote :

"The DNA will come back as Adnan's, and he will say he doesn't remember how it got there."

Quote :

"Adnan --> aDNAn = Adnan is the killer. Confirmed. Go home people, I've solved it."

Quote :

"DNA = 3 letters Adnan = nearly HALF his LIFE behind bars. Half Life 3 CONFIRMED."

Quote :

"The CAPITALIZED words in YOUR post make you WANT to read it IN Christina Gutierrez's VOICE, does it NOT?"

[Edited on December 18, 2014 at 3:37 PM. Reason : asdfsadf]

12/18/2014 3:31:28 PM

12/18/2014 4:47:48 PM

I mean, I listened to every episode, but it really wasn't that compelling of a case. I've seen better on Dateline

he's guilty

12/18/2014 5:36:50 PM

eh. it's not a totally rando serial killer. It was a guy who was convicted of strangling a korean woman that same year in the same town who was released like a week before the Serial murder.

12/18/2014 7:51:19 PM

Same town? It's fucking Bodymore, Murdaland.

12/18/2014 8:34:27 PM

As someone pointed out in an article I read, "Big Picture." They probably know that the serial killer is a LONG shot. However, the Innocence Project is just using that as an excuse to demand a DNA test, and if by chance, the DNA proves its not Adnan, then oh well...

12/19/2014 2:51:45 PM

Yea I got that. And I was actually somewhat surprised he decided to submit his own DNA.

But when you listen to the info about this serial killer being revealed, Koenig is all like "OH MY GOD" as if there is actually some significance to this guy being out of jail at the time even though Baltimore has millions of people and it's nearly impossible for the murderer not to be Jay or Adnan.

12/19/2014 3:40:00 PM

Koenig gradually started to wear on me as this went on

12/19/2014 4:50:36 PM

Quote :

"And I was actually somewhat surprised he decided to submit his own DNA."

You would assume in doing so he's pretty confident that his DNA won't be on her. I guess the question is: what happens if they do find testable DNA and it turns out it's Jay's?

12/19/2014 6:11:14 PM

Quote :

"As someone pointed out in an article I read, "Big Picture." They probably know that the serial killer is a LONG shot. However, the Innocence Project is just using that as an excuse to demand a DNA test, and if by chance, the DNA proves its not Adnan, then oh well... "

http://time.com/3639655/serial-innocence-project-deirdre-enright/

they don't seem to think it's such a longshot. But mostly they included his name because he's dead and they don't have to worry about privacy concerns. They have other potential suspects as well, but they're just naming Moore because it's the easiest case to make.

12/20/2014 1:11:08 PM

Here's SNL's take on this podcast, and it's pretty fucking perfect

12/21/2014 7:58:54 PM

hahahah that was pretty good. the adnan and adnan's lawyer impressions were great

12/21/2014 9:07:32 PM

"for more on Serial, ask a white person"
-Michael Che on Weekend

12/21/2014 11:11:00 PM

ah the SNL bit was perfect.

12/22/2014 8:00:16 AM

WOW. That SNL parody NAILED IT.

12/22/2014 2:56:33 PM

I Don't Know: Sarah Koenig on the Problem with Serial from The Outs on Vimeo.

12/23/2014 2:06:11 PM

I just scanned through the /r/serialpodcast subreddit, and damn people are fucking stupid.

Most of them are so emotionally involved in the *story* that they've decided on Adnan's guilt or innocence based on the way they want the narrative to play out... as a *story*

And as a result, there's this polarization where people have picked sides of him being innocent without a doubt, or guilty without a doubt.

And to be fair, I read a lot of the same shit in this thread, but it doesn't seem quite as polarized.

If you have any objectivity at all, you don't *know* whether Adnan did it or not, and if not, there's no evidence that implicates anyone else specifically. Yet there are people over there who are absolutely convinced that Jay or Don is the murderer.

I imagine Koenig and co. watered down the body of evidence into something consumable by the masses, so it's difficult to determine whether you'd know much more detail as a juror or how much the really boring stuff (such as the 2 day testimony on cell phone triangulation) caused you to tune out what might be important information.

That said, with the evidence/data described and presented in the podcast, I could not say whether he was guilty or innocent. If I was a juror, I'd have to vote not guilty because of reasonable doubt. But again, how this is all presented in the podcast is markedly different than how it was presented in the courtroom-- and we are all susceptible to cognitive biases.

12/23/2014 2:58:30 PM

It seems to me that Gutierrez really fucked this up at trial. Based on what was presented on the podcast, there appears to be a lot of reasonable doubt.

12/23/2014 3:05:33 PM

^^^ Wow it's amazing that someone was able to extract a minute and 40 seconds of that from 8 hours of SK talking mostly casually. She said "I don't know" a lot bro!!!!!!! But yeah, she doesn't know. That's the point. No one knows, not even SK after poring through a bunch of documents for more than a year... just like Bobby just said.

However..

^^ I think you're overstating the views on that subreddit. There's a lot of people on extremes and they tend to get downvoted on the more serious threads. But, yeah, some people on the internet are dumb and emotional. Try Facebook next.. it's fun.

[Edited on December 23, 2014 at 3:36 PM. Reason : .]

12/23/2014 3:33:14 PM

http://gawker.com/jay-from-serial-is-apparently-ready-to-talk-1675340373

[Edited on December 26, 2014 at 2:12 PM. Reason : ]

12/26/2014 2:11:59 PM

OH SHIT

12/26/2014 5:39:51 PM

https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2014/12/29/exclusive-interview-jay-wilds-star-witness-adnan-syed-serial-case-pt-1/

12/29/2014 7:08:35 PM

^Not a whole lot new in Part 1.

Quote :

"I think there was another dude or something, or whatever."

Really? Cause just about everybody else who listened to the podcast knows who the other dude was.

12/29/2014 8:26:34 PM

I'm glad we get to hear from Jay. I'm 200% convinced now.

12/29/2014 8:31:59 PM

I think he might be lying. That interview was bunk though, not hard hitting, not very juicy.

12/29/2014 8:33:34 PM

^they did say it was only part 1, right? so there will be more to come

i kinda believe jay's story there. if their "friendship" only consisted of smoking weed a few times and adnan buying from jay, it seems odd to me for adnan to be letting jay borrow his car and borrow his cell phone like that. especially his brand new cell phone.

[Edited on December 30, 2014 at 9:04 AM. Reason : kk]

12/30/2014 8:58:09 AM

Jay seemed so much more coherent than Adnan.

Adnan's just like "I don't know what I was doing that day, it was just ordinary, ya know what I'm sayin?"

Koenig: "so you getting a call from the police about your missing ex girlfriend wasn't enough to make you remember?"

Adnan: "nah, I was high, know what I'm sayin?"

12/30/2014 11:23:52 AM

Adnan just doesn't sound believable to me at all. I think he had a "good guy" persona for so long, he is in denial about the whole thing. He's also scared to let his mom know he did it, she's believed so whole heartedly in his innocence. I think it's a weird thing where he can't let them down now.

Maybe Jay had a bigger role in it, but Adnan killed her imo.

12/30/2014 1:37:16 PM

https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2014/12/30/exclusive-jay-part-2/

The subreddit is a pure witch hunt for Jay. They're picking apart everything he says (e.g. calling him a liar for not remembering exactly when SK visited him).

I have to agree with ^ and ^^. Jay sounds like a dude just telling his story. Yea, he doesn't get all the dates and times exactly right. That's expected. Adnan on the hand plays clueless and won't even blame Jay for the murder.

12/31/2014 9:03:11 AM

I'm not pro-Adnan or think he's innocent or anything, I think he's likely guilty but... this Jay interview. It's just weird the things he is saying now after 15 years of reflection.

My favorite bit from part 2: What would he do different? Would he *not* help Adnan bury Hae's body? Nah, maybe he'd sell a little more or a little less weed to butterfly effect the whole situation. Nice choice.

Also.. he knows SK vilified him but hasn't, himself, listened to the podcast? His wife reads the transcripts and then tells him what she read. You know, if there was a podcast about ME and my wife was telling me about it, and she thought someone was talking shit, the first thing I'd do would be "let me listen to this shit myself".. but that's just me.

They are both skeezes and liars, but Jay is STILL changing his story and saying weird things.. and he's free. And it's hard to feel bad for a guy who got away free after burying a 17 year old's body and waiting for the police to come to him to say anything about it.

[Edited on December 31, 2014 at 9:51 AM. Reason : .]

12/31/2014 9:47:39 AM

Quote :

"My favorite bit from part 2: What would he do different? Would he *not* help Adnan bury Hae's body? Nah, maybe he'd sell a little more or a little less weed to butterfly effect the whole situation. Nice choice. "

You left out the first sentence which provides better context, IMO...so here's the full quote:

Quote :

"I don’t know if me not moving in Adnan’s circle of people would have saved her life. Like, I don’t know if I sold more weed or less weed that Hae would still be alive. You know what I’m saying? I don’t know if there’s anything else I could have done. Maybe I could have listened better, and taken what I heard more seriously."

I think he's asking himself "what could I have done to save Hae's life" not "what could I have done differently once Hae was dead".

And as far as him not listening to the podcast - he sat through the trial (twice) and all the proceedings of the case. It's obviously a traumatic experience in his life. Maybe he doesn't wanna revisit it? I can see both sides of that though.

Personally, after reading part 2 I believe Jay even more.

12/31/2014 9:58:42 AM

This is accurate - http://thefederalist.com/2014/12/23/serial-has-one-of-those-big-flapping-in-the-breeze-red-flags-of-journalism/

12/31/2014 10:07:26 AM

Well, let me post even more context then.

Quote :

"What do you think about the people who have listened to “Serial” and have said in public forums like Reddit or Twitter that you should be punished for participating in helping dispose of Hae’s body? Not all your humanity is gone when you do something wrong. Criminals are criminals, and they do fucked up shit, but that doesn’t mean they don’t still have some sort of a moral compass. And once you engage in a criminal act— Like you did? Yeah, like I did. You don’t lose your link to humanity. What would you have done differently? I don’t know if me not moving in Adnan’s circle of people would have saved her life. Like, I don’t know if I sold more weed or less weed that Hae would still be alive. You know what I’m saying? I don’t know if there’s anything else I could have done. Maybe I could have listened better, and taken what I heard more seriously."

My paraphrasing:

Q1: What do you say to people who think you should be punished for burying her body?
A1: Just because I did that doesn't mean I'm some inhumane monster. Once you do something evil..
Q2: Like you did?
A2: Yeah, like I did. Once you do something evil, you don't lose all of your humanity.
Q3: So what would you have done differently?
A3: Not associate with Adnan? Sell more or less weed? Listened better? I don't konw.

I guess I'm just annoyed because he keeps talking about Hae's mom in the interview and now, with a softball directly about what he would do differently, following a discussion about his inhumane role in burying a dead teenager, he fails to say something to the effect of, "I shouldn't have helped bury her body". Gross.

As for believing him more.. I sure don't. He now says the burial went down at midnight (after the trunk pop at his Grandma's house and not Best Buy--that's new but immaterial I guess!) when the whole trial corroborated Jay's testimony with Adnan's cellphone being in Leakin part at 6-8pm. Dude's either a liar then or a liar now or just a liar always.

ETA:

Jay's interviewer never even listened to the podcast. LOL. Top reddit comment:
"I just realized I'm analyzing an interview with a reporter about an interview with a witness that refused to be interviewed in a podcast about a murder that he testified for."

[Edited on December 31, 2014 at 10:16 AM. Reason : .]

12/31/2014 10:07:58 AM

I mean, Jay isn't a saint. And I don't doubt that he may be downplaying his role to a certain degree. But I still think Adnan killed her.

From that link ^^ this is what I keep thinking:

Quote :

". To believe Adnan was innocent, you’d have to believe he was one of the most unlucky people to ever set foot in Baltimore. You would have to believe that he was a victim of a string of improbable incidents—or, perhaps, that he was set up. You’d have to believe his lawyer was negligent and that the district attorney was, basically, corrupt. But you’d have to believe all of those things—and more—happened in the same case."

and

Quote :

"And after more than a year of investigating, fact is, Koenig was unable to unearth any useable exculpatory evidence."

[Edited on December 31, 2014 at 10:22 AM. Reason : ll]

12/31/2014 10:18:34 AM

Didn't SK say that cell phone tower pings aren't totally reliable as a way of tracing someone's steps?

12/31/2014 11:28:06 AM

The state presented it as pretty open and shut with their specialist explaining the technology in detail over two days. Additionally, the pings matched Jay's story (at the time). However, in retrospect, the pings-as-location evidence hasn't been found to be as reliable as was presented by the State... though I don't know if SK was the one who brought that up or I read it somewhere on the tubes.

12/31/2014 11:43:12 AM

I find Jay more believable after part 2, but he's still shady as hell. It's weird that they keep bringing up whether she said she was from Serial or not, it's not like they would've known what she was talking about in August. Also, she probably wasn't sure how exactly she was going to do the show. I also find the 'stop snitching' angle interesting.

Quote :

"Adnan on the hand plays clueless and won't even blame Jay for the murder."

In his defense, he is appealing a conviction. Anything he says could come up at his next hearing.

12/31/2014 12:50:33 PM

Quote :

" It's weird that they keep bringing up whether she said she was from Serial or not, it's not like they would've known what she was talking about in August."

I thought that too. Serial didn't air until October. I'm sure SK thought saying she was from This American Life would give her more credibility than saying "I'm digging up information on this murder and want to investigate and broadcast it through some medium but haven't exactly figured that out yet". I don't think there was really anything nefarious about SK not saying the title "Serial"

[Edited on December 31, 2014 at 12:58 PM. Reason : a]

12/31/2014 12:57:29 PM

That's because the interviewer from The Intercept is inept and is letting Jay drive the interview. Who gives a shit what the medium is -- it's completely irrelevant.

The whole thing comes off more like a press release from Jay's camp than any sort of journalism.

12/31/2014 1:01:12 PM

Quote :

"My wife would regularly Google my name to make sure none of my personal information would show up."

Good thing he's doing this interview then.

12/31/2014 2:35:54 PM

https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2014/12/31/jay-speaks-part-3/

Seems like this is the last major input into this whole story unless and until Adnan gets a new trial.

1/1/2015 11:04:06 AM

Jay sounds mad paranoid.

1/2/2015 10:05:28 AM

I just got into this but I'm afraid to read this thread for spoilers

1/6/2015 8:56:38 PM

Probably for the best

1/6/2015 8:57:53 PM