You can't force a player to sign a franchise tag. He would've signed it if we hadn't rescinded it, though. No way he leaves $14MM on the table if his options are play 1 year for $14MM or don't play at all and get $0.00

[Edited on April 21, 2016 at 6:56 PM. Reason : I think we can get some kind of compensatory pick out of this]

4/21/2016 6:55:43 PM

yes, depending on how much he signs for, the panthers will get up to a 3rd round pick for letting him walk now.

4/21/2016 7:22:29 PM

Good points made here:

http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/202375/why-the-panthers-got-the-josh-norman-decision-right

4/21/2016 7:34:47 PM

Quote :

"You can't force a player to sign a franchise tag."

No, but very few will forgo a season of pay out of protest, especially ones who haven't made much yet like Norman. Not to mention the damage sitting out a year does to their football value. Tagging a player effectively does force them to sign a 1 year deal with your team, that's the whole point of the franchise system. In our case, we decided Norman wasn't worth it.

4/22/2016 2:31:43 PM

I hate this more and more I look into it. We didn't get anything for him. Not a damn thing. A top 5 corner in this league. We just let him walk. We already tagged him. We are already under the cap. I can't stand the way it went down.

4/23/2016 7:39:42 AM

I mean, we will get an extra 3rd rounder next year for a compensatory pick.

4/23/2016 7:57:39 AM

Yep. I would go ahead and assume that Gettleman had already had some informal discussions about trading him and realized he wasn't going to get anything better than that in return. I'm no salary cap expert, but I assume this extra cap space could be used to help give some contact extensions by giving more upfront money that would count towards this year's cap.

Good for Norman for getting $51.5 million guaranteed. That is an insane amount of money and he was never going to get that from the Panthers.

4/23/2016 8:39:11 AM

There is no way his production is going to be top 3 CB over the next 5 years while making top 3 money. Dudes 29 years old and largely benefitted from a system that suit his skill set. Sure he's a top 5 cb now but in 5 years? Someone else said it best, you pay for future performance, not past accomplishments. And why would we force someone to play on a team in a situation he clearly didnt want to play in. He knows he's old, he knows this is his only chance at big money, why would he risk getting injured this year and losing out on a big contract? Gettleman knows what he's doing and this was the right decision. Good for norman for getting his pay day.

[Edited on April 23, 2016 at 8:54 AM. Reason : really happy he didnt go to the saints though]

4/23/2016 8:52:02 AM

^^ Gentleman should have talked to Dan Snyder then. If he did, then it would have been obvious that he was willing to sell the Redskins future to get Norman.

^ he won't have top three Corner numbers with the Redskins and that crap defensive line for sure.

In all fairness, if I was him I would want 75 Mill instead of 55 mil. But he just kissed his shot to win a Superbowl goodbye. He will be part of the reason that the Redskins never get a great team over the next five years because he's sucking up too much cap space for the value he adds to the team

4/23/2016 10:53:54 AM

Can't blame Norman. Maybe one of his future trust fund grandchildren will get to hoist a Lombardi.

4/23/2016 1:30:37 PM

Quote :

"-- Cornerback Josh Norman wanted to stay with the Carolina Panthers so badly that he made a last-minute attempt to sign his franchise tag, according to a league source and multiple media reports. After being informed that the tag, which would have guaranteed him $13.952 million in 2016, had been rescinded, Norman contacted the Panthers, offering to fire agent Michael George and sign the tag, the source said. George was seeking between $15 million and $16 million a year, what he considered the market value, for Norman during his negotiations with the Panthers. Carolina general manager Dave Gettleman, according to a league source, offered a long-term deal worth $11 million a year at the NFL combine and never backed off that offer."

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/15343989/josh-norman-washington-redskins-attempted-sign-franchise-tag-carolina-panthers-rescinded-it

4/25/2016 8:51:33 AM

Quote :

"^^ Gentleman should have talked to Dan Snyder then. If he did, then it would have been obvious that he was willing to sell the Redskins future to get Norman."

They did talk. No one wanted to pay Norman AND the panthers.
Signing him as a free agent was the only way Norman was getting the salary he wanted.

4/25/2016 9:33:53 AM

We couldn't trade him obviously he was a free agent we werent gonna get anything.

If he was willing to sign a one year deal i can't imagine why we wouldn't do it, but I think that's just talk from him. I mean it makes no sense for him to do that.

He redskins deal isn't all that bad most of the guaranteed money is upfront. It's still more than I think any cb true value is, but its not a hideous deal like the maxwell deal last offseason.

At this point I think we should just stay under the cap and roll the extra cap space into next season. Or wait until midyear when an out of contention team is willing to dump a jared allen type deal in our laps.

I just don't want to see any panic trades where we waste the cap space. Let's make sure this doesn't blow up in our face. We are in bad shape in our secondary though.


People say norman was a product of our system but that couldn't be further from the truth. He was elite last year, period. Our pass rush was a weakness for much of the season

4/25/2016 9:27:27 PM

Norman vs OBJ will happen twice a year now. Should be entertaining.

4/26/2016 2:00:14 AM

Meh, OBJ was an over-throw from having a monster game on Norman, instead he just had a really good game against Norman. I'm sure OBJ isn't the slightest bit worried.

4/26/2016 8:55:50 AM

^
You mean a drop?

4/26/2016 9:06:44 AM

TIL 6 catches for 76 yards and TD is a monster game

His biggest play was in the 4th quarter where he took a drag route 40 yards on the other side of the field from Norman.

4/26/2016 9:13:45 AM

Regardless of the game play, they showed pretty clearly that they each could get into the other's head. Its going to make these games something to watch.

4/26/2016 10:17:46 AM

I think 6 catches for 76 yards and a TD is a really good game against a pro bowl CB.

He was only covered by Norman for 22 snaps. He caught 4 of 6 and a TD on him.

Sorry, yes, Beckham Jr. dropped a 50+ yard TD that he was being covered by Norman that he clearly burned him and he had a bad drop. So yeah, that would have been 7 catches for 126 yards and 2 TDs, that would have indeed been a "monster game".

Other than the 3 personal fouls, I'd probably give the game to Beckham.

4/26/2016 10:31:01 AM

If Cam would have held onto the ball we would have won the Super Bowl.

If my grandma had wheels she'd be a bike.

There's a million hypotheticals that happen over 60 mins. You can't hold something that didn't actually happen against him.

4/26/2016 11:45:33 AM

him burning him wasn't a hypothetical, though

4/26/2016 11:50:08 AM

If Ted Ginn catches another ball we're up 35.

If Peanut has a healthy knee we play better defense that day.

If Odell gets thrown out he doesn't have any stats.

4/26/2016 11:52:19 AM

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/film-room/2016/film-room-josh-norman

Quote :

"A handful of plays can have a huge impact on the perception of a cornerback. In 2015, Norman benefited from drops as much as any of his peers. He struggled massively against the top receivers in the league. Odell Beckham's stat line and antics during the game overshadowed that he eviscerated Norman in one-on-one situations. Beckham dropped a 50-plus-yard touchdown on their very first qualifying snap of the game; he dropped an out route soon after before Eli Manning missed him down the seam when he was wide open for another potential long touchdown. For the game as a whole, Beckham beat Norman nine of 10 times. It was one of, if not the most lopsided matchup since this analysis method was created."

a dropped pass while wide open has absolutely nothing to do with the DB you've burned

4/26/2016 12:06:01 PM

Quote :

"If my grandma had wheels she'd be a bike."

4/26/2016 12:22:41 PM

Lol at Norman "struggling massively" against Hopkins, Julio, etc

4/26/2016 1:50:18 PM

It wasn't just Beckham. Off the top of my head TY Hilton and a gimpy Randall Cobb dropped easy TDs after burning Norman. He does well against big athletic receivers, but asking him to cover anyone who runs a sub 4.4 is suicide without safety help over the top. That's the main problem with Norman, he's a "shutdown" corner without elite speed.

[Edited on April 26, 2016 at 2:00 PM. Reason : .]

4/26/2016 1:59:05 PM

^^ read the piece

4/26/2016 2:02:22 PM

How long before a fist-fight between DJax and Norman in practice because he just keeps burning him on go routes? Haha.

4/26/2016 2:13:18 PM

I mean every DB gets burned, especially man-to-man guys, that's part of the job. Here's Ted Ginn making Revis look silly:



The problem with Norman is he doesn't primarily play man and when looking at the small (admittedly) sample size in which he does, it's not pretty. This was Gettleman's and I'm sure a lot of GM's thoughts who turned him down for 15-16M/year, that's just too much for a system CB. Especially a system CB who benefitted from a high scoring offense, a talented/aggressive front, and a lot of bad QB play.

4/26/2016 4:13:28 PM

all CBs are system CBs.

Richard Sherman is a great CB, because he plays in a similar scheme to the Panthers. Put him in a position where he has to man up against a #1 all the time and he wouldn't look so hot.

Put a great man defender in a zone defense when he isn't as good playing zone as he is playing man and he's not gonna be great.

4/26/2016 4:36:46 PM

That's a good article and good reasoning for why he's overpaid. Still sucks to lose him, but we definitely didn't wanna overpay by as much as he got.

Still think we should have kept him for one season but not panicking

[Edited on April 26, 2016 at 6:40 PM. Reason : A]

4/26/2016 6:38:21 PM

Quote :

"Norman faced Julio Jones 24 times in two games. Jones got the better of him 11 times. Typically the cornerback should expect to win more than the receiver, so this matchup was at least slightly in Jones' favor. Jones is closer to the type of receiver with whom Norman is built to match up."

what the hell? Since when should a corner win most of the time, when the receiver knows the play that's being run and the corner doesn't, the receiver is usually bigger and/or taller than the corner, the DB starts off running backwards, DPI and defensive holding are called a lot more than offensive pass interference, etc

4/26/2016 8:48:39 PM

because the DB looking towards the line of scrimmage at all times and the reciever is not

[Edited on April 26, 2016 at 9:30 PM. Reason : among other factors]

4/26/2016 9:27:37 PM

What other factors? I just named like a half dozen that favor the wideout.

Corners are "expected" to beat Julio Jones more than half the time when he knows what route he's running?

[Edited on April 26, 2016 at 9:32 PM. Reason : .]

4/26/2016 9:31:51 PM

because recievers don't always know when the ball is being thrown to them and DBs, more often than not, are able to diagnose a play pre-snap and in the middle of a play

4/26/2016 10:12:33 PM

If a DB is playing zone he might be able to get a read. If he's playing man, he's got his back to the QB the whole time. And the WR usually knows when the ball is coming since the QB and WRs practice for hours every week on timing. Maybe that article is just talking about who should have the advantage in the first 5 yards of the play. Because I've never heard anyone argue that a corner should beat a receiver on a play more than half the time. Cornerback is arguably the most difficult position to play in football (aside from QB)

[Edited on April 26, 2016 at 10:17 PM. Reason : .]

[Edited on April 26, 2016 at 10:17 PM. Reason : .]

4/26/2016 10:15:29 PM

they don't always know when the ball is coming to them since it's up to the QB to read the defense and decide on the best throw to make

WR's can only know where to be when/if the QB decides they are the best option

DB's are able to watch the QB and make a play on the ball based on their decision, more often than not

4/26/2016 10:19:35 PM

If it's a playcall and they're the first read, the receiver knows when to expect the ball, whereas a corner playing man coverage is clueless. You're acting like most cornerbacks drop back into deep zone coverage most plays and are great at reading complex offensive plays on the fly.

4/26/2016 10:29:10 PM

every defensive player is able to read a play on-the-fly better than a reciever who runs their route and gets the ball deleivered to them if they're the best available option

4/26/2016 10:34:27 PM

Obviously a nose tackle isn't reading shit when he's just trying to get into the A Gap. And lots of times, the QB reads the defense before the snap. If it's so hard to be a receiver and so easy to be a cornerback, how come QBs throw for 5,000 yards?

4/26/2016 10:37:29 PM

because they have multiple options and the rules favor them?

4/26/2016 10:41:06 PM

The rules favor the receivers more than the defensive backs, too. And I think you're trying to lump Norman in with all defensive backs instead of just looking at corners, which is what he is. Sure, a safety playing center field can see a play develop. A corner playing man and trying to stay with an elite receiver doesn't have that luxury.

4/26/2016 10:44:14 PM

they do, because they dictate whether or not the receiver gets the ball thrown to them

[Edited on April 26, 2016 at 10:47 PM. Reason : .]

4/26/2016 10:45:58 PM

You guys are arguing over the wrong thing.

It's considered a win for the corner if he's within arms length of the reciever and he gets slightly more leeway on longer throws thanot shorter ones.

It says 80% is excellent, 75% is good... then says norman is 69% which is below average so we can assume somewhere around 70% is average.


That said norman does other things well besides just man coverage. Hes a playmaker and he is good in zone. We give better linebacker help than most teams and qb had one of the lowest qb ratings in the league throwing at him last year.

That said it's one good season. We were offering like 7m last year and 11m this year.. both in line with what we gauge his value was and around where I'd agree with.

When you're a free agent you'll almost always end up overpaid because the highest offer of all 32 teams typically comes from someone who is desperate for your services and/or overvalues them

4/26/2016 10:50:54 PM

I was assuming that all of my points were making it clear that I am more than happy that we let him walk

even happier having seen the insane amount of guaranteed money Washington gave him

[Edited on April 26, 2016 at 10:58 PM. Reason : .]

4/26/2016 10:55:24 PM

I think he also benefited from a great front-7. Washington doesn't have that and he's going to get burned more frequently.

4/27/2016 12:08:31 AM

Our pass rush wasn't all that good. We had weak defensive ends. Short was a beast and star eats up blockers.

Kuechly and Davis give great coverage support which allows norman to play smaller zones no doubt.

But norman was a pretty big deal last year. Teams didn't throw at him all that much. We were offering him $11m/yr for a reason. We were offering $14m this year for a reason.

The redskins deal offers all the guaranteed money in the next 3 seasons. And the majority of it the first two years. So it's not as bad of a deal as it appears at face value.

We have huge holes in our secondary now. We need help.

4/27/2016 12:54:45 AM

^ I agree with most of that but I do think we got very lucky last year plugging in guys. We signed several people late in the season, some who were on the practice squad and some off of the street that were playing significant amounts of time in the SB. That being said, if those guys could come in and compete, why couldnt someone with average NFL level talent? I assume that's what our front office is thinking in letting him walk. I just feel we benefited from a little to much luck in signing those particular guys.

4/27/2016 8:39:32 AM

Hopefully we land one of the top CBs or DEs tonight.

Hopefully we don't trade back to take someone like Derrick Henry or Cravens.

Hopefully we don't just draft Henry or Cravens in the first round.

Wouldn't hate OT/WR, but don't think they're the biggest need, but understand BPA.

In Gettleman We Trust.

4/28/2016 8:53:42 AM

I 100% hope we do draft Henry in the first round, not even ashamed of it. Who needs more defense, we scored 10 points in the Super Bowl! Plus if Gettleman wants him then he must be good

4/28/2016 8:57:06 AM