2/2 so far. Richardson/Hines still up in air.

1/6/2018 3:15:06 PM

dammit

1/6/2018 3:32:17 PM

Niiiiice

1/6/2018 3:35:29 PM

I don't think Hines will leave, another year as the offensive focal point will serve him well. Plus he wants to graduate with his sister

1/6/2018 3:43:24 PM

fuck yes

^i agree...hines would surprise me if he goes. richardson seems like he was maybe the most likely to go pro all along.

1/6/2018 4:34:36 PM

All signs point to Hines returning. Still expect an official statement at some point.

I'd be a little surprised if Richardson returned but honestly Roseboro and Finley returning was fairly surprising. I do think all of the projected 1st round QBs declaring helped a lot.

1/6/2018 5:52:11 PM

Bradly Chubb returning and improving his draft stock probably helped too. Others see the payoff from that.

1/6/2018 7:00:06 PM

are there any classes Finley hasn't taken yet?

[Edited on January 6, 2018 at 8:29 PM. Reason : ]

1/6/2018 8:29:09 PM

^He'll pull a Matt Leinart and just take ballroom dancing his final year.

1/7/2018 10:30:53 AM

Since he's a graduate student I'm pretty sure taking ballroom dancing wouldn't count as progress towards his degree (which is part of being eligible.)

Also Matt Leinart sucked.

1/7/2018 10:50:15 AM

Improvement with that roster has to be 10 wins. I get losing to FSU and Clemson but winning the games you should win=winning all the rest of them, including WVU.

1/7/2018 11:20:16 AM

Glad to hear Finley is coming back, offense should be reliable next year, should be really good if we get Hines and Richardson back. Our kicking game can't be any worse. Now the question is how will the defense be with all the starters we are losing.

1/7/2018 1:12:15 PM

there should be a few "first to 50" type of games next year

1/7/2018 1:37:38 PM

^probably so. but also, i don't see our D being much worse than it was this year. not that year's D was awful, but i don't see our D taking a huge step back.

1/7/2018 2:33:45 PM

Quote :

"Since he's a graduate student I'm pretty sure taking ballroom dancing wouldn't count as progress towards his degree (which is part of being eligible.)"

1/7/2018 2:39:09 PM

^^Losing the best defensive player in the country is going to be a step back. I think the D will have to find a new identity without him.

1/7/2018 3:22:47 PM

sure, Chubb by himself is irreplaceable. i just don't think it'll be a significant drop off statistically for our defense. our d was not very good this year. it was DD's 3rd best D in 5 years here using S&P+. in other words, a pretty average D with one superb player and some other pretty good players. i don't see why next year's D will be significantly worse.

we have solid players returning. obviously the secondary has been a weakness, but we've got depth there and i think (and hope) some of that depth can start to turn the corner and become more reliable. the DL has talent still and that's been a strength of DD teams since he's been here, i'd expect that to continue. Pratt should be a beast at LB, although depth there is again a question. it really shouldn't take a lot for this to be a mediocre D next year. you're right that Chubb can't be replaced, and our identity may be different. but that doesn't necessarily equate to our D being way worse imo.

[Edited on January 7, 2018 at 3:36 PM. Reason : f]

1/7/2018 3:35:30 PM

Clemson might lose more than it thought, McCloud declared

1/7/2018 5:33:24 PM

People saying the D will get worse are only looking at the surface. They aren't even going as far as to realize our D saw a big drop off from the previous year or that we just hired a guru.

I don't really care about replacing individual talent either. I'd rather have a good defense with no awards than what we had this year. Wins>towel grabs any day.

[Edited on January 7, 2018 at 6:07 PM. Reason : our new dline will be talented anyway]

1/7/2018 6:06:09 PM

^^McCloud declared but Cain hasn't and some reports saying he's going to stay. That would be a major boost for them if he stays as most assumed he'd be going pro.

Actually read some "rumors" that McCloud was told he'd be fighting for PT next year because Clemson had some good young guys that coaches wanted on the field.

1/8/2018 9:10:21 AM

Any reports about how our guys did in the All American bowl?

1/8/2018 9:23:35 AM

PI!!!1

https://packinsider.com/2018/01/07/nc-state-signee-ricky-person-shines-us-army-american-bowl/

1/8/2018 9:35:11 AM

Am I the only one seeing a parallel between how folks view our 2018 defense and how state fans thought our 2017 basketball team was gonna be better then our 2016 team?

Heralded vets: Cat Barber = Chubb
Veteran talent: Martin Twins/Nard Dog = 8 other seniors
Upcoming talent: DSJ/Dorn/Henderson/Yurt7 = Our current squad's backups

Different circumstances with Roof coming in (but I'm not sure how much of a say he'll have over the defense, especially without us letting go of Huxtable), our backups have been practicing with each other for longer than an offseason, and defense doesn't require as much coordination as offense.

I'm just concerned that we're setting ourselves up for disappointment with the "we lose a ton, but outside of one player no one else was a difference maker, plus we weren't a top defense anyway, how bad can we get" mindset. Those dudes were backups for a reason and we lose one of our most accomplished defensive players in NC State history.

1/8/2018 10:32:32 AM

Well the 2017 basketball team would have been better than the 2016 team if Gottfried hadn't ran off the Martin twins by playing Maverick Rowan for 38 minutes a game.

Doeren didn't play a walk on runningback ahead of Nyheim Hines, so I think we'll be fine.

1/8/2018 10:40:27 AM

^^ Yes..I think you are the only one seeing that retarded parallel.

1/8/2018 11:03:44 AM

We're going to miss Street, Jones and Hill too.

1/8/2018 11:05:36 AM

I honestly don't think the comparison really works outside of losing our star player, it would be comparable I guess if we were losing Chubb and replacing him with a 5* top DE in the class...maaaaybe? Just harder to have 1 player make a splash at the collegiate level as a true FR outside of MAYBE QB.

I'm not sure it's optimism about our defense, but I think it's more of a realization that our defense wasn't amazing last year from front to back, it was just a solid D with a star player and that our offense really dictated more of the team success. I think the expectation is that our depth issues should be flushed out across the board since we've been redshirting guys and landing solid 3*/4* recruits and by now Doeren should have a better grip on the scholarship spacing.

Our DL:
We lose 4 starters, return all of the 2nd string D and Roseboro has been very productive as have Shug and Bryant. I think the other DE spot could be interesting to see what we can develop, but the biggest concern will be the depth behind those guys, but I understand the optimism when you have Grant Gibson winning Scout Team Defensive POY and getting rave reviews during his RS year(as Shug did) sliding into the 2-deep and we've been landing a lot of athletic pass-rushers as DE.

Our LBs:
We lose 1 starter. Return 1 starter. Return 1 key back-up. So, like our DL, basically 50% of our 2-deep and 2 guys with solid minutes. We also have some 3* guys that have redshirted and should be ready to fight for the back-up spots. This is assuming Wilson isn't ready to contribute next year, because I feel like if he's healthy he could contend for minutes at LB.

Our CBs:
We lose 2 "starters", return 4 guys who have started games(assuming Valdez is healthy) as well have bring in a JUCO CB to push for minutes as well as some young guys that were high recruited to compete for minutes. This year we started a converted WR for most of the season, so I think the expectation is that our CB group will be at least as good as this past year.

Our Safeties:
We bring back the entire 2 deep. Expectations are they should hopefully improve but at least be where they were this year.

So if your DL regresses some, your LBs improve, CBs stay the same, and Ss improve, not crazy to think our D will at least be serviceable. Key to the defense this year will be staying healthy, we just don't have the proven depth like we had this year at most positions. And this is all assuming we don't have any breakout FR landing on the 2-deep and contributing(McNeil, Wilson, Graves, etc.).

1/8/2018 11:06:28 AM

We lose Boone who was prob the best member of the secondary. And we started a converted WR bc nobody could beat him out.

Also who is this other lb with significant minutes?

[Edited on January 8, 2018 at 11:18 AM. Reason : ? ]

1/8/2018 11:15:58 AM

^^ That's a good review of what we return. Thanks for taking the time to write that up.

1/8/2018 11:34:15 AM

Quote :

"I'm not sure it's optimism about our defense, but I think it's more of a realization that our defense wasn't amazing last year from front to back, it was just a solid D with a star player and that our offense really dictated more of the team success. I think the expectation is that our depth issues should be flushed out across the board since we've been redshirting guys and landing solid 3*/4* recruits and by now Doeren should have a better grip on the scholarship spacing. "

this sums up my opinion. definitely not saying we're gonna have a top flight D in 2018. just that i don't think our D is gonna be garbage. we had a fairly average D in 2017 and there's enough depth and talent in 2018 for the D to probably be average again.

Quote :

"Also who is this other lb with significant minutes?"

yeah i think it's just Pratt returning. Riley Nicholson retired after injuries. Brock Miller was RS FR this year and played very sparingly. Acceus also played sparingly this year as a true freshman. Isaiah Moore and Raven Saunders, i think, both redshirted. but LB should be a question mark, aside from Pratt, in 2018. Pratt should be a beast imo.

Quote :

"And we started a converted WR bc nobody could beat him out."

James Valdez got hurt in week 2 and missed the rest of the season. he should be back in 2018, and he showed promise in limited action vs SCar, i believe. we do need some of the younger talent to step up there.

1/8/2018 11:44:25 AM

^Valdez played special teams only vs SC. Alston and McCloud took all snaps at CB.

Also my resource only has through Wake game, but Miller played a few snaps at LB vs Furman, nobody else took a lb snap beyond the main 3 all season.

Missed edit window but:

Quote :

"Roseboro has been very productive as have Shug and Bryant"

I think you need to define "productive". Even accounting for snaps, they were significantly lower than the 4 starters in all counting stats. Roseboro isn't a huge drop-off from Street but that is partly bc Street wasnt great this year. The main point here is Roseboro won't replace Chubb and the other spot is a giant question mark.

But the bigger question is DT. Those guys might be good but they didn't do much in limited time. I'd say they are unknown quantities.

Besides all this depth is super important on DL, sorry guys need to step up beyond those 4 (5 with Gibson in guess)


[Edited on January 8, 2018 at 11:51 AM. Reason : J]

1/8/2018 11:47:00 AM

^maybe it was the marshall game where Valdez came in after Alston got torched a few times? it's not CB...but don't we also have a safety transfer from Tennessee eligible this year too?

1/8/2018 11:50:23 AM

^right on both points

1/8/2018 11:53:08 AM

Isn't there a JUCO DE that is supposed to get immediate playing time as well?

1/8/2018 12:03:46 PM

Joe Babros ^. i'm not sure what expectations are for him.

1/8/2018 12:13:04 PM

My bad, I knew Acceus and Miller played some this year but guess I over-estimated their snap counts.

I also recall Alston getting torched and Valdez coming in and saving the day for a bit and actually being able to play some coverage...then he tore his ACL so never really got to see what he had. I think Alston started early in the season because of his age/athleticism and having redshirted for a year and knowing the system. Once again, I'm not saying our CBs are going to be tremendous next year, I just don't expect them to be any worse. I think the young guys will benefits from some PT this year and another offseason with Thunder Dan. I don't see why replacing Alston/Boone with Valdez/Ingram is a huge step back from the coverage side. Boone was a solid tackler, but that was about it.

When referring to the DL, I meant in limited minutes they made some big plays. Bryant had a really big game against UL with 2 big sacks, Frazier was playing well in the bowl game but got dinged up at one point. It's hard to fill the stat sheet when you're 3rd or 4th in a 2 spot rotation and playing a position not known for putting up gaudy stats. I just like what I've seen from Bryant and Frazier in limited minutes at the DT position. Most of the time when they rotated in, you didn't see a big drop-off from our starters, and that's what I cared about. Roseboro was the 2nd best DE on our team the last 2 years. Street was always overrated and more of a workout warrior(if he gets invited he'll absolutely crush the combine), he'd flash but just never had the consistency I hoped for when we landed him out of HS.

Babros MIGHT push for minutes, but it really just depends on the quality of talent he saw at his JUCO. I'd expect Murchison to contribute some as he was a JUCO last year and had another year in the system.

Would be really nice to land Taiyon Palmer(4* CB) in this class as well, would give us another talented body to push for minutes.

1/8/2018 1:49:56 PM

Quote :

" I don't see why replacing Alston/Boone with Valdez/Ingram is a huge step back from the coverage side. Boone was a solid tackler, but that was about it. "

Based on the Wake game, Ingram has a long way to go. Not sure if he was lacking skill or knowledge/reps. Hopefully its the latter.

As for DL, I rescind my comment about Bryant, i had a miscalculation. His counting stats were actually pretty good per snap. Rose was also better than Street, as you say.

Frazier still didn't do much even in limited snaps, but he is young.

1/8/2018 5:02:01 PM

23rd in final AP poll

it will be interesting to see where we start the 2018 season.

1/9/2018 9:36:19 AM

^Currently not in ESPN's Early 2018 preseason poll.

Could still be waiting to hear on Hines/Richardson I guess, but not sure we'll be on any preseason polls.

1/9/2018 10:33:43 AM

I DON'T WANT TO BE ON ANY PRESEASON POLLS!!!! (just kidding)

1/9/2018 10:41:21 AM

just because it's how the offseason tends to go...i could see us gaining more attention in the middle of summer when writers don't have much new to talk about so then they look at State and say "holy shit they return a ton on offense, they're my sleeper pick in the ACC" or something like that.

1/9/2018 11:08:46 AM

^Yeah I could see us garnering some buzz early, esp. if Richardson and Hines return, but I don't really know if we'll get the "Darkhorse" label. I think the media is going to be pretty busy talking about Clemson(QB Battle, CFP contender) and FSU(new staff, loads of talent, QB battle) in the Atlantic alone.

And to the earlier conversation about playing WVU next year, just saw where they made ESPN's really early preseason list and checked in at #10 after their star QB and WR announced they were coming back. Could certainly be a shootout and a barometer of our season early.

1/9/2018 11:15:46 AM

Writers see we're losing Chubb + 7-8 other starters on defense and assume we'll be atrocious on that side of the ball (considering we weren't a dominant defense anyway). I'm just not that worried about it though. There's some playmakers coming back and plenty of young guys ready to make an impact.

I think we'll pop up on the polls if Hines comes back. I don't think he's the best RB in the ACC by a long shot, but he has arguably the biggest impact. Our offense was basically worthless every time he was out for an extended time.

1/9/2018 12:30:17 PM

But we have to have another offensive threat. We aren't going to have Jay Sam and defenses had to key in on him and even double team him a lot which led to hines and others being open much more than normal.

I think the TE replacement for JaySam, Emeka Ezekie, has a TON of upside though. He showed his worth against Wake. I look to him to breakout next year.

1/9/2018 12:45:43 PM

Except Emeka Emezie isn't a TE...he's a WR...and he's a really good one.

We'll have tons of a talent at WR between Louis, Meyers, Harmon, Emezie, and Riley. Thrown in Hines and Gallaspy and running back (and people say Collins is really good)...and you won't need a ton at TE. With that being said, Parham looked good in his few touches this year and Autenrieth also looks solid.

That's all without adding Person, who can fill in at RB or whatever Jay-Sam-type role we want to continue to use next year.

Our offense should be stacked.

1/9/2018 1:01:28 PM

Quote :

"But we have to have another offensive threat. We aren't going to have Jay Sam and defenses had to key in on him and even double team him a lot which led to hines and others being open much more than normal."

this is the best WR corps in a very very long time at State. Hines was a fantastic RB when healthy. i get what you're saying about JaySam taking attention away from other weapons. but Hines being a great RB isn't really aided by the attention JaySam got. our OL should also be very good in 2018. JaySam's versatility is irreplaceable. But we still have a ton of offensive weapons. With or without JaySam, we have one of the best RBs in the ACC and one of the best WR groups in the ACC. And one of the best QBs in the ACC.

1/9/2018 1:24:07 PM

We're not hurting for weapons.

RB: Hines, Gallaspy, Person
WR: Harmon, Louis, Meyers, Emezie, Riley
TE: Angeline, Parham, Autenrieth

I don't think we have any one player take over the "JSam Role", I think we use different guys doing some "JSam-like" things.

And that's assuming none of our FR outside of Person really show up ready to contribute(have heard really good things about WR Devin Carter).

1/9/2018 1:34:17 PM

Forgot about the transfer Angeline. Should be interesting to see how much production he can give us. His size looks great.

1/9/2018 2:05:18 PM

Angeline is immediately eligible?

1/9/2018 2:44:34 PM

Angeline transferred out of USC something like September 20th and then went JUCO, now he is transferring in here. He will be eligible 1-year from when he left USC.

We're going to file a petition to have him eligible immediately but worst-case he'll be available about 9/20, best case he's available week 1.

1/9/2018 2:45:57 PM