Do legs...and no cardio

Problem solved

3/19/2013 8:30:39 PM

Quote :

"I always end up getting sick when I try to work out in the mornings"

I, too, tend to feel "sicker" during workouts when I do them early in the morning. It's been a while, but I think I used to do workouts before breakfast, though, which might have been a factor.

As far as

Quote :

"How do you guys rotate leg workouts in with cardio?"

I try to do cardio throughout the week, then do any lower-body lifting late in the week so I can recover over the weekend. I'd be open to suggestions as well, though.

3/19/2013 8:31:49 PM

I do legs at the beginning of the week, with chest being done the next day and back the day after that. It gives my legs 2 days to recover before doing cardio the rest of the week.

3/19/2013 8:34:38 PM

Quote :

"I try to do cardio throughout the week, then do any lower-body lifting late in the week so I can recover over the weekend. I'd be open to suggestions as well, though."

That's what I end up doing as well. Just looking for alternatives that don't mess up my running.

3/19/2013 8:38:01 PM

I'm working with a coach, lifting 4 times per week

monday max morning upper
tuesday morning speed lower , cardio evening
wed off
thurs morningspeed upper
friday morningmax lower
sat off
sun afternoon cardio

I'm also doing no carb 3 days, then a day of light carbs, repeat...

not much energy for cardio, but he said i can have carbs directly after workouts

3/19/2013 8:38:08 PM

^^^^^What do you do for your heart if you don't do cardio?

Why do experts recommend it so much?

3/19/2013 8:43:19 PM

I always tried to isolate leg days from cardio days, since common sense seemed to dictate doing one would hurt my performance in the other. I always felt like I needed to be 'fresh' for cardio, as if my 5 mile jogs demanded 100 percent effort. Then a few years back, I saw a piece on Lebron. I don't think anyone here would argue that athletically, he's one of the top physical specimens in the history of sport. I saw where he not only lifted before games, he lifted heavy. Max effort bench, squats, deads, etc roughly 2-3 hours before tip. And then he went out and played 40 minutes against the best athletes in the world. So I figured fuck, we're a month apart age wise, I should be able to do a homeless man's version of his routine. So on days where I plan to run, shoot hoops, softball, soccer, etc, I lift hard a few hours beforehand.

At first, its tough, especially on leg days. But you break through that pretty quickly, and within a few weeks its old hat. The thing to remember is that unless you're a professional athlete, you should always value your resistance training more than your cardio, and this allows you to focus 100 percent on the weights without worrying about your calves being sore from that trail fun. Kill it in the gym, then use your leftover energy for running, basketball etc. It doesn't really matter if you're 30 seconds slower in your 5K, but its a huge deal if you're 30 pounds weaker on your squat.

3/19/2013 8:52:32 PM

yeah, the biggest thing I've learned is without a solid strength base, it's only a matter of time before you're nursing injuries from cardio

that's where I'm at now

take some time to build some decent strength first, you won't lose that nearly as fast as if you were running X minute miles and stopped for X weeks

you'll keep your relative strength base longer than you can cardio with the same given breaks, (as a novice)

3/19/2013 9:02:37 PM

Quote :

"I hate the gym when it's busy because it increases your chances of making eye contact with a body builder guy"

I feel the same way about the females

3/19/2013 9:38:29 PM

Aww, I love the ladies. In fact, I'm probably overly friendly with the smiles. But I look away for the dudes. I should probably just go to one of those lady gyms and straight cheese the whole time.

3/19/2013 10:33:39 PM

You don't need to do any focused cardio if you are active and lifting weights, and you may want to eliminate it or reduce it depending how low of a calorie deficit you are doing.

There are a couple schools of thought on the order. I've read you want to do whichever method you want the most adaptation from last in the day. However, if you aren't spacing it apart by a few hours, than one will take away from the other.

Strength Training gives you a decent conditioning stimulus. However, if you do want a modicum of endurance than you need to do some work with it in the mode you want the endurance in.

My conditioning usually comes in the form of a sustained circuit or pushing the prowler. I maybe do 30-40minutes a week, max.

[Edited on March 20, 2013 at 5:53 AM. Reason : ;]

3/20/2013 5:37:04 AM

Quote :

"I always tried to isolate leg days from cardio days, since common sense seemed to dictate doing one would hurt my performance in the other. I always felt like I needed to be 'fresh' for cardio, as if my 5 mile jogs demanded 100 percent effort. Then a few years back, I saw a piece on Lebron. I don't think anyone here would argue that athletically, he's one of the top physical specimens in the history of sport. I saw where he not only lifted before games, he lifted heavy. Max effort bench, squats, deads, etc roughly 2-3 hours before tip. And then he went out and played 40 minutes against the best athletes in the world. So I figured fuck, we're a month apart age wise, I should be able to do a homeless man's version of his routine. So on days where I plan to run, shoot hoops, softball, soccer, etc, I lift hard a few hours beforehand. At first, its tough, especially on leg days. But you break through that pretty quickly, and within a few weeks its old hat. The thing to remember is that unless you're a professional athlete, you should always value your resistance training more than your cardio, and this allows you to focus 100 percent on the weights without worrying about your calves being sore from that trail fun. Kill it in the gym, then use your leftover energy for running, basketball etc. It doesn't really matter if you're 30 seconds slower in your 5K, but its a huge deal if you're 30 pounds weaker on your squat."

haha so this is almost exactly what I've been doing to past couple of months. I'm not sure if it's the right thing to do and I get pretty exhausted on the days I'm doing both BUT I like to think that I'm training my muscles to move waste more efficiently when tired so they are able to do it better during a half when I'm rested and running faster. Kind of like including tempo workouts (which I also do) which is probably why last week I was so freaking exhausted and sore by Friday.

3/20/2013 8:54:05 AM

Quote :

"You don't need to do any focused cardio if you are active and lifting weights, and you may want to eliminate it or reduce it depending how low of a calorie deficit you are doing."

There are people who do "cardio" because they enjoy competition & racing.

I will typically do weights in the morning & run or bike after work. When I was last swimming competitively it was pretty common for me to do weights right before practice.

3/21/2013 3:38:37 PM

I just enjoy cycling and running a lot more than lifting.

3/21/2013 4:02:26 PM

just came in here to say that face has a pretty lousy body for someone who seems to know everything about diet/fitness

3/21/2013 5:06:48 PM

Hit a new low this morning... down to 171lbs! Goal is to get down to 165lbs by mid-May. Getting shredded for my 3.5 week French excursion.

Still a a fair amount of fluff around the low abs and love handles, but the I can tell some nice visual changes. 6lbs of fat loss clean that up very nicely. Strength is feeling good too!

I'm carbing up for the next 36hours, and then on Sunday hitting the deficit and low carb hard. Going to start using yohimbine and possibly ephedrine after I lose another 1-3lbs.

3/22/2013 11:45:23 AM

^ nice work! 3.5-wk French excursion... competitions in France or just wanting to look great and feel great while you're there? Jealous!

Re: People who love cardio. I'm an addict... weights bore me. Though I know I'd benefit from lifting.

3/22/2013 12:10:20 PM

Going for a vacation... A week in Nice, a week in Corsica, 3.5 days in the French Alps, 3.5 days in Paris or Amsterdam.

I've been busting ass launching and growing my gym... Literally maybe 2 or 3 weekends off for the whole year. Enjoying my success with a nice relaxing month off The joys and misery of being an entrepreneur.

Speaking of my gym, here's a nice promo video we just released:



[Edited on March 22, 2013 at 12:23 PM. Reason : video]

3/22/2013 12:22:15 PM

Pretty thorough examination of the Paleo lifestyle. And not necessarily talking about body re-composition, but the idea that if we all ate like our paleolithic ancestors, there would be less cardiovascular disease and cancer.

I know it's one man's ( of many) opinion about Paleo, but I follow his blog. He is a hardcore complimentary/alternative medicine skeptic. Definitely has written a lot on autism claims. By day, he is a surgical oncologist.

Any thoughts? Anyone?

http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2013/03/25/paleo-and-woo-bad-company-until-they-day-they-die/

3/25/2013 11:45:15 AM

Quote :

"Paleo and woo: Bad company until they day they die"

Is that a typo?

I don't think he's really saying anything in the article. He doesn't really even get into the actual diet he just criticizes CAM (which he doesn't really link to the modern paleo diet).

CAM:

Quote :

"Defining CAM is difficult, because the field is very broad and constantly changing. NCCAM defines CAM as a group of diverse medical and health care systems, practices, and products that are not generally considered part of conventional medicine."

He's really pushing it trying to link a modern paleo diet to CAM. CAM mostly focuses on acupuncture, meditation, homeopathy, and yoga. They're two entirely different things.

When I think paleo I think no processed foods, limiting your sugar intake, and eating whole foods. I don't necessarily eat a gigantic diet of red meats or fats. I stick to leaner white meat and fish. Much closer to the Mediterranean diet.

I mean there's no denying less sugar = healthier and happier person. You could be vegan, vegetarian, follow a Mediterranean diet, or a paleo diet and no matter what the lower amounts of processed foods, simple carbohydrates, and sugars you take in the healthier your heart is going to be. I haven't seen a good study against that.

This was funny:

Quote :

"Moreover, mummification in Egypt during the bulk of this time was primarily performed on elite Egyptians of high socioeconomic status."

The only samples they had to identify atherosclerosis were from rich mummies.

3/25/2013 12:23:47 PM

I've always wondered if it was less about your foods and more about sleep, activity and training level/type, body composition, and stress coping strategies.

Food quality matters, but I am curious to what extent.

For example, my GF gorges on sugar very frequently and she's very healthy.

[Edited on March 25, 2013 at 12:49 PM. Reason : ;]

3/25/2013 12:48:37 PM

Speaking of atherosclerosis...

Sundays are my "re-feed" days (aka stuff my faaaaaaaaaaace). I went a little overboard yesterday and hit up McDonald's AND Wendy's for dinner:

oreo mcflurry
10 piece chxn mcnuggets
double quarter pounder with cheese
root beer float
french fries (value size)
double stack with cheese

3/25/2013 1:19:49 PM

^^ speaking of which, nutrition plays a small role in muscle building?

http://fitnessblackbook.com/muscle-building/nutrition-plays-a-small-role-in-building-muscle-mass-controversial-video/

3/25/2013 1:34:58 PM

Quote :

"Any thoughts? Anyone?"

You don't need me to tell you that orac knows his shit.

neodata686 clearly didn't read the entire thing.

Quote :

"The only samples they had to identify atherosclerosis were from rich mummies."

The only Egyptian samples (they had several other cultures) and they attempted to adjust for this the best they could with not only scientific analysis but anthropological evidence as well.

Orac's point is that the assumptions on which the Paleo diet are based are complete bullshit (and they almost certainly are), but that's not saying that reducing processed food from your diet isn't good for you. But "we haven't evolved to eat grains" is a load.


^^Oh yeah, I had a Angus Bacon 1/3 pound burger with large fries, then for supper a half of a large Jets pizza and like 10 chicken wings.

I didn't even weigh myself today. Back to protein shakes and salads for the week.

[Edited on March 25, 2013 at 1:53 PM. Reason : .]

3/25/2013 1:52:00 PM

Ha, there's a CFA and Wendy's in the shopping center next to my house. I try to avoid them both if possible, but if I end up getting something from one, more often than not, I'm also getting something from the other. I don't always eat fast food, but when I do, I make it fucking count.

3/25/2013 2:21:52 PM

Quote :

"But "we haven't evolved to eat grains" is a load."

But...we haven't. Very few humans were eating grains until the agricultural revolution. Grains were absent from the human diet for the vast, vast majority (like 99.5% or more) of our development.

Plenty of people have food sensitivities, and systemic inflammation is very common. "Paleo" may not be the end-all, be-all of nutrition protocols, but it's a pretty fucking good base to start from. Whole foods are simply more satisfying than sugary, energy-dense foods. At this point, I get such bad feedback from my body after eating a lot of low quality carbs (sorry - "carb refeeding") that it's not worth it.

What disturbs me is the number of people that are trying to "lose weight" or "get healthy", and determine the way to do that is to eliminate meat. I had to listen to my parents' friends the other night talk about how "meat makes you fat" and the need for "whole grains to get the appetite under control". Meanwhile, they're sitting at probably 25% or 30% body fat and getting fatter.

[Edited on March 25, 2013 at 2:31 PM. Reason : ]

3/25/2013 2:30:05 PM

Quote :

"Orac's point is that the assumptions on which the Paleo diet are based are complete bullshit (and they almost certainly are), but that's not saying that reducing processed food from your diet isn't good for you. But "we haven't evolved to eat grains" is a load."

This is very unfounded. The majority of grains eaten are very processed and contributing to the majority of obesity and heart disease in the country. We're not talking about whole grains or steel-cut oats in moderation here we're talking about high levels of corn based products and lots and lots of bread and processed foods. It doesn't take a genius to realize what's causing obesity and that the human body isn't designed to be sedentary plus consume lots and lots of simple carbohydrates.

I think if you took a poll and asked people following the diet what it means to them their first response would be in regard to eating cleaner, eating less processed foods and sugar, and just eating whole foods rather than focusing on "eating what paleolithic people ate". Hell if I could call it something else I would. I hate all the connotations that the diet comes with. Half the time i just try to say I try to avoid processed foods. I'm not a maniac about it either. It's just a general rule of thumb. It's not my religion and I don't do cross fit either.

Quote :

"The only Egyptian samples (they had several other cultures) and they attempted to adjust for this the best they could with not only scientific analysis but anthropological evidence as well."

I realize this. I was just pointing it out.

Quote :

"I've always wondered if it was less about your foods and more about sleep, activity and training level/type, body composition, and stress coping strategies."

There's probably plenty of studies either way but there's no doubt people physically feel better when they eat cleaner. I don't FEEL good when I eat a lot of sugar or lots of starchy foods. Plus there's plenty of studies linking your blood sugar levels to a large number of health issues not to mention increased risk of certain cardiovascular diseases. Eating sugar all the time just isn't healthy for your body.

^I would agree. Humans haven't evolved to eat the quantity of processed grains we eat. Nor have to evolved to sit on our asses all the time.

[Edited on March 25, 2013 at 2:41 PM. Reason : s]

3/25/2013 2:33:24 PM

Quote :

"But...we haven't. Very few humans were eating grains until the agricultural revolution. Grains were absent from the human diet for the vast, vast majority (like 99.5% or more) of our development."

At the risk of turning this into a Soap Box debate, just read Orac's piece. Plenty of characteristics (blue eyes is one example in the piece) have evolved less than 10,000 years ago.

"The vast, vast majority of our development" is completely irrelevant. If we've had enough time to evolve to be grain-eaters we could have been carnivores for billions of years previously and it still could happen. Not that it matters, but your math is also wrong, since homo sapiens has only been around for around 200,000 years, pre-agricultural time was 94% of the total, not "like 99.5%" or more.

3/25/2013 2:59:36 PM

Quote :

"At the risk of turning this into a Soap Box debate, just read Orac's piece. Plenty of characteristics (blue eyes is one example in the piece) have evolved less than 10,000 years ago."

I did. I also read this, which the article references: http://www.salon.com/2013/03/10/paleofantasy_stone_age_delusions/

Neither article provides a compelling case for grain-based diets. That we might have evolved in the past 3,000-10,000 years to eat a grain-based diet isn't convincing anyone.

Quote :

""The vast, vast majority of our development" is completely irrelevant. If we've had enough time to evolve to be grain-eaters we could have been carnivores for billions of years previously and it still could happen. Not that it matters, but your math is also wrong, since homo sapiens has only been around for around 200,000 years, pre-agricultural time was 94% of the total, not "like 99.5%" or more."

Again, no one is making a good case that we have actually evolved to be grain-eaters, they're only suggesting that we might have. The fact that other, newer traits (like blue eyes) came about in the past 10,000 years doesn't prove that we should be eating a grain-based diet.

Human evolution didn't start with homo sapiens.

3/25/2013 3:06:27 PM

If you want to go there, we didn't ingest food through our mouths for the vast majority of our evolution. I guess we shouldn't eat food either.

Why is "paleo is right" your null hypothesis here? It seems to me the burden of proof lies on the people claiming "all dietary illness is caused because we haven't evolved to eat modern foods".

3/25/2013 3:11:16 PM

Quote :

""all dietary illness is caused because we haven't evolved to eat modern foods". "

I don't think this is necessarily the hypothesis of anyone's claim.

I would say because of technological advances in medicine and how sedentary humans have become plenty of dietary illness are caused because we over eat foods (that we may or may not have evolved to eat) because humans have the opportunity and means to over eat compared to other species.

Regardless of whether our bodies are more comfortable eating grains still doesn't address the issue that the vast majority of over consumption is coming from grain based products.

The Mediterranean diet and plenty of other healthy diets contain certain whole grains but focus on not over consuming and not eating highly processed grains.

It doesn't matter what you eat we haven't "evolved" to eat large quantities of highly caloric processed grain based foods because those who do are obese and die of cardiovascular diseases. It's one thing to say we haven't evolved to eat grains in general but it's an entirely different thing to say we haven't evolved to live such sedentary life styles and have diets which consist of a much higher percentage of simple carbohydrates. Many of our life styles simply don't pair up with that diet very well. Sure if everyone were marathon runners than that might be an argument but in no way have humans evolved to eat what we eat today.

I think critics of the paleo diet focus too much on the "what we have evolved to eat" argument rather than focusing on the actual issue of over consumption of certain types of foods. Eating paleo is about eating whole foods and because of that highly processed foods are avoided and thus over consumption is avoided. Until there's a study out there that supports eating grains as a substitute over lean meat and vegetables then there's really no reason to criticize a diet for excluding something that no study shows has a health benefit over other whole foods and plenty of studies show that over consumption leads to a vast number of health issues.

As long as you're active and follow a paleo type diet you can literally eat what you want without having to count calories. I would say that's far more natural and "evolved" than counting calories to not over consume or getting fat on processed foods.

3/25/2013 3:39:53 PM

Quote :

"Why is "paleo is right" your null hypothesis here? It seems to me the burden of proof lies on the people claiming "all dietary illness is caused because we haven't evolved to eat modern foods"."

"Paleo is right" isn't my null hypothesis, it's "paleo isn't wrong". If lean meats, vegetables, roots, nuts, and seeds caused cancer, diabetes, heart disease, bone problems, and autoimmunity, then we would expect to see a lot higher occurrences of those diseases in the fossil record of early tribes that subsisted on that kind of diet. It's entirely possible and actually likely that some people could add in non-paleo foods with no negative effects, but for an elimination diet, paleo is the best place to start in my opinion. It's one thing to say that we recently adapted to a grain-based diet; it's another thing entirely to say we recently evolved away from the typical Paleolithic diet.

Luckily, we don't have to depend on fossil record alone, we can look at more recent tribes that don't depend on agriculture. Look at the Lindeberg studies on the Kitavans, for instance: http://www.staffanlindeberg.com/TheKitavaStudy.html

Quote :

"As long as you're active and follow a paleo type diet you can literally eat what you want without having to count calories. I would say that's far more natural and "evolved" than counting calories to not over consume or getting fat on processed foods."

I'd add one caveat - you can eat to satisfaction and be healthy, but you're probably not going to get ripped unless you count calories or intentionally under-eat. You could probably overeat on fruit and get fat.

[Edited on March 25, 2013 at 4:16 PM. Reason : ]

3/25/2013 3:50:40 PM

Quote :

"Despite a fair number of older residents, none of whom showed signs of dementia or poor memory, the only cases of sudden death the residents could recall were accidents such as drowning or falling from a coconut tree."

Guess they haven't evolved to use ladders yet.

That's a great study though. Makes me happy about my addiction to coconut oil and milk.

Quote :

"I'd add one caveat - you can eat to satisfaction and be healthy, but you're probably not going to get ripped unless you count calories or intentionally under-eat. You could probably overeat on fruit and get fat."

True but no diet recommends eating a lot of fruit. Limiting fruit is key. I don't know. I know people who really don't count calories and eat until they're satisfied and are pretty ripped. I've had no issue losing weight without counting calories and still indulging on fruit, wine, cider, and the occasional single malt.

[Edited on March 25, 2013 at 4:21 PM. Reason : s]

3/25/2013 3:55:42 PM

Quote :

"Again, no one is making a good case that we have actually evolved to be grain-eaters,"

History tells us this. Societies that based their diets around grain grew bigger and stronger than other cultures, and the armies from these groups proceeded to conquer the world and spread their dietary tactics. The Egyptians and the Greeks are both excellent examples of this. Natural selection at work.

3/25/2013 8:25:36 PM

Quote :

"History tells us this. Societies that based their diets around grain grew bigger and stronger than other cultures, and the armies from these groups proceeded to conquer the world and spread their dietary tactics. The Egyptians and the Greeks are both excellent examples of this. Natural selection at work."

There isn't much indicating that the people got bigger or stronger as a result of agriculture, only that they were able to reproduce at a higher rate. In fact, height seemed to decrease in populations that subsisted primarily on grains and legumes. With that said, agriculture and grain harvesting gave us a steady food source, providing a foundation for the flourishing of civilization and markets. That doesn't necessarily mean that a diet based on grain is optimal for health.

[Edited on March 25, 2013 at 9:06 PM. Reason : ]

3/25/2013 9:05:48 PM

He said the Paleo diet strictly speaking is not always sold as CAM, but it's been frequently incorporated. d35 touched on it a little bit with systemic inflammation. Anyone heard of Dr. Terry Wahls? He claims he was cured of his MS with the Paleo diet. But some say he is a quack. http://www.terrywahls.com/

That's just one example of how it's incorporated in CAM.

Anyway, I was just thinking about what Matt said again. What if fo0d quality didn't matter? And if they did to what extent?

Why aren't we looking at people in modern time like the villagers in Ecuador?

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/17/science/17longevity.html?_r=0

A while back I posted a BBC documentary in the Lounge about calorie restriction and fasting.

These villagers were immune( due to IGF mutation) to the two main Western killers- diabetes and cancer. They eat just as unhealthy, consume a high calorie diet, also smoke and drink just as much as we do, but there is no evidence of cancer in anyone in their village.

Could the link be prolonged fasting in paleolithic ancestor as well?

I wonder what the villagers actually ate though.

The scientist in the video suggests reducing protein consumption to bring down IGF level.

Here is the BBC doc again. No longer on youtube, I found a working video here, the peice on the villager and IGF starts at around 19:00


http://www.documentarytube.com/eat-fast-and-live-longer-bbc-horizon-2012

3/25/2013 10:39:01 PM

the fuck is this soap box shit

[Edited on March 26, 2013 at 9:08 AM. Reason : RIP HISTORY]

3/26/2013 9:08:09 AM

Yeah. My bad.

face should finish this page out with revoluationary diet tips.

3/26/2013 9:59:35 AM

i had my first personal training session today in over a year. apparently i don't know how to activate my glutes and i also have horrible balance. this is going to be tough but beach body i will have!

3/26/2013 2:59:30 PM

When I first started I was the same way. Body self awareness takes some time. It helps to have a trainer who is knowledgeable; they can help you on movement cues too. You'll learn what movements activate what muscles and which work in synergy. Building a good glute/posterior chain is a good support for your back.

3/26/2013 3:49:09 PM

I went to a clinic this past weekend and there wasn't one person there who didn't need some help on their posterior chain, even though there were some very decent athletes there

that is the problem with my knee issues currently

3/26/2013 3:55:06 PM

Y'all better be ready for jaws to drop when i unveil this beach body. RIP SISTER WIVES

3/26/2013 8:40:04 PM

^LOL

[Edited on March 26, 2013 at 8:44 PM. Reason : LOL]

3/26/2013 8:43:30 PM

Finishing day 5 of a juice fast today. First time I've ever done one. I've been averaging about a pound a day of weight loss, but feel really good. Just a little hungry at times. The 3rd day was really hard, but the rest of the time hasn't been so bad. Definitely something I would try again. It feels good not to put anything in your body but fresh fruits and vegetables for a few days.

3/27/2013 3:02:39 PM

Heroin also feels good and you'll lose a lot of weight.

3/27/2013 3:11:52 PM

is this also a "what's wrong with xyz on my body when I work out" thread? if so... there is a stabbing pain behind my left kneecap when I run. It's not constant, but it will be present during at least half of my run.

3/27/2013 3:41:22 PM

sounds like what I have

weak posterior chain

tight IT bands and hip flexors

3/27/2013 4:22:16 PM

Somethings bothering your hamstrings or gastrocs. Probably compensation from weak glutes.

3/27/2013 4:41:54 PM

Just crushed some fat loss conditioning:

Part I: AMRAP Time Limit 10:00 Minutes:
A1. Bear Complex x 2 w/ 95lbs
A2. 40 Yard Prowler Sprint

Did 5 Rounds. Then rest 10 minutes.

Part II:
Steady State Rowing for 20minutes: Got about 2.25 miles.

2 months exactly til I fly out for France. I should be as lean as I was back it 2011, but about 5-7lbs heavier

3/28/2013 10:07:58 AM

clever marketing

[Edited on March 29, 2013 at 3:46 PM. Reason : .]

3/29/2013 3:46:21 PM