1000th post

2/27/2006 10:58:10 AM

dammit my long post got stuck on the bottom of page 20

2/27/2006 10:59:37 AM

the key, to me at least, in repopulating the human race: a dedicated authoritive historian with a set reproduction table

we are going to have to keep order on who mates with who
whose offspring mates with whose offspring
and so on and so forth

we do not want to repopulate an entire civilization with blue-skinned corkys

i would say at least 5-6 generations are going to have to be on this controlled reproduction order, for continued safety

depending on the pool of survivors we can begin talking about tapering that back to 3 or 4 generations if we're that lucky

of course, we are going to have to encourage younger reproduction, starting with the first generation of post-zombie offspring, including the discussion of if it is advisable to have pre-zombie individuals mating with post-zombie females. of course the discussion will not be relevant in the inverse, as most pre-zombie women will be at least 12-13 years older at the point the post-zombie males are able to procreate

i would need to talk with a geneticist to discuss trimming out certain undesirable traits, but we can worry about that when we have a clearer picture of who is left with the task of repopulation. but if we have a large pool, it would not be entirely unthinkable to begin weeding out certain weaknesses.

[Edited on February 27, 2006 at 11:01 AM. Reason : this is the future of the world, not west virginia]

2/27/2006 11:00:41 AM

well here's my post from before so you guys can see it in all its glory on page 21

GrumpyGOP, I think your idea of having two women for every man is not exactly realistic. You've already said that it will be harder to pick appropriate women, and I doubt that anybody has planned who to bring. If the zombie invasion happens tomorrow, will there be 9 other men and 20 other women all set to go to the shelter? In the initial chaos, it's highly unlikely for the demographic you desire to come about without a lot of prior planning.

Also, you may be misjudging women based on some of your criteria for choosing. I'll admit that it's less likely for women to have technical, combat, or survival skills. Females who are "early in reproductive years" should not be too hard to come by, since we are at NCSU after all. There are 20-somethings all over the place.

And your rule that survivors must be "consistently mentally stable," seems to be a misperception of women in general. If your girlfriend can't decide whether she loves you or not, it's not a sign that she is "mentally unstable." As a matter of fact, in psychology I remember being told that women handle situations of prolonged stress better than men. For example, in the ill-fated Donner Party, significantly more women survived than men.

This better survival rate may be due to the biological need for females to survive the physical and mental challenges of pregnancy. Females also fare better in times of famine, with their generally lower metabolisms and core body temperatures, and higher amounts of body fat to begin with. Hopefully with good preparation, the survivors will not be starving before the zombies die out. I don't know exactly how much food you would need, but for 30 people to live for 6 months it would be an awful lot.

In fact, it might be a good idea to start out with an equal number of males and females, because the males will most likely have a higher death rate in the time to come. It's no good to bring only 10 males to the survival shelter if 4 of them are going to die along the way.

2/27/2006 11:09:57 AM

what about holing up at a golden corral or something?

2/27/2006 11:20:18 AM

you mean a golden corral with the 300 square feet of ground level exposed windows

yeah good luck with that

[Edited on February 27, 2006 at 11:21 AM. Reason : GOOD NIGHT AND GOOD LUCK]

2/27/2006 11:20:55 AM

yea, thought about that after i typed it.

so what would be the percentage of people who've read this thread actually surviving? I'd say somewhere near 5 or so %, no matter how good your barricades, weaponry, food cache, etc.

2/27/2006 11:23:54 AM

Hahahahaha I laughed when that guy said that a tank would useful. It's a good thing there are just tanks lying around all over the place with tons of fuel and ammunition. Oh yeah and it is also a good thing that every NCSU student is required to take that "Intro to driving tanks" course so we all know how to operate them.

V Not entirely motionless. I hear they get pretty pissed off if you steal their cloudsong

[Edited on February 27, 2006 at 11:34 AM. Reason : w00t 12000]

2/27/2006 11:30:40 AM

i think the thread with the highest percent of survival

the World of Warcraft thread in entertainment

all those people do is sit motionless at a computer screen in a dark room

the zombies would never notice them

2/27/2006 11:31:56 AM

Quote :

"Females who are "early in reproductive years" should not be too hard to come by, since we are at NCSU after all."

Of course, but I'd be willing to wager that the number of people who meet that qualification and the others is rather low. That is, I bet if we could look at women in their 30s and 40s, we'd find a LOT more with relevant skills and honed survivalist instincts. Just from observation, these seem to be cultivated with age more so on the feminine half of the species, though I could be wrong.

Quote :

"And your rule that survivors must be "consistently mentally stable," seems to be a misperception of women in general."

It was a poor choice of words. Whether or not someone is certifiably insane is one thing, and not the thing I'm talking about. However, if any individual, male or female, is volatile and mercurial, they pose a significant problem. And while I don't doubt that adult women are well-suited to surviving stresses like this, I am somewhat less confident in ladies of the age group that would have to be considered. Again, I might be wrong.

Quote :

"I think your idea of having two women for every man is not exactly realistic."

It is important enough that we have to make it realistic. Women are the really crucial factors when it comes to genetic diversity and propogation. Ideally, as I've said many times, everyone would plan for the inevitable ahead of time and discuss matters with their potential mates. This doesn't require too terribly much planning, just a little talking.

Failing that, it may be necessary to put common standards of decency aside. If you didn't plan, or if your plan fell through, then basically just grab two other people -- either a guy and a girl or two girls, depending on who you are -- and drag them with you, explaining on the way or once you arrive. It's not ideal, but you've got to do what you've go to do.

Quote :

"It's no good to bring only 10 males to the survival shelter if 4 of them are going to die along the way."

Ah, but you've made the case for me. Four men can keep twenty women perpetually pregnant. If there's only ten women to start and four of them die -- their survival potential not being all that terribly higher than ours -- then we're proper fucked. Ten men with four women are effectively just, well, jerking off. Except it's worse than that. Such a situation would cause immense tension and conflict.

Quote :

"we are going to have to keep order on who mates with who whose offspring mates with whose offspring and so on and so forth"

Absolutely.

Ah shit, class, more later.

2/27/2006 1:11:41 PM

Quote :

"The tank idea is even worse. At least if you were on the space shuttle you'd have some modicum of provisions up there with you. How much food do you think you can fit in a tank? What do you think will happen when you try to leave the tank to get food? Such a slow-moving vehicle would probably be covered with zombies no matter where you were, just because they'd latch on and hang around. "

No, you use the tank to make your round during the day, to gather more supplies, etc., and then drive back to your base afterwards.

Right now on Centennial, they have this really beastly truck they are using for construction, that could come in really handy.

Quote :

"Hahahahaha I laughed when that guy said that a tank would useful. It's a good thing there are just tanks lying around all over the place with tons of fuel and ammunition. Oh yeah and it is also a good thing that every NCSU student is required to take that "Intro to driving tanks" course so we all know how to operate them."

I didn't realize at first we were talking about here, at NCSU. However, if it came down to it, I think I could figure out how to drive a tank, especially if my life depended on it.

[Edited on February 27, 2006 at 1:26 PM. Reason : ]

2/27/2006 1:21:47 PM

and if you have more men than women

it becomes difficult to truly know which man's genes are in the womans baby, humans are creatures of desire

it would have to be a strictly enforced 1:1 ratio as far as periods of reproduction

you don't want to sully the lines

[Edited on February 27, 2006 at 1:23 PM. Reason : DO NOT SULLY THE LINES]

2/27/2006 1:22:42 PM

Quote :

"Four men can keep twenty women perpetually pregnant. "

Sure this situation is possible, but it is a bad idea for several reasons. Problem number one is genetic diversity. I'll admit that I don't know a lot about genetics, but I do know that in this case there would only be four distinct genetic lines. With only four possible fathers amongst twenty mothers, there's a high probability of related people getting together (especially in later generations).

Even if incest can be avoided by good record keeping, there's still the fundamental problem that there will not be a wide variety of people to choose from. It's commonly known that the Amish and other small groups have a higher rate of birth defects such as extra fingers or mental disability. And the group of zombie survivors will be much smaller than an Amish community.

The next problem is that any large imbalance of the sexes is bound to cause tension. It probably won't play a large role in the initial rush to survive, but the following months will be nothing more than playing the waiting game. Boredom + lives in danger + bad group dynamics = disaster. The last thing the survivors need is for internal problems to develop. It's a bad idea to dismiss interpersonal relationships as incosequential.

My suggestion is an team of 15 males and 15 females. This way even if 5 of each die, there will still be 10 distinct genetic lines, and a lot of conflict can be avoided.

2/27/2006 1:33:24 PM

that sounds like a better ratio, Nerdchick. frankly, I think we would have to make our way down to the sea. we could be able live off the ocean, and i doubt zombies can outswim boats.

2/27/2006 1:37:42 PM

all the way from Raleigh to the coast, through miles and miles of zombie and looter infested wasteland?

not likely

2/27/2006 1:39:23 PM

Can zombies swim? I always thought that they would have problems there, even sprinters. If so, is there a posibility of taking shelter on an island and living a fairly normal life until the mainland infestation is over?

If so, I pick Bald Island. If worse comes to worse, you can always hole up in the lighthouse like those people did an a hurricane once.

2/27/2006 1:47:58 PM

Zombies can't swim but, theoretically, they can walk across the bottom of the river/sea bed.

2/27/2006 2:30:01 PM

they seem to moan alot, i assume they have enough oxygen in them to kind of float... i doubt any of them would think to deflate themselves enough to walk on the ocean floor. but once the amphibians or birds get infected, then you’ll be screwed even on your island.

2/27/2006 2:35:08 PM

yeah people float, especially bodies bloated with decomposition like a zombie

2/27/2006 2:36:24 PM

BEST WAY TO PREPARE FOR ZOMBIE INVASION!

Since it is unpredictable you have to get a convoy of armored and well defended vehicles. Because puting your efforts into a defensive position is a waste when it can be overun, burned down AND YOU MAY NOT BE NEAR IT WHEN YOU FIRST GET ATTACKED!!!111

So we need abunch of hummers.

2/27/2006 2:38:43 PM

ok, so what about a really remote island like bermuda, iceland or the galapagos? I mean, assuming that the zombies will come from the mainland, and once the invasion begins then air traffic will end, there's a good chance that an invasion would never reach a remote island. Furthermore, if for example a plane arrived post-invasion and had zombies on it, you can prepare to destroy it before it lands (or the pilots, in their attack-proof cockpits, can do the right thing and crash the plane).

SO, the solution here is to be able to access a jet or long distance helicopter within minutes and escape to a remote island already prepared for the attack.

Of course, this is just pie-in-the-sky thinking because i don't think any of us are rich enough to affod this solution.

2/27/2006 2:48:04 PM

get real.


and all this talk about repopulating the species is irrelevant. we need to FIRST worry about immediate survival. we are not going to have time to select and round up any group and count the number of X chromosomes, etc, when we realize a full blown zombie invasion is happening. Also, you people are assuming that we will be the only group to survive the attack. That is also insane. there will be tons of rual areas that will be left with lots of survivors, as well as other well defended pockets of urban areas. the first order of business, is just getting somewhere where the zombies can't find us.

2/27/2006 2:49:54 PM

Best thread ever

2/27/2006 2:53:17 PM

Quote :

"No, you use the tank to make your round during the day, to gather more supplies, etc."

But it doesn't work like that. Eventually, you have to get out of the fucking thing to get more supplies, and then you die.

Quote :

"it becomes difficult to truly know which man's genes are in the womans baby"

Exactly. It is absolutely imperative that we know who is the father of which kids, or else the potential for inbreeding becomes unacceptably high.

Quote :

"Sure this situation is possible, but it is a bad idea for several reasons."

Of course it's bad -- anything that involves half the people of one gender dying is bad. But it would be better to have more women for the reasons as follows:

Let's say you've only got five men that survive the first few days, but you've still got twenty women. After things clear up, you've got five completely distinct genetic lines. Let's assume that each woman produces five offspring in the first generation. Any individual child would be able to pick from four other genetic lines each consisting of 20 children (5 kids for each of 4 women for each 1 man). Meaning, under my system, each individual kid would have 40 potential mates (about half of the 80 kids from different lines would be the opposite gender).

In the 2nd generation the number of acceptable pairings would get smaller as there would be a bottleneck effect if we tried to guarantee that no mates would share a common grandfather. Of course, that would not be a terribly high priority -- sharing one grandparent does not increase the risk of defects by any significant margin. After that, though, things would widen up a bit.

Under your 1:1 ratio, if we lose five women, then there are still only five genetic lines, except now there's half as many offspring. If having "a wide variety of people to chose from" is important to you, then having more women is absolutely necessary, as they are the only limiting factor to how fast we can reproduce.

In summary: your system is much more sensitive to personnel loss while not producing significant benefits in any area.

Quote :

"Boredom + lives in danger + bad group dynamics = disaster."

It has been postulated and widely agreed that the zombies will die out on their own in sufficient numbers to allow freedom of movement within three months, four at the outside. It's a relatively long time, yes. The best way I can see to handle it is to keep relationships on the backburner entirely during this time.

I say that for several reasons. One, there shouldn't really be any fucking going on while we're in the shelter -- pregnancy would only be a liability when we're fending off the hordes. Two, back to the issue at hand, it would prevent people from becoming terribly attached or possessive one way or the other. Everyone would be cognizant of who they were eventually going to be paired with, but it wouldn't develop into a pressing issue until after we left the shelter, at which point both "boredom" and "lives in danger" will not be significant factors.

It is also worth pointing out that historically both in terms of humanity and nature it has been relatively palatable to women to share their mates. Many cultures practice(d) this polygamy, and it happens with animals all the time. It will take some adjustment, sure, but I think it's doable.

At least you seem to have your head on your shoulders when it comes to actually handling the zombies.

2/27/2006 3:00:00 PM

^^true. And that being the case, a question of primary importance is: How will we first find out about the invasion? I think most people here are expecting to hear about it on the news or have someone call them, which allows time to make it to a shelter or reinforced position. But what if you wake up in the middle of the night and zombies are pounding on your door and breaking your windows. Then what?

Possibly Homeland Security could develop a threat level for zombie invasion and a SOP for warning the population, much like they have tornado warning systems in the middle of the country. In fact, they could possibly utilize the same sirens as they do for tornados because then people will go to basements and secure places. All they then have to do is roll that out to all areas of the country, and then conduct a PR campaign on making your "safe place" zombie ready.

2/27/2006 3:02:14 PM

Quote :

"Also, you people are assuming that we will be the only group to survive the attack."

I'm not assuming that. I'm saying we shouldn't count on:

1) There being other survivors anywhere in the area.
2) Us ever finding those surviviors.
3) Those surviviors being nonagressive, let alone friendly.

Quote :

"the first order of business, is just getting somewhere where the zombies can't find us."

Of course. That's why I've said over and over and over again that people should make plans relating to repopulation NOW, since there won't be time when the shit hits the fan.

2/27/2006 3:02:39 PM

Quote :

"Possibly Homeland Security could develop a threat level for zombie invasion"

they can't even handle things that we have precedents for (i.e., floods and hurricanes)

you think they're going to know what to do with zombie invasions?

2/27/2006 3:04:02 PM

i'm not saying they could handle the aftermath, but at least the warning, right?

2/27/2006 3:06:17 PM

Nah, I wouldn't rely on the government for anything, they are the ones that would probably start this mess in the first place...self reliance is the way to go...by the way, this is THE BEST Thread EVER!!!!!

2/27/2006 5:26:05 PM

The government will not be in much of a position to help. As I said on page one, safehouses are always compromised. As far as a warning system goes, they would hold off on using it for fear of embarassment -- by the time it was employed, it would be too late.

If you keep vigilant, you'll know it's coming. Strange news reports, inexplicable violence, etc. When you get a whiff something is up, you don't necessarily have to go straight for your safehouse, but you should start getting your shit together for when the move is necessary, which will be sooner rather than later.

2/28/2006 12:25:17 AM

i've been thinking. perhaps the best way for a person to survive a zombie attack is to stock up on tons of food and water in advance, and hole up in their own homes.

for example, i live on the second floor in gorman crossings, and there is only one way up to my apartment, and it is via a stairwell outside. I have a thick brick wall and a metal door (with no windows) between my and the staircase. I could easily barricade the staircase (thereby protecting all four units that the staircase services) and have a sturdy latching system on my door incase that was breached.

True, this wouldn't be good for lots of people to survive in, but I could accomidate a group of around 8 people in my apartment alone (as well as more in the other 2nd floor apartments in my unit.) I honestly believe this would be the best place for a small group to stay instead of trying to secure a large building once the signs of an attack were apparent to us. You have to remember that the police and general public are not going to be as well informed as us, and they will go on with the assumption that normal property laws are still in effect, and may prevent a group of survivalists from occupying, say, UT, the Round Hotel, or Mitch's.

Now, I would much rather be in a commercial area, since supplies would be closer and in more supply, but in the end practicality of our plan needs to be taken into account.

2/28/2006 12:45:07 AM

You're right, of course; it's one of the big problems I still haven't quite worked around. To take a building for a larger group would require expert timing -- late enough that the police stopped giving a shit, but early enough that the situation still allowed movement to the location.

One possibility would be to move to the site as soon as signs became obvious, without attempting to take over or substantially fortify it. That way we'd be there, and as soon as shit got crazy enough that we could get away with it, we could seize the building.

Of course, the big problem with UT has always been that there will be a fairly large number of people there even after the craziness of shit is obvious to everybody, and those people will have to be dealt with in some form or another. It isn't pleasant, but there will be a period when not only our lives but quite possibly the continuation of the species depend on our willingness to reject common decency and morality. One somewhat cleaner option would be to tell the current inhabitants that their best chance to survive would be to hit the roads. Act official, knowledgeable, authoritative, and they'd listen. Then at least they have a chance, albeit a small one, to survive, but they won't be eating our food. It beats having to push them out of windows.

---

As to holing up in your home, it's certainly an option for many folks under certain circumstances. My house is flimsy with multiple access points -- there's no way I'm staying here when shit hits the fan. It is also the sort of thing that one would rather do only if they had previously arranged a network of others with similar plans and a way to get in touch with them.

2/28/2006 3:47:49 AM

i'm going to have a zombie-proof house when i grow up.

2/28/2006 7:46:41 PM

zombie jesus for president

2/28/2006 7:51:22 PM

wtf zombies? im not reading all of that.

2/28/2006 8:34:52 PM

don't then.

3/6/2006 11:46:50 PM

i think i would hold up in a bar

3/7/2006 10:24:40 AM

i hope i'm hangliding when this goes down

3/7/2006 10:29:50 AM

I had a dream last night with alligators that attack humans at night, and then they were suddenly zombie alligators that in turn created human zombies if the humans survived the attack

3/7/2006 10:42:37 AM

ok now that's just ridiculous.

3/7/2006 3:09:47 PM

lol well it was a dream

3/7/2006 3:10:32 PM

ahaha

this thread's almost a year old...


I'm going to read it one day and I'm adding it to my topics.

3/7/2006 3:14:53 PM

.

3/19/2006 5:00:44 PM

zombies are the shit

But my apartment is indefensible - also of note, its worth the effort to go ahead and buy two 50lb. bags of brown rice and like 3 propane tanks, along with a grill mechanism.

[Edited on March 21, 2006 at 6:53 PM. Reason : a]

3/21/2006 6:52:09 PM

those of you with big plans about "repopulating" the Earth are gonna die first

cause you're distracted

the only goal is staying alive

3/21/2006 7:33:44 PM

good point snewf

we should continue focusing on the "run vs fortify" debate

3/21/2006 7:41:24 PM

I say fortify

3/21/2006 7:42:49 PM

Distracted, nothing. I already know what my plans are for when the shit hits the fan. I have enough people who agree with me on that course of action that I don't have to worry about convincing others to take the sane route. When I do, it's purely out of charity.

Running will equal death, most likely in the short term but certainly in the long term.

3/21/2006 7:52:46 PM

Quote :

"those of you with big plans about "repopulating" the Earth are gonna die first cause you're distracted the only goal is staying alive"

DING DING DING

3/22/2006 12:40:10 AM

To the top.

3/25/2006 10:15:10 PM