You do realize that at least half of all police work is just policing for profit. The highway patrol is entirely a revenue collection wing of the government. There are many, many towns that function off of traffic tickets. Plenty of well known speed trap towns all throughout NC and any other state you care to visit.

There's plenty of room to ask for people to be held to the same standards, but it would be nice if our government wasn't in the business of preying on the very people they are supposed to be working for.

You will never, ever see court costs reduced. It's not in their interests to do so.

We have a system that is so twisted and so full of perverse incentives that it can no longer be referred to as the criminal justice system. There's a whole industry behind law enforcement that is completely unrelated to what is just or equitable. From the courts to the police unions, to the prosecutors and judges, the prison guard unions, and the private prison corps it's a racket the whole way.

12/21/2015 5:09:28 AM

Quote :

"I don't care if you use birth control or not. Are you saying that not being able to get a free condom is why people get pregnant? When will someone stand up and say that getting pregnant (or robbing a store, or dropping out of HS) is a personal/family choice. All you ever hear is free this, reform this, take this, have this...never "take responsibility for actions." I think that may be a major underlying issue. Less welfare means less welfare babies. THAT is fiscally conservative."

Inability to access contraception is a reason why people get pregnant. And conservatives constantly fight access to contraception, solely on religious grounds. Getting pregnant is not a choice. It's a consequence of a choice. And that consequence can be greatly mitigated by access to very cheap means of preventing pregnancy that have very high effective rates. This doesn't even address non economic factors of pregnancy prevention. So, either you support something fiscally conservative and common sense, such as access to contraception, or your belief boils down to poor people shouldn't have sex.

[Edited on December 21, 2015 at 1:18 PM. Reason : ,]

12/21/2015 1:12:40 PM

http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2015/12/20/alabama-is-among-39-states-that-allow-abstinence-only-education.html

reason number 8,572 why proper sex ed is extremely important and a serious health issue

but I'm sure some will still want to blame parents

12/21/2015 1:25:46 PM

As long a we can BLAME someone else, eh fellow liberals?

Personal accountability? Lame! It's evil society's fault. Didn't you hear about the oppression at Mizzou! How can any poor oppressed minority hope to overcome such adversity???

12/21/2015 3:37:01 PM

Issues man. You get 'em.

12/21/2015 3:43:20 PM

Well the echo-chamber told me that if I do have issues, it isn't my fault because I'm an infallible victim. My choices and decisions don't matter, because the arbitrary scapegoat of the day ________ism or ______phobia is the reason why I am a victim but we are strong and the #IStandWith_____ "movement" will rid the world of the injustice!!! SUCK IT GOP

12/21/2015 3:55:48 PM

Quote :

" that when they do the same thing that you and I do, such as speed, the poor can't afford a lawyer or possibly even the speeding ticket fine itself, like you and I can, so they get thrown in jail"

I need your lawyer to get me out of paying tickets. I must be missing out on that white privilege!!!!

Everything I've read if they truly can't pay the DA or judge in many munis attempt to work out a deal yet the issue in many of these "sending the pastor to jail for speeding" outrages is they just don't even bother showing for court! I'd be in jail too for this.

The only thing I would agree is that in many jurisdictions the "court cost" aspect has gotten out of control. My last NC ticket was a 50 fine with another 130 for court cost. Honestly I don't understand why counties dont reduce court costs for those that choose to mail-in the fine along with signed admission of guilt rather then clogging up traffic court. One thing I like in Oregon is that the ADA can at or prior to your hearing reduce the ticket by 1/2 depending on circumstances surrounding the violation or the defendants ability to pay.


Repost due to message 50

12/21/2015 7:58:54 PM

you just haven't read much, and that's not surprising

12/21/2015 8:15:22 PM

Why are speeding tickets a problem? Just don't speed if you don't want a ticket

12/22/2015 10:43:55 AM

It's not solely speeding tickets. There's tons of minor shit that everyone does every day, and if a police officer decides to be a dick and enforce that on you, he does. "Don't do X" is a fantastic thing to say, but in practice, we all do it. And it shouldn't be the case that the poor get fucked for doing the same thing that I do, solely because they can't afford the cost of getting caught like I can.

12/22/2015 7:07:01 PM

The average person commits 3 felony offenses every day. This is not because we are all horrible and evil, it is because it is literally impossible not to break the law in the byzantine system we have created.

Saying, "don't speed" or "don't jaywalk" or "don't burn your trash" or whatever the fuck some person has done isn't acceptable, especially when our courts have said that ignorance of the law is no excuse.... unless you're a cop acting "in good faith" then you can be ignorant of the law all day.

http://www.threefeloniesaday.com/Youtoo/tabid/86/Default.aspx

What's more is that most of theses laws are never even passed by our legislators, they are regulatory laws put on the books by agencies without anyone else overseeing them. 81,000 new laws from them alone in the last 20 years. We've also somehow done away with the concept of mens rea which used to be central to our concept of how criminal law is supposed to work.

If you are unlucky enough to get popped for one of these crimes you'll be fucked because the feds have unlimited resources and damn near a 100% conviction rate because of it. More likely you'll plead to something else, which may still be a felony but will carry a fine instead of prison time, but even then you'll be a convicted felon who may now be unable to vote, or purchase a firearm, or have a shot at getting a decent job ever again.

[Edited on December 22, 2015 at 10:26 PM. Reason : sfsfdd]

12/22/2015 10:16:10 PM

^ All of that is dandy, but even if we allowed the original premise of "don't break the law and you'll be fine" to stand on its own, it would be fine and dandy logic, but ONLY if the average penalty for committing crime were the same for all people across the board, white or black, rich or poor. However, copious studies show this is simply not the case. Blacks are punished more severely for the same offenses than whites are, even when the circumstances are the substantially similar. The same goes for poor people versus wealthy people.

The fairness of "don't commit crime" is predicated upon crime being punished the same for all people. Otherwise the incentive to follow your advice is substantially different for different people. Given that blacks are, on average, punished more severely by the criminal justice than their white counterparts, you might argue that it behooves them more not to commit crime. But that ignores the very real fact that even minor slip ups, the kinds that we all do every single day, are a bigger deal for them than they are for whites. And that's not even remotely fair. For me, it's a matter of "don't murder someone," while for someone else it might be along the lines of "don't speed." It simply shouldn't be the case that one person has to put the same level of care into not speeding as I do into not doing something far worse in order for the both of us to avoid the same fate. (Obviously speeding verses murder is far-fetched, but it gets the point across)

12/22/2015 10:41:35 PM

Agreed. I was only pointing out that the premise of "don't break the law then" is fucking idiotic and isn't a reasonable starting point for discussion.

Also, 2015 is the second safest year ever to be a cop (behind only 2013), and crime is once again at an all time low.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-watch/wp/2015/12/22/in-the-end-2015-saw-no-war-on-cops-and-no-national-crime-wave/

12/22/2015 10:47:09 PM

Not breaking the law is not idiotic. It is idiotic to knowingly break a law just because you feel like everyone else does it and then think you have a leg to stand on when you argue your position.

Not breaking the law is the only starting point because who is going to listen to anyone from a jail cell?

I agree there are way too many laws and it is possible to break one without being aware of it but part of being a responsible citizen is to inform yourself and obey the law.

I can't afford attorney fees and get out of tickets so I don't speed and I've never had a speeding ticket. It's not that hard. Yes, we have injustices in the justice system and racism is still a big problem. Another big problem is that people seem to have a hard time taking responsibility for their actions.

12/23/2015 5:34:22 PM

http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/23/us/black-lives-matter-protests/index.html

Quote :

"Black Lives Matter protesters block road to Minneapolis airport"

Discuss...

i'm sure BLM is making many friends and sympathizers by fucking up everyones holiday travel....

BTW was this shooting a "Michael Brown" type of situation or was this a more obvious police abuse of power?

Quote :

"with peaceful protests to call for an immediate overhaul of the justice system both locally and nationally that will demand accountability for police, removal of grand juries"

LOL is BLM aware of why Grand Juries exist and their purpose? Perhaps every cop who shoot a black person needs to appear before a #BLM tribunal to beg for mercy and prove their shooting was justified else face the Guillotine!

#ALM

12/23/2015 6:24:20 PM

Quote :

" Not breaking the law is the only starting point because who is going to listen to anyone from a jail cell?"

Hey going to Jail builds street cred!

12/23/2015 6:47:56 PM

Quote :

"LOL is BLM aware of why Grand Juries exist and their purpose?"

Well this is the same kind of crowd that was behind the insanity at Mizzou where we had a "racist witch hunt" and formed a "social justice lynch mob".... you know, where things like evidence and reality don't matter. The concept of innocent until proven guilty didn't work for Tim Wolfe.

BLM exists and is funded to over-hype statistically rare incidents where blacks are harmed by whites, regardless of the actual facts. "Hands up, don't shoot" never happened.

Black Lives only matter when white cops end them, and then they can be exploited for political capital.

1/7/2016 3:36:56 PM

cops shoot a guy who may or may not had a knife, a cell phone and a sheet of paper

1/7/2016 11:02:40 PM

This can't be good for Chicago, their police force, or Rahm, if true.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/01/08/us/laquan-mcdonald-witness-cover-up-allegations/index.html

No way Rahm keeps his job if these allegations have any truth.

1/8/2016 1:09:04 PM

I heard about that. Pretty despicable. That is a conspiracy in every sense of the word, in addition to intimidating witnesses, and falsifying statements.

Everyone I know in Chicago was saying pretty much from the beginning that Rahm subdued this entire case, keeping it from the limelight's gentle glow, until he was reelected. Fuck that guy.

1/8/2016 1:23:20 PM

I have to say it, since I'm the TWW R partisan hack here...but that guy was our president's right hand man for years.

I just hope this conspiracy isn't true. If it is, it will completely destroy the trust of the police in Chicago.

1/8/2016 1:28:36 PM

The Chicago police were the ones arresting and torturing people for confessions not too long ago, I believe.

1/8/2016 1:51:28 PM

and this happens everywhere, regardless of which party is in power

but yes, he happened to be the President's Chief Of Staff, which happens to have nothing to do with the current situation in Chicago

1/8/2016 1:59:52 PM

they should have made Carl Winslow chief of police, he'd make Chicago great again

1/8/2016 2:03:31 PM

Quote :

"A lawyer for Massey’s family says the footage—in which Conner can be heard saying “fuck” multiple times—refutes the officers’ claims that they shot Massey because they believed they were in imminent danger. (Massey’s family filed an ongoing civil suit against the officers and the Eufaula department in July 2015.)"

1/12/2016 5:14:53 PM

#Racist #Bigot #BlackHaters #BLM #Oppression

#AMIRITE

1/12/2016 7:08:46 PM

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/cop-serving-eviction-notice-kills-12-year-old-pennsylvania-girl-n495356

Props to the constable for only firing one bullet. This little girl's dad fucked up.

1/12/2016 10:50:11 PM

If she was black i'm sure #BLM would be mobilizing and claiming that the cops were just racist and that the dad was merely handing his gun over to the bigoted police officer (or the gun was planted!) who instead of using good decision making decided to instead shoot a little black girl.

1/13/2016 5:37:26 PM

Issues man, you got 'em.

1/13/2016 5:45:58 PM

All I can think of is that that poor little girl probably felt safe with her daddy. And the shock going through her head when all that went down.

1/13/2016 8:45:04 PM

Incredible

http://www.cnn.com/2016/01/14/us/chicago-police-shooting-cedrick-chatman-video/index.html

Chicago isn't looking too great right now.

1/14/2016 4:14:51 PM

How can you miss this gem at the end?

Quote :

"Although neither officer was charged in the Chatman case, two men were charged with first-degree murder in the teen's killing: his 23-year-old friend Martel Odom and a 22-year-old neighbor, Akeem Clarke. Both were about 10 blocks away at the time of the shooting. The law in Illinois allows for anyone who sets in motion a chain of events that results in the death of another individual to be charged with murder. Odom and Clarke were accused of participating in the carjacking with Chatman but were not with him when police came across the stolen Dodge Charger. Caroline Glennon, the public defender for Odom, accused the state attorney's office of "overreaching and abusing its power by charging two men with Cedrick's murder who weren't even there at the time he was killed." "They sat in jail for over 2½ years fighting their case before the state finally dismissed the felony murder charges against them in exchange for a plea to lesser charges," Glennon told CNN. The two pleaded guilty to robbery and unlawful vehicular invasion and were sentenced to 10 years in prison. They had each been looking at a minimum of 20 years in prison for murder. "

Basically, the police killed the kid, right or wrong, and then charged two other people with killing him. Wait, what?

1/14/2016 11:20:45 PM

^BECAUSE POLICE DO NO WRONG. THEY ARE HERE TO PROTECT US. IF YOU AIN'T DOIN NUTHIN WRONG, YOU AIN'T GOT NUTHIN TO WURRY ABOU'.

1/15/2016 10:23:48 AM

^^While there are some shitty cops out there, I'm starting to realize that most DAs are really the crux of the problem. They NEVER to rarely prosecute bad cops, and then they are also pulling shit like what's in your post, go out of their way to appear "tough on crime" (see Ted Cruz when he was a DA), and rig indictments for whatever is convenient for them.

That, coupled with the sad state of our public defender system, and you just can't win unless you are spending thousands on a lawyer. Which is what I guess keeps all the lawyers, who could speak out, quiet and without conscious.

1/15/2016 10:42:18 AM

Quote :

"Basically, the police killed the kid, right or wrong, and then charged two other people with killing him. Wait, what? "

Wasn't there an incident in Raleigh back in the 07-08 time-frame where a cop responding to a high speed pursuit, lost control, and killed someone (don't remember if it was a pedestrian or another vehicle).

Anyway the suspect finally gave-up or wrecked and the DA charging the guy with voluntary manslaughter since obviously if the guy didn't break the law then the fucktard cop would't have lost control of his vehicle and killed someone

While not condoning the suspect from breaking some law then attempting to flee the police; I think it is a large stretch of the law and a molestation of our legal system to saw how add manslaughter to this guys charges.

1/15/2016 10:40:24 PM

Yes, the overly cozy relationship between the DA and the police is a large part of the problem. Police immunity, however, is the real larger issue. Civil cases would probably do a lot to impact police behavior even without criminal prosecution, if the civil awards came from say... the police themselves, or from their pension fund, or from a fund that all cops had to contribute to, or from the general department budget, etc.

Instead all damages from civil cases are paid by the county, municipality, etc. and the cops feel no sting.

There are other steps that could be taken as well, things like prosecutors and public defenders coming from the same pool and being selected at random. Instead you get the power of the state thrown at an often indigent suspect who then has inadequate representation. Couple that with DAs who are more concerned with winning and being re-elected than with seeking justice and you have a completely fucked system.

1/15/2016 11:20:18 PM

Getting fired would be a good deterrent too, how many of these the govt pays out millions in court but lets the cop keep working at the same job. Try costing a corporation a huge wad in a civil case and see how much longer you work there.

1/16/2016 12:26:02 AM

Quote :

"Wasn't there an incident in Raleigh back in the 07-08 time-frame where a cop responding to a high speed pursuit, lost control, and killed someone (don't remember if it was a pedestrian or another vehicle). Anyway the suspect finally gave-up or wrecked and the DA charging the guy with voluntary manslaughter since obviously if the guy didn't break the law then the fucktard cop would't have lost control of his vehicle and killed someone While not condoning the suspect from breaking some law then attempting to flee the police; I think it is a large stretch of the law and a molestation of our legal system to saw how add manslaughter to this guys charges."

I can't find the news story but yeah that happened. It was completely fucked up and it was actually the cop's fault (if I'm thinking of right one - he didn't even have his lights & siren on but said he did). I might be thinking of a different wreck of where an RPD cop ran a red light w/o lights & siren and ended up wrecking and killing a few people in the other car.

1/16/2016 4:11:03 PM

https://www.change.org/p/district-attorney-john-morganelli-request-cruelty-charges-be-filed-against-cop-that-killed-cat

http://m.wfmz.com/furry-friends/37536696

GG cop

1/21/2016 1:53:04 PM

'Dodge Charger'

you can't make this stuff up.

2/1/2016 9:07:36 AM

Quote :

" Police immunity, however, is the real larger issue. Civil cases would probably do a lot to impact police behavior even without criminal prosecution, if the civil awards came from say... the police themselves, or from their pension fund, or from a fund that all cops had to contribute to, or from the general department budget, etc."

They do. A major 4th circuit case regarding the use of TASERs was just handed down that was brought on by a civil suit. It is going to change a lot of use of force policies regarding the TASER and other types of force. The officer were given qualified immunity in the case because under the letter of the law at the time, there was no way to determine their actions as excessive. However, going forward, its the new law of the land in the 4th.

2/1/2016 7:46:33 PM

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bryan_v._MacPherson

Interesting.

2/1/2016 10:03:10 PM

http://www.cnn.com/2016/02/02/us/witness-lavoy-finicum-killed-oregon/index.html

Quote :

"Victoria Sharp says she is certain LaVoy Finicum was unjustly gunned down by state police after they and the FBI pursued his vehicle in southern Oregon."

Quote :

""He had his hands up," Sharp said. "He was shouting that if they were going to shoot, then just shoot him. I remember him saying that if they shoot him, it's an innocent man's blood on their hands.""

White Lives Matter

#WLM!

2/2/2016 7:01:03 PM

Well... The video shows him reaching inside of his clothes. Twice.

2/2/2016 8:04:38 PM

one less Oregonian

2/2/2016 8:07:08 PM

is anyone else able to tell if HUR is being serious in that post? i can't.

2/2/2016 8:59:33 PM

I heard none of the "activists" were from Oregon.

2/2/2016 9:24:33 PM

LaVoy Finicum had it coming. Him and his "cult" were taking over a national forest and breaking the law. They were armed and guarding the lodge with rifles from a lookout tower.
He almost ran over a police officer trying to avoid their barracade. Then he reached in his coat twice before being shot, like EMCE said. There were 3 or 4 ocupants in his vehicle that were also armed. Good thing the officers had flash bangs.

2/2/2016 9:48:02 PM

HUR is trying to make the point that even though witnesses say someone is surrendering/compliant, this isn't necessarily the case, as this situation clearly demonstrates.

He's trying to say when police shoot someone, we shouldn't believe any witnesses, and should always trust the official account whenever it comes out.

2/3/2016 12:24:25 PM

You got the first part right...

2/3/2016 4:14:08 PM