https://twitter.com/scottmstedman/status/1222288655965814785?s=21

GOP saying they don’t have the votes to block witnesses.

If they’re going to be cross examining Bolton and Parnas on tv in the senate... Going to get rough for trump.

1/28/2020 6:39:57 PM

I don't think it'll be public.

1/28/2020 6:45:15 PM

I'll believe it when the vote happens. Wouldn't surprise me if this was McConnell's way of turning down the heat.

1/28/2020 6:47:20 PM

Do they vote on who is brought in to testify also?

[Edited on January 28, 2020 at 7:33 PM. Reason : L]

1/28/2020 7:33:14 PM

Every single one of them is a traitor. There is no other word for it at this point.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/senate-gop-seizes-on-dershowitz-argument-says-trumps-actions-not-impeachable/2020/01/28/cde059a8-41f9-11ea-b5fc-eefa848cde99_story.html

Quote :

"“Let’s say it’s true, okay? Dershowitz last night explained that if you’re looking at it from a constitutional point of view, that that is not something that is impeachable,” Sen. Mike Braun (R-Ind.) told reporters Tuesday morning. Sen. Ted Cruz (R-Tex.) told his colleagues in a private late-October meeting that by admitting the act occurred, Republicans could then argue that Trump did not have criminal intent, or perhaps that he even had a legitimate reason to ask for those probes. Lawyers and academics strongly disagreed with Dershowitz. Frank O. Bowman, a University of Missouri law professor and author of the book “High Crimes and Misdemeanors,” said Dershowitz’s view is out of step with mainstream constitutional scholars and historians. “In making this argument, Alan is essentially alone, and I mean alone,” Bowman said Tuesday, accusing Republicans of seizing on Dershowitz’s argument because it gives them cover not to convict a president in their own party. “What Dershowitz did yesterday was stand up and be a guy with Harvard attached to his name and spout complete nonsense that’s totally unsupported by any scholarship, anywhere.” Sen. John Cornyn (R-Tex.) agreed, arguing that Dershowitz “made a good argument that a crime is required.” “The Constitution says ‘treason, bribery, other high crimes and misdemeanors,’ ” he said. “It talks all about crimes. So impeaching somebody for a non-crime strikes me as novel. I found it pretty compelling.”"

1/28/2020 7:36:08 PM

From the party that impeached a dude for getting a blowjob.

1/29/2020 8:38:32 AM

^technically more about convincing a young girl to lie about blowing him, then lying about it himself.

But they also got him on abuse of power, which I MEAN COME ON.

1/29/2020 9:00:52 AM

People need to prepare themselves now for no witnesses and the Senate vote on Friday with one or two Dem votes to “acquit” on one or both counts.

Yes, 80% of the country wants to call witnessed but it’s naive to think this will matter one bit come November for Trump. Do you really think some on the fence Trumpster is going to say “well I wanted Trump to win but then Corey Gardner didn’t vote for witnesses, so now I’m a Democrat.”

(But this could cost certain senators their jobs — god willing Thom Tillis especially)

[Edited on January 29, 2020 at 10:00 AM. Reason : Tillis, Collins, McSalley specifically — Gardner and Jones (D) are gone regardless already ]

1/29/2020 9:59:14 AM

80% of the country doesn't give a shit about this impeachment one way or the other, and I can't believe Democrats seriously want to hear what John Bolton has to say. I can't see him testifying to anything other than "Executive Privilege - buy my book".

Maybe he'll get on CNN and tell Anderson Cooper that quid pro quo is sexy and to think of the fantasies.

1/29/2020 10:16:45 AM

I think its more that we would like to see the GOP have to bend on something, just as a sign that there is even a meager possibility that they don't have total control over everything

1/29/2020 10:41:09 AM

I can believe that Johm Bolton doesnt like Trump and is happy to fuck him over

And if Bolton wants to testify executive privilege doesnt apply

1/29/2020 11:05:46 AM

Assuming the NYT article isn't complete bullshit and Bolton actually wants to testify, do you think he'll testify to anything prior to his March 17th book release?

1/29/2020 12:48:53 PM

Are you asking how fast the Senate will vote on witnesses? If they get the votes for witnesses, I doubt the senate would want the impeachment to delay that long

(Also, if it's about book sales only it seems like testimony before that date will help sales)

1/29/2020 12:59:00 PM

Also, now we have people going on record saying Bolton expressed concerns to them at the time

1/29/2020 1:01:59 PM

Quote :

"80% of the country doesn't give a shit about this impeachment one way or the other"

I'm really curious how you came up with that stat.... because i'm pretty sure you're totally wrong.

[Edited on January 29, 2020 at 1:09 PM. Reason : ]

1/29/2020 1:09:31 PM

Quote :

"Assuming the NYT article isn't complete bullshit "

I'm really curious what parts you think might be bullshit.

1/29/2020 1:50:20 PM

^^well trump and gop make up numbers all the time so why not?

[Edited on January 29, 2020 at 1:59 PM. Reason : carrot]

1/29/2020 1:58:50 PM

Romney appears to be pushing for witnesses based on his submitted questions

1/29/2020 2:38:11 PM

Romney and Collins I think are clear votes for witnesses at this point.

The latest I've seen for vote count is that they have the votes to block. Not sure if that means they have Murkowski too, or that they don't and are then counting on Roberts to break the tie in their way.

Gardner just put a statement out that he's a no for witnesses, so he's out. Comes down to Murkowski and Alexander it seems

1/29/2020 3:57:17 PM

Traitors and cowards

1/29/2020 6:03:54 PM

Dershowitz saying any action trump does to help his ejection helps the country and thus can’t be considered a personal benefit

Sets a dangerous precedent of political leaders can now fully lean into using the powers of the office to target their political opponents

1/29/2020 6:18:56 PM

Trump should just jail dissidents, Dershowitz argument allows him to

1/29/2020 7:09:56 PM

Anyone suspected of white collar crime should just run for president to get away with it. Schiff argument allows them to.

Quote :

"Dershowitz saying any action trump does to help his ejection helps the country and thus can’t be considered a personal benefit"

Did you switch this around or is that how he said it? I said long ago (long before he was even hired) that anything that helps the country helps his election and thus can't be considered a personal benefit.

One good rule of thumb is that if it takes 24 hours to explain why what he did was wrong, its probably not enough to impeach. Impeachment shouldn't be a referendum on who likes the president and thats how a lot of people are treating it. I've been accused of "liking" the president just because I think this impeachment case is weak. Sad that thats where we're at.

[Edited on January 29, 2020 at 7:35 PM. Reason : objectivity be damned.]

1/29/2020 7:32:41 PM

lol

1/29/2020 8:04:54 PM

I've been (unfortunately) reading FB comments as I'm watching the live feed. There are a lot of repub comments to the effect of "all witnesses and evidence should have been brought forth during the House hearing. There shall be no new evidence brought forth!"

Is there any truth to this? Seems ridiculous.

1/29/2020 8:35:56 PM

In all fairness, this is exactly why I had such a problem with the House rushing their impeachment without doing a full and thorough investigation.

They made a calculation that they shouldn't (or couldn't) afford to wait for courts (ultimately the Supreme Court) to rule in their favor with respect to subpoenas, executive privilege, etc. Instead they completely half assed it.

Granted, the evidence they already had up to the point was MORE than enough for any normal, sane, rational human being who isn't a general piece of shit to move forward with. However, knowing full and well that this was how the GOP would respond, they fucked that up royally.

I think they were also worried about losing what support and momentum they did have as we got further into the election year.

Pretty much sums up everything about both parties:
Democrats are fucking pussies
Republicans are fucking traitors

To more directly answer your question, the House is charged with investigating the President, impeaching the President and then prosecuting the case with the evidence collected during the investigation. The Senate is charged with acting as a jury.

And just to be clear, since I know people take issue with me using the word traitor (it has a very specific definition) - every one of those individuals swore an oath to our Constitution. The enemies of our Constitution are totalitarianism, lying, cheating, suppression of information, dereliction of duty and pretty much every thing else Trump and the current GOP have been doing. They are giving aid to the enemies of our Constitution and thus our nation. They are traitors.

[Edited on January 29, 2020 at 9:09 PM. Reason : a]

1/29/2020 9:05:41 PM

I don’t think waiting on subpoenas would have helped them.

I think the timing of trumps lawyers making their claims, only to have Parnas and Bolton completely blow those claims up (both directly talked to trump about these crimes) was great.

At this point this is all about public spectacle (since still unlikely 2/3rds of senate votes to convict) and this is about as best as the Dems could have hoped for. 80% of the public wants witnesses called.

Any move the gop makes now makes them rightly look bad. Also looks like this isn’t getting resolved before the SOTU and I’m betting trump has a mini meltdown as a result.

If gop doesn’t call witnesses they look bad. If they call witnesses trump looks bad. Their best case scenario is to get hunter Biden to testify but I don’t think this would blunt Parnas and Bolton testifying.

There only 2 options are to protect themselves (call witnesses) or protect trump (don’t call witnesses), I honestly don’t know what they’ll do. Times past politicians would protect themselves but we’re dealing with a cult here.

1/29/2020 10:18:13 PM

They aren’t calling witnesses, McConnell has them back in line.

Suspending the election would help Trump stay president, so it’s in the public interest. Might as well not have any more elections.

1/30/2020 7:01:11 AM

Quote :

"I said long ago (long before he was even hired) that anything that helps the country helps his election and thus can't be considered a personal benefit."

I’m going to try not to engage Earl too much anymore, but this is literally insane.

[Edited on January 30, 2020 at 7:17 AM. Reason : Wait, how does having Zelensky announce an investigation even help the country?]

1/30/2020 7:16:36 AM

The DNC perceives rigging the upcoming primary to Biden because they think he is the best chance to beat Trump and is thus in the country’s best interest is A-OK!

Also, Trump should just have his DOJ arrest Bernie on some made up charges and then drop them a week before the election. It’s all for the country so it’s fine. No complaining.

[Edited on January 30, 2020 at 7:30 AM. Reason : It’s a crazy, unconstitutional and dangerous game they are playing but at least they admit he did it]

1/30/2020 7:27:14 AM

Quote :

"Suspending the election would help Trump stay president, so it’s in the public interest. Might as well not have any more elections."

Suspending elections is not constitutional. Altering foreign policy is. Presidents can do anything within the legal parameters of their job description to make themselves look good. Thats pretty much all any president has ever done anyway.

Quote :

"Wait, how does having Zelensky announce an investigation even help the country?] "

Well we either get the extra aid money back or we send a message that politicians can no longer use the specific influence of their jobs to funnel money to themselves/children. This is a big deal similar to the lobbying/revolving door stuff that literally every populist cares about. Our fat cats are livid because they are competing with Russian oligarchs for that Ukranian gravy train and Trump is making that more difficult.

Quote :

"The DNC perceives rigging the upcoming primary to Biden because they think he is the best chance to beat Trump and is thus in the country’s best interest is A-OK!"

You're forgetting that theres more than just impeachable offenses and things that are "A-OK". Its not "A-ok" but we don't need to impeach Biden. The proper course of action is to simply boycott biden and the DNC at the voting booth until they lose enough elections to realize the American people don't like that. Why can't you do the same with Trump considering theres literally an election right around the corner? Just vote him out to show the things he did were not OK. O because you're afraid the American people are not bothered by it and will re-elect Trump anyway. Funny how theres one group who wants democracy to be decided in November and one group who wants small rooms of elites to decide everything for us.

Quote :

"Also, Trump should just have his DOJ arrest Bernie on some made up charges and then drop them a week before the election. It’s all for the country so it’s fine. No complaining. "

Bad analogy because Trump never tried to get Biden arrested nor is there any possible pathway to the arrest of an American citizen through a Ukranian investigation. Trump didn't do any of this through the DOJ. If I thought Trump tried to have Biden arrested by his DOJ, I'd admit I was wrong and Trump should be removed. If you realize that Trump did not try to have anyone arrested, will you go ahead and admit you were wrong?


In summary:
-Impeachment is reserved for "Treason, bribery or other high crimes and misdemeanors"
-Doing something shitty, mean, or just being an asshole is not impeachable
-We already have a mechanism in place for removing a president for doing bad things that are not impeachable.

[Edited on January 30, 2020 at 8:30 AM. Reason : suggested->tried to get]

1/30/2020 8:27:04 AM

Quote :

"Presidents can do anything within the legal parameters of their job description to make themselves look good."

Withholding aid passed by congress was outside the legal parameters.

1/30/2020 8:37:44 AM

Quote :

"Is there any truth to this? Seems ridiculous"

every senate impeachment in history has had witnesses

1/30/2020 8:56:42 AM

so everyone is pinning their hopes and dreams on bolton. fantastic / what could possibly go wrong?

1/30/2020 9:11:52 AM

I myself am still holding hope for an outside solution.

1/30/2020 9:31:14 AM

Quote :

"The DNC perceives rigging the upcoming primary to Biden because they think he is the best chance to beat Trump and is thus in the country’s best interest is A-OK!"

I think you gotta be President first for this argument to apply.


And Republican, too.

1/30/2020 9:39:42 AM

My examples admittedly weren’t great. It’s still insanity that Dershowitz made that argument. It essentially argues for an authoritarian state.

Quote :

" so everyone is pinning their hopes and dreams on bolton."

Not really. Just someone to tell the truth. Bolton is terrible and anyone who hires him should be criticized for it. But if he has information that is relevant he should be heard, good or bad.

1/30/2020 9:44:12 AM

did you know shitty information often comes from shitty people

1/30/2020 9:52:30 AM

https://twitter.com/evanmcmurry/status/1222913403972390914?s=21

Game over.

McConnell, like Pelosi doesn’t do this without assurances.

Trump will get his prime time “acquittal” tomorrow night.

1/30/2020 11:06:04 AM

Quote :

"Withholding aid passed by congress was outside the legal parameters. "

Was it? I'd love to hear your case because I'm not sure and this is not where the conversation has generally been.

1/30/2020 8:09:58 PM

^It was the GAO that determined that.

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/478557-gao-finds-trump-administration-broke-law-by-withholding-aid-from

1/30/2020 8:25:57 PM

Quote :

" Lamar Alexander a ‘no’ on witnesses and documents, meaning there are 50 votes against moving ahead - and likely meaning the end of the impeachment trial as soon as tomorrow night"

GOP thinking now is trump is guilty of what he is accused of but this is not serious enough to be impeachable.

“ “Alexander: There is no need for more evidence to prove something that has already been proven and that does not meet the United States Constitution’s high bar for an impeachable offense.””



[Edited on January 30, 2020 at 11:21 PM. Reason : ]

1/30/2020 11:19:51 PM

Quote :

" It was inappropriate for the president to ask a foreign leader to investigate his political opponent and to withhold United States aid to encourage that investigation. When elected officials inappropriately interfere with such investigations, it undermines the principle of equal justice under the law."

- https://twitter.com/senalexander/status/1223093589200293888?s=21

Lamar Alexander tweeted this

1/30/2020 11:28:54 PM

I’m fine with this outcome.
2/3rds were never going to vote to convict. They can’t run away from the fact now that what trump did was “improper”

Bolton and Parnas are still going to be singing their songs for the public. Democrats also can spin the vote for no more evidence as GOP being horribly corrupt.

This is all the 2nd best case outcome after 2/3rds voting to convict.

What will be interesting to see is how many embrace Lamar’s language of “inappropriate” here.

[Edited on January 31, 2020 at 12:03 AM. Reason : ]

1/30/2020 11:58:08 PM

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/01/30/joe-biden-impeachment-witness-109730

trump was never going to be removed of course but things like this are the reason the base stays pumped up.

https://apnews.com/4daf1b154eeff75b97b886e2fe8c1d29

what happens to liberal anxiety when impeachment fails and politico gives white trash talking points? i mean nevermind being nervous about the primary.

1/31/2020 6:50:46 AM

Cabbage

Then its on the democrats for not making the impeachment about that law and nothing else. They should have focused on explaining how he broke the law because the OMB says he didn't and it gets lost in the weeds of the million other points they made in their case.

Quote :

" Russ Vought ? @RussVought45 This GAO opinion comes from the same people who said we couldn’t keep National Parks open during the shutdown. Recently GAO flipped its position twice in the last few months. We wouldn’t be surprised if they reverse again. Regardless, the Admin complied with the law at every step"

This rebuttal kind of went unanswered so at the end of the day, no one is convinced. I think I speak for a lot of people when I say I don't understand the law enough to know if he broke it.


It all falls back on Pelosi not waiting for the witnesses and not properly running impeachment through the house. If you thought he broke the law, then it would have been wise to only focus on proving that and getting corroboration on that. Schiff put so many side dishes on his tray, that he couldn't even get to the main entree. Everyone zoned out after they heard what the house was impeaching him for. No one has a 12 hour attention span.

I spent the morning reading over all of the past impeachments (not just presidential) and the only one who would have been convicted for abuse of power was a judge who was ruling on behalf of his buddies in a crime ring who he had financial loyalty to.

How will the republicans look corrupt? They have nothing to gain personally by not having witnesses. They just don't want to waste time. People have been acquitted for doing things that were much more improper. This is childsplay on the historical scale of impeachable offenses.

[Edited on January 31, 2020 at 12:39 PM. Reason : k]

1/31/2020 12:25:35 PM

Bolton saying trumps impeachment lawyer, cippolone, was part of meetings on the illegal Ukraine deals.

I don’t know if this is criminal, but def seems like cippolone should be disbarred.

1/31/2020 12:26:13 PM

Quote :

" WH confirms POTUS statement to @NewsHour:“I never instructed John Bolton to set up a meeting for Rudy Giuliani, one of the greatest corruption fighters in America and by far the greatest mayor in the history of N.Y.C., to meet with President Zelensky.That meeting never happened.”"

Whitehouse in an obvious lie completely denying the Bolton meeting

Kind of amazing that even though we know this is a lie covering up crimes, we have no recourse as the voting public anymore.

1/31/2020 1:15:59 PM

Quote :

"This is all the 2nd best case outcome after 2/3rds voting to convict."

Are you high?

This is exactly what Trump wanted, to be vindicated and cleared so he can use it against the Dems in the debates and campaign trail as a hoax, sham, etc.

1/31/2020 2:47:24 PM

How is this any more vindication than hearing all the witnesses and gop still voting acquittal. This is less vindication for trump. But it saves the senators from attaching their name to a vote despite overwhelming evidence.

Senators are saying the believe trump did it. Rubio said it was impeachable what trump did but too divisive to vote for removal.

And the evidence is going to come out anyway.

[Edited on January 31, 2020 at 2:53 PM. Reason : ]

1/31/2020 2:52:37 PM