I lifted weights consistently for about 7 years before I quit the gym. So my base was pretty strong. I got to the point where I didn't care how much I could lift and wanted to look less bulky.

I do have some kettlebells and medicine balls...but I rarely use them. I'd like to get into them a little more...but my laziness combined with my time constraints forces me to just run to the local park and do workouts on the pull-up and push-up bars.

4/10/2013 3:20:53 PM

that's cool. i'm trying to get better about it. I'm playing team sports 4 nights a week, so it's hard on the other one or two to come home and want to do any kind of work out. but i've been working with resistance bands doing some circuit training with those. my core and upper body are a lot weaker than i thought

4/10/2013 3:31:51 PM

Don't need weights to gain/maintain mass, according to this guy:
http://www.rosstraining.com/nevergymless.html

Just have to eat more.

4/10/2013 4:12:15 PM

There's an upper limit to how much muscle mass you can put on with bodyweight exercises alone, but it's a pretty good start. Weights allow simpler progress (you can add 2.5 lbs at a time on any barbell exercise). If you're doing push ups/pull ups, you can change angle/grip a bit or activate muscles in a different way, but it's not going to be like adding 50 or 100 lbs to your bench press or squat.

4/10/2013 7:26:33 PM

But not everyone wants to add a lot of muscle mass. I guess the point is that you can still look good without using weights

4/10/2013 8:15:28 PM

I wish getting too big and muscular was as easy as people make it sound.

4/10/2013 8:54:59 PM

Unless you have injuries or medical/genetic issues, it's pretty much common sense. And if you're clueless, proper use of google should be able to answer most of your questions.

4/10/2013 9:03:05 PM

I binged out last night at the 'Canes game... set me back a bunch of lbs with water weight . Came back strong today keeping my intake under 1,300 calories and carbs <50grams.

The plan is to stay low carb and around a 500-750 calorie deficit through the rest of the week. Hopefully peak down to 169lbs.

~7 weeks until my travel deadline, so I need to average about 1.25lbs a week of weight loss. I hope to make that as much body fat as possible!

[Edited on April 10, 2013 at 9:35 PM. Reason : 1300]

4/10/2013 9:34:36 PM

Quote :

"But not everyone wants to add a lot of muscle mass. I guess the point is that you can still look good without using weights"

This is ultimately an aesthetic judgement, but I happen to think almost all men look better with about as much muscle as they can put on naturally. No one gets "huge" on accident, especially if you're a regular white dude with mediocre genetics.

4/10/2013 10:15:25 PM

I guess this picture is relevant to the current discussion:

4/10/2013 10:42:35 PM

At a certain point, you just have body dismorphia and are working out for other dudes. Most girls prefer and athletic build like soccer players.

It do believe it is some way encoded in our (female) genes to be attracted males with strong, muscular, broad shoulders; they serve as an indication that the male is strong enough to protect the offsprings.

4/10/2013 10:58:31 PM

Quote :

"Most girls prefer and athletic build like soccer players."

[citation needed]

4/10/2013 11:09:11 PM

Tons of girls always say that in the midst of these discussions. Then all the guys are like "nuh uh, you really like guys who are super swole, you just don't know it."

4/10/2013 11:18:17 PM

Quote :

"but I happen to think almost all men look better with about as much muscle as they can put on naturally."

But you're a dude...majority of women have the acraw and Skwinkle POV.

Girls like muscles...just not too much of them.

Quote :

" "

I still don't see where I'm wrong.

4/11/2013 6:36:05 AM

Quote :

"I still don't see where I'm wrong."

You didn't make any claims except getting too big and muscular is common sense. Which isn't something that can be wrong or right since that is a semi-opinion. The general population seems to disagree with you, since there is a enormous market for it.

Furthermore, you make the claim that you prefer body weight training and think it is great way to put on muscle mass, when you have 7 years of weight training experience. The efficacy of body weight training for lean mass building is going to be much lower for someone who hasn't put in 7 years of training. Muscle memory is a real phenomenon from the creation of new muscle fiber nuclei in the muscle... when you detrain those nuclei stick around making it easier to put on mass. This most likely augmented your body weight training.

Quote :

"At a certain point, you just have body dismorphia and are working out for other dudes. Most girls prefer and athletic build like soccer players."

The same can be said for women and make-up. I train for strength and aesthetics. My goal is to look better and be functionally stronger than 90%+ of the population.

I think the issue here is that the average person and female that claims that they don't want to get too big and muscular (or a guy who is too big) are using professional bodybuilders, who generally use copious amounts of drugs AND have 5+ years of training experience, as their reference point. The amount of muscle mass they carry at the level of leanness is generally impossible to get to with out AAS.

If you look at the regression models and predictors of maximal lean body mass for natural trainees, the size and freakishness is almost non existent. Learn more here: http://www.weightrainer.net/potential.html

[Edited on April 11, 2013 at 8:17 AM. Reason : experience]

4/11/2013 8:06:21 AM

My point was that being/getting in shape was common sense. I think you read a little too much into my comments.

4/11/2013 8:09:37 AM

Quote :

"At a certain point, you just have body dismorphia and are working out for other dudes. Most girls prefer and athletic build like soccer players."

There was a time when I stayed away from the gym because I just wanted a "ripped and athletic" look and figured that could be accomplished through running and bodyweight stuff. Then I realized that, a 6' 3" guy with not the smallest of waists, I couldn't get there without weights.

The problem is that there's a disconnect between what the average non-lifter/bodybuilding thinks of as "huge" or "a ton of muscle" and what can actually be achieved by a natural trainee, especially in the course of a few years. The idea that getting big is just a matter of showing up to the gym and putting weight on the bar is silly to anyone that has actually tried to do it.

Take this dude, Clarence Kennedy. He can probably lift more than anyone on this forum:



If that's "too bulky" to anyone, I don't know what to say.

Quote :

"My point was that being/getting in shape was common sense."

Most of the country is overweight or obese, so...

[Edited on April 11, 2013 at 9:06 AM. Reason : ]

4/11/2013 8:58:37 AM

I absolutely don't think lifting weights is bad for either sex, or that lifting = getting bulky. I lift. My fiancé lifts. I wouldn't want it any other way. But where we disagree is that building more muscle up to a guy's natural potential always ideal. I think that's what acraw was saying too.

4/11/2013 9:06:35 AM

Quote :

"Most of the country is overweight or obese, so..."

And most of those obese people would tell you that they don't exercise enough and don't eat well.

Most of the country is lazy.

4/11/2013 9:11:52 AM

I agree with acraw and Skwinkle. The body type that I prefer? Tennis players and soccer players. Lean and fit.

4/11/2013 10:17:16 AM

pfffft. i'd take the rock all day any day. well the one on the left. super hulked out version is just scary.

4/11/2013 10:24:55 AM

Same.

4/11/2013 6:33:02 PM

Swimmers body. Wins everytime

4/11/2013 7:55:24 PM

i lifted this morning (did legs) and then went on a 7 mile run this evening. it was one of those runs where i felt like i could just keep going. i love those runs.

4/11/2013 10:02:29 PM

So i havent bought starting strength but im pretty familiar with it from reading the wiki and all. Decided to try to learn the big lifts again so i squatted and did deadlift (albeit real light weights because last time i think i started too heavy and thats why it didnt really work). Anyone else here doing starting strength right now?

I did squat and deadlift (and bench and pullups) yesterday and i think i pretty much got the motion/technique down. Squatting always feels weird the weight feels so light for 95% of the motion but im weak as fuck right at the bottom because ive never done much with legs to protect my knee. I only did 115 because last time i did squats i injured my groin by like the 4th workout and it took forever to go away so instead ive just been trying to do a lot of reps and sets to build the muscle memory and all.

Next up i need to learn power clean, i think ive got overhead press pretty much down. Matt, I've noticed some people take issue with the way Ripp teaches powerclean. Any knowledge/advice on his methodology vs others?


Most interested to see what kind of gains i get in bench press. For whatever reason that's always been the lift I never seem to get any stronger on and im always significantly weak at relative to my other lifts vs peers.

I did 10 chinups finally, i think going from 10 to 15 will be relatively easy to do in another 2 weeks or so and then i'll start doing weighted chin ups.

I'm going to try to not drink quite as often and get 8 hours sleep most nights, but im willing to let those things mitigate my performance gains. It has been really nice eating again, but i freaking hate watching the gut come back slowly. It's really hard to eat ~3,000 calories a day without increasing your saturated fat intake rather substantially and being a total nazi for food choices. I'm not in my permanent residence yet and i kinda hate cooking and having to clean in a temp apartment that is constantly being shown to potential renters.

[Edited on April 12, 2013 at 5:40 PM. Reason : a]

4/12/2013 5:39:06 PM

Rip's power clean technique is for general strength --> power conversion. It's not for oly lifting. Hence why so many people hate on it. I use it and like it. Before my achilles rupture I was up to about 250x1 on it.

I would buy and read the book.

4/12/2013 6:25:36 PM

Another fact or myth question.

Regarding dairy. If you're wanting to lose weight, cut off all dairy, including non-fat and whey because it can spike your insulin, thus making your body less efficient in burning fat.

If this is true, what is in the composition of milk that causes insulin spike? According to wikipedia, it's just a bunch of globulins. And this is not taking account the natural sugar in milk.

4/12/2013 7:35:39 PM

Ive never heard anything about it and it certainly sounds like a myth but I cant confirm or deny it completely.

I mean milk will spike your insulin as it contains sugar and protein but no more so than other food items with similar profiles.

Milk isn't the worst food to cut out on a diet because of the sugar but its not a horrible choice imo.

Its definitely good to cut out if you have digestive issues or acne. And definitely good to consume on mass gaining phases

4/12/2013 7:57:44 PM

What do baby mammals drink to grow? Milk!

Whole milk is pretty much a perfect concoction for growth. However, it all comes down to total calories and macronutrients.

You can have as much milk as you want and lose weight if you are hitting a calorie deficit.

4/12/2013 9:08:49 PM

I mean, they drink milk from their species, and only for a very short time - it's typically not a staple of their diet throughout life. I've all but cut out dairy, but I was never a big milk guy to begin with.

Personally, I don't like to drink my calories; something about chewing triggers satiation for me.

4/12/2013 9:23:08 PM

Rookie mistakes in the gym...

4/13/2013 8:48:54 AM

^^^^Why not just do clean pulls? Same explosive motion, less chance of injury.

4/13/2013 10:32:03 AM

That video is amazing.

Too many good quotes to mention all at once.

4/13/2013 11:14:16 AM

^^ It's not the same motion.

Clean pulls generally turn into explosive arm pulls from the floor.

What makes them safer?

4/13/2013 12:33:18 PM

that video is pretty fucking funny but disagree with the 2.5 lb weights. Adding weight to the bar is the best way to progress. I stall out real fast when i try to go up by 10lbs at a time.

Rippetoe has 1 lb weights and even magnets he uses in starting strength. Pretty sure he's not a pussy.

4/13/2013 1:38:55 PM

gay

4/13/2013 1:55:41 PM

w00t! 9 miles today! it was so nice out this morning.

trying to stay focused on my diet stuff - eating clean, watching my carbs. i've become incredibly sensitive to sugar/fructose so i think it's time i find an endocrinologist here and have him run some bloodwork just to make sure my insides are functioning properly. it's just tough sine i loved my endocrinologist in Raleigh. anyone know if i could roll into an urgent care and have them at least check my blood sugar?

i keep getting really bad night sweats at night - moreso if i have had anything with sugar/fructose after 3pm. it's to the point where i am waking up completely soaking wet. i also notice those nights i have a lot of problems with my arms going numb more frequently so this is causing a lot of sleep interruption. i did some googling and it keeps talking about blood sugar levels so i am curious to see if mine are still normal.

4/13/2013 1:57:06 PM

^ Dude, I have the same nightsweat / numb arm problem. Let me know what you find out!

I don't even have to be laying on them / my side for the arms to go numb, either.



[Edited on April 13, 2013 at 2:08 PM. Reason : just noticed it the past few weeks]

4/13/2013 2:05:20 PM

I didn't understand the point he was making about not drinking from a shaker, other than a waterjug is better for the image of a bro.

4/13/2013 2:23:06 PM

Quote :

"^^ It's not the same motion. Clean pulls generally turn into explosive arm pulls from the floor. What makes them safer?"

No idea. The guys who program my workouts said they generally only advise clean pulls unless dudes are really wanting to get into O-lifts, as you can get all the explosive movement you need from clean pulls without as great a risk of injury.

Could just be the clientele though.

Edit: I should've phrased my earlier comment differently. I'm just an end-user, not an expert.

[Edited on April 13, 2013 at 2:26 PM. Reason : a]

4/13/2013 2:26:21 PM

I hope you guys realize that video is satire. Although he does hit on some truth.

4/13/2013 7:30:21 PM

cant believe how much better i am at pushups after losing that weight. I wanna say i was doing like 25 before now i can crank 50 easy which is right around my all-time high back when i was like basically no bodyfat and weight trained all the time...

I think i can do like 25 closed grip pushups (usually do several sets of like 15 of those for whatever reason instead).

I don't do pushups often usually just when i REALLY dont feel like going to the gym or cant make it before it closes or something.

Any advice on a good pushup routine? My goals right now are to get stronger first before moving into bodybuilding type stuff.

I feel like doing 50 pushups is kinda a waste of time and i might lose too much strength with that kind of volume... ive been doing a few with my legs on the bed which makes it a little harder so the reps go down a good bit i figure that helps

[Edited on April 13, 2013 at 7:50 PM. Reason : s]

4/13/2013 7:50:06 PM

^I can't do more than a handful of push ups unless I'm 160 or less. And I mean legit push ups, not girly ones - I can do them shits ALL DAY.

And milk...

Milk is not as amazing as the dairy industry makes it out to be, and not as bad as the PETA-types make it out to be.

After I got off the pill, my face started to break out like I was going through puberty. I heard some stuff about hormones in milk and acne, so I did some research and switched to soy/flax/coconut "milks" and there's been a noticeable improvement. I used to drink about 3 servings per day, now I'm around 1 serving/day of milk alternative. I still get zits, but not the breakouts I was getting.

It depends on how much you're drinking, they type you're drinking, why you're drinking it, etc. But concerning insulin spikes and weight loss.... I've never heard that, and it doesn't make a lot of sense (like face pointed out, food consumption results in an insulin response).

Please keep us updated on your findings/experiences with milk if this was a personal question.

[Edited on April 14, 2013 at 6:46 PM. Reason : bitches love me cause they know that I can rock]

4/14/2013 6:40:46 PM

The whole milk thing has nothing to do with insulin.

"Back in the day", bodybuilders consumed large quantities of dairy when bulking. In order to lean out, they simple cut out the milk (lots of calories).

So naturally, the dogma was created that milk made you fat (bulk) and if you wanted to lean out you should cut it out.

Dairy also causes issues for people without them realizing it. Many have ill effects from it without realizing it (bloat). Only way to know for sure (same with gluten) is to cut it out for 7-10 days and then reintroduce it and see what happens.

4/14/2013 7:34:34 PM

4/14/2013 9:24:26 PM

Quote :

"^ Dude, I have the same nightsweat / numb arm problem. Let me know what you find out! I don't even have to be laying on them / my side for the arms to go numb, either."

same here. i had a round of bloodwork done and everything came back normal. meanwhile i am waking up in the morning and my eyes are so swollen, i have a hard time opening them (not seasonal allergies). i wish i could figure out this trigger, it would make life a lot easier.

this morning i did chest and triceps and then this evening i did low impact cardio. i've been running a lot lately and i can feel it in my legs today so my goal is to try to run every other day. i'm going to see if i can hook up with one of the running groups around here - i heard they meet up on tuesdays and thursdays.

4/15/2013 8:03:45 PM

Starting strength is pretty cool, my weights are shooting up like crazy so far. Im not gonna do power cleans and i probably wont get 8 hours sleep or stop drinking but im still eating a lot of pizza and stuff.

RIP fat loss

4/15/2013 9:00:51 PM

^If you aren't over eating, the weight you gain should be <50% fat which will actually cause your body fat % to go down.

4/16/2013 8:58:45 AM

Quote :

"same here. i had a round of bloodwork done and everything came back normal. meanwhile i am waking up in the morning and my eyes are so swollen, i have a hard time opening them (not seasonal allergies). i wish i could figure out this trigger, it would make life a lot easier. "

I've had basically the same thing in past. What exactly are your diet staples since you've eliminated so much? What does a typical day of eating look like for you? What does a bad "cheat day" look like?

4/16/2013 9:19:21 AM

^^ lol thats not true matt. But ill let you slide on this one math error

If Im say 15% body fat and gain 20 lbs of which 3 are fat id stay at 15%. If its anymore my body fat will increase


Im ok with the increase I know its necessary to build muscle efficiently and its nice to eat again. Ill probably go rip girlfriend early june

4/16/2013 2:15:07 PM