You know maybe Marky Mark and the Rock both got on a cycle or two of roids since they were making a movie about dudes on roids and wanted to go all out for the part.

4/29/2013 9:02:26 AM

Honestly, who really gives a shit if they were on roids or not?

4/29/2013 9:40:23 AM

Quote :

"I remember Lyle McDonald saying something about better to just create a large calorie deficit(eat less) for weight loss. Didn't he also say that it would be easier on the calorie deficit than what the average person burns with excercise; the amount burned is insignificant that we are actually overestimating."

Well, he does recommend large calorie deficits, but only in some instances and for short periods: http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/setting-the-deficit-small-moderate-or-large.html

The larger the deficit and the longer you keep it up, the greater the risk that you "stunt" your metabolism, it seems.

Quote :

"For an overweight person, my thought is, it would be better to create a calorie deficit than go on a keto diet ( which I think it's a bit extreme). And a person who is fitter and has a decent amount of lean body mass already, I think would utilize the dietary fats easier for fat burning than a fat person."

Well, either way you're going to need to create a calorie deficit, but the ideal macronutrient breakdown is personal preference. Keto avoids the empty, unsatisfying carbs, which makes diet compliance much easier for a lot of people.

4/29/2013 9:52:22 AM

How long is the adaptation period, where the body becomes accustomed to using dietary fats and not carbs? I'm sure it varies person to person but give me an idea of a timeframe.

4/29/2013 11:03:01 AM

Supposedly it takes a few weeks to become fully "fat adapted". I cycle carbs but never go below about 100g per day.

4/29/2013 11:11:46 AM

Try lowering your intake slowly. Go to 100g for a few days then 50g then cut to 20-25g for a few days and see how you feel. I feel fine. Better actually because carbs make me sleepy.

Increase your fiber and non digestible and I think you'll feel fine.

Its time to get serious. Im going to bulk for three more weeks before crash dieting down to 10% body fat.

Today I should hit 185x5 squat and 205x5 deadlift at 165 lb bodyweight. I wish id started doing these exercises earlier they are kinda fun and showing great results already despite the low weights im starting with. Hoping to be 225x5 squat and 315x5 deadlift before I start cut in 3 weeks.

Been putting in 5-8 mile walks a couple times a week to try to limit fat gain deposits while im eating 2, 500-3, 000 calories everyday and drinking 1-2k calories at night.

4/29/2013 12:36:49 PM

for MattJMM2, d357r0y3r, et al:

http://www.gymjones.com/knowledge/article/300-opinions/

Quote :

"And if that limited practice has convinced you anyone better than you is so because of drugs or because they won the genetic lottery or they have better equipment, you may be right. But it's a lot more likely they are better than you precisely because of your cop-out opinion, because you are lazy, or confused about the meaning of hard work and diet control."

Quote :

"Or do you accept the know-it-all's statement that CGI or drugs or years of effort or genetics were responsible because it lets you off the hook?"

Though I know I'll still hear the same -worthy denial statements from the same QUOTE "know-it-alls" UNQUOTE, anyways.


Regardless (unsure if I've posted that one here before) it's one of the best (and truest) pieces of reading I've encountered in my life

4/29/2013 12:47:54 PM

^why such staunch emphasis on your point? tons of people use steroids and there are obvious signs to look for.

there's a difference between being jealous of someone's physique and acknowledging telltale signs someone is juicing.

[Edited on April 29, 2013 at 1:19 PM. Reason : .]

4/29/2013 1:16:21 PM

Yeah, but I'm not looking for excuses, I'm always looking for ways to improve my diet and training. Even if my routine isn't optimal (it almost never is), I'm dedicated. That article was written to address Joe Blow doing curls and the elliptical for 30 minutes every two weeks, then attributes any developed physique to genetics and steroids. I know how much work and time it takes to build muscle. I understand it so well that when someone makes a statement like, "I'm not trying to get too big", I have a hard time taking them seriously.

[Edited on April 29, 2013 at 1:19 PM. Reason : ]

4/29/2013 1:18:57 PM

At the least, it gives me an excuse to share a great article (he said, quite staunchly)

At best, I get to watch all the detractors/knowitalls stroke each other's denial-egos

[Edited on April 29, 2013 at 1:25 PM. Reason : "that article is obviously talking about everyone except me"]

4/29/2013 1:20:02 PM

Totally achievable natty, guys. You just have to work hard, eat clean, and get plenty of protein. No excuses.

4/29/2013 1:32:46 PM

SamplingBias.jpg

Quote :

"you may be right. But it's a lot more likely they are better than you"

4/29/2013 1:36:13 PM

I'm not arguing that I'm better than anyone. Someone that has been training hard for 5 years, drugs or no drugs, is stronger and more developed than I am.

Gerard Butler doesn't even look like he's juicing in 300.



Just looks like a moderately strong and lean guy.

4/29/2013 1:40:17 PM

More or less, it's simply addressing the kind of knee-jerk attribution bias often seen in the athletic world. The responses to the Wahlberg pics reminded me of it.

Plus, there's a lot of truth in it, and not just for Joe Schmoe couch potatoes, but also for the mightier-than-thou types who spew "advice" and "knowledge" nonstop.

[Edited on April 29, 2013 at 1:47 PM. Reason : posted from the confines of my bed, ironically ]

4/29/2013 1:45:20 PM

Look at the pictures of the guys in your article.... They just look skinnier, except for one guy who looks like he put on some gains in the chest, shoulders, and arms. Those are all feasible results and can be done by anyone on this board.

My only comments about steroids ITT are regarding how ridiculous the notion of "getting too big" is. It is not something that happens: 1. Easily 2. Realistically (unless you are putting on large amounts of body fat, aka eating like shit)

Not once have I ever used the reasoning of it being outside of the realm of possible as an excuse not to train hard. If anything I am one of the few people who actively encourages people to remove cardio training time in favor of strength and proper nutrition strategies.

4/29/2013 2:10:35 PM

No accusations - I should have clarified that I addressed that article to you and Destroyer because I think it was you two that inspired my comments on the previous page.

Nothing more, nothing less.

[Edited on April 29, 2013 at 2:18 PM. Reason : But it's just a good article all around, dammit!]

4/29/2013 2:17:14 PM

I was working out 3-4 days a week (usually lifting weights followed by about 20 minutes of cardio) and doing yoga a few days a week. At the same time I was working as a bartender, which meant lots of working on my feet and running around, trying to eat healthy but since food was always readily available and in my face it was hard to resist, I usually ended up cheating or just being like fuck it my diet for the day is ruined I'm going to eat whatever.

A week ago I started a desk job, 9-5. I sit around all day. I have been bringing my lunch so eating healthier, but I also move a lot less and getting use to a completely different schedule has killed my gym motivation. The weird part is I immediately dropped about 4 lbs the first week at this new job.

I am worried that sitting around and not going to the gym for the last few weeks has me losing muscle mass and the weight drop isn't fat loss. Is that reasonable? How long does it take to start losing muscle?

For reference I am 5'4 and went from around 120 to around 115-116. I weigh myself at the same time everyday so I don't think it's water weight or other variables.

4/29/2013 9:33:11 PM

If it was a dramatically fast weight loss, it was probably water. Unless you went very low calorie and low protein. for a few days in a row.

Are you sleeping better? If yes, you probably lost some water due to lowered cortisol levels.

4/29/2013 9:40:02 PM

Quote :

"I understand it so well that when someone makes a statement like, "I'm not trying to get too big", I have a hard time taking them seriously."

hahaha, i agree completely. they must think after lifting weights, they will go to bed and wake up the next morning vis-a-vis tobey maguire in spider-man.

4/29/2013 10:28:35 PM

195x5 squat but I missed on my 205x5 deadlift. Cardio is the fucking devil and you shouldn't do it.

Also had two twelve hour drink a thons this weekend which could've played a part.

Do you guys continue to hook up a lot when youre trying to bulk? I feel like the loss of sleep and the calorie expenditure of all the late nights might be affecting my gains

4/29/2013 10:55:29 PM

Quote :

"Do you guys continue to hook up a lot when youre trying to bulk? "

lol wtf?

Quote :

"I feel like the loss of sleep and the calorie expenditure of all the late nights might be affecting my gains"

and uhhhh, duh.

4/29/2013 11:09:42 PM

Quote :

"Do you guys continue to hook up a lot when youre trying to bulk?"

I get super gassy and my face looks like a pepperoni pizza when I'm bulking, so no. Unless it's with a chick who is also trying to bulk. We just rub Noxzema all over our bodies and fart the night away, it's magical

4/30/2013 7:08:56 AM

Layne Norton has a new video about metabolic damage (and reversing it - rebuilding metabolic capacity):



Some of what he says here I think applies to some of you in this thread, especially ladies. If you're eating 1000-1200 calories a day and not losing weight or actually gaining weight, something isn't right. Years of dieting and excessive cardio has probably reduced your metabolism. He says that you can't reverse this by continuing to cut/eat at a deficit, you have to slowly add in calories to restore metabolic capacity.

4/30/2013 8:27:53 AM

Quote :

"I get super gassy and my face looks like a pepperoni pizza when I'm bulking, so no. Unless it's with a chick who is also trying to bulk. We just rub Noxzema all over our bodies and fart the night away, it's magical"

Haha my bf and I enjoy farting and rubbing icy hot on eat other. It's great foreplay.

4/30/2013 10:50:44 AM

just be careful where that icy hot goes!

4/30/2013 12:40:41 PM

So I just started lifting weights again after a long hiatus and am looking for a good tracking/logging App for the weight room. I had been using Gymbook for the Iphone, but when I bought it 4 years ago it was buggy, and apparently its even worse now, with no new functions.

I'm hoping to find something simple that lets me record weight, reps, sets and notes for each exercise plus a timer for rests.

4/30/2013 2:10:02 PM

I found MyFitnessPal to be pretty useful for a free app

4/30/2013 2:19:07 PM

Yeah I use MyFitnessPal as a food and calorie tracker. It's a great app, but it's not quite what I'm looking for as a weightroom log.

I get up real early and head to the gym to get a workout in before the wife and kid wake up. Having something that will let me build a routine the night or week before so that all I have to do is open my workout and check off as I do each set at the preset weight. I haven't used MyFitnessPal to record in the weight room, but from playing with it, it looks like I have to enter each exercise separately as I do them and there's not a place for notes.

4/30/2013 3:05:39 PM

the topics most likely to get people shitting out of their keyboards onto the internet
1: Politics
2: Religion
3: Circumcision ... for some reason its always gross women doing the wikipedia copypasta

I propose we add nutrition to this list.

everybody and their fucking brother knows everything about nutrion.

Not only that, but anyone not posting a supplement ad clipping at that instant knows nothing about nutrition and are idiots.


[Edited on May 1, 2013 at 7:57 AM. Reason : s]

5/1/2013 7:54:52 AM

Quote :

"it looks like I have to enter each exercise separately as I do them and there's not a place for notes."

true...i had my workout routine pretty much memorized so i would just record sets/reps/weight for each exercise during my rest period between sets. the main complaint i had was that it didn't have all the exercises I wanted to do.

5/1/2013 8:21:54 AM

Just crushed a stubborn fat loss work out...

5 minute mobility prehab and warm up
10 Minutes HIIT on the Prowler MaxEffort Sprints / Walk-jog recovery
20 Minutes Steady State Medium-Easy Effort on the Airdyne Bike

The abz are coming out hard... now the only remaining fat is the stubborn area around my lower back and love handles. Should be gone after about 3-4 more lbs over the next 3-4 weeks.

Can't wait to get this cut over with so I can eat pizza, cookies and ice cream again

5/1/2013 9:00:50 AM

Confessing my stupidity didn't make me feel better.

[Edited on May 2, 2013 at 2:00 PM. Reason : whoops]

5/2/2013 1:50:25 PM

Get my jacket let out, or attempt to lose enough weight in one week.

Crunch time. (no pun intended)

5/2/2013 8:24:49 PM

Hit the 5x205 deadlift today. Really wish id started these sooner its morvating to see how quickly you go up and my lower back feels great at my desk from my improved hamstring strength

5/2/2013 9:36:11 PM

Does anyone still use creatine? I don't see it discussed much anymore...

5/3/2013 8:01:21 AM

^ is relative to my interests. I've been doing HIIT 6 days a week and my weakness right now is muscle fatigue. Wondering if creatine will give me that extra push.

5/3/2013 8:24:13 AM

Yes I use it. Its imperative if youre trying to build strength and you hang out in that 5 rep range

5/3/2013 8:39:32 AM

Creatine: If you are doing any strength training, then you'd benefit from supplementing 5g/daily of creatine monohyrdate.

5/3/2013 8:49:00 AM

ok so general rule of thumb is creatine for strength training...got it.

can we talk a little bit about protein intake. I've been shooting for about 100g of protein a day. Half of that is through diet, the other half through protein supplements. there seems to be a wide range of thought regarding how much protein intake is appropriate. Matt, do you have an equation you use to manage protein intake?

5/3/2013 8:57:24 AM

~1gram/lb of lean body weight. 100grams is a good minimum to shoot for, especially if you are in a calorie deficit.

The traditional recommendation is 1gram/lb of body weight but I think that is a little high. If you are mass gaining, its actually not as important.

The reason you want to uptick protein during calorie deficit is to prevent muscle breakdown. Your body will break down muscles to use the amino acids for energy and maintenance.

5/3/2013 11:09:36 AM

There are more kinds of creatine now. From what I read a while ago creatine ethyl ester is better than regular creatine.

5/3/2013 11:14:02 AM

^^Curious to why you think 1gm/lb is not important when bulking. I'm not questioning you just wanted some logic behind it

5/3/2013 11:42:51 AM

^^^ hey thanks! I am on a calorie deficient diet right now and i have about 135 lb of lean muscle so i may bump it up a bit.

5/3/2013 12:40:07 PM

If youre trying to gain muscle I shoot for 1g per lb or 1.3g lbm. That way if youre short occasionally youre okay.


If you are trying to burn fat on a low carb diet you need to increase the protein though or you will catabolize muscle.

5/3/2013 1:02:52 PM

Protein is a proirity when losing weight if you want to maintain lean mass. This is because your body catabolizes muscle very quickly if it is underfed.

When building muscle, protein is important, but not as much as total energy intake. And, going high protein will limit your hunger, possibly preventing you from eating enough to grow.

Plus, carb sources tend to be cheaper than protein. It will be easier and more economical to hit your calorie requirements going higher carb to hit your calorie surplus when looking to grow.

5/3/2013 1:48:15 PM

thanks guys! not looking to grow. leaning out right now.

5/3/2013 4:11:10 PM

If youre looking to tone then eating at a caloric deficit while doing HIIT isnt the best combination.

For one its hard on your body to recover from such strenuous exercise on low calories so you over fatigue and cause injuries and burn out.

#2 no way around it youre going to lose a lot of muscle with the fat if you due high volume or high intensity cardio while in caloric deficit.


Its similar to the people who do crossfit type workouts while dieting. You dont wanna train for endurance while you arent eating enough. Fat is relatively easy to lose as most people can diet down to 15% in 1-3 months. Cardiovascular shape is the easiest with huge results coming in just a few weeks. Its just not worth it to alow yourself to lose lbm.

To "tone" your best bet is a diet low in fats, relatively low in carbs, high in protein while lifting as heavy as possible, infrequently, with low volume of sets and high rest time between sets

In the grand scheme of things muscle is really difficult to build so you want to preserve as much as possible. Fat is easy to lose

5/3/2013 5:10:46 PM

I'm def keeping a close watch on my protein, carb and fat intake making sure to get just enough carbs to get through my workout with out fatigue. I eat about an hour before my workout and then take a recovery shake right after. Also eating 5 meals a day to boost my metabolism. I'm going to stick with the plan for two months and I should see some significant results.

5/3/2013 7:26:29 PM

Quote :

"Some of what he says here I think applies to some of you in this thread, especially ladies. If you're eating 1000-1200 calories a day and not losing weight or actually gaining weight, something isn't right. Years of dieting and excessive cardio has probably reduced your metabolism. He says that you can't reverse this by continuing to cut/eat at a deficit, you have to slowly add in calories to restore metabolic capacity."

I'm having a hard time finding any peer review to support my theory that it's the cycles of prednisone I was on during my back injury.

It would be helpful if you have anything.

I still plan on going to a physician, but I'd like to have some information first before she just ends up calling me a crazy woman and it's just all in my head.

5/3/2013 7:46:19 PM

Quote :

"Also eating 5 meals a day to boost my metabolism."

Explain to me how this works...

5/3/2013 9:43:59 PM