I'm just happy he doesn't subject us to the weird places he visits on the internet.

10/25/2017 12:18:57 AM

sanders has a higher approval rating than clinton even among clinton voters

10/25/2017 9:27:00 AM

Inside Hillary Clinton’s Secret Takeover of the DNC
When I was asked to run the Democratic Party after the Russians hacked our emails, I stumbled onto a shocking truth about the Clinton campaign.
By DONNA BRAZILE November 02, 2017
https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/11/02/clinton-brazile-hacks-2016-215774

Quote :

"Before I called Bernie Sanders, I lit a candle in my living room and put on some gospel music. I wanted to center myself for what I knew would be an emotional phone call. I had promised Bernie when I took the helm of the Democratic National Committee after the convention that I would get to the bottom of whether Hillary Clinton’s team had rigged the nomination process, as a cache of emails stolen by Russian hackers and posted online had suggested. I’d had my suspicions from the moment I walked in the door of the DNC a month or so earlier, based on the leaked emails. But who knew if some of them might have been forged? I needed to have solid proof, and so did Bernie. So I followed the money. My predecessor, Florida Rep. Debbie Wasserman Schultz, had not been the most active chair in fundraising at a time when President Barack Obama’s neglect had left the party in significant debt. As Hillary’s campaign gained momentum, she resolved the party’s debt and put it on a starvation diet. It had become dependent on her campaign for survival, for which she expected to wield control of its operations. Debbie was not a good manager. She hadn’t been very interested in controlling the party—she let Clinton’s headquarters in Brooklyn do as it desired so she didn’t have to inform the party officers how bad the situation was. How much control Brooklyn had and for how long was still something I had been trying to uncover for the last few weeks. By September 7, the day I called Bernie, I had found my proof and it broke my heart. [...] "

11/2/2017 11:50:00 AM

Damn I had no clue about the bankruptcy/take over.

11/2/2017 11:52:59 AM

It certainly seems to me that a lot of the establishment Dems are trying to come clean in front of another Bernie run in 2020.

On the plus side of this is coming from her that surely means curtains for the Clintons as power brokers in the party.

11/2/2017 11:59:49 AM

Wonder how the die hard "I'm With Her"s will rationalize this.

11/2/2017 12:02:36 PM

Surely Bernie is too old now to consider another run right?

11/2/2017 12:02:42 PM

I'm a die hard Bernie fan but I really hope that someone younger comes along who shares his same ideology and convictions. If that doesn't happen though I'll happily vote for Sanders again.

Sanders probably hopes the same, I bet he doesn't want to have to run again too

[Edited on November 2, 2017 at 12:07 PM. Reason : .]

11/2/2017 12:06:29 PM

I think the closest the Dems have to a younger one with a shot is either Elizabeth Warren or Corey Booker.

There's no one else in the pipeline (of which I'm aware) at the moment. Plus, they may actually lean back on Biden for the next election. I think it'll take another presidential cycle or two before they develop new blood.

11/2/2017 12:08:37 PM

i don't think warren is energetic enough, and she would also be in her 70's

no way to booker, he's not even close to be a progressive replacement

[Edited on November 2, 2017 at 12:16 PM. Reason : biden is only 2 years younger than sanders]

11/2/2017 12:16:08 PM

I didn't know Biden/Sanders were so close in age. I mean from my standpoint, age doesn't matter to me. But from an average voter point of view, who knows.

11/2/2017 12:18:12 PM

That article is believable, I want to believe that's how it went down, but I'm still skeptical. Like it's just as likely this is an effort to excuse the DNC board and throw DWS under the bus for the actions of the DNC. No one else on the board understood the finances or who was in control of finances preceding a major election? DWS was the only one making major financial decisions for the DNC? That seems hard to believe.

I'd like to see Bernie corroborate this phone call and I'd like to hear DWS's and Hillary's response.

11/2/2017 12:19:20 PM

i loved bernie for years but not sure i could get behind him again. id want to vote for him but not sure if i can trust him. people who betray you once usually betray you again.

not sure about warren either but would also consider voting. i guess it all depends on how bad trump ends up being.

11/2/2017 1:51:56 PM

earl'd

11/2/2017 2:39:01 PM

earl'd

11/2/2017 2:39:01 PM

What did he do to break your trust exactly?

11/2/2017 4:20:52 PM

how did he betray you or the public?

11/2/2017 4:36:17 PM

well he chose to align himself with the democratic party. specifically, he prioritized becoming part of the party's establishment over the progressive policies that made him popular in the first place. i think he has been compromised. he is a sheep dog at best and im afraid he will deal a death blow to the movement.

11/2/2017 5:02:00 PM

did you want him to run as an independent and have a guaranteed loss?

11/2/2017 5:12:17 PM

Tulsi’d

11/2/2017 6:24:30 PM

Quote :

"I'm a die hard Bernie fan but I really hope that someone younger comes along who shares his same ideology and convictions. If that doesn't happen though I'll happily vote for Sanders again. "

Quote :

"I think the closest the Dems have to a younger one with a shot is either Elizabeth Warren or Corey Booker."

Quote :

"i don't think warren is energetic enough, and she would also be in her 70's"

The Warren/Booker ticket is exactly the dream team I've been asking for since before Bernie's campaign took off in 2015, except that Booker was too inexperienced at the time but I'm absolutely ready for him now. Warren will be younger in 2020 than Bernie was in 2016, so I don't see what the problem is.

As soon as the 2018 midterms are done, I hope Warren will announce for 2020 and that Bernie will be there to endorse her on the spot.

11/2/2017 6:46:02 PM

I think Warren would be an effective leader and she would be my first choice, but I don't know about her electability. I certainly like her a hell of a lot more than Bernie, but how does she poll?

11/2/2017 7:21:24 PM

Quote :

"did you want him to run as an independent and have a guaranteed loss?"

No, using the democratic party as a vehicle to run on seemed like a good idea but it didn't mean he had to sellout after he lost the nomination.

11/2/2017 7:22:11 PM

^^Most recent polling I can find is from August, Warren is +9 over Trump, better than any of the other rumored Democratic candidates. But I think we can all stop looking at the national number as worthless, we have to see state-by-state numbers.

I think Warren unites the democratic party and swings a huge number of independents. Wisconsin and Michigan definitely flip back to blue, maybe Pennsylvania as well. Hold the Hillary states and pick up those 3, and the election is won.

[Edited on November 2, 2017 at 9:15 PM. Reason : -]

11/2/2017 9:12:07 PM

http://www.cnn.com/2017/11/02/politics/elizabeth-warren-democratic-party/index.html

She is now the Democratic frontrunner.

When was the last time you heard a politician answer a yes or no question with yes or no?

11/2/2017 9:30:19 PM

We aren't exactly sure about Warren either. I always held her in high regard until I started watching her closely in 2015. When we needed her the most, she refused to run herself and failed to back Bernie. She was also behind the curve on the Dakota pipeline.

That doesn't mean she is a fraud or anything, but it does cast doubt and show a lack of courage. You have to judge people by what they do under pressure when there is something at stake. Anyone can talk themselves up, but politicians should be judged on what they do when the opportunities are in front of them.

11/3/2017 12:19:35 AM

^Who exactly is this "we" you speak of?

11/3/2017 12:52:29 AM

I don't think Warren had or has the personality and presence to be the Dem candidate in either election, but I'm still a yuge fan.

[Edited on November 3, 2017 at 1:05 AM. Reason : Lol at Earl doubting her courage. That lady is full of courage.]

[Edited on November 3, 2017 at 1:24 AM. Reason : Shit I got Earl'd]

11/3/2017 1:04:38 AM

How about we convince Americans that experience, ability, intellect, and competence are more important than personality?

I don't want a down-home folksy person I can have a beer with. I want someone a million times smarter than me that I can trust to make well informed decisions.

11/3/2017 1:54:31 AM

That's a nice fantasy but not realistic, Sanders is evidence that you can have both

[Edited on November 3, 2017 at 6:06 AM. Reason : And fuck no to Booker, that would kill any chance Warren has]

11/3/2017 6:05:37 AM

Bernie reluctantly endorsed Hillary at best in the face of the REALITY of a binary choice between her and Trump. Sorry you don't agree, but that doesn't mean he fucking betrayed you. He's caucused with the democrats basically forever, any thoughts you had that he stood for exactly what you believe to a T were in your head. You haven't been betrayed, you're were just living in a fantasy.

Can someone who doesn't like Booker explain why without citing that one time he voted against Bernie's drug bill to which he had some specific issues with and has since co sponsored another one?

11/3/2017 9:09:54 AM

Booker is routinely at the top of the list for Wall Street donations
Booker routinely supports education privatization, school vouchers, anti-public union policies, and "merit-based" teacher pay.

11/3/2017 9:49:17 AM

- the belief that any politician from new jersey has skeletons in their closet, fair or not
- related to being from new jersey, he has taken a lot of money from the financial industry (especially after defending Romney's Bain Capital during the election)
- also related to being from new jersey, he has taken a lot of money from pharma
- he's too friendly with silicon valley
- he made up a black guy, T-Bone, in his book to appeal to white people
- he's been wishy-washy on his stance to protect social security and the retirement age
- he's in favor of school vouchers and privatization
- voted for the freedom act
etc...

in summary, he is not bad but he is really the same kind of ambitious business-friendly centrist democrat who talks a good game on social issues (and i believe his positions in that regard are sincere) but isn't that progressive beyond identity politics

11/3/2017 9:49:46 AM

ok got it

11/3/2017 9:57:35 AM

Quote :

"How about we convince Americans that experience, ability, intellect, and competence are more important than personality?"

I don't want another Jimmy Carter/Al Gore/John Kerry type candidate. I'd like another Obama plz.

11/3/2017 10:16:41 AM

Obama fits that bill. But honestly if Democrats want to win they really need to sit down and truly, truly understand the opposition to globalization that exists on the right. I personally believe globalization is inevitable in the grand scheme of things (whether it's in 50 years or 200) and that it ultimately will be a good thing but there are absolutely valid points against it, at least in the present day. The Democrats over the past 30 years (and to some extent, Republicans like George W.) have been forcing it upon everyone as if they "know better." They probably do but that doesn't change the reality on the ground regarding the opposition that can easily turn violent. Trump's election is case in point.

[Edited on November 3, 2017 at 10:25 AM. Reason : a]

11/3/2017 10:23:48 AM

just for clarity because of trump's quotes: i don't think there was anything illegal in regards to how clinton controlled the DNC and don't think it needs to be investigated, just that it is a lesson that needs to be learned for how the party should move forward

11/3/2017 11:06:06 AM

Nothing illegal, though the DNC did violate their charter and bylaws so I'm not sure if there are any legal ramifications there.

But to flip the argument, I don't want "it isn't illegal" to be the fallback because a lot of what Trump's campaign is accused of doing with Russia is actually not illegal. Nonetheless, it's wrong as fuck.

[Edited on November 3, 2017 at 11:35 AM. Reason : grammar]

11/3/2017 11:35:40 AM

but that's a civil issue, not criminal, it doesn't need an investigation



[Edited on November 3, 2017 at 11:49 AM. Reason : the right would love to try to divide democrats over the issue]

11/3/2017 11:48:59 AM

Yea I didn't know if it would be a civil or criminal thing. I wasn't sure how laws worked with corporate charters and what not.

11/3/2017 11:51:11 AM

^^They don't need the right's help. They're doing it to themselves as we speak. Bernie's camp is going to uproot the DNC and turn it into a socialist organization.

What's funny is that all these cries from the right against Hillary are going to hurt them in the long run because where now, the majority of the DNC is basically just left of center, they will end up with a DNC that looks completely different in 2020.

11/3/2017 12:26:03 PM

to become a socialist organization it would first need to move left of center, then become progressive, then social democrats, the democratic socialism, then socialist. that's not going to happen

in short, you're an idiot

bernie's camp was kicked out of leadership roles, they are not in any kind of position to make major changes in the party. if the DNC wants to stop losing, they should look at the lessons learned and adopt progressive positions.

11/3/2017 12:33:41 PM

Quote :

"just for clarity because of trump's quotes: i don't think there was anything illegal in regards to how clinton controlled the DNC and don't think it needs to be investigated, just that it is a lesson that needs to be learned for how the party should move forward"

If they were using control of the DNC's finances to skirt around $2700 limit on individual campaign contributions, instead taking massive donations to the DNC and then turning around and passing all of that money through to the individual candidate, there may be some campaign finance laws broken. There were articles coming out last year claiming that the Clinton campaign was siphoning off 99% of the DNC funds, although it was assumed that the DNC was willfully doing that at the expense of state and local elections.

Hopefully the Democrats will realize just how foolish this arrangement was, regardless of legality. They funneled a ton of money to a failed presidential candidate and likely lost some important state seats as a result.

https://www.politico.com/story/2016/04/clinton-fundraising-leaves-little-for-state-parties-222670

11/3/2017 2:24:15 PM

Quote :

"But honestly if Democrats want to win they really need to sit down and truly, truly understand the opposition to globalization that exists on the right"

And yet the biggest funders of republican campaigns and war chests are big business CEOs with god knows how many jobs outsourced to and how much money invested in India and China.

11/3/2017 2:44:03 PM

from Donna's book:

Quote :

"Individuals who had maxed out their $2,700 contribution limit to the campaign could write an additional check for $353,400 to the Hillary Victory Fund—that figure represented $10,000 to each of the thirty-two states’ parties who were part of the Victory Fund agreement—$320,000—and $33,400 to the DNC. The money would be deposited in the states first, and transferred to the DNC shortly after that. Money in the battleground states usually stayed in that state, but all the other states funneled that money directly to the DNC, which quickly transferred the money to Brooklyn."

11/3/2017 2:47:08 PM

Quote :

"Hopefully the Democrats will realize just how foolish this arrangement was, regardless of legality. They funneled a ton of money to a failed presidential candidate and likely lost some important state seats as a result."

The DNC doesn't fundraise for Congressional, state or local elections. Those are handled by entirely separate committees and organizations. It's one job is to nominate a Presidential candidate and help them get elected.

11/3/2017 3:17:32 PM

i think you should google the hillary victory fund, it was run jointly with DNC (that was the whole point of why it was questioned from the start)

but this level of detail and discussion belongs in the clinton thread

11/3/2017 3:19:58 PM

Quote :

"Who exactly is this "we" you speak of?"

the independent left

Quote :

"That lady is full of courage"

well i just gave 3 examples of her lack of courage. saying it doesnt make it true.

Quote :

"Bernie reluctantly endorsed Hillary at best in the face of the REALITY of a binary choice between her and Trump. Sorry you don't agree, but that doesn't mean he fucking betrayed you. He's caucused with the democrats basically forever, any thoughts you had that he stood for exactly what you believe to a T were in your head. You haven't been betrayed, you're were just living in a fantasy"

bernie ran on policies contrary to clintons and attracted us by being committed to taking money out of politics among other things. we got behind him and gave him our money to be viable against the big money giant clinton campaign. him taking that money and giving it to the enemy was betrayal and contrary to what he ran on. it was a fantasy that he ran on specificially.

that loss of energy and money set us back years and cannot be forgiven. older people had warned us about bernie being a sheepdog but next time around many more of us will be wary of whoever the next sheepdog candidate is

11/3/2017 5:02:50 PM

Quote :

"And yet the biggest funders of republican campaigns and war chests are big business CEOs with god knows how many jobs outsourced to and how much money invested in India and China."

Gotta love it right? Uninformed voters voting against their own interests. Pretty much happens 100% of the time.

And those CEOs would argue it's because of globalization that this happens. You take that a way and allow a country to use protectionist measures, then jobs don't move overseas. Oh but wait, they're the ones lobbying politicians to make the laws the way they are.

Which really just comes back to the rich shooting themselves in the foot (long term) for short term (relatively) income gains.

11/3/2017 5:08:27 PM

"America First" trade policies started the great depression, I don't need to know any more than that to know Trump doesn't know what he's talking about.

Hoover, by the way, was the last President to not have been elected to anything else previously. And he was a business man, and loved him some coal.

11/3/2017 7:08:15 PM