Quote :

"Maybe they mean it like, "I'm color blind, all I can see is black and white". "

when people say they're "color blind" they are trying to say that they don't see race, and treat everybody equally.

the problem is, saying you don't see race isn't necessarily a good thing. it's totally good and fine to acknowledge different races and cultures and their differences. and doing so can actually open your eyes to inequality.

being "color blind" is just an excuse to turn a blind eye to minorities.

7/18/2019 6:18:52 AM

People use that colorblind line to justify their belief that racism no longer exists. That past grievances don't cause problems today. It allows them to be shielded from systemic racism, inequality, and immorality.

7/18/2019 7:06:27 AM

^yup. It’s lazy and stupid.

7/18/2019 9:40:46 AM

Think he flew into Greenville Airport

7/18/2019 10:42:00 AM

^ in the 747?!

Minimum runway for a normal 747-8 is 7500ft, Greenville is only 7175ft.

I guess those minimums are assuming it's flying people and cargo, not a VIP and some aides.

[Edited on July 18, 2019 at 11:27 AM. Reason : edit: nope... af1 and af2 both flew C-32 (Boeing 757, not 747). Why 2 planes to come 250 miles?]

7/18/2019 11:18:02 AM

^ interesting

7/18/2019 12:10:42 PM

So if “good people” don’t see trump’s racism as disqualifying, what’s the solution?

Is there any way to reach these people?

I’ve been reading articles on cult Deprogramming and it says you cant tell people they’re in a cult or what they’re doing is wrong. You have to ask probing questions that remind them what they’ve lost or that engage critical thinking and be very kind and understanding.

Like instead of “what do you think about trump’s racist comments?” It’s “what do you think he meant when he said ?”

7/18/2019 12:28:37 PM

Quote :

"af1 and af2 both flew C-32 (Boeing 757, not 747). Why 2 planes to come 250 miles?"

maybe i'm wrong, but i thought it was pretty normal for potus and vp to travel separately?

7/18/2019 12:31:52 PM

Quote :

" been reading articles on cult Deprogramming"

i've been thinking about that too but haven't gotten around much to a serious study of the topic. send those articles my way please

7/18/2019 12:37:19 PM

Perhaps they flew into Seymour then most likely and drive from there. Seen the Planes fly over there all the time with or without Pres.

I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.

[Edited on July 18, 2019 at 1:10 PM. Reason : f]

7/18/2019 12:44:17 PM

^ naw

Quote :

"4:55 PM Arrive at Joint Base Andrews – Washington, D.C. 5:05 PM Depart Joint Base Andrews en route to Greenville, NC – Air Force One 6:00 PM Arrive at Pitt-Greenville Airport – Greenville, NC 6:10 PM Depart Pitt-Greenville Airport en route to Williams Arena – Motorcade"

[Edited on July 18, 2019 at 1:12 PM. Reason : ]

7/18/2019 1:11:15 PM

Quote :

"af1 and af2 both flew C-32 (Boeing 757, not 747). Why 2 planes to come 250 miles?"

Yea they flew the C-32 (757) in to Greenville's airport. Pence was in Fayetteville earlier in the day and then flew up to G-Vegas. And flying with multiple aircraft is fairly standard practice, both to minimize the chance of a breakdown stranding the President and in case one of the aircraft were shot down, blown up, taken hostage then the Executive branch could still function.

I caught the VC-25A (747) at RDU in November 2016 when President Obama visited UNC. They only had one of the 747's on site at the airport, but they had a C-17 at the GA terminal. That handled some of the auto fleet, which consisted of a couple of the limos, a few SUV's loaded with Secret Service agents, and the ambulance assigned to the detail. Additionally they had a spare Sea King (Marine One) in the hanger at TAC Air with armed guards, so that might have been the emergency evacuation aircraft if it was needed? I've kind of wondered why a President didn't just get them to take the helicopter direct from the White House to local places. Hell they could easily do that with one of the Osprey's. I would assume its because of the need to have a mobile command center in case of emergency, like when 9/11 happened and President Bush was in Florida.

7/18/2019 1:33:32 PM

Quote :

"Hell they could easily do that with one of the Osprey's"

Good idea. Those things have an excellent safety record!

7/18/2019 1:48:08 PM

Quote :

"So if “good people” don’t see trump’s racism as disqualifying, what’s the solution? Is there any way to reach these people? "

Not really, no. If there was, Dems would have probably figured out how to handle it 2.5 years ago.

The problem is that people keep calling Trump a racist, and since it's a term that's rooted in subjectivity/opinion, it can be easily dismissed and it makes those who fixate on it so much look weak and desperate.

Trump is a racist, but the focus should be on the message he's sending, not him as the messenger. White people, for some dumb reason, think being called a racist is actually more offensive than saying something that's racist.

It's a textbook play from the sociopath's manual on how to get away with being a shitty human being.

You can't fight fire with fire when it comes to racism; you have to fight it with water or earth to snuff it out.

That wiki you posted has a potential strategy: asking questions relating to empathy) that can help some folks who are willing to listen and to try to understand why people would be so offended by those types of remarks. The problem, however, is that whenever anyone even tries to ask people "why don't you think what he said is racist!?!?" it devolves into, "you're calling him a racist! you're calling me a racist for agreeing! I'm not a racist!!"

tl;dr: we are fucked.

I think the closest we can get is saying "It's un-American and unpatriotic to tell Americans to "go back to where they came from" just because they have values/beliefs/opinions we don't agree with."

A few people have already tried to send that message, but the knee-jerk reaction that took place has already drowned that conversation out.

[Edited on July 18, 2019 at 2:01 PM. Reason : .]

7/18/2019 1:57:04 PM

or just fuck those people and don't try to appeal to them at all

7/18/2019 2:07:14 PM

There's too many of them to be able to do that, plus you do have a segment that's on the fence or could change their mind. Trump banks on this.

7/18/2019 2:11:20 PM

Nah. A clear, defined majority finds him and those statements racist.

7/18/2019 2:17:18 PM

Then why the sudden outrage? Why the continued approach each time it happens?

Racism is a much bigger problem than most Americans are willing to admit, and the media sure as hell isn't helping.

7/18/2019 2:20:21 PM

You just asked why a sudden outrage to a statement a clear majority thinks went too far?

7/18/2019 4:17:30 PM

^ It was a rhetorical question based on an earlier shaky premise: we can either convert Trump supporters by educating them about racism, or we ignore them.

If we ignore these people and label them "deplorables" ala Clinton in 2016, it's a pretty big gamble. If we try to convince these people that Trump is racist (along with their views), it's exhausting (and probably a huge waste of time).

After thinking about it a while, I think the best we can do is to try and reframe these types of Tweets into something that avoids labeling people (racist/xenophobic/bigot/etc) and fanning the flames of hatred. Moron has the right idea, more or less, even if it sounds idealistic and hokey.

Instead of the media doing what they always do and screaming " that tweet/comment was [racist/sexist/homophobic/ect]!!" maybe they could just point out that what he's saying is cruel/mean and explain why. We aren't going to suddenly educate and enlighten a huge subset of Americans that freak the fuck out whenever we call them racist/xenophobic/whatever every time Trump does his thing- especially not overnight. But if we can try and establish common ground/empathy and get people to agree that he does and says a lot of mean and cruel shit, we will probably get somewhere a lot faster than nowhere each and every single time.

Think back to the 60s and MLK. To my knowledge, he didn't go around calling everyone and everything a racist; he spent a lot more time talking about equality and humanity and the struggle to see eye to eye.

I mean, fuck. That's a tall order, and the clock is ticking. But this constant cycle is only making Trump stronger.

7/18/2019 5:38:57 PM

Lmao the media makes every single last effort to NOT call something racist. It was notable this time that a couple figures/publications actually said "racist" instead of racially charged.

But yes, democratic candidates should "ignore" people that don't consider Trump racist, ie they should call out bad behavior when they see it. Not fighting is not an option.

7/18/2019 5:57:58 PM

Nice straw man there, along with contradicting yourself in your very first sentence, no less.

We're on the same team bruh, but I'm the one admitting that Trump's gonna keep racking up wins every time he waits to drop a mega distraction when other shit is going down (ie. Stormy case, Epstein, and oh look-- an Iran drone strike!!!)

7/18/2019 6:04:43 PM

How did I get contradict myself? You said the media jumps to call something racist, but they absolutely do not.

And I suppose you weren't advocating doing nothing, but you have to call out racism when you see it.

Why is it everyone else's responsibility to educate the ignorant?? Maybe they should make an effort to live outside their bubbles. In fucking 2019 if you don't know, you don't want to know.

7/18/2019 7:09:10 PM

Quote :

"Lmao the media makes every single last effort to NOT call something racist. It was notable this time that a couple figures/publications actually said "racist" instead of racially charged."

So which is it? The media didn't call it racist, or they did? Either way, Trump riled up his base and the Dems did stupid shit like try to impeach him.

I'm not advocating for doing nothing, I'm just advocating for trying something different-- as in not the same fucking thing that we keep doing over and over again and letting him appear more powerful- and I suggested a different approach.

And as for your last statement, that's a really good question: whose fucking responsibility is it anyway to check a racist, divisive, sociopathic lunatic? Gee, I don't know. Maybe it's ALL of our responsibility, whether we like it or not.

We both agree that doing nothing isn't going to help. Maybe the next step is getting more and more people to wake up and realize that

A) none of this is fucking normal
B) regardless of political affiliation, we should all be pretty sick of all this nastiness/acrimony
C) we'd better figure it out soon

Go Rockets!

[Edited on July 18, 2019 at 7:36 PM. Reason : I'm all about asking questions at this point, because clearly we are losing battles left and right. ]

7/18/2019 7:35:19 PM

I can't believe this isn't understood. You said the media "always" screams "racist". They don't. Not even close. In fact it's so rare that when a FEW outlets called THIS outburst "racist", it was surprising. Even fucking NPR said their reporters should say "racially charged" rather than "racist". So to recap, "the media" ALMOST ALWAYS does back flips to avoid calling something racist.

Quote :

"Trump riled up his base and the Dems did stupid shit like try to impeach him."

Holding months of hardcore impeachment inquiries would be the smartest thing this democratic house has ever done. And Trump's base is always riled up. That 42% will vote for him, unless, maybe, he spends the next 12 months backed into a corner like the weak crybaby he is.

7/18/2019 7:44:26 PM

Whether or not the media specifically uses the words 'racist', 'racism', 'xenophobia', etc in the headlines (which many of them definitely did this time!) doesn't really matter. The discussion IS about racism/ XYZ issue, as opposed to cruelty/lack of decency/lack of leadership/lack of patriotism/etc on Trump's part. He and his supporters just move the goal posts when this inevitably happens.

Are you seriously suggesting otherwise?

Also, do you think it was wise to 'symbolically' try to impeach him on grounds that are dumb (racist/mean tweets?). Impeach the motherfucker, but you better have more than what they're holding.

[Edited on July 18, 2019 at 8:02 PM. Reason : .]

7/18/2019 7:59:55 PM

There is a huge difference bw "racist" vs "racially charged" or "xenophobic"

And the dem leadership wouldn't focus on that other stuff anyway bc they are completely inept. This whole argument started bc the "squad" was mad they passed the border bill with no checks.

And the impeachment vote was semi unrelated to the racist tweets.

7/18/2019 9:46:58 PM

Quote :

"There is a huge difference bw "racist" vs "racially charged" or "xenophobic""

Semantically speaking, no. Two of them are basically synonyms and the third is just a euphemism for the others. I think you are smart enough to figure out which is which, but perhaps not.

For example:

sexy, sexist, and sexuality aren't synonyms, even though they may 'sound' like they are.

sexist, chauvinist, and misogynist are all words used to describe the same general idea.


Anywhooo...

Quote :

"And the dem leadership wouldn't focus on that other stuff anyway bc they are completely inept."

agreed. 100%.

Quote :

"And the impeachment vote was semi unrelated to the racist tweets."

It was bad optics, regardless. Seriously, watch Pelosi's presser yesterday. It was appallingly bad and it actually makes me worried, since clearly the in-party fighting is worse than I thought.

[Edited on July 18, 2019 at 10:26 PM. Reason : .]

[Edited on July 18, 2019 at 10:27 PM. Reason : .]

7/18/2019 10:25:22 PM

I can't take anything UJW says seriously ITT due to "Go Rockets"

7/18/2019 11:53:32 PM

Quote :

"Eric Schmeltzer @JustSchmeltzer New USA TODAY/Ipsos Poll: Overwhelming majority of IND voters say Trump tweets were offensive and that telling people what he did is racist. Majority even go so far as to say it is flat-out UN-AMERICAN. Couple that with Reuters poll that showed 10 point drop in IND support."

7/19/2019 12:22:36 AM

Quote :

" It was appallingly bad and it actually makes me worried, since clearly the in-party fighting is worse than I thought."

that's the fault of old ass comfortable centrist dems and people like you who are okay with this shit

Trump Voters Are Not the Only Voters
They are, in fact, in the minority — so why do the media and Democratic leaders seem so obsessed with them?
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/18/opinion/trump-2020.html

[Edited on July 19, 2019 at 8:47 AM. Reason : .]

7/19/2019 8:19:21 AM

Quote :

"that's the fault of old ass comfortable centrist dems and people like you who are okay with this shit"

Wat?

Please dig through my posts and show me where I actually voted for her (hint: she's not in my district), let alone said I was "okay with this shit." All I've ever said about Pelosi recently is that she's able to get away with this dumb game of impeachment chicken for as long as possible, because she fucking can. Mueller hasn't even testified yet and there's absolutely no way the Senate will vote to impeach Trump, yet. Am I pleased with this tactic? Of course not, but I don't live in some fantasy land believing that American politics is rooted in honesty and fairness.

And just because I didn't become a fanatical Bernie Baby 3 years ago when it was trendy, doesn't mean I'm a "centrist Dem." You and rwoody also seem to forget that Trump didn't win the popular vote last time, and he doesn't need to do it again in 2020 either. See: Electoral College.

I mean this in the most kind, patriotic, and American way, but kindly go fuck yourself.

[Edited on July 19, 2019 at 10:53 AM. Reason : e pluribus unum!]



[Edited on July 19, 2019 at 10:58 AM. Reason : .]

7/19/2019 10:50:44 AM

who are you replying to? if me, who is her and why are you implying i said you voted for her?



[Edited on July 19, 2019 at 10:56 AM. Reason : what are you on about?]

7/19/2019 10:55:10 AM

^Did I need to put a carrot to make it any more clear?

7/19/2019 10:56:59 AM

so me? then i have no idea who her is or why you think i accused you of voting for her

7/19/2019 11:00:11 AM

You're insinuating, somehow, that it's my fault that she (NANCY PELOSI) is doing what she (NANCY PELOSI) is doing. I was just reminding you that I neither voted for her (NANCY PELOSI), nor do I condone her (NANCY PELOSI) actions. It's not my fault she (NANCY PELOSI) is a calculating career politician and she (NANCY PELOSI) is in a leadership position.

[Edited on July 19, 2019 at 11:03 AM. Reason : NANCY. PELOSI.]

7/19/2019 11:01:53 AM

i said centrists fucks like you are okay with this shit

who is her? pelosi? she's a rep from california, why would i think you voted for her?





[Edited on July 19, 2019 at 11:04 AM. Reason : .]

7/19/2019 11:03:19 AM

Where the fuck did I say I was okay with it?

All I said is that it's predictable at this point, and that the media isn't helping.

7/19/2019 11:04:38 AM

you don't want to call anyone out on what's going on, you want democrats to stop making noise about racism

that's being okay with it

it's stupid and misguided, it's centrist nonsense that thinks as long as things are civil and nice everything will be okay and democrats will win if they are civil enough. you learned no lessons from 2016.

like, "OMG IF WE DON'T CALL THEM DEPLORABLES MAYBE THESE PEOPLE WHO WANT TO DEPORT AN AMERICAN MEMBER OF CONGRESS WILL WAKE UP AND VOTE FOR DEMOCRATS!! REEEE"



[Edited on July 19, 2019 at 11:08 AM. Reason : a]

7/19/2019 11:05:16 AM

No, go back and re-read my posts. Dems can certainly condemn racism and be outraged when the fucking POTUS says disgusting and unpatriotic things like "go back to your own country," but they will keep getting the same results if they frame it as "OMG RACIST" instead of "WTF! UNPRESIDENTIAL!" or "WTF HOW ANTI-AMERICAN!"

Moron, who I replied to several times, asked an earlier question about what to do about the people who still refuse to admit that Trump's tweets were racist, and I said it's time for THE MEDIA (Dems too, but that's a given) to try a different approach, because calling something racist (even when it is) doesn't stop the behavior. If anything, it just allows Trump supporters to feign persecution, because in their eyes, there's nothing worse than being called a racist.

You're pretty smart sometimes, but damn, I'm going to guess you were on your phone or drunk while reading the posts on this page.



[Edited on July 19, 2019 at 11:11 AM. Reason : .]

7/19/2019 11:09:26 AM

but the actual facts are that the media reporting on the racist stuff does hurt trump, because it doesn't matter what his voters think, trump supporters are a minority

[Edited on July 19, 2019 at 11:11 AM. Reason : rwoody posted a poll for you and everything]

7/19/2019 11:11:02 AM

That poll, while somewhat encouraging for the sake of humanity, won't change the fact that 2020 isn't just a popularity contest.

7/19/2019 11:14:41 AM

IT HURTS TRUMPWHENHISRACISMISCALLEDOUT
DEMOCRATSANDINDEPENDENTSDON'TLIKETRUMP'SRACISM
IGNORINGHISRACISMANDTRYINGTOAPPEALTOTRUMPVOTERSWILLDEMOBILIZEDEMOCRATICVOTERS

[Edited on July 19, 2019 at 11:18 AM. Reason : clap]

7/19/2019 11:17:31 AM

https://news.vice.com/en_us/article/43jz9w/the-trump-campaign-is-trying-to-own-libs-by-selling-plastic-straws

7/19/2019 11:27:20 AM

^^You and rwoody seem to think that it's more important to preach to the Democratic and far left choir than it is to try and send a different message to independent voters who will hold their noses and vote for Trump assuming the economy is doing well, and don't want to hear about racism because in their twisted minds they feel attacked/persecuted.

I disagree, and I haven't completely given up on trying to get those voters to see that Trump is mean, divisive, and a poor leader, even though I wish we all could and leave them behind since they're too dumb to figure out what racism actually is and why it's bad.

My argument, which you seem to keep twisting, is that it's a trap to keep trying to convert independents (who fucking matter in an election decided by the EC) by framing it first and foremost as a racism problem, when that shuts down the conversation. My potential solution, as far as trying to court these voters is concerned, would be reframing the issue is a way that's more about finding common ground and unity (it's mean, cruel, un-American to say what Trump tweeted).

I never said it was going to be easy; I just said that Trump is predictable and it's time to try something different.

[Edited on July 19, 2019 at 11:37 AM. Reason : .]

[Edited on July 19, 2019 at 11:39 AM. Reason : .]

7/19/2019 11:34:26 AM

the far left AND CENTRISTS AND INDEPENDENTS ALL THINK TRUMP'S RACISM IS BAD

TRUMP. VOTERS. ARE. A. MINORITY.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/18/opinion/trump-2020.html

Quote :

""The next most potent change is an increase in black turnout and support. African-Americans are the most heavily Democratic group in the country, with a large presence in many of the most competitive states. Small increases in their participation would have an outsize effect on the electoral landscape. The projections bear that out. Given population growth since the last election, if black turnout and support return to 2012 levels, Democrats win handily, with as much as an estimated 338 electoral votes and a five-point margin in the national popular vote. You could make a strong case that the future success of the Democratic Party depends on its ability to mobilize and win over black Americans, a key group in a broad coalition of voters. We have post-Obama proof that this is true from the 2017 elections — where strong black turnout drove those Democratic victories in Virginia and Alabama — as well as in the 2018 midterms, where greater support and participation from black voters put black candidates within striking distance of statewide victories in Georgia and Florida." "

Quote :

"And Democrats in Congress aren’t worried about demobilizing a group that may determine the next election. Just the opposite — some moderates believe the party has spent too much time challenging the president’s racism and showing solidarity with their nonwhite constituents."

dem moderates overestimate the size of trump's support so they are too afraid of angering his base and because of this risk demobilizing actual democratic voter base

[Edited on July 19, 2019 at 12:02 PM. Reason : .]

7/19/2019 11:36:07 AM

jfc guyz

7/19/2019 2:06:08 PM

It's just crazy to me that in 2019 someone thinks we still can't call racism what it is. And referencing MLK like nothing has changed in 50 years.

You look around at non-white leaders calling out racism and we're supposed to say "whoa can you please use other language so we don't hurt people's feelings!?"

7/19/2019 3:26:15 PM

For the millionth fucking time, that's not what I'm saying.

I'm saying that if you want to court white independents (hell, they don't even need to be white) that are on the fence (and they DO fucking matter because of the EC), there are better ways to attack Trump than calling him a racist every time he does something racist, most of the time as a loud distraction from other issues.

You guys totally seemed to think Trump was disavowing his comments yesterday, but he did the exact same thing he always does: he hedged by pretending to apologize, before doubling down on them a day later. Not a damn thing has changed, so quit acting like the left had some massive moral victory and that the rest of the country is suddenly woke and not racist anymore.

FFS you both live in the South and were completely unaware that seemingly 'normal' white folk use the N-word to differentiate between 'acceptable' and 'ignorant' black folks and think there's nothing wrong with it.

[Edited on July 19, 2019 at 5:36 PM. Reason : .]

7/19/2019 5:35:47 PM

next

7/19/2019 10:33:02 PM