Quote :

"Some of y'all seem really interested in seeing that this story be false."

I am interested in the truth... so yeah, it sounded fake and now has proven to be fake and in the meantime the university gets dragged through the mud and the greek system as well...not to mention the real rape victims who will have a tougher time finding justice now.

Rolling Stone fucked up big time. Who needs real reporting when the story you hear affirms all the pre-conceived notions you have of meathead frat boys preying on young innocent women for sport?

[Edited on December 5, 2014 at 4:34 PM. Reason : d]

12/5/2014 4:33:48 PM

People are like "YES, I knew that story was bullshit!" and move on with their lives.

The whole discussion just took a blow.

I mean, rapes being under-reported anywhere IS a real problem; it happens. The NCVS backs that up over and over again.

The fact that this article seems to be at least partly fabricated is bad journalism and unethical and all that -- and that's fucked up. I just worry that the above "real problems" are going to continue go unreported for a while now that no one wants to be the next rag to "pull a Rolling Stone". So yeah, way to fuck it all up Rolling stone.

12/5/2014 4:40:16 PM

Damn she probably just lost several more friends today.

12/5/2014 5:13:42 PM

Yeah, it wasn't hard to figure out that this was at best an embellished account or more likely an outright fabrication on either Jackie or the reporter's part. All it took was a single read through of the initial article and then reading some stuff in the comment sections about UVa frats having spring rush not fall, and a few other things for me to really doubt it's veracity.

Then when you find out that the reporter went in with a clear agenda, even saying that she wanted to find a rape story where the university "failed to act" and had already not written about several other schools despite investigating them, and then never contacted or even attempted to contact the accused attackers (whose identity she says she knows) and you really start to question the story. She was looking for something with shock value and in one way or another sacrificed her journalistic integrity. It really makes you want to go back and examine some of her past work, as some of that has been about rape in various institutions.

It's unfortunate that this is going to set back any real conversation about sexual assault on campus, but hopefully it will blunt some of the cries about what an epidemic it is and how "rape culture" is widespread in US universities. Violent crime, including rape, has been on a decades long decline everywhere, including on college campuses. Even one is too many, but maybe this will give some of the Jezebel types a second's pause before launching ridiculous assertions about how every woman is raped at least a dozen times by the time she's 25.

Sometimes rapes happen, but not very often, and a lot of those have alcohol as a contributing factor. It either blurs the lines of consent for both parties. As much as many of the hardcore feminist and misandrists would like for you to believe that violent, forcible rapes are common place on campus they're actually incredibly rare there just as they are almost everywhere.

I guess in the end you have to assign this story about as much validity as tawana brawley, duke lacrosse, and all those satanic daycare cults. At the same time I think it's just further proof that the media today is more about sensation and entertainment than fact and that's a troublesome problem as well.

[Edited on December 5, 2014 at 5:31 PM. Reason : sdfsd]

12/5/2014 5:26:25 PM

Truth?

12/5/2014 6:03:36 PM

Fuck rolling stone

And kill all rapists

NCSU is extremely well versed at covering up bullshit via their own police force.

12/5/2014 7:36:16 PM

Quote :

"OopsPowSrprs: So Jackie's anecdote was made up. I know my bullshit meter went off when I read the "grab its motherfucking leg" quote. I mean really?"

LOL, mine went off so many times that I had to believe it: Nobody could be stupid enough to think people would believe this lie...so it must be true.

But, whatever, it turns out...nope, Jackie & Co. really were that stupid.

I know this site is populated primarily by dudes who have, to some extent, lived in a bit worry of being falsely accused of a crime like this...so I imagine it is largely cut/dry to you guys. But I do like revisiting the reasons for false accusations because they are fascinating and revealing:

1. revenge
2. alibi
3. attention
4. accusing somebody other than the real perpetrator

It wouldn't surprise me if this "Jackie" character really did endure some kind of assault and then got swept up in this sensationalist journalism that Rolling Stone apparently likes to do.

12/5/2014 7:47:17 PM

She was bull rushed by a tribe of dildo waving bull dykes

12/5/2014 7:53:23 PM

Quote :

"I know this site is populated primarily by dudes who have, to some extent, lived in a bit worry of being falsely accused of a crime like this..."

Yep, we're all rapists in hiding. Just like you're a man in hiding, "Bridget".

12/5/2014 10:41:14 PM

Quote :

"I know this site is populated primarily by dudes who have, to some extent, lived in a bit worry of being falsely accused of a crime like this..."

A crime like this, fucking nope. I don't think this site has some or even any dudes who have worried about being accused of planning and executing a ritual gang rape.

Being accused of the was there/wasn't' there consent version of rape which is much more likely and more common among 18-25 year olds, sure.

It's not an unreasonable worry, especially in a climate as fueled by alcohol and drugs as college.

I would surmise that most people here, both male and female, had some kind of sexual contact while they, the other person, or both were legally intoxicated. If you're a guy and you ever hooked up with a gal who was tipsy or drunk, you know like every girl you've ever left a bar with or you ever stumbled home with from a keg party you could theoretically be accused of rape and there's a decent chance that it would stick.

Fortunately most women aren't as horrendous as Tawana Brawley, Crystal Mangum, or roughly half the female characters from SVU.

[Edited on December 5, 2014 at 11:29 PM. Reason : fsdfad]

12/5/2014 11:23:40 PM

Welp...... I'll come back in here and eat some crow, it definitely appears that Jackie/Author were pulling some shenanigans, although discrepancies in a story still don't necessarily mean that no rape occurred. I still feel a need to back off my heavy defense.

Although, I think the argument that colleges have been choking away decent investigations or referrals to police still stands, and the RS article still is somewhat relevant from that perspective.

To those gleefully dancing on the grave of this issue, just a friendly reminder: Please, please don't dismiss this as usual or an "all bitches lie" situation. Please don't be a cog in the wheel of the system that dismisses all accusations and seeks to victim blame. Obviously this outcome calls for a balance between skepticism and belief, but please recognize that in our current paradigm, a significant number of sexual assaults are occurring against women at between the ages of 18 and 25, and that the false accusations is really low ( like 2-8%). don't be a cog in the wheel of our current paradigm that discourages young women from reporting crimes to the proper authorities.

[Edited on December 6, 2014 at 12:45 AM. Reason : Weird]

12/6/2014 12:43:49 AM

Shocking. A Rolling Stone article is full of shit...

12/6/2014 12:46:53 AM

Like I said from the beginning, sounds like a bunch of BlackJesuses

12/6/2014 1:11:43 AM

I would also like to point out again that universities should have nothing to do with these accusations. Title IX requirements that they address and attempt to adjudicate serial assault is a large part of the problem. The only thing they should be doing is advising women to go to the hospital and then the police. Feel free to provide counseling after the fact, but enough with the kangaroo courts, it's just going to make things worse. It's amazing to me that people want them getting more involved in determining guilt and doling out punishment.

[Edited on December 6, 2014 at 3:07 AM. Reason : Phone typing is hard. ]

12/6/2014 3:06:28 AM

So let's back up here and cover the larger theme of the article which is that the administration at UVA failed to investigate alleged rape.

By the article's own admission, based on the policy of UVA at the time (I don't know if it's changed now) it was Jackie's decision if she wanted the university and/or the police to get involved, and she choose to involve neither.

So how are you gonna frame this entire article around a story of the university failing to act, when the decision to act was in the hands of the victim in the first place? Are people angry and upset because they feel like UVA should have ignored 'Jackie's' wishes and pulled the police in and/or started an investigation anyway?

Granted, there is a preponderance of other evidence/stories where the administration at UVA failed to act. However, even in the other stories referenced in the article, it never sounded like the police were involved in any of them. Why universities are involved in the sexual assault business before the police are involved is beyond me. Do people think allowing police and police only to handle sexual assault allegations on college campuses is going to be more/less effective in dealing with the issue?

12/6/2014 8:27:04 AM

Don't be trying to bash me when I'm eating crow stategrad100

12/6/2014 9:02:34 AM

^^it is her choice, and I get that we need to be sensitive to the victims wishes, but for god sakes she is a scared 18 year old. It seems to me that the biggest reason young ladies don't come forward is that the system doesn't treat them that well (victim blaming, questioning, invasive investigations, stigma against sexual assault, etc). We have to change that first, but ultimately we need to throw these damn rapists in jail. Taking every case to the police is the only way to accomplish that.

12/6/2014 9:37:46 AM

2 out of 3 rapes go unreported, I'm sure there's some cultural elements that go into that.

12/6/2014 10:49:04 AM

Actual Protester






just saying..... little ridiculous. Really? "Hide your kids, Hide your Wife...." is that really an appropriate slogan? They need to get in touch with the malcontents in Missouri for some better marketing techniques to sell their cause d'être

12/6/2014 11:22:01 AM

Quote :

"To those gleefully dancing on the grave of this issue, just a friendly reminder: Please, please don't dismiss this as usual or an "all bitches lie" situation. Please don't be a cog in the wheel of the system that dismisses all accusations and seeks to victim blame. Obviously this outcome calls for a balance between skepticism and belief, but please recognize that in our current paradigm, a significant number of sexual assaults are occurring against women at between the ages of 18 and 25, and that the false accusations is really low ( like 2-8%). don't be a cog in the wheel of our current paradigm that discourages young women from reporting crimes to the proper authorities."

I'd wager that women don't want to be The Rape Victim more than they don't think people will believe them. It's undoubtedly an emotionally exhausting process for victims whether or not they report it.

8% is not very low, and there should be consequences for lying about a rape if it can be proven to be a lie. That shouldn't discourage anyone with a legitimate case from going to the police.

[Edited on December 6, 2014 at 11:32 AM. Reason : .]

12/6/2014 11:28:01 AM

Maybe what needs to happen is a way for women (and men) who have been victimized to report it to police for investigation, but keep that investigation out of the public domain until an investigation has happened. The worst thing I can think of would be a victim of a rape to come forward with it and report it, but there isn't enough evidence, and not only does the rapist get away, but the victim is then labeled as a false accuser. If it could be done anonymously, even if there isn't enough evidence to convict, at least the victim's privacy is preserved. (not ideal of course... ideally every rapist would be caught and convicted)

[Edited on December 6, 2014 at 11:40 AM. Reason : ]

12/6/2014 11:39:24 AM

Quote :

"Crede All American 6936 Posts user info edit post Some of y'all seem really interested in seeing that this story be false."

Yes it's too bad nobody actually suffered a brutal gang rape. If you're any kind of decent person you'll hope for more gang rapes.

12/6/2014 11:54:17 AM

The whole story, not just the gang rape.

12/6/2014 12:14:26 PM

Quote :

"Kurtis636: A crime like this, fucking nope. I don't think this site has some or even any dudes who have worried about being accused of planning and executing a ritual gang rape. Being accused of the was there/wasn't' there consent version of rape which is much more likely and more common among 18-25 year olds, sure. It's not an unreasonable worry, especially in a climate as fueled by alcohol and drugs as college. I would surmise that most people here, both male and female, had some kind of sexual contact while they, the other person, or both were legally intoxicated. If you're a guy and you ever hooked up with a gal who was tipsy or drunk, you know like every girl you've ever left a bar with or you ever stumbled home with from a keg party you could theoretically be accused of rape and there's a decent chance that it would stick. Fortunately most women aren't as horrendous as Tawana Brawley, Crystal Mangum, or roughly half the female characters from SVU."

1. I put enough qualifiers in my post that you have zero reason to be arguing with me. You know exactly what I meant.
2. You've also spent a lot of time posting remarkably obvious things.
3. And you're wrong on at least two points:

- Rape is a very difficult crime to prosecute. Statistically, there's very little chance an accusation will stick--definitely NOT a "decent" chance, as you indicated. Of course, I'm not suggesting that makes enduring a false accusation okay in any way.

- Tawana Brawley was a teenage girl who was so terrified of her stepfather that she smeared feces and scrawled racial epithets on her body. Crystal Mangum was a drunken, drug-addled mess when she had to concoct a story to explain her behavior and stay out of trouble/with her kids. Both women seemed to go out of their way NOT to accuse any person in particular--Mangum even tossed in some ridiculous stuff about a mustache.

If we can learn anything from Brawley/Mangum, it's that, if you ever need to use the ol' I-was-raped excuse, make sure you indicate the perpetrator was your same race...nobody will care, and you won't have Sharpton or Nifong messing your game up.

12/6/2014 12:17:11 PM

Quote :

"Shocking. A Rolling Stone article is full of shit..."

12/6/2014 2:27:04 PM

From now on I'll doubt any rape allegation that doesn't name the suspect. If she doesn't say I was raped by xyz I'm calling bullshit.

12/6/2014 3:10:50 PM

So what's the moral here?

Can we still keep our memberships with Exploited College Girls or what?

12/6/2014 5:18:49 PM

12/6/2014 6:17:48 PM

Quote :

"The worst thing I can think of would be a victim of a rape to come forward with it and report it, but there isn't enough evidence, and not only does the rapist get away, but the victim is then labeled as a false accuser."

There's a difference between "not enough evidence" and "you made the thing up".

Quote :

"Rape is a very difficult crime to prosecute."

If a guy's DNA is on the girl's body and she goes to the police immediately, the only argument the guy's lawyer has left is consent.

Someone I know was sexually assaulted. She went to the police immediately. The guy was caught within 12 hours. He's in the middle of serving 25 years.

[Edited on December 8, 2014 at 6:36 PM. Reason : /]

12/8/2014 6:30:32 PM

Quote :

"There's a difference between "not enough evidence" and "you made the thing up"."

yes but there is also such thing as pubic perception, which is very rarely rational or fair. Keeping the accuser anonymous somehow (if possible) would serve to protect her/him from unjust blow back.

12/8/2014 7:57:43 PM

http://www.cavalierdaily.com/m/blog/on-sexual-assault-letters-from-the-community/2014/12/a-letter-from-a-friend-jackies-story-is-not-a-hoax

12/8/2014 8:10:36 PM

^ from the "anonymous friend", "Being the lazy freshman I was, I tended to roll over in bed and pay no mind to it, hoping somebody else would turn it off, and remind Jackie about it once she got back from class."

Bull fucking shit. The prose is vaulted and awkward like someone's grandma ghost-wrote it. I don't believe that shit for a minute. I think the "anonymous friend" is Sabrina Rubin Erdely trying to cover her tracks like Stephen Glass.

Stephen Glass went so far as to try to set up a fake web site and then call in "anonymously" as characters in his story in an attempt to corroborate what he put out there. I call bullshit again.

12/8/2014 8:30:25 PM

Ah yes, the classic "ok, maybe it didn't happen exactly that way, but it happened!"

I'm a little surprised it took this long. Usually it's within a couple of days of the walkback of the original story.

We shall see. I suspect further discovery and the eventual libel suits will just rip more holes in Jackie's story and we may well find out that Erderly falsified a lot of stuff in past stories. She's written a lot of stories about sexual assaults, prostitution, and the like.

12/8/2014 8:33:18 PM

Quote :

"I remember second semester, she shared a Netflix account with me and I noticed how much TV she was watching — hours and hours of shows that seemed to get darker and darker as time went on. I wondered how she had time, with homework and school, and I wondered if she was okay. I didn’t ask. I wish I had."

i'm not saying this is made up, but this sounds made up.

12/8/2014 10:36:55 PM

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/u-va-students-challenge-rolling-stone-account-of-attack/2014/12/10/ef345e42-7fcb-11e4-81fd-8c4814dfa9d7_story.html

This just keeps getting better.

Look, I'm sure some of you are going to think that I'm piling on here, but it's important that this whole thing plays all they way out. Dollars to donuts nothing at all happened and Jackie Coakley is a narcissist with a borderline personality disorder. All the evidence is starting to point that direction.

It's also clear that Erdley did no investigation whatsoever and just ran the juiciest, most salacious thing she could, truth be damned.

It turns out that factually speaking women are 1.7 times more likely to be the victim of crime off of campus vs. on, rape has been declined over 70% over the past decades (concurrent with the overall droop in violent crime for the last 40+ years) and no, there is not an "epidemic" of sexual assault on college campuses.

I hope that this ultimately gets so ugly that people pushing the "rape culture" agenda are forced to have an actual debate about the reality of what rape and sexual assault on campus is and stop painting it as something it's not. Maybe it will lead to addressing things like lowering the drinking age, educating women about self defense and making better decisions. Maybe we can actually get young men to understand what consent is and figure out that you just don't have sex with women who are drunk. Those are the real issues that need to be addressed when you talk about rape on campus, not some imaginary culture of predation that paints all men aged 18-24 as high functioning sociopaths all of whom are capable of being the next BTK Killer.

12/11/2014 12:47:49 AM

Quote :

"Jackie ultimately told her harrowing account to sexual assault prevention groups on campus and spoke to university officials about it, although she said in interviews that she was always reluctant to identify an attacker and never felt ready to contact police."

If she spoke to university officials beforehand, why didn't they investigate at the time?

Anyway:

Quote :

"Randall said he met Jackie shortly after arriving at U-Va. in fall 2012 and the two struck up a quick friendship. He said Jackie was interested in pursuing a romantic relationship with him; he valued her friendship but wasn’t interested in more. The three friends said Jackie soon began talking about a handsome junior from chemistry class who had a crush on her and had been asking her out on dates. Intrigued, Jackie’s friends got his phone number from her and began exchanging text messages with the mysterious upperclassman. He then raved to them about “this super smart hot” freshman who shared his love of the band Coheed and Cambria, according to the texts, which were provided to The Post. “I really like this girl,” the chemistry student wrote in one message. Some of the messages included photographs of a man with a sculpted jaw line and ocean-blue eyes. In the text messages, the student wrote that he was jealous that another student had apparently won Jackie’s attention. “Get this she said she likes some other 1st year guy who dosnt like her and turned her down but she wont date me cause she likes him,” the chemistry student wrote. “She cant turn my down fro some nerd 1st yr. she said this kid is smart and funny and worth it.” Jackie told her three friends that she accepted the upperclassman’s invitation for a dinner date on Friday, Sept. 28, 2012. Curious about Jackie’s date, the friends said that they tried to find the student on a U-Va. database and social media but failed. Andy, Cindy and Randall all said they never met the student in person. Before Jackie’s date, the friends became suspicious that perhaps they hadn’t really been in contact with the chemistry student at all, they said. U-Va. officials told The Post that no student with the name Jackie provided to her friends as her date and attacker in 2012 had ever enrolled at the university. Randall provided The Post with pictures that Jackie’s purported date had sent of himself by text message in 2012. The Post identified the person in the pictures and learned that his name does not match the one Jackie gave friends in 2012. In an interview, the man said he was Jackie’s high school classmate but “never really spoke to her.” The man said he was never a U-Va. student and is not a member of any fraternity. Additionally, he said that he had not visited Charlottesville in at least six years and that he was in another state participating in an athletic event during the weekend of Sept. 28, 2012. “I have nothing to do with it,” he said. He said it appears that the circulated photos were pulled from social media Web sites. After the alleged attack, the chemistry student who Jackie said had taken her on the date wrote an e-mail to Randall, passing along praise that Jackie apparently had for him. Randall said it is apparent to him that he is the “first year” student that the chemistry upperclassman described in text messages, since he had rebuffed Jackie’s advances."

[Edited on December 12, 2014 at 8:34 AM. Reason : .]

12/12/2014 8:33:37 AM

Rolling Stones is going to be paying some people some money soon

12/12/2014 9:00:10 AM

Who would sue? Phi Kappa Psi could obviously, but besides them?

12/12/2014 9:32:41 AM

I smell bullshit.

Quote :

"Intrigued, Jackie’s friends got his phone number from her and began exchanging text messages with the mysterious upperclassman. He then raved to them about “this super smart hot” freshman who shared his love of the band Coheed and Cambria, according to the texts, which were provided to The Post. “I really like this girl,” the chemistry student wrote in one message. Some of the messages included photographs of a man with a sculpted jaw line and ocean-blue eyes."

Quote :

"“Get this she said she likes some other 1st year guy who dosnt like her and turned her down but she wont date me cause she likes him,” the chemistry student wrote. “She cant turn my down fro some nerd 1st yr. she said this kid is smart and funny and worth it.”"

BULLSHIT, these are statements that a high schooler would make, not a Junior in college. Do people really say third year/first year?

Also is this bitch's real name Jackie?

[Edited on December 12, 2014 at 9:40 AM. Reason : .]

12/12/2014 9:35:20 AM

The "First Year" "Third Year" thing is something that those at the University of Virginia (Tom's University) use to distinguish themselves from the rest of the plebes in the collegiate system.

12/12/2014 9:42:09 AM

I think this article is more Erdely and less "Jackie" than people think

Unfortunate that the demonic WASP has obviously stricken the female population with its jawlines and ocean blue eyes and serial gang rapes of all the Jackies across the country.

Obviously the only recourse to stop the menacing uncontrollable sexist raping men is for Erdely is to expose the truth and then express her love of women on her Twitter:

12/12/2014 10:20:47 AM

wat

12/12/2014 10:44:13 AM

Quote :

"Do people really say third year/first year? "

Yes.

At Hogwarts.

12/12/2014 11:04:20 AM

I went to college.

12/12/2014 12:01:57 PM

Quote :

"Also is this bitch's real name Jackie?"

No.

Quote :

"I think this article is more Erdely and less "Jackie" than people think"

Good luck to her getting a job again then.

12/12/2014 2:24:01 PM

isn't this the second time she's done this?

12/12/2014 2:25:43 PM

Quote :

"get young men to understand what consent is and figure out that you just don't have sex with women who are drunk."

I have a huge problem with this. My problem with this statement, and much of the culture surrounding these sort of events, is it puts responsibility solely on one party. The implicit suggestion is that females are incapable of making the same sort of judgement calls, especially once intoxicated, that mean are. Personally, I find that put women in a negative light, suggesting they can't make their own decisions and that others still need to do so for them.

Maybe that is the case but if so I'd suggest it's culturally based. We separate boys and girls early on, outlining tasks that women can't do that boys can because their either too physically weak, don't have the natural constitution for it or are otherwise incapable.

We need to move beyond giving lip service that women can do anything a man can do and then legislating rules that put that in place by raising women with the same expectations, and really making sure they have the same opportunities that afford themselves the confidence to know they can do what any man can do. That'd help not only this sort of issue but with basic, core elements such as young women not speaking up in the classroom.

#expectsdaughtersoneday

12/12/2014 2:26:47 PM

^ I was doing a science thing for elementary school students in Rocky Mount once. Public school. I noticed I had a 2nd-grade class that was all boys. Thought "huh, maybe that's just the unruly bunch that teacher has to handle." Later I had an all girls class and I asked their teacher about it then. It was a pilot program they were doing for the state. The idea was to separate into boys and girls so that all those attributes you talk about don't exist. It was early on, but so far she told me the girls were more interactive asking more questions in math and science and the boys asked more questions in English.

That said, those things at young ages have nothing to deal with gang rape or false rape accusations. If you hope to have a daughter someday, do what my dad did and have her help in your car maintenance and working outside.

12/12/2014 2:44:21 PM

Quote :

"After the alleged attack, the chemistry student who Jackie said had taken her on the date wrote an e-mail to Randall, passing along praise that Jackie apparently had for him. Randall said it is apparent to him that he is the “first year” student that the chemistry upperclassman described in text messages, since he had rebuffed Jackie’s advances."

whoa. this ended up becoming a pretty elaborate ruse.

12/12/2014 4:49:35 PM

I'm almost tempted to return to TWW to discuss this bullshit 'rape culture'....almost.

12/12/2014 8:37:17 PM