You’re the idiot calling people on your own team names for even daring to suggest that maybe a different more nuanced approach is “centrist,” along with declaring undecided Independents a lost cause.

Grow up.

7/31/2019 8:31:07 PM

wonder what dtownral thought about Trump back when Trump was a Democrat

7/31/2019 8:37:42 PM

Interesting data that geppetto posted, but not necessarily surprising. I also think Obama voters not voting for clinton hurts the pro centrist argument a little. Hilary was basically running as Obama part 2, just like Biden, and lost. A new approach that seems to offer change and new ideas could energize the base AND pull back some of those lost voters.

I haven't looked for data, but I think you'd need polling to say WHY those people switched and WHY Dem voters stayed home. Until then, UJW is right and we're all doing at least some speculation.

I do think polling has pointed more towards calling Trump racist not being a problem for independents, but I guess if you don't believe polling that argument (and any arguments on this topic really) falls flat.

7/31/2019 8:51:39 PM

Centrist democrat fucks gave trump a blank check to keep children in cages and UJW is mad because I'm being mean to him, fucking call the wambulance

7/31/2019 8:52:21 PM

Centrist Democrats like Bill Clinton, who opened those immigration camps in the first place

7/31/2019 8:55:43 PM

Yes exactly

[Edited on July 31, 2019 at 8:57 PM. Reason : Close enough at least ]

7/31/2019 8:56:57 PM

Don't make centrist a bad word. In the middle is where a good candidate should be. We just need this country to understand that moderation is ok.

But for the country that popularized rolling coal, it's probably going to take a ton of eugenics (which i'm all for in theory, but man has it been done wrong in the past)

8/1/2019 10:41:29 AM

centrism doesn't make sense when it comes to climate change or civil rights/racism

I'm not even sure what true centrism even looks like on economy/taxes/foreign policy, seems like you could sell anything as centrism in these areas... where does Trump's record high deficit or tariffs or ag bailouts fall on the spectrum? Doesn't seem centrist...

Sanders/Warren are to the right of our international partners, they could easily argue their positions are centrist if they wanted to market themselves that way. It's all marketing really, there's no objectivity on most issues.

[Edited on August 1, 2019 at 10:52 AM. Reason : ]

8/1/2019 10:51:16 AM

Centrism implies that the status quo is fine and that there aren't major structural issues with the country. It's a fairly privileged position. "I'm doing fine let's keep it that way"

8/1/2019 11:00:17 AM

I define centrist as picking the best from each side, not being wishy-washy on every issue.

If both sides could admit that the other side has some good ideas, i think the country wins.



too many stupid people with the right to vote and too many stupid people running for office, though. everyone just wants to stick it to the other guy.

[Edited on August 1, 2019 at 11:02 AM. Reason : wishy washy clarification]

8/1/2019 11:01:52 AM

Quote :

"Centrism implies that the status quo is fine and that there aren't major structural issues with the country. It's a fairly privileged position. "I'm doing fine let's keep it that way""

So is your position that people who are extreme conservatives, and not centrists, are less privileged than their centrist counterparts on the right? Are moderate conservatives and liberals coming from equal places of privilege?

8/1/2019 11:29:30 AM

just putting this out there for that quote


imply

Quote :

"verb strongly suggest the truth or existence of (something not expressly stated). "

infer

Quote :

"verb deduce or conclude (information) from evidence and reasoning rather than from explicit statements. "

[Edited on August 1, 2019 at 11:33 AM. Reason : spacing]

[Edited on August 1, 2019 at 11:34 AM. Reason : removed tense info]

8/1/2019 11:32:37 AM

you're implying that quoted sentence should have used infer?

[Edited on August 1, 2019 at 11:57 AM. Reason : that's what i infer from your post ]

8/1/2019 11:57:44 AM

the quoted text said that the word centrism implies something. it doesnt. quoted user inferred that centrism meant certain things based on what they see surrounding the word

8/1/2019 12:09:19 PM

implies is fine that use

8/1/2019 12:38:45 PM

Quote :

"So is your position that people who are extreme conservatives, and not centrists, are less privileged than their centrist counterparts on the right? Are moderate conservatives and liberals coming from equal places of privilege?"

Yes. Centrist/moderate is interchangeable in the current climate, I'm not sure many people define centrist the way BOD did. Centrists don't want things to change much. For that to happen, you gave to be doing pretty OK. Not to say there aren't a wide range of people across the spectrum, but I would guess you're less likely to panic about immigration if you've always had a job and more likely to be fine with our current health care system if you've never had to sweat a medical bill.

8/1/2019 1:23:20 PM

ok then whats a better word than centrist for knowing that things are fucked and need to change, but seeing that one-sided fixes are worthless

8/1/2019 4:58:31 PM

If you're using the term centrist/moderate as pejorative to mock those that disagree with some of your takes, it makes you look childish imo

I'm not nearly as progressive as some of the far left, but it's dumb to call me a centrist when I absolutely advocate for free college, universal healthcare, extensive prison and immigration reform, legalizing recreational drugs, women's rights, etc.

dtownral is just a bully sometimes, and it's OK to point that out to him, especially since most of us actually are progressives to varying degrees.

8/1/2019 5:06:09 PM

i dont know dtownral, but im guessing he/she/they suck

8/1/2019 5:15:12 PM

I actually agree with him more often than not, but he has a tendency to be a bully when it comes to TSB

8/1/2019 5:17:48 PM

I'm the bully guys, not the centrist assholes who gave trump a blank check to out children in cages then attacked the progressive members of their party who wanted it to come with requirements and accountability

Fucking wimps

8/1/2019 6:03:30 PM

o doyle rules

8/2/2019 12:02:37 PM

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2019/08/el-paso-mass-shooting-white-nationalism.amp

Quote :

"He was writing, that is, in the dominant mode by which white nationalist ideas are presented in America: as a second-order concern, or, better yet, a third-order one, a warning that liberals, by denouncing racism, run the risk of offending or provoking the people who hold those racist views (or views that may seem, to a snobbish and uncaring coastal elite, to be racist, when in fact they reflect the reasonable or at least understandable frustrations or fears of the people who hold them)."

8/5/2019 9:39:30 AM

absolute must read, i hope the last line gets through to people

8/5/2019 9:48:34 AM

This mother fucker said “god bless the memory of those who perished in toledo”.

8/5/2019 11:11:40 AM

One of my hopes for 2020 is that the people who didn't vocalize they were voting for Trump last time around because they knew they should be ashamed to do so have learned their lesson and actually won't vote for him this time. My fear is that those who love Trump are so rabid for him that they will come out full swing.

Even though he hasn't done many of the things he said he would that built up the fervor, his continued euro-normative-nationalist-america-fuck-yeah message so deeply connects to his base on an emotional level that they live by the Trump die by the Trump.

8/8/2019 5:18:27 AM

Quote :

"One of my hopes for 2020 is that the people who didn't vocalize they were voting for Trump last time around because they knew they should be ashamed to do so have learned their lesson and actually won't vote for him this time. My fear is that those who love Trump are so rabid for him that they will come out full swing. "

since the 2016 campaign and election, it feels like the GOP has accepted Trump far more than most people expected. remember all the talk about a splintered GOP (that was assuming Trump wouldn't win in '16) and how there was so much concern about the future of the GOP? he's been normalized. i think there could be enough uniformed or more casual voters who just look at it and say "he says wild shit...but we aren't at war, the economy seems fine, maybe he hasn't been that bad after all". part of me thinks there's so much negativity around Trump and the Dem base should be really excited to turnout and vote Trump out...but part of me wonders if the "trump-ization" of the GOP is going to make it even easier for the more moderate GOP voters to vote for Trump.

a lot will depend on who the Dem nominee is, of course.

8/8/2019 6:22:46 AM

Agreed. There is really a Trump style republican, which isn't the Regan style. He hates free markets, is cool with heavy deficits, subsidizes suffering businesses, wants to spend heavily on infrastructure, and so on.

I feel like traditional conservatives, the ones who were actually driven on ideology and not claiming ideology when the real connective tissue was the collective distaste for poor people who may be taking their tax dollars, are retiring from congress for that reason. Haven't there been 20 or so retired GOP members of congress between start of 2016 and now? That seems like a lot to me and a clear sign that those traditional republicans don't like the way things are going with their party (not implying they'd be a swing vote or anything).

8/8/2019 7:12:28 AM

^^ This feeling may actually be supported by statistics.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/07/upshot/trump-approval-rating-rise.html

Quote :

"The share of Americans who say they have a favorable view of [Donald J. Trump] has increased significantly since the 2016 election. And over the last few months, some of the highest-quality public opinion polls, though not all, showed the president’s job approval rating — a different measure from personal favorability — had inched up to essentially match the highest level of his term."

Quote :

"Millions of Americans who did not like the president in 2016 now say they do. Over all, his personal favorability rating has increased by about 10 percentage points among registered voters since Election Day 2016, to 44 percent from 34 percent, according to Upshot estimates. Some of these voters probably voted for Mr. Trump in 2016, even though they didn’t like him at the time. But some probably did not vote for him: Republicans with an unfavorable opinion of Mr. Trump were more than twice as likely to stay home on Election Day as those with a favorable view, according to New York Times/Siena surveys of North Carolina, Florida and Pennsylvania in 2016. It seems likely that a substantial number of these voters now have a favorable view of the president: Over all, 28 percent of Republican-leaning voters with an unfavorable view of Mr. Trump in 2016 had a favorable view of him by 2018, according to data from the Voter Study Group. The aggregate national data suggests that Mr. Trump has gained more support than that — if not from Republicans then perhaps from some number of independents or former Democrats."

[Edited on August 8, 2019 at 8:27 AM. Reason : ]

8/8/2019 8:24:58 AM

anyone who knows any actual trump supporters knows theyre thrilled with everything hes doing except guns. bumpstocks were a big "mistake" and whatever he is teasing this time is too. theyre also devastated that trey gowdy, one eyed bastard and lindsey graham betrayed them too.

8/8/2019 8:55:38 AM

I don’t think we’re really talking about Trump’s base though. They aren’t gonna turn on him. Unless he just totally does a 180 on everything. I’m talking more about the moderate right that originally wasn’t on board with trump. I think a lot of them have or could come around to voting for him for re-election even if they weren’t on board with him in ‘16. There’s been a normalization of trump that I think would sway some of the 2016 “never trumpers”.

8/8/2019 9:18:54 AM

that's who those posts are about, the "moderate" right are trump supporters now

8/8/2019 9:25:37 AM

I’m convinced that my one relative who isn’t an open Trump supporter and who claims to be a moderate “Never Trumper” will vote to re-elect him next year.

She made a big stink during the Brett Kavanaugh hearings about how the Democrats were going to force her to vote for him. It sounded more, to me, like an excuse to vote for him.

[Edited on August 8, 2019 at 9:34 AM. Reason : ]

8/8/2019 9:31:22 AM

^^oh yeah, i know. I was responding to utowncha bringing up (what I interpreted to be) Trump’s base that’s been his base from day 1. But I may be misinterpreting what that post was about.

8/8/2019 9:38:57 AM

I think one thing all Republicans share is a joy in sticking it to Democrats. Trump certainly has stuck it to Democrats, so I think a lot of Republicans are like " Maybe he ain't all bad...4 more years!"

8/8/2019 9:39:01 AM

^^^or she will vote for whatever libertarian they nominate at Motel 6. ^oh yeah the liberal tears vote is a big one.



[Edited on August 8, 2019 at 9:41 AM. Reason : .]

8/8/2019 9:40:12 AM

Quote :

"She made a big stink during the Brett Kavanaugh hearings about how the Democrats were going to force her to vote for him. It sounded more, to me, like an excuse to vote for him. "

no matter the democratic nominee selected -> Well I wanted to vote against Trump but the Democrats picked a radical socialist and I just can't do that

8/8/2019 9:59:43 AM

^^ That’s true. I could see her voting for someone like Justin Amash.

[Edited on August 8, 2019 at 10:00 AM. Reason : ]

8/8/2019 10:00:38 AM

Quote :

"no matter the democratic nominee selected -> Well I wanted to vote against Trump but the Democrats picked a radical socialist and I just can't do that"

Yup. I think Buttigieg had a similar quote in the recent debate something like “no matter what policy we propose the GOP will call us crazy socialists”. So yeah...those people were never gonna vote for a democrat anyway, they’re just looking for any excuse not to.

8/8/2019 10:43:08 AM

Quote :

"i think there could be enough uniformed or more casual voters who just look at it and say "he says wild shit...but we aren't at war, the economy seems fine, maybe he hasn't been that bad after all". part of me thinks there's so much negativity around Trump and the Dem base should be really excited to turnout and vote Trump out...but part of me wonders if the "trump-ization" of the GOP is going to make it even easier for the more moderate GOP voters to vote for Trump."

yes

8/9/2019 8:15:50 PM

Here's a counterpoint:

http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/08/trumps-state-by-state-approval-ratings-should-scare-him.html

8/13/2019 6:55:22 PM

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/taibbi-trump-2020-be-very-afraid-872299/

8/20/2019 11:38:47 AM

I read that article and loved it. I don't know why Democrats/liberals/left-leaning people don't just yell "Donald Trump has a tiny dick!" in supporters faces. And i don't know why no one yells it at his face during appearances.

It definitely would upset him more than "Your policies are hurting Americans and inciting violence toward minorities".

[Edited on August 20, 2019 at 3:07 PM. Reason : also, ]

8/20/2019 3:05:38 PM

yes they should do that and show everyone in the middle how weird they are. in case you havent noticed republicans are the masters of playing victim and the not-so-liberal media is hellbent on portraying them as such. regardless of what morons like DTR say democrats cant win the next election with just the left.

8/21/2019 7:25:07 AM

Wtf is he talking about trying to buy fucking Greenland?

8/21/2019 8:03:23 AM

Quote :

"“Where has the Democratic party gone?” Trump said to press. “Where have they gone where they are defending these two people over the state of Israel? I think any Jewish people that vote for a Democrat, I think it shows a total lack of knowledge or great disloyalty.""

8/21/2019 9:36:06 AM

Fuck it. Pretty sure I’m out even at the primary level, unless there’s a GOP primary challenge, not that such a thing would be successful.. Biden lost me with his gun proposals.

Maybe I’ll vote Libertarian or something. I don’t know that it’s worth the trouble of filling out a primary ballot for any lesser races in FL District 1, or worth going to the polls for a primary just to cast an L-vote..

8/22/2019 1:06:13 AM

I can’t fathom loving guns so much that’d you be ok with another 4 years of Trump

8/22/2019 1:50:01 AM

They could ban guns tomorrow and it would have almost no material impact on the fabric of the country long term. Guns could be unbanned a month later, and nothing major would happen.

Meanwhile, trump's trade wars are tanking the economy, pushing farmers to bankruptcy, suicide, or to sell to megacorps; China is building out supply chains that might never come back to America, Trump's selling public lands to private companies, undermining green energy, creating indefinite detention camps for immigrants not charged with a crime (and refusing them vaccines for the deadliest virus in our country); Scientists throughout the federal gov from the EPA to the FDA are being ignored or fired, the majority of Republicans now believe college education is bad for the country.

This is all not even considering Trump's general unfitness in knowledge, work ethic, or temperament, or the fact he's committed numerous serious crimes that he can only be punished for at the ballot box.

8/22/2019 2:30:10 AM

Quote :

"Fuck it. Pretty sure I’m out even at the primary level, unless there’s a GOP primary challenge, not that such a thing would be successful.. Biden lost me with his gun proposals. Maybe I’ll vote Libertarian or something. I don’t know that it’s worth the trouble of filling out a primary ballot for any lesser races in FL District 1, or worth going to the polls for a primary just to cast an L-vote.."

this is the kind of person centrists tell me democrats should be spending time and money trying to reach

8/22/2019 8:01:42 AM