jimmy v

10/30/2016 12:29:06 PM

^^ Agreed, I was mostly referring to upper administration within the department. We have some great coaches and program personnel in some of the non-revenue sports.

10/30/2016 2:31:40 PM

Quote :

"i realize that most people only care about football and men's basketball and that's fair, but we've pretty much made improvements in every non-revenue sport, several in major ways"

Yep. Men's BBall has not been great but has without question improved. Football has not. Most every single non-rev sport has improved. That is not at all up for debate

10/31/2016 7:28:35 AM

Quote :

"NC State men's soccer coach Kelly Findley has been relieved of his duties, according to NC State Athletics."

You fired the wrong football coach Debbie!!!!!

[Edited on November 3, 2016 at 5:26 PM. Reason : ]

11/3/2016 5:26:19 PM

Some guy posted this on Pack Pride that shows NCSU is the only FBS school to not have won a championship in any revenue sport since the 1980s

http://www.scout.com/college/north-carolina-state/forums/2515-packpride-sports/15108796-pack-only-fbs-school-w-no-champ-in-rev-sports-since-80s-data

ouch

11/4/2016 4:50:11 PM

Quote :

"During my 26 years as an Athletics Director, I have held the belief that all programs should be evaluated at the conclusion of their respective seasons rather than in the midst of them."

We have 4 completed seasons. Clearly DD is an awful coach and can not produce a winning conference record. She should have seen the writing on the wall after 0-8. She should see the writing on the wall after 3 home conference wins in 4 years.

During her time as AD at UMB and NCSU (I didnt count St. Louis, since they are not in a major conference) the overall record for football is 105-97 during a 23 year span (1994-2016). Not too bad for two of the worst programs in college football history. However, when you consider that almost 1/3 of those wins occurred over just three seasons at UMD (31 wins from 2001-2003), her performance gets a little more suspect. Regardless, she was the AD at that time, so she should rightly get credit. But she should have recognized sooner that Friedgen's time was done, allowing the program to move on to a more capable coach. Her inability to identify this led their "coach in waiting" to leave the program for a better opportunity, leaving UMD with a slumping Friedgen and later the disaster that was Randy Edsall.

Long story, short, Yow refuses to make the changes necessary for a competitive football program, so she needs to go. Maybe now we can finally hire an AD that has shown the ability to foster a competitive football program.

11/28/2016 12:28:54 PM

Quote :

"However, when you consider that almost 1/3 of those wins occurred over just three seasons at UMD (31 wins from 2001-2003)"

By that same logic, shouldn't you take DD's first record (0-8) out?

You are an idiot if you can't see that Yow has done a tremendous job at NC State. Our entire athletic department was pretty much a laughingstock before Yow got here. Our non-revenue sports are killing it (at least compared to what they were doing...but seriously...top 5 in men's/women's S&D, top 5 in wrestling, WBB back out of the doldrums, baseball stayed consistent, women's soccer won two tournament games for the first time in forever). One of her hires failed (men's soccer), and was recently let go. Men's BB has gone to two Sweet 16s and has the most potential in a long time to make a strong run this year. Football has been a little disappointing, but we're still going to our third straight bowl and we're probably a decent field goal kicker and a dropped INT away from being 9-3....and we pretty much return 90% of our team next year (unless Chubb and J-Sam go pro).

I'm probably best described as a realist/slight pessimist...but you guys are being miserable NC State fucks (if not just plain dumb).

[Edited on November 28, 2016 at 12:44 PM. Reason : .]

11/28/2016 12:38:38 PM

Covered that in the very next sentence. Thanks for reading though.

11/28/2016 12:41:02 PM

Quote :

"competitive football program. "

I guess taking Clemson into overtime and losing in the last minute to FSU isn't competitive.

Louisville is the only game this year in which we weren't "competitive". And they did the same thing to FSU that they did to us...so it happens.

11/28/2016 12:45:49 PM

Our AD should not be counting moral victories.

11/28/2016 12:56:49 PM

You were the one that used the word "competitive". Pick a narrative and stick with it.

11/28/2016 12:59:14 PM

I hope we win a life championship soon.

11/28/2016 1:09:54 PM

^^I knew that would make some people go into vapor lock. An AD should take the holistic long view. If 22-34 is competitive to you, then I guess we don't have anything to discuss.

11/28/2016 1:15:22 PM

You look at cumulative results and year-by-year results.

We had the worst QB situation in recent memory (yes...Mitchell and Thomas were worse than Daniel Evans and the Stone/Davis years) and an obvious lack of talent from the final TOB years. 0-8 was horrible...but not many coaches could have done anything with that team. 2nd season was a great turnaround with Brisset and company. Third year was disappointing, but the wheels started to fall off with the Thornton suspension and then the Dayes season ending injury. Capped it off with a bad showing against UNC and Prescott destroying us in a bowl game.

This year looked bad from the beginning with most projecting us to finish in the 5-7/6-6 range...best case scenario 7-5. Reason being that we had FSU/Clemson/Louisville/Notre Dame all on the schedule. Notre Dame sucked this year, but Clemson/Louisville were top 5 for most of the year with FSU probably ending up in the top 10. We actually SHOULD have beaten FSU and Clemson...but we fucked it up. You can blah blah moral victories all you want...but we literally went toe-to-toe with great teams, punched them in the mouth, and were a chip shot field goal and point blank dropped interception away from beating both of them. ECU lost sucked bawlz...but again...decent field goal kicker (amongst other bone-headed mistakes) and we win that game. Even our other two losses (BC sucked real bad) we could have/should have one if not for dropped passes and untimely penalties (illegal shift on BC TD pass). To top it off, we go in and beat our heavily favored rival in the final game.

I just don't see how we're looking at the football program as this massive failure. Yeah, it's been disappointing so far...but even DD's last three years are right on par with where NC State is historically. We've been an average program (and that might be generous) over the lifetime of the football program. Bo Rein was great in the late 70s, Sheridan was above average, and Amato and TOB had a good year here and there. But we're trying to act like 8-5/7-6/6-6 is somehow horrible. Come the fuck on. Obviously we want to be better than that...but DD is doing this at the beginning of his tenure...not on the downslope.

This year was pretty much what most experts predicted (even though we lost pretty much every toss-up game there was)...and next year has always been looked at as our most promising (with players coming back and such). If we suck next year...then by all means, call for his head (and I guess Yow's, if she doesn't take appropriate action). But there is no reason to be upset with Yow for not getting rid of him this year.

11/28/2016 1:43:02 PM

Quote :

"I just don't see how we're looking at the football program as this massive failure. Yeah, it's been disappointing so far...but even DD's last three years are right on par with where NC State is historically."

yep...it's been somewhat disappointing but basically on par with our history. of course that doesn't mean we, as fans, should be satisfied with that. but yeah...it's not really like the program's being run into the ground. it's par for the course.

11/28/2016 1:54:29 PM

Quote :

"next year has always been looked at as our most promising"

This should be the motto of our Athletic Department.

11/28/2016 2:36:00 PM

You know your coach sucks when even a win over UNC fails to placate the fanbase.

11/28/2016 2:39:50 PM

The calls for DD's head lost their ammunition when he beat UNC. 6-6 is what most pointed to as a successful season before it started.

[Edited on November 28, 2016 at 2:44 PM. Reason : ^coach...fanbase...mix of the two]

11/28/2016 2:41:22 PM

source? With our OOC schedule 6-6 should have been a breeze and was no great achievement.

11/28/2016 2:52:01 PM

^^ we had no idea going into the season that ND, FSU and Miami would be so bad.

11/28/2016 2:55:26 PM

^ND was terrible, so you're right about them. UL was better than we expected. And FSU could easily finish the season in the top 10. so...yeah that schedule wasn't as hard as we thought, but let's not act like Miami and FSU were awful. FSU went from being a national title contender to being a fringe top 10 team. that's not "bad". And Miami was a fringe top 25 team in the preseason (#26 by other receiving votes in the AP) and will likely finish the season pretty close to that. so i'm not sure what you're talking about there.

Quote :

"source? With our OOC schedule 6-6 should have been a breeze and was no great achievement."

lol at asking for a source on preseason fan expectations. everybody thought we'd go 3-1 OOC - we did. just not how people predicted. then we all thought we'd syracuse, wake, bc, and if we were lucky we'd steal a 4th ACC win. we didn't and finished 6-6. basically exactly on par with reasonable fans' predictions.

here ya go though

CBS Sports' panel of experts...out of 7, 5 picked us to finish 4th. 1 picked us 5th and 1 picked us 6th in the division. http://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/2016-acc-expert-picks-overrated-underrated-predicted-order-of-finish/

http://www.foxsports.com/college-football/gallery/cfb-preseason-picks-predictions-acc-clemson-florida-state-miami-bruce-feldman-082516

picked here by bruce feldman to go...whaddaya know, 6-6 (3-5)

http://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2016/6/22/11992316/acc-conference-football-2016-projections-rankings

i'll be damned, these advanced stats picked us to win 6.2 games.

http://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2016/6/15/11927502/nc-state-football-2016-preview-schedule-roster

last paragraph of this very indepth preview says we are "7-5 or so at best". so 6-6 is a hair under that best case scenario projection.

http://www.foxsports.com/college-football/gallery/cfb-preseason-picks-predictions-acc-clemson-florida-state-stewart-mandel-081816

stewart mandel thought we'd go 5-7 (2-6)

http://athlonsports.com/college-football/acc-football-2016-predictions

and look, another 6-6 (3-5) prediction

point is....reasonable people, fans and analysts alike, thought 7-5 was probably a best case scenario and 6-6 was more realistic. yes, this season was frustrating as hell. but let's not totally revise and/or ignore what reasonable preseason expectations were.



[Edited on November 28, 2016 at 3:11 PM. Reason : d]

11/28/2016 3:00:50 PM

I am saying that no one thought we would have a shot against any of those teams, and we did.

Before the year we thought 6-6 was doable because we were expected to win:

W&M
ECU
ODU
WF
BC
Syracuse

with losses to:
ND
Clemson
UL
FSU
Miami
UNC

so 6-6 was considered a solid year before the season.

That should clear it up for the dumb individuals.

11/28/2016 3:06:23 PM

44th ranked SOS isn't anything to brag about.

11/28/2016 3:11:32 PM

OK, I ask for a source that "most" pointed to 6-6 season as successful, and you post only a half dozen links to preseason predictions (says nothing about success of a season). So, those predictions were accurate? Congrats, I guess?

As so many have correctly pointed out, judging a seasons success relative to preseason predictions is completely foolish. Why can't you retroactively look at our schedule and admit that it wasn't near as difficult as "most" thought at the beginning of the season. With our week OOC schedule, we should have had six guaranteed wins.

6-6 and a bowl is not an achievement.

11/28/2016 3:23:38 PM

No shit, thats exactly what we are saying.

11/28/2016 3:26:40 PM

Good. Glad we agree. Fire Yow.

11/28/2016 3:31:28 PM

Quote :

"I am saying that no one thought we would have a shot against any of those teams, and we did."

so because the game was close means that we get to move the goalposts in regards to what our record should have been? regardless of how close or not close the game vs FSU was, that was still a game vs a top 15 (at worst, maybe more like top 10) team. just because we played well and shoulda won doesn't change the fact that it was a difficult, superior opponent who would probably beat us 9 out of 10 times. look, you called FSU bad. that's flat out wrong. it would've been a big upset if we won. like i've acknowledged, this was a frustrating season that could've been much better and yeah, we were very close to winning a couple games against superior teams. i've also acknowledged that our schedule wasn't as hard as it previously appeared. but you still can't start chalking up FSU as a "should be win" in hindsight because it was a close game...they, a top 15 team, beat us...they were supposed to beat us. and they did. how the game played out sucked and was heartbreaking...but FSU is better than we are. i totally get the point - but we still lost that game to a superior team, which shouldn't come as a surprise. just because it was a close game doesn't mean they don't beat us 9 out of 10 times.

synapse is right...most said 6-6 would be acceptable this year. and here we are at 6-6. it was a different path to 6-6 than we expected, but ultimately from a big picture standpoint, we finished the year about where most fans had expected.

11/28/2016 3:31:51 PM

Quote :

"Why can't you retroactively look at our schedule and admit that it wasn't near as difficult as "most" thought at the beginning of the season. With our week OOC schedule, we should have had six guaranteed wins. "

we have all acknowledged the schedule was not as hard as we predicted and we did win 6 games. we all still agree that losing to BC and ECU was embarrassing. there's very little to really debate about the point you're arguing here.

Quote :

"OK, I ask for a source that "most" pointed to 6-6 season as successful, and you post only a half dozen links to preseason predictions (says nothing about success of a season). So, those predictions were accurate? Congrats, I guess?"

so what source would you like? a message board fan saying that in their opinion 6-6 is successful? because isn't that what all this is...just measuring fan satisfaction? that's why i laughed at that and then posted actual predictions for the season. the point with the preseason predictions was to show that we basically finished about where everybody expected us to. that's no reason to build a statue, but it's also worth noting that nobody was realistically saying we'd be any better than this this year.

[Edited on November 28, 2016 at 3:48 PM. Reason : f]

11/28/2016 3:32:50 PM

^^^ Is it possible for you to back-pedal anymore?? Take your lumps and stop posting stupid shit.

[Edited on November 28, 2016 at 3:34 PM. Reason : .]

11/28/2016 3:34:40 PM

We are all agreeing. 6-6 and a bowl is not an achievement.

11/28/2016 3:46:52 PM

christ al fucking mighty

11/28/2016 3:48:05 PM

you guys complaining (HCH) didn't even post your preseason expectations before the season so you had nothing to look for. You are the type that was going to go off like this no matter what. I told everyone who wanted the right to complain, to post their season requirements in august. You didn't do it so now you just look like a brat.

11/28/2016 4:03:31 PM

HCH has always been a complete fucking nutjob about DD, including saying it was Championship game or bust for him last year, so this FIRE EVERYONE shit should be no surprise.

[Edited on November 28, 2016 at 4:26 PM. Reason : And just because 6-6=don't fire doesn't mean it's a fucking achievement..nice try with the goalposts]

11/28/2016 4:23:48 PM

Quote :

"And just because 6-6=don't fire doesn't mean it's a fucking achievement..nice try with the goalposts"

exactly. that's what i was trying to say by bringing up preseason predictions and stuff. but you said it more succinctly than i did.

11/28/2016 5:10:03 PM

maybe next season, you will clearly layout your evaluation process ahead of time then

11/28/2016 5:18:24 PM

I pretty clearly stated that we were building to compete for a championship last year (Sr. QB, deep D-line and RB), but we obviously fell way short. It's so easy now to predict that we will be going 6-6 every year, it's not even worth looking at it. But what does it matter what I predicted. What if I predicted us to win zero games this year, or go undefeated. It doesn't matter what my prediction (or any "experts" prediction) is, because you can't analyze results until after the season has actually occurred.

Anyway, this thread isn't arguing whether or not DD is a good coach. It's clear that he isn't. But we have an administration that is unwilling to move forward and find a coach that will progress the program. If we aren't moving forward, we are moving backwards, which is why 6-6 and a bowl is not an achievement.

11/28/2016 8:21:04 PM

you can't just say we're building for a championship and it be true. last year's team was simply not that good. all that stuff sounds good but it ignores reality. if you think that team was built to compete for a championship you just don't have a good grasp of entirety of the roster and the division and conference as a whole. that team did have a few really good players. that team also had lots of holes.

having an accurate (ie, based in reality) preseason expectation is a solid baseline to start with when evaluating whether or not the season's result is acceptable or not and how the program is trending. it certainly helps to base those preseason hopes and expectations in reality. of course, you are right, that you can't fully analyze a season until the end of it. but you also have to look at the full picture here.

Quote :

"which is why 6-6 and a bowl is not an achievement."

god fucking dammit nobody says it is.

11/28/2016 8:49:06 PM

Quote :

"I pretty clearly stated that we were building to compete for a championship last year"

No, you said if DD isn't in the Championship game then it was a bad hire aka FIRE HIM. But that's always been your war chant so you might as well pile some unachievable expectations on top of it to seemingly legitimize your ridiculous position.

And again:

Quote :

"just because 6-6=don't fire doesn't mean it's a fucking achievement..nice try with the goalposts"

11/28/2016 8:49:28 PM

he didn't just move the goal posts. he tore them down, took them out of the stadium and carried them a few miles down the road..

11/28/2016 9:25:23 PM

Quote :

"you can't just say we're building for a championship and it be true. last year's team was simply not that good."

What you aren't understanding is that college sports is cyclical. So good programs are able to build up to a level where they are (hopefully)contending for conference championships every 3-4 years, and then inevitably, that class graduates and the process begins again. Look at nearly every team in the ACC (other than FSU and Clemson recently) and this is the case. This is why even moderately well coached teams like Duke and UNC-CH have played in a championship game within the past few years.

As a program, we were clearly building for last year to be our peak year for all of the reasons mentioned above (Sr. QB, depth at d-line and RB). So it shouldn't be surprising that we finished this year with a worse record. What is clear is that the year we were building to as a program, produced a 7 win season. Not exactly the level of success I am happy with.

Quote :

"No, you said if DD isn't in the Championship game then it was a bad hire aka FIRE HIM. "

Actually what I said was that we should be COMPETING to play in the championship game, which we didn't even come close to. But that's pretty close to my message, so props to you for remembering my prediction from 2 years ago.

[Edited on November 28, 2016 at 10:24 PM. Reason : 1]

11/28/2016 10:20:26 PM

Quote :

"This is why even moderately well coached teams like Duke and UNC-CH have played in a championship game within the past few years."

No that is because they play in the weakest P5 division. They only have to play 1 of the top 3 teams in the conference and we have to play all 3. We were better this year and they still just barely missed the championship game.

11/28/2016 10:30:45 PM

Quote :

"Actually what I said was that we should be COMPETING to play in the championship game"

Nope. You said exactly what I said you said.

Quote :

"Anything less than an appearance in the championship game, and we can consider the Doeren hire a mistake."

11/28/2016 10:41:40 PM

Quote :

"As a program, we were clearly building for last year to be our peak year for all of the reasons mentioned above (Sr. QB, depth at d-line and RB). So it shouldn't be surprising that we finished this year with a worse record. What is clear is that the year we were building to as a program, produced a 7 win season. Not exactly the level of success I am happy with."

a 3rd year coach coming in for basically a complete rebuild shouldn't be expected to be competing for a title in his 3rd year...especially when Clemson was #2 in the nation last year. nobody was realistically saying Doeren was building all along for 2015. that's some revisionist shit. we thought we had a shot to surprise some people and win a couple games because we did have a few good pieces, but we weren't expected to compete for the conference title. overall we had a decent team that imo did underachieve by a game or two...could've been 8-4 or so. but that team simply was not built to compete for a conference title. that's just the truth, man. i get what you're saying...but overall that team was not as veteran as you're making it out to be.

Quote :

"So good programs are able to build up to a level where they are (hopefully)contending for conference championships every 3-4 years, and then inevitably, that class graduates and the process begins again."

that's not rreally how it works. you are constantly recruiting so that you don't have to begin the process all over after 3-4 years. good recruiting and roster building shouldn't leave you with gaps for a years. yes, you can get a veteran team to come up and contend for a conference title, you are right. but the process doesn't restart. it's a constant process that, if done correctly, is always moving in a positive direction.

11/29/2016 7:41:27 AM

Quote :

"This is why even moderately well coached teams like Duke and UNC-CH have played in a championship game within the past few years"

Obviously this has already been said....but it's because they play in the fucking Coastal Division.

11/29/2016 9:16:12 AM

The problems for football won't be fixed with just a new coach. We can't hire the type of massive impact coach it would take for a coaching change alone to fix things. It needs to be a marketing effort, success on the field, some luck, more guys being successful in the NFL, and even all that makes it hard to see where we become anything more than a 4-8 win program.

We are an average football program with average results and an average football tradition. Everything about NC State compared to other P5 schools is average. If you really are a big time recruit what pulls you to NC State? Playing time? That is the worst thing to sell a recruit on, even if true it is just code for "we suck." 10 years ago our current facilities would be great but everyone now is expanding their stadiums, getting indoor facilities, etc. Academics for those that care are average unless we find a hotbed of 325lb wanna-be veterinarians or nuclear engineers. We are a regional brand at best, talk to people from outside the area and they don't even know that NC State and UNC aren't the same thing. Took my extended family from up north a few years to understand I go to the red one not the blue one. Some of our marketing efforts have just been terrible fails.

There is just no buzz around the program. Some real basketball success would help football in making the school itself more marketable. I thought DD would be more creative as a coach to try and set us apart in some way, but he really hasn't does pretty much what every other school does these days offensively.

NC State is like those bars on Bar Rescue, a cheap face-lift and new management isn't going to change the foundational issues and even if things are good for a few weeks inevitably it goes back to being the same average place with bad food it was to begin with. Just with a new sign.

11/29/2016 12:13:43 PM

Neat

11/29/2016 1:07:36 PM

Scathing

11/29/2016 1:42:00 PM

^^^ Send out a few more [you = baller] xeroxes and we should be golden.

11/29/2016 3:53:42 PM

Tied for 7th in latest Directors' Cup standings

12/1/2016 10:58:20 AM

That's gotta be our highest finish ever, right?

12/1/2016 11:02:19 AM