it usually takes a week or so for the people looking to find it on the mls search. it took two weeks for us to get our first showing, and then we had 3 the same day a couple of days later.

8/9/2010 3:13:24 PM

It has been 4 weeks on the MLS. We had our 1st two showings this weekend. One it was too far away from their work and they other didn't like the kitchen.

If our house isn't under contract by Oct. 15th, we are putting renters in it Our Realtor hasn't really given us much hope. Our house is on 17 property websites beyond Zillow and MLS. After the work we did, I totally do not want to put renters in the house.....

8/9/2010 10:38:43 PM

Yeah, that sucks. We put our house on the market to move up, but worst case scenario is that we stay in a much improved home.

8/10/2010 9:15:00 AM

^ I was looking at your house online last night. Looks nice and it's priced pretty well compared to the others on your street.

8/10/2010 9:49:27 AM

Yeah, it is priced right and has more updates than most homes in the neighborhood running 50k+. Just have to wait and see!

8/10/2010 2:43:17 PM

does new carpet give off an odor that could be confused with smoke/cigarettes or was someone full of shit?

8/13/2010 9:23:59 AM

Full of shit.

8/13/2010 10:14:47 AM

new carpet smell... Mmmmmmm......

8/13/2010 10:22:15 AM

3 projects remaining on new house:

1) French Drain in the backyard (plus some more mulching)
2) Grilling Patio (probably made of pavers)
3) Screening in the back porch ($1,100 is what we were quoted - I think I can do it for ~$200)

8/13/2010 1:38:31 PM

Damn. Who would do it for $1100? That's a great deal.

8/13/2010 2:21:22 PM

3 different people, I think it is quite a ripoff

8/13/2010 3:33:39 PM

I've got three things left as well:

1) Have plantation shutters installed (well, not my project, but last big thing that will be done to the house)
2) Finish up yard. Going to put down tarp-like stuff (can't remember what its called) around plants and bushes, then cover that with pine straw. Weed prevention stuff
3) Figure out what I'm going to do with my patio. Its uncovered, about a 15' x 15' semi-circle of old stone. I've already got the grill out there, just trying to decide if I want to do a table and four chairs, or some combination of chairs, benches, and a small table. And whether I'm going to use aluminum/wicker/etc.

8/13/2010 5:41:45 PM

My mistake. I thought they were building the porch too.

8/14/2010 12:50:25 AM

Quote :

"does new carpet give off an odor that could be confused with smoke/cigarettes or was someone full of shit?"

if they have to seam it somewhere there is a burning smell for a few days but that is it

8/14/2010 2:36:02 PM

Had first showing this past week. They didnt make an offer, but the house showed really well. they stated that the house was the best house they saw in the neighborhood, but were looking to live closer to Wake Forest. Considering my house is one of the cheapest on the market in the neighborhood, but to them was the best, tell's me that I should be good to go once a few more people look at it.

8/16/2010 11:45:21 AM

Had a housemate move out this past week, so I'm working nights on that room. Walls painted on Monday. Went shopping yesterday for entry door, closet door, hardware, curtains, and trim paint. Replaced all the old cream white/brownish electrical outlets, telephone jack, and light switch last night with fresh bright white stuff. Still have to:
1. Paint trim. Base trim, door mouldings, window trim only...No crown molding in this room.
2. Paint closet.
3. Paint and install new doors for entryway and closet. Install doorknobs once the doors are in place.
4. Purchase and install ceiling fan where light fixture is currently.

I'm thinking two more nights should do it. I might save the ceiling fan for later though so I can wait to catch one that I really like on sale.

It's looking like a ~$225.00 job with the ceiling fan and bracket being about half of that cost. It will totally bring that room up to date as I would want it to be if I were selling the house (minus possible replacement carpet a few years down the road.)

[Edited on August 18, 2010 at 1:25 PM. Reason : l]

8/18/2010 1:21:39 PM

how much have yall spent to redo all your door hardware?

I'm thinking about doing nickel or ss outlet and switch plates, too.

8/18/2010 5:51:33 PM

~$13.50 per knob for the Schlage brushed bed & bath doorknobs I bought last night. You can spend a lot more for the heavy duty stuff though. I think the one I bought for my master bedroom (on a different floor than where the rest of these will go, so they don't have to match IMHO) was closer to $30.

~$8 each for the dummy knobs that go on closet doors.

8/18/2010 8:37:36 PM

Knobs and switchplates are jewelry for the home. Don't skimp, I say.

8/18/2010 10:11:51 PM

Anybody have any personal experience with tankless water heaters? My old ass tank water heater is on it's last leg and I'm thinking of going tankless. I read some reviews on lowes.com and homedepot.com and the reviews were all over the place.

8/19/2010 11:38:45 AM

I'll have to take a look at mine to see what brand it is. I'm mixed on it at this moment. It could be my plumbing, but it takes the shower a little longer than normal to get hot and it has a limit on how hot it can get. The hottest it can get is probably the perfect temperature for taking a shower, but I can see me wanting it to be a little hotter during the winter. And it takes FOREVER for the faucet water in that same bathroom to get hot. Puts a damper on trying to get a quick shave in the morning.

8/19/2010 11:43:56 AM

I thought the big plus with the tankless water heaters was you got hot water faster? Maybe your unit is located pretty far away from bathroom? Where did you get it? Did you install it or did they?

8/19/2010 11:57:46 AM

I thought the benefit was not having to pays for gallons of water to remain hot 24/7.

8/19/2010 12:01:17 PM

Quote :

"I thought the big plus with the tankless water heaters was you got hot water faster? Maybe your unit is located pretty far away from bathroom? Where did you get it? Did you install it or did they?"

I thought the benefit was that once it got hot, you wouldn't run out (as in, you could have several people take showers after each other and the water wouldn't get cold).

And I bought a house that was completely rebuilt and the contractor bought and installed a brand new one. I'm going to guess he got it from Lowes, since that's where he gets everything else. I'll check when I get home though.

8/19/2010 12:03:17 PM

I have a Rinnai tankless setup.

It takes 8 seconds to heat the water, so figure out how long it currently takes for hot water to get to your faucet and add 8 seconds to that.

It is a gas water heater, but it requires a tiny amount of electricity for the control panel so I had to put in an outlet in my crawlspace. The only thing you can adjust is the temperature setting. In the event of a power failure it resets to 105 degrees I think. Whatever the temp, it is way hotter than I can stand even for washing my hands. You can adjust the temp higher at the unit itself or you can purchase a remote control which is great if the unit is in your crawlspace or somewhere else that you don't want to go every time the power flickers. I actually don't know how long the power has to be off for it to lose the setting.

It was around $2400 installed which seems pricey until you consider:
I got close to $750 back as a tax credit this year from the economic stimulus program.
PSNC has a $100 rebate for installing an energy efficient appliance.
So my total cost was around $1550. A traditional tank system would have been around $1000 installed. My water heater is in the crawlspace, so gas bills in the winter were not cheap. The water heater was basically keeping 40 gallons on tap in a 30-50 degree crawlspace all winter long. It has been difficult for me to judge the total savings because I had one more housemate this past winter than I did in years past. It appeared that the gas bill stayed about the same despite the fact that there was an extra person there using energy. I'll have a better feel for the savings after this winter, but I can tell that they are very real.

Quote :

"I read some reviews on lowes.com and homedepot.com and the reviews were all over the place."

The Bosch and whatever else they carry in those stores had some terrible reviews when I read them too. I think a big part of this is from jackleg installers who don't pay attention to the diameter of gas piping and the gas meter itself. These things use a lot more gas when they're actually on than a stove, grill, etc. and they need a large supply pipe. I actually need to get my gas meter upgraded to support this thing. PSNC will assess your house's needs and upgrade the meter for free.

Quote :

"The hottest it can get is probably the perfect temperature for taking a shower, but I can see me wanting it to be a little hotter during the winter. And it takes FOREVER for the faucet water in that same bathroom to get hot. Puts a damper on trying to get a quick shave in the morning."

Is it set on the hottest setting? Is it getting enough gas?
You also have to turn the water on to a certain level to trip the sensor in the water heater and tell it to heat the water. If you turn it on at a trickle it won't crank the water heater up.

Quote :

"I thought the big plus with the tankless water heaters was you got hot water faster?"

There are "point of use" water heaters that install at the sink to provide instant hot water. This is basically a mini water heater that makes it so that you don't have to waste water or wait for the hot water to get to the faucet. Maybe JBrick should look into this at his shaving sink.

Quote :

"I thought the benefit was not having to pays for gallons of water to remain hot 24/7."

That is one of the benefits. Using a ton of energy for 15 minutes takes less gas than using a little energy 24x7.

Quote :

"I thought the benefit was that once it got hot, you wouldn't run out (as in, you could have several people take showers after each other and the water wouldn't get cold)."

That, too, is a benefit.

Other benefits:
- Most tank systems have a 6 year warranty and last less than 8 years now. These things come with 12+ year warranties and supposedly have a serviceable life of around 20-25 years.
- Tank systems can cause huge amounts of damage when the rust out if they are installed in the house. If the heater core on this did rust out 20 years down the road it's only going to drip a liter or so of water.
- It's a great selling feature for a house.

[Edited on August 19, 2010 at 1:40 PM. Reason : l]

8/19/2010 1:35:52 PM

this is what you have to remember for tankless heaters:

1. it takes the same amount of energy to heat a gallon of water whether it be in a tankless or a traditional heater...the tankless does it 'on demand' while the traditional pulls in water and keeps a reservoir of hot water ready for use at all times - 'on demand' as well

2. you gain in the efficiency benefits of a tankless heater if you have constant, random demand throughout the course of a day, ie...the life of a housewife or househusband or a house with a lot of kids/teens in it, using the washer, dishwasher, bath, etc...at different times during the day, depleting the would be water reserve in a traditional tank...if you live by yourself and only use water twice a day (morning/evening) you wont gain anything of note....your hot water tank isnt firing all day to keep it's stash of water hot. it might fire once or twice for a few minutes each.

3. a new, modern tank water heater is VERY well insulated...the hot water inside of it does not bleed off heat at the rate some would like you think it would...if you dont skimp on the size or the quality of a tank heater, IMO, you are not going to notice any difference in your energy bills



conclusion, tankless heater's sound nice. I do not think they are truly cost effective yet...not unless you have a large family and/or constant demand throughout a typical day.

[Edited on August 19, 2010 at 2:56 PM. Reason : ..]

8/19/2010 2:55:24 PM

Quote :

"conclusion, tankless heater's sound nice. I do not think they are truly cost effective yet...not unless you have a large family and/or constant demand throughout a typical day."

definitely. they work for some people but are not a good choice economically yet for a lot of people.

8/19/2010 3:11:12 PM

Quote :

"2. you gain in the efficiency benefits of a tankless heater if you have constant, random demand throughout the course of a day, ie...the life of a housewife or househusband or a house with a lot of kids/teens in it, using the washer, dishwasher, bath, etc...at different times during the day, depleting the would be water reserve in a traditional tank...if you live by yourself and only use water twice a day (morning/evening) you wont gain anything of note....your hot water tank isnt firing all day to keep it's stash of water hot. it might fire once or twice for a few minutes each. "

Do you have a source for this? If "it takes the same amount of energy to heat a gallon of water whether it be in a tankless or a traditional heater"* I don't see how you can save energy by having to maintain that heated water all day long regardless of how well insulated the tank is. The only time I was aware that the tankless ended up costing more was when people take extra long showers due to the fact that they never run out of hot water.
* I don't even know if I agree with this statement.

[Edited on August 19, 2010 at 5:34 PM. Reason : l]

8/19/2010 5:28:13 PM

Hey Skack who did you buy yours from? I think I'm ready to get one but I wanna get some quotes.

8/19/2010 5:45:10 PM

One thing to watch out for with the tankless is the size/pressure of your gas line. I thought about replacing the water heater in my attic with tankless, and had two different guys come out to give estimates.

The first guy was your standard commercial plumber type and was all like, "oh yeah we can use the existing gas line" without hardly looking at it.

The second guy was from the gas company and actually checked the line sizes... He pointed out that the tankless ones require insane BTUs. If I'd gone along with what the first guy was saying, I'd probably only be able to heat enough water to do one thing at a time (ie both showers wouldn't be able to go simultaneously).

Moral of the story...make sure when you're getting estimates from people who know what they're doing. And check your gas line size and pressure vs the tankless manufacturer's spec.

8/19/2010 7:42:14 PM

I don't have gas ran to the house. There are electric units available right?

8/19/2010 8:23:49 PM

^There are electric units but most people do not recommend them for whole home applications. They don't tend to heat the water fast enough. The small electric ones for each source work well (one at each sink, washing machine, etc)

Quote :

"2. you gain in the efficiency benefits of a tankless heater if you have constant, random demand throughout the course of a day, ie...the life of a housewife or househusband or a house with a lot of kids/teens in it, using the washer, dishwasher, bath, etc...at different times during the day, depleting the would be water reserve in a traditional tank...if you live by yourself and only use water twice a day (morning/evening) you wont gain anything of note....your hot water tank isnt firing all day to keep it's stash of water hot. it might fire once or twice for a few minutes each."

This is completely wrong. Tankless heaters give you the most savings when they are used very little and the least savings when you run them for long periods of time. The only benefit they give for prolonged use is that you don't run out of hot water unless your demand is too high (too many simultaneous uses).

In general I would say that tankless is not all that it is cracked up to be. Most people are probably not going to see a significant savings. One place they are very handy is with gas fired "low boy" water heaters in the crawlspace. These are now illegal to install or replace but you can replace it with a tankless one in the crawlspace or mounted outside of the house very easily.

The house I bought last year had a Bosch unit (I'm assuming from Lowes) and it was incorrectly installed. The bad installation caused the unit to go bad and the home warranty company replaced it with a better Rinnai unit.

General complaints (mine and other people I have talked to):
-For the same location as a tanked heater, it takes longer for the water to get hot (the unit has to pull cold water into it first to sense the incoming water temp so it knows how much it has to heat the water)
-Has an electronic ignitor so when the power goes out there is not hot water eventhough the heater is gas (I don't know if all models are like this)
-Requires a minimum flow of about .5 gpm so you won't get hot water if you just turn a faucet on a trickle
-There is a maximum flow that it will tolerate before the water won't be fully heated
-It is sometimes difficult to get an optimum water temp at a shower since the heating of the water is flow dependent and slow to respond (time for water to get from heater to shower) to changes in flow (turning hot and cold up or down).
-They do not work with certain types of faucets that cause a cross over between the hot and cold lines
-They are very fussy about "bad" plumbing
- Are typically more difficult to troubleshoot since there is a computerized control unit

Quote :

"4. Purchase and install ceiling fan where light fixture is currently."

This requires an electrical permit in the City of Raleigh. I'm sure you will be like everyone else and get one, right?

[Edited on August 19, 2010 at 9:20 PM. Reason : ]

8/19/2010 9:19:49 PM

Quote :

"One place they are very handy is with gas fired "low boy" water heaters in the crawlspace. These are now illegal to install or replace but you can replace it with a tankless one in the crawlspace or mounted outside of the house very easily."

This is what I had. It is impossible to find one, although none of the plumbers I talked to said it was illegal to replace. I was told there are new regulations as of about 5 years ago and the market for these just wasn't big enough for companies to develop a replacement.

Quote :

"This is completely wrong. Tankless heaters give you the most savings when they are used very little and the least savings when you run them for long periods of time."

That is my understanding as well. They take a huge amount of gas when they are actually running and, as far as I know, you get your savings from the fact that they only use gas for such a short period of time each day.


Ok, so I looked at my records...Here is my gas bill for the last three years. The 2/8/2010 bill is the first one with the tankless water heater installed.
2/8/2008 $157.61 (Skack + 1 housemate)
2/6/2009 $135.62 (Skack +1 housemate)
2/8/2010 $141.33 (Skack + 2 housemates)

So my bill didn't really change even though I had 50% more people taking showers. Also, the second housemate was very wasteful with the heat. He was always opening windows (even when there was snow on the ground, WTF???) or leaving the front door open like the storm door was some great insulator. I'm hoping it will go down this winter if nobody moves into my extra bedroom, but we'll see.

[Edited on August 19, 2010 at 10:15 PM. Reason : L]

8/19/2010 10:08:52 PM

Quote :

"This is completely wrong. Tankless heaters give you the most savings when they are used very little and the least savings when you run them for long periods of time."

it is not completely wrong. I do these things all of the time and have worked with tons of different plumbers and suppliers.

you are only if you compare against an old tank water heater. new, modern tank water heaters are so well insulated that you do not bleed of heat at anywhere near the rate they used to. water will stay hot inside the tank for a loooong time. this really cuts down on the amount of firing it has to do to keep the water in the tank at the desired temperature.

if you are constantly depleting the 20-30 gallons at a time in a tank, you are going to spend a lot more money reheating the 50 gallon capacity than only heating the water you need through a tankless.

bottom line is, I dont think you save the money on a tankless to make then worth the expense...yet.

8/20/2010 8:15:00 AM

closed on a house wednesday. woes incoming.

8/20/2010 10:02:35 AM

my only experience with the tankless water heater is the one at my uncle's house. The thing would get heat the water for like 3 minutes, and then turned itself off. You have to manually turn it back on again in order to for it to work again. I'm thinking some kind of safety mechanism is causing it to turn itself off every 3 minutes.

8/20/2010 10:52:12 AM

That's not normal.

8/20/2010 11:36:02 AM

I looked for a home improvement thread but couldn't find anything.

I'm planning on finishing out my basement and using a portion of it as a wine cellar. This will entail building a new wall and some sort of tile floor instead of the carpet that is down now.

I'd like to find a really cool set of old double doors leading into it. I stopped by the place at the Farmer's Market with that type of stuff and the only thing that I found was $2200, which is more than I'm looking to spend, even though it looked pretty cool.

Any recommendations? I'd like to look at a few more architectural salvage places, though I feel that ultimately I'm going to have to call up my old carpenter and see what he can whip up.

8/20/2010 4:45:37 PM

Quote :

"This requires an electrical permit in the City of Raleigh. I'm sure you will be like everyone else and get one, right? "

wtf? Tell me you are kidding? Do I have to pay a tax everytime I plug something in too?

8/20/2010 7:39:54 PM

^ pretty much

I don't think anyone would get a permit for something like that for their own house though. Just make sure if you're doing big changes yourself that you get permits for it. I've read that a lack of permits can become a huge headache sometimes when you try to sell the house. For little things like a ceiling fan, I doubt anyone would ever notice.

8/20/2010 8:34:47 PM

^^^ there is a place in fayetteville called the re-store that's like goodwill for house stuff. doors, windows, sinks, cabinets, appliances, etc. might be worth checking out.

8/20/2010 9:31:42 PM

Quote :

"there is a place in fayetteville called the re-store that's like goodwill for house stuff. doors, windows, sinks, cabinets, appliances, etc. might be worth checking out."

They are all over.

http://www.habitat.org/cd/env/restore_detail.aspx?place=80

8/20/2010 10:09:13 PM

Hilarious... My water heater lasts for 14 years, and has to spring a leak 2 weeks into the house sale. In any event, I replaced it myself this morning, and only set me back $500.

8/21/2010 5:38:08 PM

^^good to know!

8/21/2010 9:42:09 PM

Quote :

"This requires an electrical permit in the City of Raleigh. I'm sure you will be like everyone else and get one, right? "

I dont think this is true. unless there is something specific regarding ceiling fans, you dont have to pull a permit to replace a fixture to an existing box/location. permits are required when you change stuff behind the wall or in the circuitry.

8/22/2010 8:41:50 AM

Quote :

"What are some typical home improvement projects that require permits? * Construction, additions, remodeling, repairs, replacements, upgrades or any project over $5,000 * Accessory structures such as detached garages, sheds larger than 12 feet, platforms, green houses, etc. * Any project that involves structural support changes (roof or floor), load bearing walls, screened porches, decks, and balcony projects * Mechanical permit for replacing a hot water heater, duct running, ventilation, etc. * Plumbing permit for running lines or replacing shower and/or bath tub enclosures * Electrical permit for building projects that require electrical wiring such as installing ceiling fans, electrical outlets and overhead lighting * Landscape Irrigation system installation * Retaining walls that stand over four feet in height * Interior and exterior fire place and fire place inserts * Sky Lights * Re-roofing, if third layer of shingles * Exterior Siding "

This is certainly open to interpretation, but I guess a call to the city inspections department could solve it pretty quick. My understanding is that you have to pull a permit if you are changing the wiring in any way, but not if you are just changing the device at the end of the wire. I did pull an electrical permit when I installed the outlet for my tankless water heater because that entailed cutting the existing wiring, installing three new boxes, running new wire, and installing a GFCI.

I do not plan to pull a permit every time I switch a light fixture, outlet, or switch. $72 a pop...That would hurt. Although, admittedly, you can fuck this stuff up and end up with a fire hazard. I was taught the proper way to wire these things by a licensed electrical contractor and I fell pretty good about it as long as I use the techniques he taught me. ::knock on wood::

I have found some absolutely terrible wiring jobs in this house so far and I'm thankful I found it and was able to replace it before anything bad did happen.

[Edited on August 22, 2010 at 8:19 PM. Reason : l]

8/22/2010 8:19:10 PM

Quote :

"it is not completely wrong. I do these things all of the time and have worked with tons of different plumbers and suppliers. you are only if you compare against an old tank water heater. new, modern tank water heaters are so well insulated that you do not bleed of heat at anywhere near the rate they used to. water will stay hot inside the tank for a loooong time. this really cuts down on the amount of firing it has to do to keep the water in the tank at the desired temperature. if you are constantly depleting the 20-30 gallons at a time in a tank, you are going to spend a lot more money reheating the 50 gallon capacity than only heating the water you need through a tankless."

Yes i is. I did not say anywhere in there that Tankless was better. You said that a tankless system would be better to be used frequently throughout the day than only occasionally and I was saying that was wrong. While tankless heaters only heat the water you use, they do so by consuming large quantities of gas. A lot of the heat created from the combustion is not transferred to the water and is wasted. This waste is what makes your state incorrect. When you use a lot of hot water you generally will end up using less gas by having a tank water heater. The main advantage of the tankless heater in that high usage case is you never run out but even then, most gas fired tank water heaters have a pretty fast recovery time.

^I don't know about the permit, I was mostly just joking since I remembered seeing that text on the website. I wouldn't think it would be needed since it is just a fixture but on the other hand I could easily see that being a requirement since cieling fans require a better supported box than a normal ceiling light and a lot of people would just put them up with inadequate support.

I'm not sure if the wiring in my house is from when it was built or someone half assed changed things around but it is pretty gheto looking in the crawl space. Wired going in every direction, most not supported (some wrapped around pipes), etc. My Dining room has 5 outlets controlled by 3 different breakers (2, 2, and 1).

8/22/2010 10:38:15 PM

To continue my bad luck, a very large branch from a 100 year old tree at one of my rental properties just fell into my neighbors house and pool. I cant see any damage from the pictures. The tree was not obviously diseased, and appeared in good health, so hoping the 'act of God' means I dont have to pick up the bill through my homeowners...

8/23/2010 11:12:31 AM

Quote :

" Electrical permit for building projects that require electrical wiring such as installing ceiling fans, electrical outlets and overhead lighting"

So just out of curiosity, what if I added another outlet in a room (piggybacked an existing one to put an outlet where I mounted a flatscreen TV) and didn't pull a permit. How's anyone going to know? What are the consequences?

8/23/2010 11:33:01 AM

They aren't unless you go to sell and a home inspector notes that the particular outlet is completely unsafe and looks in to who did it and if they pulled permits. All that kind of stuff is really a gray area. If you ask the city they are going to say yes you need to pull a permit because it boost their revenues and covers their butts if something goes wrong. On the other hand if everyone that installed a light fixture or ceiling fan in an existing box pulled a permit, how in the world would they be able to keep up with the amount of inspections?

How would they inspect a ceiling fan installation without you having to take it down?

Also, its hard for me to take any solid advice from DaBird since he thinks it is ok for unlicensed contractors to build new homes and do extensive renovations. Just my opinion.

8/23/2010 4:03:44 PM