hahaha dude eats a block of cream cheese
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBYgMQvOmfk

PS- I too, would hit on Dmitry's wife in front of him.

7/30/2013 10:50:08 PM

So just a quick update. Last week, starting Tuesday, I jumped right into my weight training program with no recovery week from Insanity. Tuesday I had a good workout then Wednesday came. I had been having some issues sleeping the last few day so when I woke up so fatigued on Weds I just figured it was due to my lack of sleep and some excessive drinking over the weekend. Well Wednesday was terrible. I was extremely tired all day. Could barely stay awake on my drive home from work. When I did get home a went straight to bed. I felt like shit. I got in about an hour nap when my wife came home. She also has been experiencing sleepless nights and fatigue. We made a quick dinner and went to bed at like 8:00. We were exhausted. Looking back on it I think my body was reacting to a continued catabolic state. Fatigue and sleeplessness are known symptoms. So I decided to take a recovery week. I upped my calories and took it easy. In just one day I felt so much better!! I did finish up the week doing some Yoga on Sunday but other than that I took it easy.

So anyway, yesterday was the official start of my weight training program. I’m back on a 500 cal deficient diet. I did chest and triceps yesterday. I was doing moderate weight with reps going 6,8,6. I hadn’t been in the gym for 3 months so I didn’t want to push myself to hard but I pushed myself enough so that one or two more reps I would have broken form. This is my issue though. I didn’t get near the pump I have experienced in the past doing high rep lifts or even Insanity for that matter. I’m also not sore at all. I have some muscle tightness but nothing like I’m used to after taking a 3 month break from lifting. I’m not sure what to do. Should I go higher weight less reps, less weight and higher reps or stay at a 6,8,6 rep count and see how things go. I have noticed that my muscle endurance has improved. Several times on the first rep I was like, damn I don’t think I’ll be able to get 8, but I do and more easily than expected. Maybe I should just up the weight but I don’t want to go so high that I break form.

7/31/2013 8:58:36 AM

id stick with the program for at least 8 weeks before you consider changing things around. during that time make sure your nutrition and sleep stay in check. then see how you feel in a couple of weeks.

what do your macros look like?

7/31/2013 9:18:11 AM

Macros are looking pretty good. I've been averaging...

40% carbs
35% protein
25% fat

getting about 130-150 grams of protein a day. i'm thinking i need to cut some carbs and up the protein though.

[Edited on July 31, 2013 at 10:39 AM. Reason : 5]

7/31/2013 10:39:10 AM

looks fine, if its something you can sustain stick with it. even though youve been doing instanity, i think the most important thing is letting your body adjust to the new direction in your programming.

for most people, i think consistency plays more of a role in getting results than min/maxing all the little details.

[Edited on July 31, 2013 at 10:42 AM. Reason : ]

7/31/2013 10:41:45 AM

ok cool...thanks

7/31/2013 11:30:18 AM

Quote :

"Not bad. One day of lifting "heavy" at the beginning isnt a huge deal because youre relatively weak right now anyway. You just dont wanna maintain that type of lifting early on. Youll stall quickly, form will suffer, and huge risk of injury. Id drop the weight on squats a lot and concentrate on going LOW, and exploding upwards. Ive had to do that myself. Also make sure youre stretching the hell out of your groin after squatting and on off days. Your quads are no doubt stronger than your stabilizing muscles and groin will injure quickly if you dont build up slowly and work on flexibility. The first few weeks take it easy. Youll get strength gains with minimal effort so save the hard work for when you need it. Eat. A lot. You need at least 1.3g proteim per pound of lean body mass. 1.5g x bodyweight is probably a good approximation if you dont know your LBM."

My legs were shaking on the last set of squats and they are sore as fuck today. I'm basically waddling around.

I'm making a spreadsheet to calculate my dietary intake, but I'm having a tough time making sense of what percentage of my diet should come from protein, carbs, and fats. How do you determine and track your macros and maintainence levels? I'm 5'10 163lb when I started.

Everything points me here, but this is very confusing. http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=121703981

According to this I need 326 grams of carbs, 179 grams of protein, and at LEAST 48.9 grams of fat a day. Is that right? From what I can tell, my BMI is 23.55; BMR should be 1790, and my BF% (depending if I measure my waist flexed or totally out - 32"-34.5") 15-22%.

So ~60% protein; 30% carbs; ~10% fat?

Meaning in calories: 1304p; 715c; 440f = total 2460 calories a day?

[Edited on July 31, 2013 at 11:56 AM. Reason : recalcualte]

7/31/2013 11:50:20 AM

Get the MyFitnessPal app and use it!! Use it every day. It’s really easy and the bar code scanner feature is a life saver. You’ll be able to track your macros, calories and other nutrients very easily. A while back I picked up a heart rate monitor as well so I know how many calories I’m burning when exercising. This helps when calculating net calories. Once you have used it for a while you can look at weekly totals and averages which helps. You can also track metrics like weight, BF%, waist measurement, etc.

As far as macros go, I think you got your percentages mixed up. Looking at your numbers (326 grams of carbs, 179 grams of protein, and at LEAST 48.9 grams of fat) that would be 60% carbs, 32% protein and 8% fat. I think it’s recommended to have 35% carbs, 35% protein and 30% fat but I’m sure some others on here can chime in.

also....don't forget water. drink a shit ton of it. not only does it help prevent bloating, it will help you shed water weight and acts as an appetite suppressant. if i get hungry between meals i'll chug 20oz of water and that will usually hold me over till the next meal.

[Edited on July 31, 2013 at 12:27 PM. Reason : h20]

7/31/2013 12:07:57 PM

Thanks, I'll look into the app for sure and the heart rate monitor isn't a bad idea, either.

Even before I started working out I was drinking at least a gallon of water a day. I love water, I don't understand how other people don't like to drink it. My problem will be eating enough, rather than trying to suppress my appetite. Yesterday, for example, I only took in 1770 calories... I'm trying to bring that up though.

Also sorry for all of the questions, I'm just trying to get started on the right foot and there's so much damn conflicting information out there.

[Edited on July 31, 2013 at 12:49 PM. Reason : thx]

7/31/2013 12:44:41 PM

hey dude no worries. this thread was made for questions. if you are trying to gain weight then you definitely need to eat more then maintenance calories. good luck and keep us updated on your progress.

[Edited on July 31, 2013 at 1:00 PM. Reason : re]

7/31/2013 12:59:52 PM

For gaining muscle mass really only 5 things are important nutritionally.

Calorie surplus, protein surplus, enough fat, enough carbs, sufficient hydration.

To figure out total calorie intake 16-18 cal/lb is a good estimate. If youre a beginner or somewhat active at work id start at 18.

So 163 lbs = around 3, 000 calories a day.

At 163 id consume at least 200g protein (enough of a buffer if you miss occasionally).
You need 2-3g of carb per lb so 320-480g carbs.

You need at least 10% of daily calories as fats so you dont screw up your testosterone levels. Aim for 20-25% so 600-750 calories or 70-85g fat.

Just make sure youre hitting 200g protein, 70g fat, 320g carb, and 3, 000 total calories. The exact percentages wont matter after that. And drink a lot of water. Even minor dehydration causes strength to suffer.

7/31/2013 5:29:31 PM

Sparky:

There is a lot more to shedding fat while retaining muscle than there is to gaining muscle. Here are some helpful tips. Your body undergoes a lot when youre catabolic.

1) Vitamins and nutrients. You will crash without proper nutrients and it can hamper fat loss. At a minimum id take 6-10g fish oil, multivitamin, vitamin c, and calcium to keep yourself healthy and not fatigued. Id also take vitamin d for its fat loss benefits and calcium absorption.

2) high protein. At your current bodyfat while lifting you need 1.25g protein per LBM. Id go with 180g for your current weight /composition. This will minimize muscle loss. If you dont get sufficient protein on a diet the muscle loss will be swift. Your protein requirements will rise as you lose fat. Under 15 you will have less free fatty acids in your blood stream and your body will need to get energy somehow. Lets just say you want it to come from dietary protein and not broken down aminos in your muscles.

3) fat/carb ratios. Macros arent really THAT important. However if the goal is fat loss I think its obvious you dont want to eat much fat. In fact the less the better to an extent. Do NOT go below 10% of total calories because it screws testosterone levels. So if youre eating 1600 calories, 160 (18g) need to be fat. Not tough to do. Monosaturated fats are easier to mobilize and burn than saturated fats so stick to them when possible.

Carbs are your bodies preferred source of energy. So if you want to optimize fat loss, restrict them. Less than 50g a day is optimal for fat loss. Ideally, the carbs you eat will be high fiber as it is satiating, extremely low calorie (1.5 cal/gram is digested), and aids fat burning.

4) Lift heavy. Lifting light, lifting frequently, marathon workouts, lots of cardio are all great ways to BURN MUSCLE. Workouts should be short and sweet but heavy. I wouldn't do more than 2-3 upper body or 1-2 lower body workouts a week. 5 reps is your sweet spot ultimately but id do several training sessions in the 8 rep range initially for safety/health. Maintaining muscle is much, much easier than gaining muscle and does not require many sets or sessions.

5) For optimal results you can boost your metabolism and limit hunger with caffeine, ephedrine, green tea, and cinnamon.
Ephedrine is also the god of muscle retention as it makes you less catabolic on calorie restriction.

6) low intensity steady state cardio (walking) is the best cardio. High intensity will screw with your strength and cause muscle loss. Intervals are a bit too demanding save them for later.


[Edited on July 31, 2013 at 6:07 PM. Reason : a]

7/31/2013 6:01:43 PM

^lots of wrong in that.

7/31/2013 10:19:27 PM

^ dont bother. its not worth it

7/31/2013 10:27:28 PM

Body weight exercises on a park bench. Pretty awesome.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=195484760619920

8/1/2013 12:59:47 AM

Actually theres not one incorrect statement

8/1/2013 1:10:07 AM

Actually theres not one incorrect statement

8/1/2013 1:10:07 AM

So what would happen to my body if I were to start lifting medium-heavy 3 times a week (basic compound exercises), cardio perhaps once a week, but eat at my BMR or even slightly less, but significantly more protein than I do now while not working out?

Would I drop about equal amounts of fat and muscle, or more of one than the other? I think should drop more of the fat and increase in definition, strength, and apparent size.

8/1/2013 2:00:41 AM

you have to make a choice really...put on size and some fat in the process probably or cut and lose some muscle mass.

while this isnt 100% true for everyone its normally the rule.

eating at BMR is ok...but make sure you are eating the correct things at the correct levels.

I could eat a 2000 calorie burger but that doesnt feed my body like I need to after heavy lifting.

50-25-25 with carbs protein and fat should be a decent place to start.

8/1/2013 2:22:18 AM

Yeah eating is no issue as I am knowledgeable in that. I would be eating at BMR or below, but my macro ratios would be for bulking not cutting, and I will be lifting 3 times a week, again, as if for bulking, i.e, moderately compound exercises with just once a week mild cardio.

Just wondering what would happen to my body in that scenario.

8/1/2013 3:34:22 AM

You'll probably get worn out pretty quickly. High deficit + lifting heavy + cardio = not enough fuel to recover from your activity very successfully. A "bulking" diet comes from the caloric excess, not macros. You probably will "drop more of the fat and increase in definition, strength, and apparent size" at first, but I doubt your exact plan will keep you going strong for too long.

Side note, ThePeter got us a pretty awesome wedding present.

8/1/2013 7:47:00 AM

Nice!

8/1/2013 9:09:10 AM

I hope I don't ever have to get into the minutia of eating and working out that some do in here. No doubt there is a science behind every fitness goal, and for certain people with certain goals, getting into that level of detail is needed to get on track (major body reshaping or hitting your body limits for example). But for a lot of people, the level of detail that people get into can definitely be a little overkill if they're just looking to generally shape up or get a beachbody.

8/1/2013 10:11:12 AM

So OEPII its a bit more complicated in a true beginner and I probably should have addressed this in response to ncsu allday. I guess I just assumed everyone participating in this thread has done some strength training in the past.

When you first start a lifting program you aren't really going to build mass the first several weeks. Your gains will be neural and youll make really significant strength gains without much accompanying muscle mass. This is because youll be lifting so light that it really isnt sending strong growth signals. Youll be building muscle memory, tendon strength, etc but squatting 85 lbs or benching 115 really isn't that taxing on your CNS or anabolic for muscle development.

As a true beginner youre going to gain strength whether you eat above or below maintenance. Because of this its recommended usually to eat at a caloric deficit the first few weeks and take advantage of the ability to make gains while dropping excess body fat.

You will notice your muscles appearing bigger but thats not much about their true size ad it is other factors. Lifting is going to cause you to increase your glyogen stores in your muscles which will pull water into them as well making them appear fuller.

Anyway, this is not really a long term good strategy but for the first ~6 weeks sure lift 3x/week and eat a mild deficit. Youll definitely make visual body composition improvements and be less fat when you decide to really add muscle later.

Long term eating at maintenance while lifting is somewhat wasteful aesthetically. Your gains will plateau and you will even get weaker eventually as you fatigue. You will however get immense health benefits ranging from improved insulin sensitivity, resting heart rate, calorie partitioning, bone density, etc.

8/1/2013 10:14:26 AM

^^Makes me thank god that I stayed in shape in college and early 20s. Maintaining is a lot easier than transforming.

8/1/2013 10:37:23 AM

yep. Pretty much exactly how I feel. I didn't really think about it at the time since I've just always stayed very active from a young age. Looking back though now at almost 29, I am very glad that even in my personal worst periods of working out, I was in maintenance mode and hitting the gym probably once a week.

I'm hoping that momentum I've built carries me at least well into my 30s before I ever have to start changing anything major

8/1/2013 10:42:18 AM

theres at least one person here that would much rather discuss the minutia than do any actual work in the gym

8/1/2013 10:44:27 AM

Started swimming again. Forgot how much I loved it.

8/1/2013 12:42:56 PM

Well im an efficient person.

There are only 168 hours in a week and I have a lot of interests.

Id rather understand the science and get the most out of the ~2 hours im willing to devote to working out per week.

Most gym goers are wheel spinners. They arent super huge, super strong, ir supercut. Yet they spend countless hours doing the shit. Its like they prefer the act of working out but are in different if they get results or not.

Also, I average over 100 drinks a week with very little sleep and am lucky to hit the gym on average every 4 days. I need to make my diet/training regimen as advanced and as efficient as possible to get solid results despite the obvious shortcomings to my approach.

Ultimately drinking, women, and money are more important to me than what I bench press. But that doesnt mean I dont want to look as good as possible while I watch myself in the mirror Christian Bale style. Narcissism is a part oof all our fitness goals.

Since ive already spent countless hours studying real diet/training physiology and know a lot about it im happy to share. Especially because there is so much misguided advice floating around out there as fact. Im partially sensitive to that because I wasted so many hours overtraining and undereating in my late teens/early 20s

8/1/2013 6:02:31 PM

Thanks face.

But, I am not a true beginner. I habe done strength training on and off over the past 15 years, but haven't done it for a while now. Below are the periods when I have lifted.

98-02
04-05
08, few months
12, couple months

Would that change any of what you said, or am I basically a true beginner since I haven't lifted regularly for quite a while and so, what you said still applies for the most part?

8/1/2013 6:30:58 PM

Seeing that you've only lifted for a few months over a year ago and before that had a break of four years...I imagine you're starting from square one.

8/1/2013 7:22:21 PM

All I want is a big round rump, but instead, I've seen improvements everywhere else.

But today I think I finally woke my ass up, and I'm super stoked about it. My journey to a late-in-life stripper career has begun.

8/1/2013 7:55:20 PM

Anyone have a favorite lifting routine they could share? I have had a routine that I do once a week for about 6 years that I haven't changed up and know that I need to. I am open to lifting more than once per week, but just find I don't have the time or enjoy the athletic conditioning classes more.

General goal is just to lose fat and not get bulky.

8/2/2013 8:17:51 AM

here is mine...



the program consists of set of 6,8,6 where you can barely get the last rep with out breaking form. the exercise is aimed at preventing muscle loss while on a calorie deficient diet. even with 150 g of protein intake a day i still expect to loose a few pounds of muscle but hopefully mostly fat.

8/2/2013 8:27:13 AM

Had an interesting workout today. We did 8 sets of power clean at 70% of our one rep max trying to get as many reps as possible in 30 secs, resting 30 sec between sets. I do not know exactly what my power clean max is, but I think it's around 245 so I did 175. I was getting between 4-6 reps each set. I enjoyed that part of the workout.

But then we followed it up with a 5 minute air dyne for max calories. That sucked ass. The air dyne was designed by the devil. I only got 101 cals which is shitty for 5 min, but I was already wiped out from the power cleans.

Then we finished with some low intensity core work doing 3 sets of 10-15 toes to bar using strict form. My legs are still tingly from the air dyne and it's been 3.5 hrs since we finished.

8/2/2013 9:27:23 AM

Quote :

"Seeing that you've only lifted for a few months over a year ago and before that had a break of four years...I imagine you're starting from square one."

I feel like I started from square one when I made a life change and decided to get in shape back in May. Previously I had a pretty regular routine of weight training and playing racquetball with no diet restrictions. I always ate healthy food, just way too much of them. Now, 18 lbs lighter let me share with you the biggest lesson I learned. IT’S ALL ABOUT THE DIET!! You can’t compete with what you eat. I don’t care how hard you work, if you are taking in a 500 calorie surplus you will get fat. If you want to lose weight you have to maintain a calorie deficit. It has never been so important to count calories. Second thing I learned is that if you want to minimize muscle loss you have to take enough protein. It’s essential. There are many more things I've learned along the way but those are the big 2.

8/2/2013 10:06:51 AM

Oepii , no youve had enough off a layoff that I wouldn't change anything in my post.

The only difference is that if youve had significant muscle development in the past it will come back much quicker than in a true beginner.

As far as weight training youre basically a beginner as a 180 lb male if you cant deadlift 300, squat 250, and bench 200. Considering it should only take ~2 years for a total noob to reach those levels if you cant hit around those totals its pretty silly to do advanced training methods like splits, high volume, etc

[Edited on August 2, 2013 at 5:12 PM. Reason : a]

8/2/2013 4:57:26 PM

so I've been training relatively well the past ....idk 12 weeks? recently took the FBI special agent fitness test and ended up scoring 9 points which is way better than I thought I'd do. hoo-rah.

ANYWAY. I am still fucking useless at pullups and I found this site

http://twentypullups.com/

does that look like it would work? I have I think 13 weeks until my tough mudder and I'd like to be able to do like 5 pullups by then.

and if it doesn't look like it would work, what would? I've been using the assisted machine at the gym but I've decided that thing is fucking USELESS. I have barely improved at all.

ok thanks tww

8/5/2013 12:29:16 PM

Get some elastic bands for that purpose (see Rogue Fitness or any of the like) and use them wrapped around the pull-up bar with your foot in the band(s). Use less bands when you get stronger and eventually use none. It works a lot better than the assisted machine because you still have to do a lot of stabilizing. You could also bend your legs and have a friend hold on to the lower portion and help you up, the bands will be easier as you can increase and decrease the help.

8/5/2013 2:00:11 PM

The band method is good, but I think negatives helped me more than anything else.

Two other things PackMan92 taught me that helped:
-inverted rows on a Smith machine, where you lean back under the bar with your body in a straight line and pull yourself up to the bar that way. You can lower the bar as you get stronger.
- set a bar to around shoulder height, crouch down and grab the bar like you would for a pullup. Keeping one or both feet on the ground, pull yourself up with as little help from your legs as you can. Some people have a hard time being able to do that without using their legs too much, but if you can wrap your mind around the idea it does help. And you will get weird looks. But I can do pullups now so fuck the haters.

Also try chin-ups. Those came much easier to me at first, so I started by doing those until I could do a few and then switched to pullups.

[Edited on August 5, 2013 at 2:22 PM. Reason : what happened to that pullup challenge everyone was broing out about weeks ago?]

8/5/2013 2:20:58 PM

I actually found kipping helped my pull-ups a ton. Once I got kipping down I could knock out way more strict than before, mainly because I could do so many more reps by kipping compared to the few I could do strict that I got a better workout.

8/5/2013 2:45:57 PM

http://www.marksdailyapple.com/the-evidence-continues-to-mount-against-chronic-cardio

8/7/2013 1:50:10 AM

I wouldn't recommend kipping pull-ups to anyone that cannot perform the movement strict. Banded pull-ups, negatives, and various types of rowing exercises to build lat strength will help.

8/7/2013 5:20:23 AM

I can do them strict so works for me

Actually I do them strict now that I am not doing crossfit wods

8/7/2013 8:12:05 AM

Yeah kipping before you can do correct form is a great way to injure shoulder joints and a poor way to get stronger.

Negatives and strict form are the fastest way. Also shedding gut will make them easier.

8/7/2013 8:19:30 AM

Hey skokiaan, how many more times are you going to post the same thing?!

You're mostly preaching to the choir here, but I'm not sure how I feel about articles like that. Sure the intentions are good and the point is well made to people who are into fitness, but as someone who works with the general public (on the subject of health), I'm concerned about the myths/hype this may spawn. Maybe I'm just being pessimistic, but based on my experience I can see this going down the "I heard cardio was bad so I just don't exercise" road.

8/7/2013 10:54:28 AM

Yeah that article references a study that compares excessive exercisers to moderate exercisers:

Quote :

"Endurance athletes are at a greater risk for atrial fibrillations than the general, non-running public. One recent study of cross country skiers even found that the best athletes, the top performers, were more likely to have cardiac arrhythmias than the rest. Moderate exercisers, meanwhile, are at a lower risk for AF than the general, non-running public. Read more: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/the-evidence-continues-to-mount-against-chronic-cardio/#ixzz2bIXR3lq5"

If you dig into the study it describes endurance athletes and excessive exercisers as people who train all day every day (like professional athletes). I think if you run an hour a day you are easily in the "moderate exerciser" category and hence are at a "lower risk for AF than the general, non-running public."

8/7/2013 11:36:40 AM

well I don't have a bar at home and the gym doesn't have bands (that i could find) so I guess I'll be doing hangs and negatives until I can do a pull up

thanks errbody preesh

8/7/2013 12:20:05 PM

bands are not too expensive, if you only need 1 or 2

but you can spend quite a bit if you buy 2 of every size

8/7/2013 1:36:24 PM

So I’ve noticed that my weight loss has stagnated. I have a pretty good idea why. With the weight I have already lost my BMR has reduced. When I started this diet/exercise program my BMR was just over 2,000 cal/day. I went on a 500 cal/day deficient to meet my goal of 1 lb fat loss per week. I just calculated my current BMR and it’s right over 1700 cal/day. So with my current 1500 cal/day diet I’m at a 200 cal/day deficit, thus the slowing of weight loss. My question is, in order to get back to 500 cal/day deficit I would have to be eating 1200 cal/day total. Is this dangerous while also implementing a strenuous weight lifting program? With the amount of protein shakes (140 cal x 2 a day) and protein bars (270 cal once a day) I’m eating almost half my calories in just supplements. In order to get the protein I need (at least 120 grams/day) and not go over 1200 cal/day it looks like I’m going to have to almost completely cut out carbs, and maintain a high fiber/high protein diet. I see a lot of fibrous leafy greens (kale, bok choy, mustard greens) and lean meat (chicken breast, fish, egg whites) in my future. Damn this is going to be tough!!

8/8/2013 10:44:57 AM