I guess it's because I work in the industry so the way you used it was weird.

"To churn" or "credit card churn" means to cancel your account and thus cancel your credit card. So saying "latest churn approved" makes no sense syntactically. You're basically saying you got approved to cancel your cards. Your cards got approved. You're not churning until you actually cancel said cards.

3/18/2016 7:21:06 PM

Quote :

""To churn" or "credit card churn" means to cancel your account and thus cancel your credit card."

Disagree. At the very least, it's a reference to the entire cycle, and most often specifically the starting point where you actually apply for said cards, get approved, and meet minimum spending requirements.

3/19/2016 3:00:58 AM

I thought a true "churn" was getting the same card with a bonus twice. Hence, Amex cards are now no longer "churnable" since it's a one per lifetime rule per card.

With that being said, I do agree with David0603 that churn is used so often for the general process of applying for a bunch of cards only for the bonus and moving on to another.



[Edited on March 19, 2016 at 8:06 AM. Reason : .]

3/19/2016 8:03:30 AM

I thought churn was something butter was made in.

3/19/2016 10:01:33 AM

I work in the credit card industry with many of the major banks you guys have cards with. I've also worked on statistical churn models specifically relating to credit card holders in this segment. I can tell you with 100% confidence that "to churn" in the credit card industry means "to attrite" aka close your account.

In fact if you look up the definition of customer churn this is exactly what it means:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Churn_rate
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Customer_attrition
https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/churn

Voluntary and involuntary churn are two terms used very frequently in the industry. Customer attrition is one of the biggest analytic areas of any major card organization within a bank (retail too). All the limits on your ability to churn on a particular card (close it) then sign up for another one are based on profitability models by segment.

Quote :

"I thought a true "churn" was getting the same card with a bonus twice. Hence, Amex cards are now no longer "churnable" since it's a one per lifetime rule per card."

If you call a CSR or talk to anyone in the banking industry someone who attrited or churned is someone who cancelled their card/account. Period. It doesn't matter if you're a revolver or just signed up for the card for the bonus. If you cancelled it you're a voluntary churner. If the bank cancelled it for you you're an involuntary churner.

We're constantly looking at "on us" (your accounts with a bank) or "off us" variables (your credit score or other cards you have with other banks) as drivers in a churn analysis. So let's say you sign up for a Chase card Chase knows what other cards you have with Capital One and they'll use that to segment you (however there are rules around how they can treat you based upon off us variables). This is all pretty basic stuff if you google predictive churn modeling.

With all that being said I probably don't frequent as many credit card bonus or travel blogs and forums as you guys so if this is the common lingo on those sites then I'm not in a place to refute that. I'm just pointing out what churn means to me and what it means from an industry perspective (both in analytics and business).

[Edited on March 19, 2016 at 1:01 PM. Reason : spelling]

3/19/2016 1:00:51 PM

Clearly, neodata686 is the most insufferable user on this entire site.

His argument against the clearly common but yes, informal usage of that word is bad enough to maintain that status, but he really drives it home with his "IIIIIIIIIIII work in the industry, IIIIIIIIII work on statistical models, it's basic stuff google predictive churn modeling" blah blah blah shit.

Give it a rest dude. The title is yours.

3/19/2016 1:20:34 PM

In this instance that post was in no way as insufferable as your post. Go post in chit chat. This is a credit card thread about credit cards. Posting knowledge about the industry and what terms are used in the industry are in no way insufferable.

Also notice how I am very specific in pointing out my lack of knowledge in the area:

Quote :

"With all that being said I probably don't frequent as many credit card bonus or travel blogs and forums as you guys so if this is the common lingo on those sites then I'm not in a place to refute that."

So yeah just giving another view on the matter. Nice try though.

-Also I did some research and nowhere can I find the term "my churn was approved". I can see saying "the latest cards I plan to churn on for points were approved" but saying "my churn was approved" isn't using the term correctly. It's literally saying "I was approved to cancel my card" when the poster meant "I was approved FOR a card". It's the opposite of what he meant to say. Again MY OPINION. Call it insufferable if you want.

[Edited on March 19, 2016 at 3:29 PM. Reason : s]

3/19/2016 3:15:31 PM

For some reason - Neodata reminds me of this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1F7hZzIckA

3/19/2016 9:13:20 PM

These days 80% of my seriousness is bait for synapse and 20% is for self-satisfaction. Although there's a lot of overlap there.

3/20/2016 12:54:15 AM

Quote :

"Also I did some research and nowhere can I find the term "my churn was approved". I can see saying "the latest cards I plan to churn on for points were approved" but saying "my churn was approved" isn't using the term correctly."

Jesus Christ. I'm glad I don't have to spell things out on a five year old level for the rest of the posters, and for the record...


http://www.pointswithacrew.com/november-2015-churn-results/

3/20/2016 2:05:16 PM

You're missing my point entirely. From the beginning I said I wasn't refuting or debating how a "card to churn" aka "card to close" credit card was discussed. I understand people call them "churners" or reference them as "the card I plan to churn with".

What I'm refuting is the way you phrased it. Saying "latest churn approved" means you got approved to cancel. That is incorrect. You got approved to open the cards not cancel them. If you had said "my latest churner" got approved then that would have made a little more sense. I just was pointing out it sounded weird the way you phrased it. Carry on I was just debating semantics.

Quote :

"His argument against the clearly common but yes, informal usage of that word is bad enough to maintain that status"

Exactly. I was trolling the usage because it sounded funny to me because in the last year I've used the word formally a lot and this was an informal usage and it sounded funny. My apologies to those I've offended. I'm good with the churning butter definition.

[Edited on March 20, 2016 at 4:26 PM. Reason : s]

3/20/2016 4:11:30 PM

For fucks sake I told you the title was yours.

Give it a rest.

3/20/2016 5:07:09 PM

I don't know with how much you've been calling me out for it you may be starting to steal that title. You just can't hold yourself back!

3/20/2016 5:16:47 PM

Neo, while the banking system referring to 'churn' simply may indicate a 'change' in account status, for anyone not in the industry, churn is the ability to close a card and then reopen it at a later date and get an additional bonus. period.

3/20/2016 5:24:15 PM

See that's all I wanted was a civil debate.

Churn does not refer to a 'change' it directly refers to losing a customer. When a customer churns they leave the bank or close a card. Churn = attrition = closing/canceling your account. Period.

Simply google "churn analysis" or "churn model". You'll get a ton of results on how to do a predictive churn model. Churn is NOT the ability to close and reopen an account it's the action of closing one's account or ending their relationship with a particular entity.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Churn_rate

Quote :

"Churn rate (sometimes called attrition rate), in its broadest sense, is a measure of the number of individuals or items moving out of a collective group over a specific period of time. "

Your ability to churn (whether voluntarily or involuntary) has NOTHING to do with your ability to then re-open that card later down the road. They're not related. You can cancel a credit card regardless of whether you can open it back up later. If I churn on a card then am not able to open it later I still churned from that account.

3/20/2016 5:33:52 PM

Quote :

" I was trolling"

Quote :

"all I wanted was a civil debate"

Quote :

"I probably don't frequent as many credit card bonus or travel blogs and forums as you guys so if this is the common lingo on those sites then I'm not in a place to refute that."

Quote :

"What I'm refuting is the way you phrased it."

3/20/2016 5:57:59 PM

Yes all those reiterate my original point. "To churn" means to end a relationship with an entity. In relation to a credit card it means to cancel your card. Period. I'm not sure how I can put that more clearly...

3/20/2016 6:06:03 PM

Who cares how the industry uses it. It's how the users of the forum use it.

3/20/2016 7:19:07 PM

Which he's conceded he's "not in a place to refute," but strangely, he keeps trying.

3/20/2016 9:18:51 PM

Not trying. Just stating the definition not my opinion. As I said carry on. I'm not saying you shouldn't use the term incorrectly I'm just pointing it out.

3/20/2016 9:41:20 PM

"hey basketball player, why are you calling that ball a "rock" when it's clearly a ball? I'm a geologist and I've NEVER seen a rock made of rubber"

3/21/2016 7:31:22 AM

Yesterday I received an "invitation" for a card that carried a $995 annual fee.

Are they serious? Is this really a thing? And do people actually do this? Why in God's name would you waste that kind of money? The rewards they offer couldn't possibly come close to spending 1000/year on just having a credit card.

3/22/2016 7:17:30 AM

it's a stupid card and will ultimately fail but

50,000 point bonus sign up, redeemable for 2% cash-back on your statement is the fee back right there. Plus $200 in airline credit, $100 in global entry sign-up and "luxury gifts," whatever that is. Rewards definitely exceed the fee in the first year.

I can see people doing it for a year just to have an actual gold plated card. Also if they need a new card for their CHURN

3/22/2016 8:02:29 AM

The Barclay Gold? If that is the one, it looks totally stupid. Doesn't even have the benefits of the Amex Platinum, but is double the cost.

3/22/2016 9:43:12 AM

It would be cool to have a gold-plated card, but I probably won't consider it for my next churn.

3/22/2016 9:59:28 AM

Guys, you totally used the word churn incorrectly. I also believe one of you may have ended a sentence in a proposition and I feel sure I've seen a split infinitive in the last 43 pages as well...

3/24/2016 12:37:58 AM

I leave the country for two weeks and come back to a bunch of douches ruining this thread when all I want to do is see offers and strategies. Thanks guys.

3/24/2016 12:54:14 AM

gf and I BOTH have this card....on top of what he said...

David0603
All American
12452 Posts
user info
edit post
Earn 6% Cash Back at U.S. supermarkets up to $6,000 per year in purchases (then 1%); 3% Cash Back at U.S. gas stations; 3% Cash Back at select U.S. department stores; and 1% Cash Back on other purchases.

https://www.americanexpress.com/us/credit-cards/blue-cash-preferred

and chase for rotating categories




You can also get some good cash back on certain places to eat, cruise, etc. I love it. Just they gave her 3K and only gave me 1K lol

3/24/2016 12:56:44 AM

It's my fault. I have trouble separating business with pleasure.

3/24/2016 10:23:07 AM

Anyone using the Citi Double Cash? Thinking about including it in my next chrun.

4/3/2016 1:55:43 PM

i use the citi double cash card. no complaints. seems like a pretty good card for everyday use.

or is this post just an excuse to troll with "churn" again?

4/3/2016 2:15:09 PM

Naw I just haven't seen any disussion about it, which seems strange if it's a 2% card without having to go thru Fidelity. Are you still limited to college loan/mortgage payments to get 1000points/$1 with Citi or is there another way?

[Edited on April 3, 2016 at 6:22 PM. Reason : No fee right?]

4/3/2016 6:21:02 PM

Why not just go through Fidelity?
Pretty easy to use for flights with 1.33 - 1.6 cent / point return.

4/3/2016 7:14:49 PM

Quote :

"No fee right?"

correct

4/4/2016 7:22:50 AM

My question to you churners is this. How the hell do you do it? Once I had 5 hits on my inquiries the next one I went for = declined. Is this a churn every 2 year kinda deal you do or what? Thanks in advance!

4/13/2016 11:36:17 PM

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/chase-5-24-rule-mile-churners-211932315.html

Looks like Chase is getting a littler more strict on excessive card applications. Which can't blame them. 17 cards in less than 24 months is a bit much.

4/14/2016 9:08:13 AM

Yeah, it's been know for a while now.

Quote :

"My question to you churners is this. How the hell do you do it? Once I had 5 hits on my inquiries the next one I went for = declined. Is this a churn every 2 year kinda deal you do or what? Thanks in advance!"

I apply for 2-5 every 3 months and usually get denied for 2 of them. You'll want to spread out your inquiries on dif credit reports if possible, but as you can see I'm well past 5.

"You now have 9 inquiries on your TransUnion credit report and 20 inquiries on your Equifax credit report."

4/15/2016 5:22:23 PM

Lol the current high visibility project we're working on now at an unnamed bank is how millennials cycle credit cards for points. TransUnion and Equifax are obviously used very heavily by these institutions. It's really easy to identify silent attriters / churners by looking at their credit reports. Haha. Especially if you're not a revolver.

4/15/2016 6:04:02 PM

Costco Amex being replaced by the Costco Citi Visa

When you begin using your new card on June 20, 2016, all purchases you make with your new card will earn Costco Cash Rewards! You will earn:
4% cash back on eligible gas worldwide, including gas at Costco, for the first $7,000 per year and then 1% thereafter
3% cash back on restaurant and eligible travel purchases worldwide
2% cash back on all other purchases from Costco and Costco.com
1% cash back on all other purchases

4/16/2016 9:58:22 PM

man this thread has gone downhill

5/24/2016 9:58:27 PM

Heh, yeah. Still working citi and boa cards though. The citi AA cards are about at the point where I can get them again so I'll add those to my next applications in a few weeks. Chase and amex are pretty much doa for us veterans.

5/25/2016 12:15:14 AM

Quote :

"Chase and amex are pretty much doa for us veterans."

Why?

^^^Nice but still only a cash back card...

5/25/2016 12:19:45 AM

http://www.milevalue.com/issuing-banks-rules-for-approvals-and-new-bonuses/

5/28/2016 6:20:47 PM

nm.

[Edited on June 2, 2016 at 10:53 AM. Reason : .]

6/2/2016 10:50:34 AM

Signed up for the 50k offer last week then got the 70k offer as a mailer a few days later. I think as long as I signed up by March 1st I'm good and will get the 70k points. Going to call Chase just to check.

6/2/2016 10:01:48 PM

Eyeing the delta 60k and another alaska air cc

6/9/2016 9:57:03 PM

Woot approved for 70k United!

6/11/2016 7:43:14 PM

Can someone recommend a reward card for groceries and gas

6/12/2016 11:11:37 AM

Chase Freedom is 5% points with rotating categories (which are usually gas + groceries).

The Amex Gold Rewards card is 3x on airfare then 2x on restaurants, gas, and groceries. Amex points are pretty valuable.

6/12/2016 2:34:38 PM

does the amex gold get you into centurion lounges? i don't have to fly often, but when I do its typically throuth DFW and SFO so that would be a plus. EDIT: no, only platinum cards. $195 fee and they don't even give you access? lame.

I've been using the chase saphire preferred for travel and dining, but i really need something for groceries.

Amex Gold has 50k points but a $195 annual fee after the first year.

Chase freedom has a $150 bonus, but gas and groceries are only half the year. ideally i'd like something all year.

[Edited on June 12, 2016 at 3:11 PM. Reason : .]

6/12/2016 2:54:50 PM