The price per square foot that those buildings sold for has torpedoed further development on that block for 20 years. Now every property owner wants $300/sqft for their rat hole.

11/23/2014 3:20:52 PM

Quote :

"I don't understand the appeal of "preserving" nondescript buildings with zero historical significance. I'm not saying we should bulldoze the Parthenon, but who gives a shit if some 40 year old bowling alley or 75 year old bar gets torn down? [Edited on November 23, 2014 at 3:09 PM. Reason : sdfsdf]"

I think people are upset about the PR potentially going away not because of the historical significance of the building, but because the business itself has been around for 50+ years, has loyal customers, and is an important part of the community. Could it move somewhere else? Sure. This is the third location the PR has inhabited in its long history, and I'm sure there *could* be a fourth. But change is hard for businesses in this area that tend to have thin margins already, and lots of people like it just fine, just where it is, better than anything else that might go there, especially something they'll never use like a hotel.

As to the bowling alley--cool to have an intact vintage bowling alley in the area. The building itself? Kind of ugly. But what's inside is worth keeping.

11/23/2014 7:55:39 PM

SAVE SHANGHAI EXPRESS

11/23/2014 7:56:43 PM

I lived in Raleigh and the Raleigh area for 16 years, I don't think I ever once set foot in the players retreat. I don't know of anyone for whom it was a regular destination. I'm sure it had loyal clientele, but having a long history of existence doesn't mean we shouldn't tear down a shitty building if the property owner is ok with it and gets fair market value.

Isn't that right next to what used to be an Applebee's around 2000? Sacred ground man, I'm telling you.

Quote :

"The price per square foot that those buildings sold for has torpedoed further development on that block for 20 years. Now every property owner wants $300/sqft for their rat hole."

It's extremely valuable real estate, the owners know it, the city knows it, and developers know it. I wouldn't be in any huge hurry to sell if I were them either. You've got thousands of people with disposable income regularly walking around the area every day. If parking wasn't such a clusterfuck it would be even more desirable to own.

[Edited on November 23, 2014 at 10:12 PM. Reason : sdfsdf]

11/23/2014 10:09:58 PM

Quote :

"I think people are upset about the PR potentially going away not because of the historical significance of the building"

THIS!!!!!!!!! I have the original NC Stateopoly board. Two Guys, Brothers, Mitch's, and PR are all squares on the board. Every campus has at least one famous bar or restaurant that has been there for multiple generations. It's the place that Grandma, Mom, current student, and current student's future child all have eaten at, or will eat at when they go to school at College X. At NC State those traditional bars are Mitch's PR, and Amedeo's. It will be a very sad day if/when those places close too.

11/23/2014 11:10:07 PM

Yeah, but all of those places fucking sucked.

11/23/2014 11:19:43 PM

^No they didn't. Two Guy's and Brothers were good. PR, Amedeo's, and Mitch's are still awesome!



[Edited on November 23, 2014 at 11:37 PM. Reason : .]

11/23/2014 11:35:19 PM

Quote :

"Isn't that right next to what used to be an Applebee's around 2000? Sacred ground man, I'm telling you."

no.

to be sure you remember Darryl's.

11/23/2014 11:39:17 PM

Ahhh, yes, that's right.

Of those places you mentioned, the only one that wasn't awful was Mitch's. They had good chili. Other than that it had nothing going for it.

11/23/2014 11:43:03 PM

other than having the best bang-for-your-buck menu in Raleigh and being a university staple, yeah, not much going for it

so of that list, you have never set foot in one, liked the chili in another, and think the other 2 are awful

strong words from someone without much experience in the restaurants

11/23/2014 11:47:17 PM

Nah, I went to 2 guys and brothers, found them both to be pretty disappointing given their "iconic" status. I'm sure you all are sad to see the velvet cloak inn go away, I couldn't care less.

I'm not one for nostalgia, especially when you're being nostalgic over something that is completely mediocre.

11/23/2014 11:52:06 PM

Quote :

"It's extremely valuable real estate, the owners know it, the city knows it, and developers know it. I wouldn't be in any huge hurry to sell if I were them either. You've got thousands of people with disposable income regularly walking around the area every day."

How is it extremely valuable when bar/restaurant tenants rotate in and out every 6-18 months? Disposable income goes to Cameron Village, 20 year olds without cars go to Hillsborough Street between classes.

11/23/2014 11:58:18 PM

double post

[Edited on November 24, 2014 at 12:13 AM. Reason : sfdsdf]

11/24/2014 12:12:02 AM

Location and potential. If developed correctly you could make a shitload owning land and a building there. As a business it's worthwhile to pay a high leasing cost because not a lot of spaces can give you 30,000 potential customers within a mile of you every day.

Most bars and restaurants fold within the first year, the ones on Hillsborough St. aren't immune to this. And I know college students are notoriously broke, but the still manage to spend money on coffee, booze, pizza, and the like that's why you see those types of businesses in those locations and occasionally one sticks around for a while.

11/24/2014 12:13:30 AM

Quote :

"If developed correctly you could make a shitload owning land and a building there."

Yet no one has made a shitload of money there. The majority of landlords are happy making $1200/month sitting on the 60 year old building that their grandparents left them.

Quote :

"As a business it's worthwhile to pay a high leasing cost because not a lot of spaces can give you 30,000 potential customers within a mile of you every day."

Yet the vast majority of businesses pay next to nothing and fold.

11/24/2014 12:31:11 AM

Talked to a family member who's friendly with PR's owner. Said she hadn't heard anything about them leaving.

11/24/2014 3:36:49 PM

Quote :

"Isn't that right next to what used to be an Applebee's around 2000? Sacred ground man, I'm telling you."

No, it was Darryl's. I used to go there in high school because they never checked IDs.

11/24/2014 4:57:28 PM

What was it originally? Wake.gov says built in 1904.

11/24/2014 7:06:12 PM

I don't know what rent might be or anything, but I'm really surprised no sort of bar has moved into the old Hillsborough St. Textbooks place - especially now with PB's & the Keg closed up. Pretty big on the inside, right in the middle of the street, you can put some specials up on Wed/Thurs nights on the board up top, etc.

11/24/2014 7:32:39 PM

still holding out hope that McDonald's comes back there

11/24/2014 8:18:52 PM

i'd rather the risque movie place come back

11/24/2014 9:07:55 PM

Quote :

"Of those places you mentioned, the only one that wasn't awful was Mitch's. They had good chili. Other than that it had nothing going for it."

Mitch's actually has a good menu. I love the Cuban sandwich and the London Broil sandwich. Amedeo's and PR are pretty good too.

11/24/2014 11:51:57 PM

Quote :

"I don't know what rent might be or anything, but I'm really surprised no sort of bar has moved into the old Hillsborough St. Textbooks place - especially now with PB's & the Keg closed up. Pretty big on the inside, right in the middle of the street, you can put some specials up on Wed/Thurs nights on the board up top, etc."

That likely entails a change of use, which would likely require sprinklers, additional bathrooms, and throws out other items that are currently grandfathered in. The same group owns that entire strip, minus Mitch's but including the new deli. They're not going to make any substantial improvements unless the Cheesecake Factory signs a 20 year lease on that spot.

11/25/2014 12:13:22 AM

Quote :

"What was it originally? Wake.gov says built in 1904."

That building has been a ton of things over the years. Miscellaneous commercial/dining/bars I'm sure. There is a photo floating around from the teens or 20's that shows a Piggly Wiggly in the Darryl's spot if I'm not mistaken.

Darryl's was there from the mid 70's until the early 00's I think. At nearly 30 years I wonder if they might be the longest tenured tenant. They were good back in the day (there used to be 15-20 locations at their peak) but they started downhill at the end. Good when I was a freshman in '98, ok but in decline when I graduated in '02, crap by the time they finally closed in '04 or so. The Hillsborough Street location was the original, but one of the last to close--there were still two as of several years ago but I think they finally closed or rebranded as well.

11/25/2014 7:55:31 AM

I remember a video where Bill Friday was standing outside of that building talking about how there used to be stairs that went down on the Hillsborough side into a barber shop in the 30s-40s. Never seen a photo tho.

11/25/2014 8:14:32 AM

Quote :

" The Hillsborough Street location was the original, but one of the last to close--there were still two as of several years ago but I think they finally closed or rebranded as well."

There's still one (well, the only one) in Greensboro on High Point Rd

11/25/2014 8:49:20 AM

That one's new and was opened by a fan of the original.

11/26/2014 9:31:52 AM

Wasn't the Darryl's on Hillsborough opened by Thad Eure?

I used to go to the Darryl's on Glenwood Ave a lot.

11/27/2014 9:55:23 PM

Quote :

"That one's new and was opened by a fan of the original."

So it's a Darryl's again now? I used to go there with my family in the 80's and 90's. One of the old-school ones with some delightfully weird seating (one of the second floor balcony seats was a ferris wheel car.) It soldiered on well after the others had all closed, but by maybe 2009 or 2010 it had changed into "Darryl's Wood-Fired Grill" and then I think either closed up or changed the name completely.

Very odd building though, built to look like some sort of late 1800's saloon from the outside, so its alternate uses might be limited. Probably why most of the other ones have been torn down, they're kind of hard to repurpose.

11/29/2014 6:57:59 PM

Jade Garden is now closed apparently

12/15/2014 9:24:54 AM

RE Jade Garden, I wonder what is going on. Is Cycle Logic still open? I would not be surprised if Jim Zanoni/FMW who owns almost that entire block and recently built the apartment complex behind it has designs on the property.

12/15/2014 4:25:48 PM

It'd probably be a good thing for Jade Garden and whatever shares that 2-story piece to come down. Hoping they don't touch that 1920's apartment building though. It's even mixed use!

12/16/2014 7:36:05 PM

Drove past today. Jade Garden was indeed closed, but all of the upstairs windows in the building had been removed. I'd assume that this is part of a remodel/repositioning as no one would mess with them prior to tearing it down.

12/16/2014 7:48:25 PM

Jade Garden is only temporarily closed for a remodel.

12/22/2014 3:48:50 PM

RALEIGH RESIDENTS FIGHT HIGH-RISE DEVELOPMENT
http://abc11.com/503412/

Quote :

"More than 150 people dressed in red t-shirts filled city council chambers beyond capacity to express concern over a new proposed high-rise near their historic inner-beltline neighborhood. People who live in University Park say they want to protect and preserve their homes from the Meredith Heights project. Meredith Heights is a three to four-story dormitory-style building with 150 units with parking and space for offices and retail that would sit on a two acre parcel in the 3400 block of Hillsborough Street. "Our neighbor has been around since 1920," said 35-year resident Shera Hube. "It's a very family oriented neighborhood and has a good variety of people who live in it of all ages." Developer Cedar Forks' request for the city to rezone the land for the project comes about three months after the city's planning committee unanimously approved the proposal. Longtime residents, families and even kids in the audience expressed concern over the chaos the project would create. "There will be lots more traffic up and down Hillsborough Street -- my road -- and it's going to be very noisy for the next 18 months I think," said resident Bronte Delmonico, who is 12. At the end of the 45 minute public hearing, the city council members sympathized with neighbors and decided to postpone their vote on rezoning until the Feb. 17 meeting. "I think this case demonstrates that we need to look very carefully at what the implications are of what we're building in our city," Wayne Maiorano, who represents District A, told the audience. "The council looked at it from our eyes and from the passion that we have and they understood that maybe this development as it is today is not compatible with our neighborhood," said resident Michael Ball."

the people in this neighborhood are the fucking worst. they are who killed Hillsborough street and have consistently opposed every effort to revitalize the area. don't buy property beside a huge university and then get mad that it's not a quiet neighborhood, that's retarded.

it's in everyone's interest to have housing near state and meredith, there is no reason that students should live in apartment complexes 20 minutes away and have to commute and contribute to traffic each morning to take classes. rents are high, vacancies are low, there is a strong market for rental housing.

also

THREE

STORY

HIGH-RISE

[Edited on February 4, 2015 at 10:43 AM. Reason : 3]

2/4/2015 10:42:30 AM

Quote :

""There will be lots more traffic up and down Hillsborough Street -- my road -- and it's going to be very noisy for the next 18 months I think," said resident Bronte Delmonico, who is 12."

You're already doomed, Bronte. Go ahead and get that barbed wire tattoo because they only get more expensive as you get bigger.

Also city council approved phase II of the Hillsborough Street improvements last night.

2/4/2015 10:50:25 AM

> moves to Hillsborough St

> complains about noise

2/4/2015 11:17:30 AM

I believe the neighborhood is asking for a reduction in the units from 150 to 120, a reduction in height from a 4-5 story building to 3-4 stories, and a guarantee that retail space will be included. The first two conditions I don't necessarily agree with but they don't seem too ridiculous. The third condition is awesome.

The "three story high rise" is sensationalism added by ABC11. The neighborhood seems to be pretty civil and reasonable.

2/4/2015 3:16:10 PM

It seems parking is the main issue

Quote :

"Actually, the report has an error - it's a 5-story building and the developer has said they are targeting students for tenants, using four-bedroom layouts for many of the units. I'd call this a mid-rise. More importantly, five stories means even more residents and cars. Since the zoning code only requires one parking space per unit that is what the developer will provide. NCSU data says 80% of students have cars (building will have 300 students x .80 = 240 cars; 150 spaces built = 90 cars short). So the neighbors will have at least another 90 cars circling the narrow streets and parking in front of houses in competition with the homeowner's cars. We don't expect that these students will be misanthropists with no friends that want to visit the planned pool for the building. All visitors will also be driving the neighborhood looking for parking. The developer is essentially taking 'free' parking from the neighborhood; we are supplementing their net profit. When the Oberlin Road mid-rises were built the developer had to accommodate more cars per unit, plus spaces for visitors. We know we live in town, and we know that no matter what - there are going to be more cars as the triangle grows. We know that we want more services, retail, and housing along this end of Hillsborough Street (it really needs some help). But the developer's representation will only make changes if the neighborhood continues to make our case in a polite, rational, respectful way."

[Edited on February 4, 2015 at 3:35 PM. Reason : http://myupha.com/local-dev-projects/meredith-heights-z-35-13/]

2/4/2015 3:34:39 PM

parking is why they are opposed to literally every project and every improvement on Hillsborough st

2/4/2015 3:45:18 PM

To their point, don't make a big apartment complex without enough places to park and expect people to be ok with it. In this case, the developer thought residents wouldn't notice this part of the application.

I live in University Park and have no problem with noise or any construction as long as it cleans shithole Hillsborough Street up and actually gives people places to park. All of you butt hurt about tearing down a pizza place or bar need to accept that it will look much better and actually be a destination for once.

[Edited on February 5, 2015 at 6:50 AM. Reason : ]

2/5/2015 6:44:31 AM

quasi-related

according to plans, the giant hole at the Avent Ferry shopping center where that patchwork AAA used to be is going to be a Walgreen's

2/5/2015 3:40:56 PM

Quote :

"quasi-related according to plans, the giant hole at the Avent Ferry shopping center where that patchwork AAA used to be is going to be a Walgreen's"

I was wondering what was going on there. They were doing some serious excavation work there when I drove by there two weeks ago.

2/7/2015 11:29:50 AM

Two things:

1) What is that new building across from state of beer and beside the clarion?
Looks cool.

2) Blount street parking deck will no longer be free parking
https://twitter.com/NewRaleigh/status/578895901906862080/photo/1

Not sure how I feel about this. On one side, I imagine the SkyHouse is paying the city, meaning more revenue there. That people will uber or cab it more, meaning more money into the economy and fewer drunks on the road.

I don't like that city planning is permitting appropriation of parking decks, rather than having these developer builds incorporating planning in a unique way. Seems like a poor precedent to me.

3/20/2015 9:51:01 AM

Taverna Agora

3/20/2015 10:29:56 AM

^^ It's not a new precedent. I want to say it's the RedHat building that leases parking like that.

3/20/2015 10:50:01 AM

^^^ this was the parking agreement from the start

there are still parking spots available, just not as many

[Edited on March 20, 2015 at 10:59 AM. Reason : .]

3/20/2015 10:59:40 AM

in that deck? doesn't sound like it
"*Shared public/private parking facility. Public parking is restricted to 7 am-7 pm, Monday to Friday only. "
http://www.godowntownraleigh.com/go/blount-street-deck

3/20/2015 4:28:59 PM

Quote :

"2) Blount street parking deck will no longer be free parking "

I don't know if I know anyone who parks in that deck regularly

the deck a few blocks down is still the primary deck for all of the downtown regulars I know

[Edited on March 20, 2015 at 6:17 PM. Reason : and will continue to be free]

3/20/2015 6:16:31 PM

^^ literally just parked there, not all the levels have that notice. I went up a few levels and plenty of the spots were public parking.

[Edited on March 20, 2015 at 9:29 PM. Reason : U]

3/20/2015 9:29:31 PM