"Trump is a much better president for your demographic. The numbers don't lie."

Than who? Hillary? When was she ever president for comparison?

"The numbers don't lie, I just like to make shit up" - horosho

LOL!

10/28/2019 7:38:14 AM

Quote :

" while I voted for Stein and that makes me a Trump supporter?"

He’s soooooo close to getting it!

10/28/2019 8:04:53 AM

Wait wait is he posting his opinions in the Dem primary thread though. Earl should create an "independent candidate primary" thread or some shit. Let him and Duke argue it out

10/28/2019 9:21:40 AM

FYI, I'm fully voting Bernie in the rigged primary. He's essentially running on the Stein 2012 platform.


^^Your logic doesn't hold up. I'm sure you never thought about this but if we applied your logic to a Trump voter, they wouldn't be a Trump supporter.

IF

1.Hillary voters are not Hillary supporters

THEN

2.Trump voters are not Trump supporters

BUT

3.Stein voters are definitely Trump supporters

You've already said 1 and 3 and I know you probably don't agree with #2 but thats because of your inability to put yourself in someone else's shoes. That would allow you to see that voting for someone who you don't support is wrong and always leads to a president like Trump. Most of his voters were doing the exact same thing as you and you STILL refuse to call out Hillary for her bullshit. Its funny you will admit that you didn't support Hillary but won't admit that she was an awful candidate.

Quote :

""Trump is a much better president for your demographic. The numbers don't lie." Than who? Hillary? When was she ever president for comparison? "The numbers don't lie, I just like to make shit up" - horosho LOL!"

I'm mainly referring to the tax cuts. There is no way the taxes on the wealthy or gains in portfolios would be anywhere near it is now with Hillary. "The numbers" are the types of numbers moodys used to predict a Trump landslide in 2020. The prevailing electorate belongs to Trump and I feel like Bernie is the only one with enough energy to change the electorate.

10/28/2019 9:46:14 PM

But you're not voting dem if he doesnt get the nomination, you want Trump to win instead because you're a cowardly peice of shit

10/28/2019 9:53:34 PM

Quote :

"I'm mainly referring to the tax cuts. There is no way the taxes on the wealthy or gains in portfolios would be anywhere near it is now with Hillary. "

Oh, so you're not talking about moron's demographic after all; you're talking about the wealthy. And there's a hell of a lot more to being a "better president for your demographic" than just tax cuts.

Quote :

""The numbers" are the types of numbers moodys used to predict a Trump landslide in 2020."

And I don't buy that bullshit from them, either.

10/28/2019 9:58:14 PM

Moron just self-identified as "upper middle class" Whatever that means, I'm sure he got a tax cut. Unless he's a farmer selling soybeans, its a safe bet that Trump has benefited him financially.
https://www.thebalance.com/trump-s-tax-plan-how-it-affects-you-4113968
We all know the super wealthy got huge breaks but take a look at the tax cuts on income.

Quote :

" The Pocketbook model focuses on three major variables: gas prices, home prices and real personal income."

These are the numbers I was speaking of.

Quote :

"But you're not voting dem if he doesnt get the nomination, you want Trump to win instead because you're a cowardly peice of shit"

Well I never said any of those things. Thats just you and NYM making stuff up because you are still mad Hillary lost. You only have about seven repetitions of it to go before you make it true though so keep it up.






[Edited on October 29, 2019 at 3:58 AM. Reason : yeet hillary]

10/29/2019 3:53:27 AM

Other than when you said you wouldn't vote for Warren if she was nominated and when you didnt vote for Clinton because you're dumb

10/29/2019 5:57:57 AM

Being mad that she lost is solely a manifestation of the fact that a grifting conman who is not even in the same stratosphere as a shitty centrist like Clinton on inequality, climate change, gun control, women’s rights, voting rights, etc, etc

How you can not understand that in a binary choice between A and B, when A is just ok at best and B is the Black Plague, yeah, we’d be mad B won.

If you think by Trump winning it will usher in some golden age of progressive rule once the “neoliberals” get purged you’re dreaming. It just doesn’t happen like that.

The problem with Earl isn’t that his values are wrong. I still think we largely agree on climate change, inequality, etc.. I just don’t see how wasting 4 or God forbid 8 years actually regressing on all these important issues is a net benefit. And I don’t give a fuck if I get a pittance of a tax cut because of him.

[Edited on October 29, 2019 at 7:47 AM. Reason : X]

10/29/2019 7:44:51 AM

^^^

'And there's a hell of a lot more to being a "better president for your demographic" than just tax cuts.'

10/29/2019 7:59:38 AM

Quote :

" FYI, I'm fully voting Bernie in the rigged primary. He's essentially running on the Stein 2012 platform."

ICYMI, this is a pretty great self-pwnt by Earl. I’m pretty sure nobody except him missed it tho

10/29/2019 8:33:02 AM

Quote :

"I was considering voting for Warren in the general but this video talked me out of it."

-horosho on not voting for warren if she got the nomination

Quote :

"Well I never said any of those things. "

-horosho now

^previously he had posted about how drawing names out of a hat for the debates must have been rigged

[Edited on October 29, 2019 at 8:44 AM. Reason : .]

10/29/2019 8:43:20 AM

Only the three old folks have been qualified for the debate in December. It's getting tough now.

10/29/2019 10:49:01 AM

Buttigieg and Harris will almost certainly qualify for the December debate (3 of the 4 eligible polls to date counted for them). Yang, Beto and Klobuchar gonna have to make some moves to qualify by the time the qualifying period ends on December 12. Steyer has 1 qualifying poll for December, as the near $50M he spent on ads last quarter has been pretty effective at getting him some 3-5% in early states.

[Edited on October 29, 2019 at 11:49 AM. Reason : .]

10/29/2019 11:48:19 AM

Sanders #2 in morning consult poll
https://morningconsult.com/2020-democratic-primary-2/

The second choices breakdown shows a pretty even split for supporters of the top 3 candidates having the 2 other candidates as their next choices, it really goes against the claim that Biden supporters or centrists wouldn't get behind sanders or warren in the general

Sanders has the highest favorability, but the total favorable + no opinion is close among the top 3 candidates

10/29/2019 12:09:51 PM

well if you like that poll, you'll like today's CNN poll with Sanders leading at 21%

https://twitter.com/ZachMontellaro/status/1189213200270671875

Buttigieg with 10% is now qualified for December. Klobuchar, Tulsi and Yang each pick up a qualifying poll with 5% each in this poll

10/29/2019 12:20:50 PM

Tulsi and Beto are not even qualified for November yet.

10/29/2019 12:59:31 PM

Quote :

"you didnt vote for Clinton because you're dumb"

This is what I'm talking about. Anybody who doesn't vote for your candidate is dumb because there couldn't possibly be another rational way to see things other than the view you happen to have.

Quote :

"Being mad that she lost is solely a manifestation of the fact that a grifting conman who is not even in the same stratosphere as a shitty centrist like Clinton on inequality, climate change, gun control, women’s rights, voting rights, etc, etc"

You should be more angry at your party for nominating a candidate who could lose to Trump and doing it through a really shady process, but you aren't angry at them at all. If you angry was distributed around more fairly, I'd have a little more respect for it. Instead you are doubling down thinking you can just shame the left into voting for whatever you roll out through coercion and fear tactics. It won't work.

Quote :

"How you can not understand that in a binary choice between A and B, when A is just ok at best and B is the Black Plague, yeah, we’d be mad B won."

Its not a binary choice though, and its not done in isolation. You need to understand that this choice affects so many other things including future choices. If Romney won in 2012, I'm nearly certain Trump would have never ran again. We would already be in the center you are dying to return to today.

The point is that the choices you have made in the past have allowed everything to shift further and further right. Leftists have to put our foot down somewhere or the democratic candidate will eventually be as far right as Trump and you guys will be voting for him because the republican candidate will be much further right.

You don't have to agree with this or adopt it but when you diagnose it as liking Trump, being Russian, or being stupid, you really just erode your own agenda.
[quoteIf you think by Trump winning it will usher in some golden age of progressive rule once the “neoliberals” get purged you’re dreaming. It just doesn’t happen like that.[/quote]
It already has. Ideas that were solely green in 2012 were picked up by Bernie in 2016, and are now leaking into the mainstream of the democratic party. Ideas like the green new deal, medicare for all, UBI, abolish ice, are actually gaining traction. The justice democrats are essentially democrats in congress with our values. I don't know if we would have people like AOC, Omar, and Talib without Trump winning. In my lifetime, progressive values have never been this strong.

Quote :

"The problem with Earl isn’t that his values are wrong. I still think we largely agree on climate change, inequality, etc.. I just don’t see how wasting 4 or God forbid 8 years actually regressing on all these important issues is a net benefit. And I don’t give a fuck if I get a pittance of a tax cut because of him."

We're at the Cincinnati airport and have a meeting in LA Tomorrow but half of the party thinks planes are dangerous. I'm not going to hit the road with you and try to make the drive towards LA if I know it can't get me there in time. You're definitely going to get closer to LA while I wait, but I'm not getting in a car period. I'm holding out on the slim chance that they put me on a flight and I actually make the meeting on time even if it means wasting 4 or 8 hours.

Quote :

"'And there's a hell of a lot more to being a "better president for your demographic" than just tax cuts.'"

Tell me how, as a member of the upper middle class, Trump has not been a good president for you. The point was that personal well being (or perception of) is what drives most republican voters.

Quote :

"-horosho now ^previously he had posted about how drawing names out of a hat for the debates must have been rigged"

Of course it was rigged. If you have 20 names that need to be put in a specific order to be fair, and you decide to "draw them out of a hat", then that is already rigging. You don't need to rig the order they come out because leaving something so specific up to chance is already rigging. There was no way the top 5 candidates were going to end up on the same stage. The entire point is to not allow voters enough time to see the contrast. If they don't see the contrast, then they are much more likely to accept the "blue no matter who" dogma. Its not a coincidence that we've broken all of the records for people on a debate stage this time around.

Quote :

""I was considering voting for Warren in the general but this video talked me out of it." -horosho on not voting for warren if she got the nomination"

Yep that can still change again if she clarifies her positions. It seems like she's wavering setting up to dial it back in the general but if she doesn't dial anything back, I'd probably vote for her. Just because I wouldn't vote for every single dem doesn't mean I won't vote for a dem unless its Bernie. I just have actual standards that go beyond having a D next to your name. Standards that have been eroded by generations of lesser evil voting. Heres how I stand (today) on democratic candidates.

Would vote for
Bernie-100%
Yang-100%

On the fence
Warren
Tulsi
Booker

Room to work
Harris

NEVER EVER (Hillary was here)
Biden
Klobuchar
Mayor Pete

And you know, maybe if the process wasn't rigged, and we were having two-4 person debates with an undercard debate, there would be a lot more dialogue to unpack and hear specifics. Right now, its like a lot of these candidates don't want to commit too far left so they can pivot right in the general.

[Edited on October 29, 2019 at 2:57 PM. Reason : if romney won]

10/29/2019 2:56:14 PM

^Trump supporter

10/29/2019 3:21:32 PM

why would pete be in 'never ever' lol

10/29/2019 5:13:14 PM

I hate to support Earl but Pete is one of the worst Dem primary candidates. Call him young Biden.

10/29/2019 5:19:31 PM

He's peak do whatever the lobbyists say establishment candidate and his problems with black support is real and warranted

[Edited on October 29, 2019 at 6:31 PM. Reason : .]

10/29/2019 6:31:19 PM

I mean I agree with both of y'all (Pete sucks) but at the end of the day if it's between DTJ and Pete I'm voting for Pete.

Like how is voting for an establishment candidate backed by lobbyists just as repugnant as allowing DTJ to sit for a second term?

Unless I am reading too much into ^, ^^, in which case, my bad.

10/30/2019 8:28:43 AM

No, yea, pretty much any Dem over DJ. But prob Pete, biden, and tulsi would be the worst cases IMO.

10/30/2019 8:54:06 AM

yeah sorry i didn't mean to endorse the "never ever", if he got the nomination still vote for him in the general

10/30/2019 8:55:11 AM

Pete and Tulsi are like Biden's kids.

10/30/2019 10:52:15 AM

wat

10/30/2019 11:10:58 AM

In term of age. Also the maturity of political life.

10/30/2019 11:32:03 AM

Quote :

"Like how is voting for an establishment candidate backed by lobbyists just as repugnant as allowing DTJ to sit for a second term?"

Because of what happens next. If liberals continue to signal to the DNC that they don't care how far right it moves, as long as it is somehwere to the left of the GOP, they will continue to move right. Its basic game theory according to the Hotelling model of spatial competition.

If you imagine the beach as the political spectrum, we are on the right side of the beach. The republicans pull their cart right and liberal voters allow the democrats to push their cart right by saying (I'll always go to the cart that is the furthest left, no matter how far away it is. Saying you will vote for any democrat is literally telling them to nominate the rightmost candidate

After 4 years of your right leaning democrat in office, that is now the new party normal. The fact that being Donald Trump (and not policy) is the only thing holding the party back will allow the republicans to move even further right with a more polished candidate in 2024. Of course, with the loss of the number one appeal (not being donald trump) now being lost by the democratic party, they will be forced to move EVEN FURTHER right to obtain the same amount of conservative votes.

And of course, most of the people on the left side of the beach give up and stop eating ice cream all together or have forgotten what eating ice cream is like.

I didn't even mention how the republicans will call the right leaning democrat a "socialist" and use it as an excuse to move even further right by blaming all of the results of failed economic structure on the president..and thus "what happens when you elect a democrat". This already happened with Obama and Trump. I'm really upset that its going to have to happen all over again for you guys to begin to see the pattern.

If more people did what I do, and drew a line in the sand, saying they would not vote for any candidate (right of this point), you would have a setup more like this where the republicans would have to worry about moving too far to the right.

[Edited on October 30, 2019 at 1:57 PM. Reason : and it will happen. they are good at research]

[Edited on October 30, 2019 at 2:00 PM. Reason : the difference is that hotelling has everyone eating icecream. in politics people just wont vote ]

10/30/2019 1:50:51 PM

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2019/10/30/poll-biden-slips-warren-rises-sanders-buttigieg-top-tier/4096461002/

Biden 26%
Warren 17%
Sanders 13%
Buttigieg 10%
Gabbard 4%
Yang 3%
Harris 3%

Tulsi gets another November/December qualifying poll

[Edited on October 30, 2019 at 3:31 PM. Reason : .]

10/30/2019 3:30:59 PM

Pete
https://newrepublic.com/amp/article/155533/pete-buttigieg-still-fighting-last-war

10/30/2019 5:07:26 PM

wow, pete is double digits?

10/31/2019 10:47:38 AM

Here's the current RCP poll average:

Biden 26.7
Warren 21.3
Sanders 16.8
Buttigieg 7.7
Harris 4.7
Yang 2.7
Gabbard 2.0
O'Rourke 2.0
Klobuchar 1.8
Booker 1.7
Steyer 1.0
Castro 0.7
Bennet 0.5
Williamson 0.3
Delaney 0.2
Bullock 0.0

10/31/2019 11:36:49 AM

Not sure if it was posted but Bernie had his best poll in months in NH. He seems to have gained some of Warrens vote share in recent weeks.

Also, lol at the breakdowns of Tusli voters. Almost exclusively people who also “want GOP control of Congress.”

10/31/2019 12:03:55 PM

Bernie's definitely had a good post-heart attack bump.
Buttigieg has had a little surge too
Surprised to see Warren's had a 6 point drop in national polling average over the last 3 weeks.

Kamala is really struggling. Poll numbers keep on dropping, sounds like she's running out of money

https://www.politico.com/news/2019/10/30/kamala-harris-campaign-layoffs-061112

[Edited on October 31, 2019 at 1:24 PM. Reason : .]

10/31/2019 1:22:26 PM

warren is falling because sanders has taken steps to differentiate himself and also because of her vague answers on how to pay for m4a

__________________________

Biden in 4th in Iowa poll, Warren 1st, Sanders 2nd, Buttigieg 3rd
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/01/us/politics/iowa-poll-warren-biden.html

In the Iowa poll when asked "Which of the two types of Democrats would you be likely to support? A Democrat who..." the "Is more moderate than most Democrats" was the lead response at 51% and "Promises to find common ground" got 55% vs the more progressive answer. Despite this Biden came in 4th
(also LOL and Biden getting basically no support from anyone 44 or younger)

Biden is a bad choice

[Edited on November 1, 2019 at 9:01 AM. Reason : Iowa]

11/1/2019 9:00:49 AM

Warren released her how to pay for M4A plan today

Klobuchar gets a December qualifying poll from that NYT Iowa poll

[Edited on November 1, 2019 at 9:26 AM. Reason : .]

11/1/2019 9:25:10 AM

that tweet link is wrong

^ so from a quick look warren's plan doesn't look different from sanders options, why did she wait so long for this?

[Edited on November 1, 2019 at 9:27 AM. Reason : .]

11/1/2019 9:25:42 AM

Because anyone with a 4th grade level understanding of math can see that her plan (and Bernie's) would pay for one year of M4A, at best. The rest will be paid by everyone else, especially the middle class.

11/1/2019 11:23:45 AM

lol, like you've read their plans

i am curious though who you think pays for things now

11/1/2019 11:30:42 AM

the expert economics guy doesn't understand how we will transition health insurance premiums to medicare taxes

11/1/2019 11:56:09 AM

i am curious though who you think pays for things now

11/1/2019 1:35:13 PM

You are right that Warren’s plan is inferior to Bernie’s. She’s making a political ploy by trying to avoid taxing the working class, but the result is pretty disastrous:

https://twitter.com/mattbinder/status/1190280997289578496?s=21

Also of note is that her plan has a 10 year phase in. Plenty of time for the GOP and healthcare industry to derail.

As far as Bernie's plan, you really can't fairly argue that it's too expensive. It just shifts the payment method from premiums to taxes, and saves us tons of money by reducing administrative costs and eliminating profit motive.

[Edited on November 1, 2019 at 1:42 PM. Reason : .]

11/1/2019 1:39:13 PM

i am curious

11/1/2019 1:47:35 PM

Quote :

"Taxes in general?"

h e a l t h c a r e

11/1/2019 2:23:08 PM

So you agree that both their plans simply shift the cost of healthcare to the rich and middle class, rather than actually dealing with the actual issue of the cost of health care.

Quote :

"https://twitter.com/mattbinder/status/1190280997289578496?s=21"

LOL, I love how even people on the left are no longer falling for her "plan for everything" slogan.

[Edited on November 1, 2019 at 2:44 PM. Reason : 1]

11/1/2019 2:36:05 PM

Quote :

"^ so from a quick look warren's plan doesn't look different from sanders options, why did she wait so long for this? "

getting to look at it more, it's... different, particularly in regards to the employer taxes

who is her business plan designed to appeal to vs sanders' plan

^
no
also, how do you think it's paid for now?

[Edited on November 1, 2019 at 2:51 PM. Reason : .]

11/1/2019 2:50:32 PM

Not sure if you are being serious, but in general, it's paid thru an individual's insurance plan. Here is a cartoon video for you that explains how insurance works.

https://youtu.be/DBTmNm8D-84

11/1/2019 3:11:14 PM

who pays for that insurance plan?

[Edited on November 1, 2019 at 3:20 PM. Reason : insurance plans are free gifts that fairies give to every person!]

11/1/2019 3:19:34 PM

Did the cartoon video not keep your attention long enough to answer the basic questions of how our insurance system work? Or is this your weird way of trying to prove some point?

11/1/2019 4:10:19 PM