i cannot figure out why the math doesn't add up for conservatives

right now we pay premiums for insurance

we will instead pay taxes for care

the taxes will be lower than the premiums because single payer is less expensive

11/1/2019 4:36:42 PM

Beto is out

11/1/2019 5:36:54 PM

11/1/2019 6:24:01 PM

^ that was good. don't let the word "moderate" in the title scare the rest of y'all extremists

11/1/2019 7:55:46 PM

why are some people being so intentionally obtuse?

don't they know how healthcare works in canada, uk, and most of europe?

about time america stopped being cruel to its people and started mimicking any of the mentioned countries.

11/2/2019 1:53:16 AM

HCH apparently thinks that currently healthcare is free, so I think they're just dumb

11/2/2019 10:02:27 AM

Quote :

"why are some people being so intentionally obtuse? don't they know how healthcare works in canada, uk, and most of europe?"

Some of them do. They also know that many of those countries pay much higher taxes than we do, and some people would rather do anything than pay more taxes, including paying private insurance companies. The thought process being that if you don't pay taxes, you go to jail, and if you don't let them take you to jail, they shoot you; the worst an insurance company can do is not cover you, and then maybe you won't get sick, or if you do, you can always weasel out of it through bankruptcy or what have you. It's easy to underestimate how much large numbers of Americans, particularly conservative ones, hold a special hatred for taxes.

Then there are others who understand that it "works" in those countries, but for whatever reason think American healthcare is better. It's easy to latch onto stories of people in the UK having to wait in long queues for treatments that people for here take for granted. Yes, those are anecdotes that fly in the face of the objective fact that the UK gets better health outcomes for less money, but if your question is, "How can some people think that?" well, there you go.

Of course, if you're quite well-off, your healthcare will almost certainly suffer under any system that precludes private health insurance; meanwhile you're expected to foot the bill for a bunch of poor people. It's easy to lose sight of the fact that single payer benefits the country as a whole, but it doesn't necessarily benefit every individual, and it's hard for me to fault the losers for not embracing the system.

So those are the people who do get it but don't like it anyway. And then of course there's lots of people who would benefit but are too stupid or ill-informed to realize it, and there's not a lot to be said about them. As long as Fox News shouts louder, more convincing lies than you present your facts, they will not come around.

11/2/2019 11:40:46 AM

I posted this in the Yang thread in chit chat already but figured for some of y'all in here who might take the time to engage in a longer analysis of the subject, I thought this was a balanced analysis and critique of public healthplans in other nations vs Bernie, Warren, et al M4A stances y'all might be interested in




[Edited on November 2, 2019 at 5:32 PM. Reason : and the rest of y'all can just go back to calling each other names]

11/2/2019 5:30:54 PM

NBC/WSJ poll out this morning, Harris now qualified for December debate (joining Biden, Warren, Sanders, Buttigieg) and Klobuchar is now one poll away from qualifying

[Edited on November 3, 2019 at 9:11 AM. Reason : .]

11/3/2019 9:09:39 AM

Quote :

"that was good. don't let the word "moderate" in the title scare the rest of y'all extremists"

It's only moderate because he gives the best and worst of each thing instead of insisting one thing is perfect and everything else is terrible (the latter is unfortunately the way most people discuss issues these days)

11/3/2019 10:06:57 AM

is there a point at which qualifying for a previous debate is a prerequisite for qualifying for another debate?
The reason I ask is I'd hate to see December be 5 to 6 people and then January be 12 again. I know it is unlikely, but it's hard to get growing substance participants yo-yo and also remain in high quantity.

11/4/2019 11:19:38 AM

https://twitter.com/daveweigel/status/1190800217110700032?s=21

11/4/2019 11:41:55 AM

what's the issue?

11/4/2019 12:09:09 PM

you don't see an issue with tying job or college eligibility to participation in a national service program?

11/4/2019 12:14:09 PM

that comment says that?

11/4/2019 12:29:23 PM

He's never said he wants it to be explicitly mandatory, but this comment and others imply he wants it to be a social obligation. And that colleges and jobs should consider service first and foremost on applications.

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/04/15/pete-buttigieg-national-service-program-1277274

Quote :

""We really want to talk about the threat to social cohesion that helps characterize this presidency but also just this era," the mayor of South Bend, Ind., told MSNBC's Rachel Maddow. "One thing we could do that would change that would be to make it, if not legally obligatory, but certainly a social norm that anybody after they're 18 spends a year in national service.""

https://www.cnn.com/2019/07/03/politics/pete-buttigieg-national-service-plan/index.html

Quote :

""Whether it's civilian or military, it's the first question on your college application if you're applying for college or it's the first question when you are being interviewed for a job if you go right into the work force," he said"

11/4/2019 12:39:33 PM

https://twitter.com/eamonjavers/status/1191412741808050176?s=21

lol, what even is going on here?

11/4/2019 12:53:45 PM

Beto's supporters merge into Yang Gang

Quote :

"It's been a tough weekend with the loss of @BetoORourke but after spending yesterday in my basement watch A League of Their Own and Seinfeld reruns, I've made a decision to lend my support to a winner. I will officially be applying for initiation in the @AndrewYang #YangGang"

11/4/2019 3:31:44 PM

Quote :

"is there a point at which qualifying for a previous debate is a prerequisite for qualifying for another debate? The reason I ask is I'd hate to see December be 5 to 6 people and then January be 12 again. I know it is unlikely, but it's hard to get growing substance participants yo-yo and also remain in high quantity."

They keep using the same qualifiers for two debates at a time, and more candidates will have time to get there by the second. Makes no sense to me to add candidates once they've narrowed the field.

11/4/2019 3:34:30 PM

That was true for the first two pairs but the 5th and 6th are unique

11/4/2019 3:56:10 PM

Imagine having SNL make ads for your campaign. Must be nice...

11/4/2019 10:30:29 PM

so not only is Kamala downsizing her operations, looks like Castro is now too. Laying off New Hampshire and South Carolina teams.

Unless Booker has a breakout moment in the November debate, I expect him to be next on the money crunch list. Klobuchar is one poll away from making the December debate, but she's next after Booker in terms of campaign finance health

https://www.politico.com/2020-election/president/democratic-primary/candidates/fundraising-and-campaign-finance-tracker/

11/5/2019 8:08:12 AM

https://www.politico.com/news/2019/11/04/just-nonsense-kamala-harris-calls-narrative-that-black-voters-are-homophobic-a-trope-065759 wish they would stop letting "southern black voters" carry the flag for "black voters".

Clyborn is correct but these people are homophobic because they are Christian conservatives, not because they are black. Black southerners are conservatives who only vote democrat because the republicans are racist down there. Yes, I know there are more black democrats in the South than other parts of the country but pundits act like this is the only significant group. Its not significant at all because the republicans are going to carry all of those States. Those are the primaries that should be at the end and completely neglected.

[Edited on November 5, 2019 at 10:36 AM. Reason : part of the reason why democratic candidates get pulled so far right]

11/5/2019 10:23:44 AM

The entire primary system (Dem and GOP) is absurd. Giving states like Iowa and NH, who come nowhere close to matching the electorate of the United States at large or either party such outsized weight and credence is remnants of a system that no longer works.

538 has done some good stuff on which cities “look like America” the most and the #1 was New Haven. I’d bet there are more minorities in New Haven than all of Iowa and New Hampshire combined (I’m obviously being facetious and exaggerating).

11/6/2019 7:41:06 AM

https://twitter.com/seungminkim/status/1192099955361665024?s=21

Double posting but this would, I think, be huge if she would be on a ticket with either Warren or Sanders. I think it her willingness could put to rest this idea that only Biden could turn out the heart of the Obama coaliton.

11/6/2019 10:35:13 AM

Nothing against her but WHY? I know she lost the governor's race because of cheating but I just don't see how that, and not just identity politics, makes her a good candidate for vice president. How does she "bring back the obama coalition?" which is dead btw...

Quote :

"At Upper Cutz, a bustling barbershop in a green-trimmed wooden house, talk of politics inevitably comes back to one man: Barack Obama. Mr. Obama’s elections infused many here with a feeling of connection to national politics they had never before experienced. But their lives have not gotten appreciably better, and sourness has set “We went to the beach,” said Maanaan Sabir, 38, owner of the Juice Kitchen, a brightly painted shop a few blocks down West North Avenue, using a metaphor to describe the emotion after Mr. Obama’s election. “And then eight years happened.”"

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/21/us/many-in-milwaukee-neighborhood-didnt-vote-and-dont-regret-it.html

I don't know a lot about her but you are making big claims about someone who has only served in the Georgia State house.

11/6/2019 12:45:31 PM

Gillum and Abrams are probably the top 2 people now for VP picks I think.

11/6/2019 12:46:19 PM

Quote :

" How does she "bring back the obama coalition?" which is dead btw..."

Rural and exurban African American turnout, of which only Obama had turned out. She has pull there and is also a tireless voting rights advocate.

11/6/2019 2:23:00 PM

Quote :

"Clyborn is correct but these people are homophobic because they are Christian conservatives, not because they are black. Black southerners are conservatives who only vote democrat because the republicans are racist down there. Yes, I know there are more black democrats in the South than other parts of the country but pundits act like this is the only significant group. Its not significant at all because the republicans are going to carry all of those States. Those are the primaries that should be at the end and completely neglected."

I think it's dumb in general to say any one group of people is an exact way about anything. I will also say that Prop 8 in California was overwhelmingly supported by African Americans, 70% of which voted yes, compared to everyone else, who voted 50/50. African Americans were only 10% of the voting population, so it can't be said it only passed because of them, but that was a significantly higher turnout of African American voters due to the Obama effect (7% of California voters were African American 204, only 6% in 2016)

11/6/2019 2:48:48 PM

Tulsi is now the 10th to qualify for the November 20th debate, joining Biden, Warren, Bernie, Buttigieg, Harris, Klobuchar, Booker, Yang, Steyer. Nobody else likely to qualify.

Klobuchar has also now qualified for the December debate, joining Biden, Warren, Bernie, Buttigieg and Harris. Yang has 1 qualifying poll so far, and Tulsi has 2 qualifying polls but as of the latest official update 7 weeks ago she was still 28k donors short of the 200k requirement (although she's had a bit of a bump in those last 7 weeks so I wouldn't be surprised if she's already hit the 200k just hasn't announced it)

[Edited on November 6, 2019 at 3:49 PM. Reason : .]

11/6/2019 3:47:27 PM

Back on his bullshit

Quote :

"“With Donald Trump out of the way, you’re going to see a number of my Republican colleagues have an epiphany. Mark my words. Mark my words,” Biden said at a DC fundraiser today at the Sidley Austin law firm"

11/6/2019 4:38:50 PM

no, it's true, i mean before trump republicans were so willing to work across the aisle and that's why obama had no problems with anything and hillary was never forced to testify for 11 hours for nonsense

11/6/2019 6:08:35 PM

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/04/upshot/trump-biden-warren-polls.html

With regard to Elizabeth Warren polling significantly worse than both Joe Biden and Bernie Sanders versus Donald Trump in the recent New York Times Upshot and Siena College poll, is the reason most likely that:

a) This is an outlier poll.
b) This is due to underlying misogynistic sentiments.
c) Elizabeth Warren has less name recognition.
d) All of the above.
e) None of the above.

11/7/2019 7:55:41 AM

with the caveat that no poll is perfect, it seems like clear evidence of b

11/7/2019 9:36:46 AM

Warren holding a town hall at Broughton High tonight btw

11/7/2019 11:49:41 AM

^^^Trump +6 in Michigan seems like an outlier. Especially since they're so much higher on Bernie and on the things that matter most in the Rust Belt, she's not far off from him. Pennsylvania and Wisconsin looks more accurate, only a 1 or 2 point difference between Sanders and Warren.

Trump's net approval (according to Morning Consult) is -10 in Michigan, -11 Wisconsin, -8 Pennsylvania. No way is he doing that much better in Michigan than the other two against any one possible challenger.

[Edited on November 7, 2019 at 12:03 PM. Reason : -]

11/7/2019 12:00:30 PM

just because people may not like Trump doesn't mean that they will like [insert politician] here. trust in politicians, and our institutions generally, is at historic lows.

11/7/2019 12:13:06 PM

^Sure but why would the Michigan numbers be so different from Wisconsin and Pennsylvania?

11/7/2019 1:22:59 PM

It couldn't possibly be that some people are turned off by her past. Nope. Definitely the vagina.

11/7/2019 1:23:04 PM

yeah, she doesn't at all fall in a spectrum somewhere between biden and sanders

11/7/2019 1:40:47 PM

Quote :

"Sure but why would the Michigan numbers be so different from Wisconsin and Pennsylvania?"

Why would they be the same?

11/7/2019 3:22:25 PM

fuck clinton, she needs to go the fuck away already
https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/469407-hillary-clinton-warrens-medicare-for-all-plan-would-never-get-enacted

warren endorsed this in 2016

11/7/2019 3:29:37 PM

So did Bernie and basically every other dem

11/7/2019 3:35:26 PM

bernie did in the general, not the primary(obviously), because he is sensible and recognized that trump shouldn't be in office

[Edited on November 7, 2019 at 3:41 PM. Reason : .]

11/7/2019 3:40:54 PM

So did Warren.

I understand knocking her for a NOT endorsing Bernie, but that is different from implying she endorsed Hilary over Bernie. She endorsed after Hilary secured the victory.

11/7/2019 3:43:52 PM

IIRC her endorsement of Clinton was actually more complimentary of Bernie’s policy ideas than Clinton’s.

11/7/2019 3:46:54 PM

https://twitter.com/ewarren/status/1192237965113790466

vs.

https://twitter.com/BernieSanders/status/1192478435693780992

11/7/2019 3:56:43 PM

fuck these fuckin two candidates. No politician will ever win an election in this country with a platform of "let's tax the rich, because they're rich mmmmkay?"

11/7/2019 4:37:04 PM

why not?

11/7/2019 4:45:24 PM

^^ Lucky for you, you can vote for Michael Bloomberg!

11/7/2019 5:43:57 PM