Sweet, I didn't know the Ipod could natively play MKV and xvid!

10/1/2009 3:51:30 PM

^ i wish

^^ yeah that's why i don't own any of the iProducts myself...

10/1/2009 4:48:32 PM

Quote :

"b/c you know, the average consumer is gonna bother doing any of that... face it, the average shlub is a moron, especially when it comes to tech stuff. apple has made a very simple very easy to use device that pleases said moron, thus moron buys it. the % of the market that is dictated by performance and such is so small by comparison it might as well be inconsequential, and face it, that's about all this device is going to appeal to really. technical win fiscal fail"

how is this different then any iProduct? Apart from HD radio and HD video out? The same way you have to convert stuff for a zune you also have to do it for an iProduct. Not sure what you're getting at. The 'morons' that want an iProduct but don't like apple will buy this just like the 'morons' that don't like Microsoft will buy an iProduct.

10/1/2009 6:01:46 PM

i'm not trying to imply that istuff can do that.

more so that 95% of consumers plain don't care about the zune, probably never even heard of it or could recognize the name much less what it does. so it doesn't matter what it can do or what it can't do better or worse than a variety of istuff.

the fights over. it lost years ago

10/4/2009 2:28:53 AM

Quote :

"the fights over. it lost years ago"

Can we get your enlightened status on the war though?

10/4/2009 11:26:48 AM

^^I'm very glad you don't have a clue what you're talking about. Brand awareness != Market share != Profitability != Usability != Functionality.

10/4/2009 5:02:36 PM

Quote :

"Brand awareness != Market share != Profitability != Usability != Functionality."

just face it...the iProducts are the "Microsoft Windows" of the portable media device world. Meaning its going to take a lot more than a zune HD to even put a dent in Apple's market share.

[Edited on October 4, 2009 at 5:13 PM. Reason : .]

10/4/2009 5:13:07 PM

I don't disagree at all. As usual you missed the point.

10/4/2009 5:24:14 PM

touch pro 2 + coreplayer discovered

the zune is amazing, marketplace is AWESOME, software is good, downloading over wifi is perfect, screen rocks, fucking love the device's sexiness but i can't justify the $300 when it can't play videos i want it to natively.

returning it once again...

10/4/2009 8:40:54 PM

Quote :

"touch pro 2 + coreplayer"

is hardly native lol

10/4/2009 9:40:08 PM

what i don't understand is you guys that jump through all sorts of hoops to download illegal video content that comes in off the wall containers and codecs yet you won't put in the extra effort to get it to play on your devices.

If you really are that lazy its really simple to just buy your media content and it will work just fine.

10/4/2009 9:48:06 PM

^^lol fuck you, you know what i meant.... i might rethink it once they support the shitty codecs i download tv in...

^ and i tried, albeit very briefly, to get the transcoding to work without having to reencode and i failed. it boiled down to a money issue for me though.

10/4/2009 10:44:41 PM

Quote :

"what i don't understand is you guys that jump through all sorts of hoops to download illegal video content that comes in off the wall containers and codecs yet you won't put in the extra effort to get it to play on your devices."

Typing the name of the show I want into a search bar and then double clicking the result isn't exactly jumping through hoops.

I'm not really even sure what point any of you are arguing (do you even know?) but the fact that none of the popular devices will natively play divx files is absolutely retarded. That's one more example of something Microsoft could have done to make itself stand out instead of just putting out something that's only an alternative.

10/4/2009 10:46:39 PM

You mean it's something they could have done to undermine the content publishers they have contractual agreements with? It's obvious WHY no tier1 pmp has divx/mkv support and it has absolutely nothing to do with technical feasibility. It's because there is absolutely no business reason to include on a portable device that is already tied to a content provider.

Contrary to the beliefs of this board, the general public doesn't even have a clue what divx or mkv are, much less how to get content in those formats. If you want to play your grey market content, there are hundreds of shitty pmps that will accomodate you, and I don't think apple or Microsoft will care much at all. Companies tend to want customers who pay for their content

10/5/2009 12:03:19 AM

see heres the thing. Im with you on the whole mkv side of things. Its a shitty open source container format and theres no way anyone would try to support it irl. divx, on the other hand, is just mpeg4 and the most common container is microsofts own avi. Windows 7 and the 360 both have their own mpeg4 decoders. Why would microsoft go through the trouble of creating a decoder if they didn't think the average person was going to use it? Divx is probably bar none the most common format in existing libraries.

You're right that they want to get people to buy stuff off the zune marketplace, but I think the group of people with existing divx libraries who would buy a zune and not convert their library would be pretty small. People with existing libraries are either going to convert their files, or not get a zune. This is probably not a huge market, but its people microsoft probably wants hyping the zune for them. These are people who hate itunes and want a solution they can point to that has cool apps and a decent ui like the iphone, but a much much easier way to manage their media. I bet you that divx support is on the list of future features for the firmware.

My personal opinion is that they should open the licensing for wmv so that everyone will stop using garbage (mkv) and ancient (avi) container formats.

10/5/2009 12:40:22 AM

Quote :

"This is probably not a huge market, but its people microsoft probably wants hyping the zune for them"

Exactly. I just don't understand why Microsoft wouldn't want a +1 in every category conceivable. Right now they've got a better looking screen, and HDMI out. Aside from that it's a wash, or a loss in every other category when comparing it to the iphone/ipod touch.

10/5/2009 1:27:56 AM

^its a wash because there's no content yet. The zune pass is a ridiculously better value than the iTunes content model. I have no doubt that serious titles will start rolling out fo the holiday season. The device has to get out and into developers hands to launch the marketplace. The sept release is (ithink) much more for developers and geeks than it is for consumers.

Until yall see games on this thing, i dont think you really will get how powerful a platform it can be for developers.

And there's a big difference between enabling divx on a home platform (xbox) and on a mobile content platform. Like I said before, I think divx support will probably come soon, but you can forget about all the other pirate friendly formats.

As far as the "ms should want us to hype the product", you guys aren't the viral hype engine that companies go after. First adopters are usually the most demanding, whiny, opinionated and impossible to please of any consumer segment. Generally the hype generators come from the first wave of mass adopters: the Tweens, the 30 something technochumps and the social trendsetters.

10/5/2009 5:56:15 AM

I am all for a subscription based marketplace. I would give anything to have iTunes content on a monthly subscription. But I will remain very skeptical until I see it. I say this because I know how greedy the entertainment business is and how awful netflix's instant que selection is and they're definitly a powerhouse of media distribution.

10/5/2009 8:25:38 AM

I was on the way in from work and used shazam on my iphone to figure out the name of a song. Got me thinking, if you have a subscription service it would be pretty cool if you hear a song like that to just add it to your library. is there an API to pull down content from the zune store from within 3rd party apps?

10/5/2009 9:15:16 AM

^Shazzam will link the song to iTunes for purchase, youtube if you want to watch the music video and i believe another music service. Don't see why they can't add Zune Marketplace now that 3rd party apps are supported.

10/5/2009 9:23:45 AM

what i meant was i didn't know if the Zune had access to the marketplace from within 3rd party apps.

10/5/2009 9:30:28 AM

Quote :

"I am all for a subscription based marketplace. I would give anything to have iTunes content on a monthly subscription. But I will remain very skeptical until I see it. I say this because I know how greedy the entertainment business is and how awful netflix's instant que selection is and they're definitly a powerhouse of media distribution."

If I remember correctly Rhapsody and Zune Marketplace have very similar content as far as music is concerned, and Rhapsody's content is pretty good.

10/5/2009 10:10:30 AM

^thats music though...I was more concerned with the video. I tried out rhapsody app last week and they do seem to have a decent selection although not everything i was looking for.

10/5/2009 10:23:48 AM

^^Zune lets you keep 10 songs a month as well though

10/5/2009 11:55:20 PM

So what are peoples opinions about this thing becoming an actual gaming platform?

I know it has the ability; this isn't a capability question.

Do you guys think the community will be there? Will MS push it like apple pushes the iPhone/touch?

Or will it mainly focus on home theater content?

10/6/2009 9:44:55 AM

^It would be cool to see them go a similar route but better that sony did with the PSP and PS3. But until it has a phone built in I don't see owning one happening anytime soon simply because it doesn't do anything that I would use it for better than the iPhone for me to justify having two bulky devices with me at all times.

10/6/2009 10:27:36 AM

^^its going to be a serious gaming platform (my opinion). It uses the same XNA framework as the XBLA, same tools, has serious hardware backing it up.

http://www.pocketgamer.co.uk/r/Windows+Mobile/Zune/news.asp?c=15985

Is a recent article from a studio that works on both platforms. He's pretty reserved about comparing the iPhone to the ZuneHD, but one remark really hit it home for me:

Quote :

"Also, 3D gaming on Zune HD is going to have a great future. I think that it has a potential of reviling dedicated handheld gaming devices."

Which points to it not competing with the iDevices, but more with the PSP/DS.

The other part is speed to market, which I think is going to be pretty enticing to developers:

Quote :

"we still went from nothing to a full 3D game with 4-player wi-fi multiplayer in three months."

Anyone who works on OpenGL apps on the iPhone would kill to have that kind of development cycle.

10/6/2009 10:48:04 AM

Even throwing out the iPhone

It seems like it is a direct competitor to the iTouch in addition to Sony and Nintendo offerings.

I just hope the audience is there to bring the developers. The short cycle will definitely help.

They can't possibly make getting the app onto the device as much of a pain as apple has.

10/6/2009 11:23:47 AM

Quote :

"Even throwing out the iPhone It seems like it is a direct competitor to the iTouch in addition to Sony and Nintendo offerings. I just hope the audience is there to bring the developers. The short cycle will definitely help. They can't possibly make getting the app onto the device as much of a pain as apple has."

iTouch? What is this iTouch you speak of?

Also there are several reasons why apples approval process is a pain in the ass. One being that only quality apps make it to the marketplace and it doesn't get saturated with too much junk or malware.

The other is more on the side of greed for both apple and AT&T to control any apps that would A) effect AT&T's profits and B) compete against apple's media sales although i'm starting to see that as being less and less of a problem with the introduction of rhapsody's app and other similar apps.

10/6/2009 11:40:35 AM

Does it have buttons? Ok, then it's not a serious gaming platform. Touch screen controls just aren't accurate or responsive enough for the majority of games you see on the PSP/DS. Not yet at least.

10/6/2009 11:47:07 AM

Quote :

"iTouch? What is this iTouch you speak of? Also there are several reasons why apples approval process is a pain in the ass. One being that only quality apps make it to the marketplace and it doesn't get saturated with too much junk or malware. The other is more on the side of greed for both apple and AT&T to control any apps that would A) effect AT&T's profits and B) compete against apple's media sales although i'm starting to see that as being less and less of a problem with the introduction of rhapsody's app and other similar apps."

iPod Touch

I wasn't so much talking about the approval process. Quality control is fine with me. It is their store afterall.

I was more talking about the development process. Getting the app onto a test device requires excessive hoop jumping in my opinion.

10/6/2009 11:47:25 AM

Oh it is hell to do that. Took me forever to figure it out and get that working haha

10/6/2009 11:48:50 AM

Quote :

"Also there are several reasons why apples approval process is a pain in the ass. One being that only quality apps make it to the marketplace and it doesn't get saturated with too much junk or malware."

Surely not even the biggest Apple fanboys (aka you) can even believe this steaming pile of bullshit.

Also qft:

Quote :

"Does it have buttons? Ok, then it's not a serious gaming platform."

10/6/2009 4:39:54 PM

^Seriously. The app approval process doesn't have a damn thing to do with quality assurance. Damn near every app on the AppStore is buggy as shit, crashes randomly and would be laughed at on any other platform.

There is so much absolute trash on the iStore, it's getting difficult to find anything that isn't garbage and isn't "Apple featured".

Quote :

"Does it have buttons? Ok, then it's not a serious gaming platform. Touch screen controls just aren't accurate or responsive enough for the majority of games you see on the PSP/DS. Not yet at least."

the zune has *pressure sensitive* capacitive multi-touch. That alone makes it infinitely more suited for modern games. Funny that the Wii and DS seem to get along fine with very few buttons (ive never even used the DS with anything but the stylus). Natal and "Sphere" both seem to be counter to your argument as well.

10/6/2009 5:08:27 PM

Quote :

" Does it have buttons? Ok, then it's not a serious gaming platform"

message_topic.aspx?topic=567751

10/6/2009 5:12:13 PM

Quote :

"the zune has *pressure sensitive* capacitive multi-touch. That alone makes it infinitely more suited for modern games."

Surely not even the biggest Apple Microsoft fanboys (aka you) can even believe this steaming pile of bullshit.

Seriously? Pressure sensitive = infinitely more suited? You might want to look up the meaning of the word infinitely.

The DS has 8 buttons and a digital pad. I don't know what games you play on the DS but I can think of maybe two that don't take at least SOME advantage of those buttons. The Wiimote alone has 7 buttons and a pad. You might also want to take a look at the meaning of "very few". I'm not saying the Zune/iPhone/whatever needs 24 buttons, 2 analog pads, a digital pad, and a steering wheel in order to be able to play games, but a d-pad and 4 (hell, even 2) buttons would actually be "infinitely more suited" to play games with.

And it's entirely possible that I end up eating these words, but I'll go on record as saying I don't think Natal or Sphere are anything more than a gimmick designed to take advantage of the current fad of motion sensing. Yeah, you might have a couple of games that are played solely by tilting a controller (or your body) but for the most part MODERN games require buttons for precise control. And that isn't changing anytime soon.

10/6/2009 5:24:27 PM

Quote :

"Surely not even the biggest Apple fanboys (aka you) can even believe this steaming pile of bullshit."

Again with this fanboy bullshit? Is that really the best you've got?

Quote :

"^Seriously. The app approval process doesn't have a damn thing to do with quality assurance. Damn near every app on the AppStore is buggy as shit, crashes randomly and would be laughed at on any other platform. There is so much absolute trash on the iStore, it's getting difficult to find anything that isn't garbage and isn't "Apple featured"."

You missed the point...they aren't QAing your app..thats your job to do. Its more so you don't release an app thats VOIP and works over 3G for example. Or does something else that apple doesn't want you doing.

And yes there is a lot of garbage out there just like there is tons of garbage applications for Windows (comes with the territory) but at the same time there is a lot of very impressive apps. So to say 'dan near every app on the AppStore is buggy as shit, crashes randomly and would be laughed at on any other platform.' is by far the most ridiculous thing you've ever said on here.

I've had absolutely no trouble finding quality apps that aren't apple featured and aren't garbage.

10/6/2009 5:44:21 PM

Quote :

"Again with this fanboy bullshit? Is that really the best you've got?"

Uh, no. While calling you a fanboy, I also called you out for saying that Apple does Quality Control during the approval process. Something that Noen also called you out on, and then you conveniently backpedaled on.

I mean it's cool and all that you can see what you said was absolutely retarded. It only took two people pointing it out.

10/6/2009 5:50:59 PM

Except you didn't call me out. I explained what I meant by 'quality' apps and not for example apps that cost $1000 that are a just a photo of a red diamond.

10/6/2009 6:45:47 PM

You are, without a doubt, the dumbest individual that is allowed to post on this website.

10/6/2009 7:56:12 PM

very clever.

10/6/2009 7:57:09 PM

I mean, for your one example of what doesn't constitute a quality app, you could have at least picked an example of something that DIDN'T make it though the rigorous quality approval process.

10/6/2009 7:59:35 PM

Quote :

"I mean, for your one example of what doesn't constitute a quality app, you could have at least picked an example of something that DIDN'T make it though the rigorous quality approval process. "

Let me go find that list of rejected apps real quick...brb

10/6/2009 8:00:50 PM

You were talking about the approval process, no?

You can't just change your argument to suit whatever point you're trying to make. Removing something after it gets though the process doesn't exactly prove your original point about how they only allow quality apps in the first place. Pretty soon you'll be arguing about how the sky is blue just so you know what it feels like to not be completely wrong about something.

10/6/2009 8:06:55 PM

again...so clever. You must be so impressed with yourself.

10/6/2009 8:29:17 PM

Yet again proving I'm smarter than you? Nah, that's no big deal, it happens so often.

10/6/2009 8:30:04 PM

haha

10/6/2009 8:32:30 PM

SHUT THE FUCK UP

10/6/2009 9:45:59 PM

Buggy as shit describes damn near every app I use.

Facebook app = buggy as shit.
Mint.com = buggy as shit until the latest release
Civilization = buggy as fuck
Safari, weatherbug, dungeon defense = buggy as fuck

dude, at least 1/3 of all the apps I've downloaded have either crashed or exhibited ridiculous bugginess in the first 30 minutes of use. There's also a big difference between apps on the app store and just any random windows application. If you want to make a comparison, look at xbla community games versus the iPhone. You can argue quality of play differences, but xbla community games are infinitely better from a code quality perspective.

El Nacho: I play casual games. I've yet to play a game on the ds, wii, or iPhone that is unplayable or even a distraction without physical buttons. And pressure sensitivity does make a huge difference, or at least two generations of consoles would agree that it does. Fair enough on your assessment of natal and sphere, but two giants pouring billions of dollars into it makes me pretty confident that it's more than just a fad.

10/6/2009 11:02:57 PM

Palm Pre <1.2
iPhone 3.1

buggy as hell

10/7/2009 10:34:45 AM