Basically this guy is making so little money at his pizza place that it's made him go nuts over credit card transaction fees.

Its quite comical.

3/31/2011 4:55:31 PM

Quote :

"Like I said earlier, the swipe fee and % of sale probably in the end doesn't yield them a lot of profit"

IF you don't know the facts, Don't guess.

3/31/2011 4:56:57 PM

regardless of those facts, you still refuse to discuss how a responsible consumer in the current credit card system is worse off using a credit card and earning rewards versus paying for stuff in cash.

Please list the exact scenarios where using cash is quantitatively better (not including the miniscule amount of merchants who actually have a different price for cash vs credit).

3/31/2011 5:00:40 PM

he can't because it's not.

Quote :

"IF you don't know the facts, Don't guess."

Doesn't take a genius like yourself to figure out that most of their profit comes from the 20%+ interest rates they're charging, not the 3% fee they're charging businesses. Don't be dense.

[Edited on March 31, 2011 at 5:16 PM. Reason : f]

3/31/2011 5:14:29 PM

Quote :

"IF you don't know the facts, Don't guess."

So let me recap for those following along. We've gone from a discussion about CC's and how they benefit responsible people who A) pay off their balances monthly and B) don't alter their spending simply because they have a CC to pointing out that CC are a for profit enterprise? You can't fomulate any responses to the folks who have laid out the facts in a clear format about cash vs. CC's. We're still waiting, and it's been an awfully long time.

I then make the claim that because I do fit the criteria above the CC companies either don't make money off me (which I still stand by), or what they make off me is peanuts. Let's go ahead and assume you're correct in that CC companies do make lots of money off me (which I don't think they do when it's all added up), it still doesn't change the fact that I personally, am better off financially to use said CC than cash. Essentially, you're trying to rub my nose in the fact that CC companies are a business set up to make money, wow, what a concept I didn't already know. Like I said, they don't make money off me, I'm just yielding to your assertion to show you you're still missing some chromosomes.

However, I'd more than like to see a profit/loss breakdown with me personally from the CC company on a yearly basis for my own curious reasons. Also, please, by all means, send me the bill from planned parenthood if you ever find yourself in a bind, it would be my greatest philanthropic contribution to society.

Well now I get it, I just read through the entire discussion and it appears you were/are a business owner and are griping about the CC companies and the fees they charge. Guess what, that's not changing, might as well adapt. Probably shouldn't let your outrage at what they charge your business cloud whatever common sense you have towards responsible consumers.


[Edited on March 31, 2011 at 5:43 PM. Reason : .]

3/31/2011 5:31:42 PM

Quote :

"I then make the claim that because I do fit the criteria above the CC companies either don't make money off me (which I still stand by), "

Let me spell i out for you

ONE. MORE. TIME.

They make money every single time YOU use your card.

3/31/2011 5:42:01 PM

How?

3/31/2011 5:47:21 PM

how what?

3/31/2011 5:48:31 PM

Let me spell it out for you ONE more time.
We understand credit card companies are "for profit" businesses. You have not begun to ask me what my rewards are so there's no way you can know if they end up making a profit off me. We know they are making straight profit off you, the business owner. You also have no idea what the CC company has with regards to overhead, expenses, employees, etc etc. You're a business owner and see each individual swipe as going into the CC company's pocket without having the slightest clue if the CC company is putting some/most/all/all and then some back into my pocket with each individual rewards system. I'd quit digging the hole you've dug, you've clearly demonstrated your rage at the CC companies and it's clouded whatever good judgment (I'm being kind here) you have.

And of course, feel free to address how cash is better than CC's for responsible consumers (saying this while knowing full well you'll dodge this as you have the entire discussion). Anyway, the joke is on me anyhow seeing how I took the bait from someone displaying unmatched ignorance.

[Edited on March 31, 2011 at 5:57 PM. Reason : .]

3/31/2011 5:53:02 PM

He has to be trolling.

3/31/2011 5:57:47 PM

Quote :

"You have not begun to ask me what my rewards are so there's no way you can know if they end up making a profit off me."

Why do I need to ask you this meaningless information?

Quote :

"You also have no idea what the CC company has with regards to overhead, expenses, employees, etc etc."

They have to report their profits at the end of the year to the government. They also release how much profit they made.



Sing with me to your ignorance

3/31/2011 6:07:46 PM

I hope his business isnt in Raleigh. Any business owner that is straight out being a horses ass to potential customers is doomed for failure sooner rather than later.

Doesnt take a genius...

[Edited on March 31, 2011 at 7:03 PM. Reason : .]

3/31/2011 7:01:08 PM

Ooh I'm SoO sCaReD

3/31/2011 7:07:00 PM

No, his business is in the worst possible place for a pizza place to be that isn't Hillsborough St.

There's no use arguing with him. A month ago his business failed because of the overhead of running a small business, this month it's credit card fees. Just let him be.

3/31/2011 7:27:01 PM

Quote :

"Just as suspected, everyone knows what nickle and diming a person is. I created THIS thread because somehow, in some way, everyone on this site managed to forget this concept while arguing in the "Credit Cards (not a debt question)" thread. They can't figure out why on Earth someone would complain about merchant credit card fees. The believe when THEY spend $1, WE are only losing $.03 and gain $.97. Wrong. They forget that the $1 is cut up ~$.33 to rebuy the product. They forget that the $1 is cut up ~$.43 to pay for taxes, licenses, utilities, labor, etc. They forget that the $1 is cut up ~$.20 to pay for repairs, advertising, and expanding the business In fact, the average $200,000 restaurant business is doing WELL if they get to keep just 5% of their gross revenue. That said, having credit card companies taking 3% of every sale, including 3% of all credit card tips and taxes which is money that doesn't even belong to me, it really does make it worth an argument."

http://thewolfweb.com/message_topic.aspx?topic=610906

The provide a service and you pay a fee for said service. What is so difficult to understand Genius?

4/1/2011 10:36:14 AM

What he is really complaining about is not being able to compete in a market place where the small business competes against big business with tiny margains, that through economies of scale, can take those small margins across many stores to turn a substancial profit. Its not the credit card companies fault. Their fees are reasonable.

Unfortunately, we have someone who didnt execute a very good business plan and is now bitching about it.

4/1/2011 11:03:22 AM

Quote :

"The provide a service and you pay a fee for said service. What is so difficult to understand Genius?"

That's crazytalk. GB would never nickel and dime the CC companies.

4/1/2011 11:24:36 AM

Quote :

"Unfortunately, we have someone who didnt execute a very good business plan and is now bitching about it."

BINGO

4/1/2011 11:28:15 AM

Quote :

"The provide a service and you pay a fee for said service. What is so difficult to understand Genius?"

The fact that I'm paying for your rewards against my will.

It used to be 1% rewards max among all credit cards, then 2%, then 3%, and now it's 5%. That magic money doesn't come out of the credit card company's profits. Oh no, you best believe the profits stay the same.

Where does the money come from? They raise business rates to pay for them.

Can businesses live without credit cards? Nope.
Why? Because customers are being paid to use them and users are obsessed with getting "cashback".


Would Americans use credit cards if they didn't get rewards?
That is the question.

The answer: Yes they would, but they'd use it A LOT less. The burden on the business would be negligible





[Edited on April 1, 2011 at 11:41 AM. Reason : ..]

4/1/2011 11:36:15 AM

I would use it the same amount because I hate carrying coins.

4/1/2011 11:37:31 AM

lol wut

4/1/2011 11:38:28 AM

Yeah, I hate carrying cash as well. I don't really care if they raise business rates in order to provide me with cash back.

4/1/2011 11:59:31 AM

Quote :

"Would Americans use credit cards if they didn't get rewards? That is the question. The answer: Yes they would, but they'd use it A LOT less. The burden on the business would be negligible "

Meh...I disagree. I'm not saying that they wouldn't use them less...but it wouldn't be as much as you think...especially in this economy. A lot of people are getting by right now because of credit cards, and I'm not talking just about people amounting tons of debt, but people who still carry a decent balance but can't pay it off immediately because of their financial situation.

When I got my first debit card in high school I used it ALL the time. The only reason I used cash for a good portion of my life was because I was bartending for a long time and had a large amount of cash available at all times. I didn't get a card with rewards until a couple years ago and I do use it all the time. The rewards is just a bonus...I wouldn't use cash even without the rewards. I don't like extra errands. Going to the bank is a pain in the ass I like to avoid. I pay most of my bills online and try to direct deposit as much as possible...and I hated going to the ATM when I had a debit card.

I think that's main thing you are ignoring which is probably the most obvious reason why people use credit cards so much....CONVENIENCE. Everything we've do on a consistent basis for the past 50 years has steadily become more easy to do because of technology...paying for things (by credit card, online, on your phone, etc) being one of those things. I worked behind cash registers long before rewards became so widespread...and I've worked behind them since they've become popular. It's not been that big of a difference.

So quit bitching about the little things and figure out the main reasons why your business isn't doing well.

4/1/2011 12:01:59 PM

Newsflash: The whole small business economy isn't doing well.

4/1/2011 12:08:04 PM

Quote :

"Newsflash: The whole small business economy isn't doing well."

Newsflash...small businesses aren't failing because of credit card transaction fees.

4/1/2011 12:14:44 PM

I pay more for credit card service than I do for 3 phone lines, cable tv, and internet combined. Throw in the water bill into there and we'd match what I pay for swiping a card threw the buttcrack of america

4/1/2011 12:19:34 PM

I have never gotten any points from my debit card. Up until the financial reform act, I used it for everything (almost no cash). Now that banks will probably start limiting debit transactions, I have proactively switched to a charge card. The rewards are a perk, but were not the motivation.

4/1/2011 12:19:49 PM

Quote :

"I pay more for credit card service than I do for 3 phone lines, cable tv, and internet combined. Throw in the water bill into there and we'd match what I pay for swiping a card threw the buttcrack of america"

Then you got swindled (or you're making up shit). I've had access to or paid bills for several restaurants and the credit card services never came close to what you're talking about. Did you even try to shop around (there are options)??

[Edited on April 1, 2011 at 12:25 PM. Reason : .]

4/1/2011 12:24:55 PM

Whats the name of his place?

4/1/2011 12:25:52 PM

So I have "bad" credit, even though I've never had debt problems (car loan always paid on time, college loans always paid on time), I've just never had a credit card.

Anyways I'd like to fix this and build it up. Do you guys suggest any credit cards that would be good for this?

4/1/2011 12:27:30 PM

Some pizza place in Virginia in a military town.

You need to find the thread he made in Chit Chat about his business failing. His reasons for opening in that particular place were hilarious to begin with (and completely misguided). Then his only previous experience in running a restaurant/bar before that was that he cooked pizza at Papa John's for a long time (he MIGHT have managed for a little while...but again, a Papa Johns, not a sit down restaurant with a bar).

The thread is so full of Fail on his side that it gets kind of sad. But then he makes shit threads like this and you stop feeling sorry for him.

4/1/2011 12:30:12 PM

Minka, if you are married, then you can try and have your spouse add you as a joint account holder. You will inherit his payment record for that card (so make sure he has a good record). Otherwise, you might go to creditcardforum.com and solicit some better advice.

4/1/2011 12:34:03 PM

Quote :

"Do you guys suggest any credit cards that would be good for this?"

I had your same problem coming out of college (no credit cards).

Just went to my bank and got their basic credit card (actually two banks...also got a joint credit card with my mom at SECU).

After a year of sparsely using those cards (2 or 3 purchases a month that were immediately paid off), my credit was pretty good. Switched banks and got a good credit card with that bank and my credit is now about as high as it can get.

It just takes a little while.

4/1/2011 12:52:29 PM

Quote :

"The three common approaches are: getting a secured credit card, getting your parents to list you as an authorized user on their credit card or qualifying and applying for a student card. "

http://www.bankrate.com/brm/news/DrDon/20070308_first_credit_card_tips_a1.asp
http://www.bankrate.com/finance/credit-cards/getting-your-first-credit-card.aspx

4/1/2011 1:03:41 PM

Quote :

"Some pizza place in Virginia in a military town. You need to find the thread he made in Chit Chat about his business failing. His reasons for opening in that particular place were hilarious to begin with (and completely misguided). Then his only previous experience in running a restaurant/bar before that was that he cooked pizza at Papa John's for a long time (he MIGHT have managed for a little while...but again, a Papa Johns, not a sit down restaurant with a bar). The thread is so full of Fail on his side that it gets kind of sad. But then he makes shit threads like this and you stop feeling sorry for him."

Seriously? You have no idea what the fuck you just said. you got 98% of the information wrong.

[Edited on April 1, 2011 at 2:13 PM. Reason : The 2% you got right was the word Virginia]

4/1/2011 2:11:26 PM

http://www.allaroundpizza.com/

4/1/2011 2:14:53 PM

^^Please correct what I got wrong. Because I'm pretty sure everything I said is not far off from the truth (like there being a large military population in the town as opposed to a "military town").

4/1/2011 2:21:05 PM

Quote :

"So I have "bad" credit, even though I've never had debt problems (car loan always paid on time, college loans always paid on time), I've just never had a credit card. Anyways I'd like to fix this and build it up. Do you guys suggest any credit cards that would be good for this?"

Pretty much what everyone else said. If your car loan is through a bank that offers a credit card, that's probably the best place to start.

4/1/2011 2:22:35 PM

Quote :

"Seriously? You have no idea what the fuck you just said. you got 98% of the information wrong."

What he said was almost exactly the gist of your previous thread. And your response and general attitude is almost exactly how you respond in so many other words to anything anyone says against you.

4/2/2011 9:37:15 AM

Perhaps you didn't read the whole thread, Wolface.


It's kind of like not reading all the questions on the test before you start and the last question says "Submit this test with only your name on it for an A, else get an F".


You fail.

4/2/2011 3:05:42 PM

lol sure thing brah

4/2/2011 4:41:18 PM

That makes you look both smart and mature! I'm glad you decided to take the higher route to better yourself instead of brushing off your silly mistake.

4/2/2011 6:17:45 PM

For the record mastercard and visa make money off the swipes they have nothing to do with whether you pay your balance or not. They don't have a skin in the game, they just want trillions of swipes and the money they make is NOT negligible. They are just making money hand over fist because they have a near monopoly presence in the industry.

The people liable for the balances can make good money or they can run into 2008 and write down huge losses. I'd say they are pretty reasonably compensated for the huge level of risk they take.

4/3/2011 4:25:40 AM

Yes, I know it's a business. Business have to profit.


Where I draw the line is the rewards program.
They pay YOU to use the card instead of cash...but wait...it's not THEM paying you, they are using MY money to pay you. The more they pay you, the more they take from me.

It most definitely changes the behavior of customer's spending habits to go above and beyond to use their credit cards instead of cash.

For instance:

A party of three eats at the restaurant.
They split the check three ways.
Two pay with cash, one pays with credit card.
The guy with the credit card, acting like a knight in shining armor, valiantly suggests he should "make it easier on me" by putting it all on his card and just taking the cash for himself.
We all know he is doing to for the rewards.
Now, instead of paying 1/3rd the fee, I am paying 3/3rds the fee.

Get it? It's unnecessary money out of my pocket.



[Edited on April 3, 2011 at 4:54 AM. Reason : ..]

4/3/2011 4:51:12 AM

I do that shit all the time. It's no different than rakeback in poker. You make profit, a % of that profit is given to the cc company and then they give a % of that profit back to me.

4/3/2011 9:45:36 AM

Quote :

"they are using MY money to pay you"

Not your money. Your customer's money.

4/3/2011 9:55:45 AM

Ok. Lets get back on topic. Lets stop talking to the failure.

4/3/2011 10:20:24 AM

Quote :

"Not your money. Your customer's money."

LoL, seriously? Use pencil and paper to figure out the transfer of funds in your head.


Person C watches Person A receive money from Person B
Person C charges Person A $1.00 for the transfer of money.

Now: Person C wants Person B to use the card with more frequency by paying him to use the card.
Person C watches Person A receive money from Person B.
Person C charges Person A $3.00 for the transfer of money.
Person C gives $2.00 to Person B
Person C gains $1.00 and has bribed Person B to use his card with Person A's money.
0 profit loss for Person C means they are using Persons B's money.

[Edited on April 3, 2011 at 6:01 PM. Reason : I can tell already this is too complicated]

4/3/2011 6:00:29 PM

Correct me if I'm wrong--I'm not a businessman--but if the customer doesn't give your business money, then you don't have any money.

4/3/2011 6:32:55 PM

You know what I would do if I were a business owner, I'd get myself a nice business credit card with rewards and then, whenever I had to buy anything for my business, I'd use that card.

4/3/2011 6:59:50 PM