look how easily he moved you two off of Bannon running the country even after i pointed out the spin

1/31/2017 10:26:14 AM

Maybe we should make more topical threads instead of credibility threads. That way we can hone down on one subject at a time instead of the shiny object, twitter format we have now.

1/31/2017 10:32:08 AM

Quote :

"Bannon running the country"

Lol you want to talk about someone else "running the country"?

Trump payed his way to the Whitehouse

Clinton was bought and paid for by the typical establishment donors trading cash for favors... but yea, the guy that put $60+ million into his own campaign rather than accept donations is just a puppet for supervillain Steve Bannon. Who, according to my latest leftist smear campaign is:

An anti-semite
A white supremacist
A wife-beating, divorced monster!

1/31/2017 11:20:48 AM

leninist

1/31/2017 11:23:13 AM

Quote :

"But when their jobs don't come, they're going to blame Trump, and the next election cycle it will be back to business as usual. It's all about limiting the damage right now."

Automation and technology will make that true. To my knowledge the only candidate who talked about getting those people the kind of skills needed to compete in this new world was Bernie Sanders (Clinton may have?? I legit can't remember but it was definitely Sanders first). I get the argument that Dems and Clinton specifically actively lost this constituency but what Trump promised them is just taking advantage of them and nothing more. Not real solutions.

But how do you help those who won't help themselves?

(And as a side note, I'm not sure they will come back. Trump is a master at making promises, lying and shifting blame)

1/31/2017 12:38:21 PM

We need to make a distinction between "manufacturing" and "manufacturing jobs". Manufacturing is already coming back, hell you could make the argument it never left. We've remained a close second to China in total manufacturing output despite what, nearly 1/6th the population? The problem is it's not hundreds or thousands of people drilling holes or assembling fittings on an assembly lines, it's all automated. The actual "jobs" are indeed gone, and will never come back in those numbers.

As for the Democrats in general, contrary to the popular post-election narrative, Hillary won voters both nationally and in swing states who listed the economy as their #1 concern. Trump voters had immigration, terrorism and foreign policy ahead of economic concerns. Hillary also talked about jobs and the economy more than Trump and more than any other single issue based on word counts in campaign speeches. In other words, winning back those voters Democrats lost in the last election is a much more complex question than people are framing it as.

[Edited on January 31, 2017 at 1:59 PM. Reason : .]

1/31/2017 1:38:39 PM

LOL @ Pelosi and Cummings falling for fake tweets from a fake Flynn account

And the NYT fell for it too

2/15/2017 9:34:49 AM

Lol, throw in Dems asking Bernie to tell "his people" make their town halls easier.

Stop it. Answer some hard questions and pay attention to what your damn people want.

2/15/2017 9:57:06 AM

Quote :

"Stop it. Answer some hard questions and pay attention to what your damn people want."

I can agree with that.

2/15/2017 10:25:01 AM

N/M TWW wont get it.

[Edited on February 15, 2017 at 5:07 PM. Reason : 1]

2/15/2017 5:06:15 PM

Is this really true?

https://twitter.com/DineshDSouza/status/831939120259686400

And did anybody see his movie?

2/15/2017 9:16:28 PM

Yes it is true. lol

And no, none of these hacks could tolerate a post they disagree with, let alone a movie.

2/15/2017 11:38:46 PM

Whether any Republicans owned slaves I have no idea. The Republican party was pretty new at the time, abolition was one of their primary platforms, and mostly based in the North so I guess it's slightly plausible, but unless someone could provide a list of the political party of every slave owner in US history it's impossible to prove.

But the claim that every slave owner was a Democrat is obviously bogus. Whigs owned slaves.

[Edited on February 16, 2017 at 12:20 AM. Reason : But it's irrelevant and ignores that the parties aren't the same as they were 150 years ago]

2/16/2017 12:17:49 AM

The pro-slavery democrats became republicans in the southern strategy... this is common knowledge.

Kind of irrelevant if "republicans" and "democrats" owned slaves back in slaves days, since the platforms are almost entirely different since then.

2/16/2017 1:12:43 AM

This is like shit saying it was once Kobe beef.

2/16/2017 5:59:25 AM

yeah it would be more relevant to point out back when the Klan had political power they were democrats.

2/16/2017 6:23:01 AM

strom thurmond lived long enough to illustrate this transition.

2/16/2017 7:17:34 AM

Clinton should have stepped down during the midst of her FBI scandal and given her support to Bernie.

2/17/2017 7:33:16 AM

^one thing I'll say in hindsight - the DNC should have done what they are chartered to do, run a fair primary. I've said before they don't legally have to, but their own rules state they are supposed to.

Given that Trump beat Hillary, they actually, in hindsight, would have had a way better chance with Bernie. The emails thing was simply too much for her (although Comey had a direct hand in that with his October bullshit).

Or you could look at it from one other way - her campaign should not have ignored states like Wisconsin. That was a HUGE misstep on their part and they had all the data to say they shouldn't have missed that. The very fact that Trump won his primary was PROOF those states were important. Hell even Michael Moore saw that.

Regarding Comey's thing, though, is it fair to say he could have made his decision with the same intent that the individuals passing around the information on Flynn did? Genuine concern for our country?

Just a question.

[Edited on February 17, 2017 at 10:29 AM. Reason : a]

[Edited on February 17, 2017 at 10:30 AM. Reason : a]

2/17/2017 10:28:54 AM

i don't remember seeing fairness in their charter

2/17/2017 11:15:55 AM

You should be thanking Comey for the unprecedented case of handing out immunity to everyone without making any prosecution attempts.

Also, when Anthony Weiner is caught sexting rape fantasies to a 16 yo, and he has Clinton emails on his machine... how is that Comey's fault?

"If there is a scandal on the left, the story is how the scandal was exposed."
"If there is a scandal on the right, the story is the scandal"

2/17/2017 12:14:43 PM

Quote :

"i don't remember seeing fairness in their charter"

http://www.demrulz.org/wp-content/files/DNC_Charter__Bylaws_9.11.2009.pdf

Quote :

" Article 1. Section 4. Establish standards and rules of procedure to afford all members of the Democratic Party full, timely and equal opportunities to participate in decisions concerning the selection of candidates, the formulation of policy, and the conduct of other Party affairs, without prejudice on the basis of sex, race, age (if of voting age), color, creed, national origin, religion, economic status, sexual orientation, ethnic identity or physical disability, and further, to promote fair campaign practices and the fair adjudication of disputes. Accordingly, the scheduling of Democratic Party affairs at all levels shall consider the presence of any religious minorities of significant numbers of concentration whose level of participation would be affected; Section 7. Encourage and support codes of political ethics that embody substantive rules of ethical guidance for public officials and employees in federal, state and local governments, to assure that public officials shall at all times conduct themselves in a manner that reflects creditably upon the office they serve, shall not use their office to gain special privileges and benefits and shall refrain from acting in their official capacities when their independence of judgement would be adversely affected by personal interest or duties. "

Quote :

" Article 2. Section 4. (b) assure that delegations fairly reflect the division of preferences expressed by those who participate in the Presidential nominating process, (e) allow participation in good faith by all voters who are Democrats and, to the extent determined by a State Party to be in the interests of the Democratic Party in that State, by voters who are not registered or affiliated with any party; and [quote] Article 5 Section 4. The National Chairperson shall serve full time and shall receive such compensation as may be determined by agreement between the Chairperson and the Democratic National Committee. In the conduct and management of the affairs and procedures of the Democratic National Committee, particularly as they apply to the preparation and conduct of the Presidential nomination process, the Chairperson shall exercise impartiality and evenhandedness as between the Presidential candidates and campaigns. The Chairperson shall be responsible for ensuring that the national officers and staff of the Democratic National Committee maintain impartiality and evenhandedness during the Democratic Party Presidential nominating process. "

Quote :

" Article 9 Section 8. To assure that the Democratic nominee for the office of President of the United States is selected by a fair and equitable process, the Democratic National Committee may adopt such statements of policy as it deems appropriate with respect to the timing of Presidential nominating processes and shall work with state Parties to accomplish the objectives of such statements. Section 9. The Democratic National Committee shall maintain and publish a code of fair campaign practices, which shall be recommended for observance by all candidates campaigning as Democrats. "

2/17/2017 1:50:52 PM

none of that says it has to be conducted fairly

2/17/2017 2:02:55 PM

^The word "fair" appears five times in the excerpts I posted and that was only after reading like three pages of the document...

2/17/2017 2:03:40 PM

nothing prevents the DNC from having a preference and for structuring stuff in a way that might influence the result, it would not violate any of the charter rules

2/17/2017 2:06:10 PM

^I think you're not understanding what you're reading. I get what you're trying to say (and I think I said that as well). LEGALLY speaking, they can do whatever they want. But they ARE violating their own bylaws when they are not running things in a fair, objective manner.

When the DNC says it didn't break any laws, it is telling the truth.
When the DNC says it didn't behave in a way that contradicts their own bylaws (and is therefore corrupt), they are lying.


[Edited on February 17, 2017 at 2:10 PM. Reason : a]

2/17/2017 2:09:13 PM

which bylaw did they violate specifically? they didn't.

2/17/2017 2:12:58 PM

All of the ones that say the word "fair."

Be serious. You cannot reasonably think they didn't violate their own bylaws.

2/17/2017 2:17:52 PM

pick one and explain how they violated it

2/17/2017 2:28:20 PM

Thousands of DNC and Hillary campaign emails, not one single receipt showing how the primary was rigged or unfair. Maybe Bernie should have contested southern states if he wanted to win.

2/17/2017 2:31:29 PM

Quote :

"pick one and explain how they violated it"

Quote :

"Article 5 Section 4. The National Chairperson shall serve full time and shall receive such compensation as may be determined by agreement between the Chairperson and the Democratic National Committee. In the conduct and management of the affairs and procedures of the Democratic National Committee, particularly as they apply to the preparation and conduct of the Presidential nomination process, the Chairperson shall exercise impartiality and evenhandedness as between the Presidential candidates and campaigns. The Chairperson shall be responsible for ensuring that the national officers and staff of the Democratic National Committee maintain impartiality and evenhandedness during the Democratic Party Presidential nominating process."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/07/24/here-are-the-latest-most-damaging-things-in-the-dncs-leaked-emails/?utm_term=.cb43f5b1f31b

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/jul/23/dnc-emails-wikileaks-hillary-bernie-sanders

https://theintercept.com/2016/07/22/dnc-staffers-mocked-the-bernie-sanders-campaign-leaked-emails-show/

Quote :

"Thousands of DNC and Hillary campaign emails, not one single receipt showing how the primary was rigged or unfair. Maybe Bernie should have contested southern states if he wanted to win."

I didn't say it was rigged at all. I'm saying they acted in a corrupt manner and showed favoritism which violates their own bylaws. As I've said in other threads, the voters had the full ability to vote Sanders in via the primaries if they wanted to.







[Edited on February 17, 2017 at 2:36 PM. Reason : a]

2/17/2017 2:35:30 PM

^^
They funneled millions of dollars into her campaign, specifically. Money that was meant for state parties and downticket candidates.

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/04/clinton-fundraising-leaves-little-for-state-parties-222670

They fed her debate questions.

DNC staffers encouraged the media to write hit pieces against Bernie.

All three of the DNC chair candidates, even Perez, have said the primaries were rigged against him.

[Edited on February 17, 2017 at 2:42 PM. Reason : .]

2/17/2017 2:42:30 PM

Quote :

"I didn't say it was rigged at all. I'm saying they acted in a corrupt manner and showed favoritism which violates their own bylaws. As I've said in other threads, the voters had the full ability to vote Sanders in via the primaries if they wanted to."

Office banter is not corruption. Nothing discussed in those emails was acted upon and all of them were from after Hillary had already wrapped up the nom. Again, there was absolutely nothing done in an official capacity by the DNC to tip the scales in Hillary's favor. The only thing we learned is that DNC staffers preferred a lifelong Democrat who'd raised millions of dollars for the party over an Independent who switched parties at the last second. Such scandal, much corruption.

^Bernie had the same fundraising opportunities Hillary did. This all goes back to how inept and unserious his campaign was about actually winning until it was too late. But yeah man, I'm sure it would have all been different if Hillary didn't know she was getting a question about the Flint water crisis in a Michigan town hall.

By the way, none of this is to say the DNC doesn't have problems. They've ignored the party at the state and local level for far too long, letting Republicans run roughshod over them in winnable elections. Organizationally it's been a mess for a long time, essentially relying on Obama's popularity to paper over all their deficiencies. Reform is good and welcome, but all this talk about rigged primaries and corruption is not helpful.

[Edited on February 17, 2017 at 3:09 PM. Reason : .]

2/17/2017 2:59:59 PM

No, Bernie did not have the same opportunity to extort money from state DNC parties.

2/17/2017 3:06:20 PM

This breaks it all down pretty well,

http://www.npr.org/2016/04/19/474851697/explainer-bernie-sanders-on-hillary-clintons-joint-fundraising-committee

Quote :

"The small irony here is that Sanders has a joint fundraising committee too: Bernie Victory Fund. The DNC set it up for him last year when it established the Hillary Victory Fund. But the Bernie Victory Fund has remained dormant and Sanders has relied on his base of small donors instead."

Long story short, Bernie could have asked state parties to "funnel" money into his campaign in the same exact manner. He chose not to, and then bitched about it as a political ploy.

[Edited on February 17, 2017 at 3:15 PM. Reason : .]

2/17/2017 3:14:57 PM

^^^you are 100% incorrect and any reasonable person, and I'll bet any lawyer, would agree. They wrote bylaws that said be fair and then they were not fair. Simple as that.

I'll leave it at that but check out this fucking hilariousness: https://imgur.com/gallery/wI1o8

2/17/2017 3:22:32 PM

^^
The problem is not that Clinton had a joint fund, it's that her campaign used shady loopholes and intimidation to keep most of the money for themselves. And the national party was involved with this intimidation, confirmed by state party officials.

[Edited on February 17, 2017 at 3:24 PM. Reason : .]

2/17/2017 3:23:52 PM

Quote :

"WikiLeaks emails revealed Wasserman Schultz used her position to develop the DNC into an extension of the Clinton campaign, while staff worked behind the scenes to attack Sanders. Emails from Clinton campaign chair John Podesta revealed they had a say in DNC staff decision-making, helped plan the Democratic National Convention, and developed strategies for the DNC to implement for the sole benefit of Clinton. DNC interim chair Donna Brazile was exposed as having helped the Clinton campaign cheat before CNN debates. Documents released by hacker Guccifer 2.0 revealed that Clinton was referred to as the nominee, and her victory was treated as a certainty in DNC documents before the primaries even began. The DNC and Wasserman Schultz, obligated to neutrality per the DNC charter, violated that neutrality, acting as a performance-enhancing drug that boosted Clinton’s candidacy in the primaries. Whether Clinton would have won anyway can only be speculated, but the evidence that democracy was subverted in order to help Clinton beat Sanders is overwhelming."

The charter promised neutrality, that is what was violated and that is why there is a lawsuit.

I think what gives me the most hope for Trump 2020 is that the Clinton hacks like Shrike still won't acknowledge the flaws within the corrupt DNC. If they would admit the problem I would be worried... but they remain as entrenched and oblivious as ever. They will blame Clinton's loss on everything but themselves.

2/17/2017 10:58:24 PM

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2017/02/17/leaked-emails-dem-state-leaders-think-obama-s-new-organizing-army-is-grade-a-bullshit.html

Looks like Democrats are just now realizing how badly Obama crippled their party.

Talk about a bunch of RACISTS.

2/17/2017 11:10:04 PM

Actually it's been talked about a lot and disseminated on here a bunch too.

Not sure how it's fun to make up an argument, attribute it to a group and then argue against it. It's quite bizarre.

2/18/2017 10:33:53 AM

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/02/trump-impeachment-democrats-235184

Dem lawmakers beginning to realize they have lost control of their crazy base, after encouraging said base to go crazy in the first place.

2/20/2017 7:14:41 AM

With one party rule now in place impeachment is off the table until even the GOP can't deny an offense rising to that level was committed. Of course impeachment only means indictment. He would have to stand trial in the Senate.

2/20/2017 7:47:55 AM

How can you impeach him if he is #NotYourPresident?

2/21/2017 11:52:49 AM

^I hate the "Not my president" shit. He is everyone's president. That's how this system works. People can disagree with him, hate him, want to impeach him, etc. But people don't get to say he isn't their president just because you didn't vote for him. They are part of this system.

That shit is so infuriatingly counterproductive.

[Edited on February 21, 2017 at 12:12 PM. Reason : a]

2/21/2017 12:12:07 PM

They can say that he isn't their President (otherwise, on what would the media have reported this weekend?).

Those who do are just idiots.

2/21/2017 6:11:35 PM

No, they are brave warriors of #SocialJustice protesting... uhhhhhhhhhh something. He hates gays right? no? He hates women right? no? Muslims? No? Shit what did the media tell me to be outraged by? I need peer validation!!!

2/21/2017 8:01:37 PM

https://theintercept.com/2017/02/24/key-question-about-dnc-race-why-did-white-house-recruit-perez-to-run-against-ellison/

2/24/2017 11:56:04 AM

I definitely find it interesting that one side of the party feels that the party's problem is that it's too far to the left and that the other side of the party feels that the party's problems is that it's too far to the center.

2/24/2017 12:41:51 PM

I'm so god damn sick of Glenn Greenwald articles. He's basically become a paranoid bomb thrower IMO (note: I read him quite often and probably will continue to, but he needs to layoff the corporate democrat paranoia) Gee, maybe the whitehouse recruited Perez (first he needs to show the whitehouse actually had to twist Perez's arm, seems doubtful to me) because they thought he had better management/leadership qualities, or more experience fundraising, or any number of reasons that aren't necessarily "the Obama/Clinton cabal still controls everything and are pulling all the strings!!!!!"

I guess it's hard to shift gears after regurgitating the same story for 8 years.

2/24/2017 1:49:26 PM

It's not "paranoia" if it's based in reality. And nah, he needs to keep on the pressure, because few others will.

[Edited on February 24, 2017 at 1:52 PM. Reason : .]

2/24/2017 1:51:17 PM