there is a video of a livestream where the collision happens about 7 minutesin, in that video you can see people getting in and out of the van

i didn't have any luck though when i just trued to find it again

8/13/2017 2:18:55 PM

Quote :

"they will continue to call them the alt-left and imply they are equal to the nazis"

and

Quote :

"But nooo......centrists will tell us that we need to be patient and work the process while Leftists are being murdered in the streets."

I don't think I've seen one example of either of these things happening

I'm also a bit wary of assigning a spot on a political spectrum to a group of peaceful protesters

[Edited on August 13, 2017 at 2:21 PM. Reason : new page. also, I'm always Team Punch A Nazi In The Face]

8/13/2017 2:20:51 PM

I can't seem to find the initial video I saw either.

screenshot of the first video with an "empty" driver seat, at least to my shitty vision.



[Edited on August 13, 2017 at 2:36 PM. Reason : img]

8/13/2017 2:31:05 PM

i think that's well after the minivan hit the people though

8/13/2017 2:37:07 PM

^^^ then get out more and read more?

8/13/2017 2:37:36 PM

Of course I know that YouTube comments don't exactly have a reputation for eloquence and intellect, but reading some of the comments on these videos is truly disturbing.

8/13/2017 2:46:35 PM

Quote :

"I'm also a bit wary of assigning a spot on a political spectrum to a group of peaceful protesters"

Then you fundamentally don't understand politics and the political power.

Those "peaceful protesters" were organized by the IWW, ISO, and DSA. All of those are Left groups in the US that advocate for a socialist alternative to corporate capitalism. They were not hippy beatniks with a-political leanings. They are organized groups agitating for structural change

Do not substitute your ignorance with measured nuance.

8/13/2017 3:05:29 PM

Quote :

"then get out more and read more?"

be a decent person and post some examples?

I've been super busy all weekend and haven't had much time to do much more than check twitter every so often

Quote :

"Then you fundamentally don't understand politics and the political power. Those "peaceful protesters" were organized by the IWW, ISO, and DSA. All of those are Left groups in the US that advocate for a socialist alternative to corporate capitalism. They were not hippy beatniks with a-political leanings. They are organized groups agitating for structural change Do not substitute your ignorance with measured nuance."

I have no real connection to any of those organizations, yet I would've been protesting alongside them had this been happening in Raleigh. I'm quite certain that I wouldn't be alone in that category.

8/13/2017 3:21:49 PM

No.... you really wouldn't have.


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DHCsYYQXgAAN5Fu.jpg

These were the flag that was left standing after the right wing neo-nazi's were pushed out of Emancipation Park in Charlottesville yesterday. They drove out the fascist right wing. Notice the clear lack of DNC flags and Donkey images? Centrists didn't show up. The Left did.

[Edited on August 13, 2017 at 3:30 PM. Reason : ]

8/13/2017 3:29:56 PM

I just told you that I would've been

8/13/2017 3:32:56 PM

Then start here:

http://www.newsobserver.com/news/local/article166971667.html

8/13/2017 3:40:40 PM

Charlottesville mayor says it as it is. GG.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/08/13/politics/charlottesville-mayor-michael-signer-cnntv/index.html

8/13/2017 4:37:01 PM

Quote :

"i think that's well after the minivan hit the people though"

Gotcha. I haven't seen any video that's well before the crash. What little before the crash I've seen it doesn't seem like anything had happened, just protesters doing their thing.

8/13/2017 5:03:01 PM

As much as I bitched and talked shit about the protestors/rioters in Charlotte last September, what happened yesterday is fucking sickening.

I was MIA most of this weekend and just read up on it this morning. I'm not surprised that there was violence or that people died. But that crazy fucker in office trying to nosedive this country into the ground.

Call these fuckers out. He's deliberately fucking around.

I'm reading all types of retarded shit on Facebook. And comparing BLM to the White Nationalists is like comparing apples to concrete.

8/13/2017 9:13:51 PM

Chilling short video with stats on rise in right wing hate groups since Trump
https://www.facebook.com/moveon/videos/10154685844990493/

And this is an amazing pic:

8/13/2017 11:25:01 PM

amazing only in the sense that it completely highlights the disparity between how we treat radical right wing protests vs protests from the left

Compare that above image with this:




One side wants to eliminate and kill brown people for a "superior race," and the other side wants police to stop shooting them willy nilly.

8/14/2017 12:38:04 AM

But, you know, hey...


Many sides....

8/14/2017 12:41:34 AM

8/14/2017 1:11:47 AM

https://twitter.com/travon/status/896749941380587522

The guy recording this gets a little "autistic screeching" at the end but he's still totally right.

8/14/2017 1:21:47 AM

So sad to see a president so afraid of offending his base that he won't say anything. Obama would've already had a presser about it.

8/14/2017 8:52:09 AM

These white nationalists need something to fight. The counter protests don't help I would say.

If they didn't show up, they wouldn't have made any news and nothing would really have happened.

8/14/2017 9:10:56 AM

Yeah and that rape victim shouldn't have been out at the club in that short skirt either.

I mean they both had it coming right?

8/14/2017 9:19:56 AM

comparing a rape victim to an angry mob armed with sticks and bats that were out looking for violence is a bit of a stretch, no?

three groups of assholes from opposite ideologies clashed together and it ended badly. Leftists went to an organized far-right event looking to cause trouble, so are we supposed to act shocked that this was the result?

also, obligatory:

8/14/2017 10:05:17 AM

nazis, they are called nazis

8/14/2017 10:07:47 AM

forgive him, as he's trying to zoom in on grainy videos in an effort to prove why those people deserved to get run over

8/14/2017 10:09:32 AM

Ah, the old "If you're intolerant of bigots, you're a bigot!"

8/14/2017 10:17:15 AM

Quote :

"These white nationalists need something to fight need to be crushed"

This guy was waiting to do this. He could have waited for a BLM protest that would have occurred naturally, but he was too impatient to wait to commit his terrorist act. So instead he martyred someone marching for peace at a nazi rally.

[Edited on August 14, 2017 at 10:54 AM. Reason : ]

8/14/2017 10:52:49 AM

Quote :

"forgive him, as he's trying to zoom in on grainy videos in an effort to prove why those people deserved to get run over"

I'm sure what he really wanted was the crushing force of police and national guard to come in and destroy the counter-protests Erdogan style to let the Nazis assemble in peace. At least based on his past history..

8/14/2017 11:08:11 AM

Quote :

"forgive him, as he's trying to zoom in on grainy videos in an effort to prove why those people deserved to get run over"

there's plenty of videos of these groups attacking each other with sticks. my personal favorite is the flag vs WD40 flamethrower standoff pic. Trying to pass this off as anything remotely peaceful on either side, Nazi or Commie, is laughable.

8/14/2017 11:15:32 AM

what do we hope to accomplish by punching anyone deemed a "nazi"?

8/14/2017 11:17:05 AM

It's really quite amazing that he thinks one side (his side) is entitled to public space and public assembly. And he demands that another side (the other side) is not entitled to that same right

8/14/2017 11:36:35 AM

who is saying that?

8/14/2017 11:44:41 AM

eleusis has quite a long history on here taking the side of extremely unwarranted police strength in the face of peaceful BLM protests. I'd assume him.

(And I'm not talking about actual riots like in Baltimore)

8/14/2017 11:52:11 AM

I'm just looking at his posts on this page, and it's easy to see why he feels the way he does. The left is flat out encouraging people to go out and punch whatever vague definition of "nazi" we're going with. Antifa "counter-protests" have generally amounted to confronting the alt-right with unprovoked violence.

None of that shit is helpful (actually, it's probably very helpful to the alt-right) and I can only see it getting worse.

[Edited on August 14, 2017 at 12:03 PM. Reason : .]

8/14/2017 11:59:37 AM

I disagree with JesusHChrist here on pre-emotive use of violence but "vague definition of nazi?" They were literally chanting blood and soil. Some even had nazi flags.

8/14/2017 12:03:33 PM

"attempted vehicular manslaughter of 20+ people" vs "anti-fa attacking nazis with sticks"

TOTALLY the same

[Edited on August 14, 2017 at 12:08 PM. Reason : .]

8/14/2017 12:03:34 PM

One side openly promoting hate, bigotry and superiority, the other side openly protesting against hate, bigotry and superiority. TOTALLY the same.

If you're intolerant of racists, you're an intolerant bigot!

8/14/2017 12:05:53 PM

Of course there were actual Nazis that showed up. And of course running over people with a car is FAR worse than anything the left did. But you still can't take those instances and paint the entire rally with that picture. It's not helpful to misrepresent your enemy.

8/14/2017 12:07:13 PM

Quote :

"One side openly promoting hate, bigotry and superiority, the other side openly protesting against hate, bigotry and superiority. TOTALLY the same. If you're intolerant of racists, you're an intolerant bigot!"

Hi, not saying we need to tolerate racism. But if you don't tolerate speech, you foster movements like this. You can't suppress thought, you can only combat it with thought.

There's a reason why the ACLU has, and continues to, defend the alt-right's freedom of speech.

[Edited on August 14, 2017 at 12:10 PM. Reason : .]

8/14/2017 12:08:32 PM

Ok. They were Nazis or White Supremacists. Is that more inclusive. I have zero idea what path you're going down here. These aren't your normal conservative tea-party protesters.

Also, this now:
http://kfor.com/2017/08/14/man-arrested-by-fbi-agents-after-allegedly-planning-to-bomb-building-in-downtown-oklahoma-city/amp/

[Edited on August 14, 2017 at 12:10 PM. Reason : And again I think pre-emptive violence only makes it worse ]

8/14/2017 12:09:37 PM

The nazis went to the march with shields, and armed militias in fatigues. They openly attacked minorities. Oh, and a vehicle was used and attempted to kill about 30 people.

I'm not promoting violence. But I'm not condemning self defense, either.

And I'm sure as fuck not going to tell people to just stay home and let nazis march through their town un-opposed

[Edited on August 14, 2017 at 12:16 PM. Reason : ]

8/14/2017 12:14:28 PM

Quote :

"But you still can't take those instances and paint the entire rally with that picture. It's not helpful to misrepresent your enemy."

what do you think the makeup of the rally was?

8/14/2017 12:21:36 PM

It seems like an extreme sensitivity to anything that could be misconstrued as identity politics. In this case, calling it a neo-nazi and white supremacist rally is simply confirming what they profess literally to be.

8/14/2017 12:25:00 PM

Okay, you guys are correct about the makeup of this rally, but it's beside the point.

We have a large portion of the left who thinks our anthem should be "punch nazis", and a sizeable portion that is following through. When that is the standard for counter-protest, violence is to be expected from both sides.

8/14/2017 12:27:00 PM

^ There's a clear difference between violence and self defense.

These guys absolutely should have gotten the shit kicked out of them

8/14/2017 12:44:04 PM

I'm not against self defense, and I'm not defending ANYONE on the right or the left who chose unprovoked violence. Maybe the nazis started it, maybe antifa started it, doesn't matter. I just think it's important to push back on the "punch nazis" garbage. It's an easy enough thing for us to do. Let's not give them any more fuel.

[Edited on August 14, 2017 at 12:51 PM. Reason : .]

8/14/2017 12:50:08 PM

It absolutely does matter who started it

We know who started it. We know who instigated it. And we know escalated it to deadly force

[Edited on August 14, 2017 at 12:57 PM. Reason : ]

8/14/2017 12:56:48 PM

that's damn close to a "both sides" argument

8/14/2017 12:57:36 PM

Quote :

"It absolutely does matter who started it We know who started it."

Did I miss something? How do we know?

And my other point is - if they had not seen the left encouraging violence on a regular basis, would this have happened?

8/14/2017 12:59:53 PM

Yeah..apparently you missed the video where a white supremacist drove over a group of people

8/14/2017 1:01:27 PM