Yep. Same blonde who introduced him and helped pick out his clothes in episode 2.

11/21/2016 9:14:31 AM

Took me a minute to even realize who the blonde hostage was and why he knew her - still not certain it confirms the William = MIB theory, but after last week's - "what door" moment with Bernard - I guess this show is capable of just spelling things out for the viewers.

I, too, have wondered how such low level techs could so easily escape scrutiny of QA when making changes to the hosts. With all the other safeguards in place seems like what they've done would set off all sorts of alarms. Only thing I could figure was the disruption being caused by Ford new narrative and Theresa's death may have QA overloaded.

As much as HBO likes to recycle actors (the new Clem), I almost expected Ford to tell Charlotte you come at the king, you best not miss while they were examining Theresa's body.

[Edited on November 21, 2016 at 10:53 AM. Reason : ...]

11/21/2016 10:26:57 AM

Yeah I'm not certain that confirms the MIB = William theory. Not yet at least.

11/21/2016 11:20:34 AM

I really don't want that theory to be true and I'm still holding out hope on that

11/21/2016 11:22:16 AM

eh, william was really the only character that interacted with the blonde, so I can't see where MIB would make that comment if it wasn't in reference to something we've seen. Who knows how many narratives the park used her in, but it seems like a pointless bit of dialogue if he's referring to an encounter that we haven't seen from like 10 years ago or something. Possible, sure, but not likely, I don't think.

[Edited on November 21, 2016 at 11:27 AM. Reason : .]

11/21/2016 11:24:03 AM

I think it can be reasonable assume that the blonde woman played initial host to plenty of people who come to the park. You could maybe even argue that more people are familiar with her than almost any other host

That said, I'm not saying I don't believe that theory is wrong, I'm just saying I don't want it to be right. There are too many minor inconsistencies with it that will make me upset at what's either at best sloppy writing or at worst intentionally misleading statements just to throw people off that trail

11/21/2016 11:27:39 AM

I should have stayed away from reddit, now I am definitely not getting any work done today. I didn't realize the original movie had multiple parks - RomeWorld and MedievalWorld. I thought something was off about the Minotaur guy with horns Teddy and MIB fought and the people who popped up in the shadows after Teddy gets stabbed. Maybe this is where next season goes.

11/21/2016 11:41:03 AM

Yeah I've been avoiding Reddit because of stuff like that

11/21/2016 2:41:11 PM

Just watched last nights episode, I wouldn't say the William = MIB theory is 100% confirmed, but it is looking a lot more likely, and even if he is not the MIB, it does appear his story is taking place in the past compared to the MIBs story

11/21/2016 6:37:31 PM

someone remind me, what are William and Delores looking for again? Seems like they are wandering around aimlessly

I'm getting tired of the Mauve storyline, mostly because the techs are the worst. Like, while she is back in the park, why can't the techs just ask to be switched to another area/host? Are they the only techs who are allowed to work on her?

Anthony Hopkins and Ed Harris are carrying this show. Such badass actors

11/22/2016 8:45:26 AM

DROD900 said:

Quote :

"someone remind me, what are William and Delores looking for again? Seems like they are wandering around aimlessly"

They had been traveling with El Lazo to deliver the stolen nitro to the front. Dolores dreamed about a canyon and sketched it while they were traveling. When the Confederados ambushed the train, the three of them fled through Ghost Nation territory. They evaded the Confederados and found themselves looking at the exact canyon Dolores had dreamt. Dolores and William decided to split from El Lazo, who warned them about the unknown territory they were entering.

Dolores wants to explore a place she didn't even know was real. She suspects that home or something like it waits for her, and there's still the matter of the visions that are calling her. William is following Dolores on her quest, because he didn't even know who he was before her. They don't know exactly what they're looking for, but they aren't looking aimlessly. Not all those who wander are lost.

Side note:

Quote :

"Mauve"

It's Maeve. I don't get why everyone thinks her name is a color that isn't even pronounced like her name. The names aren't that hard, guys, come on.

11/22/2016 8:56:20 AM

you know who I meant, but I'll try to be better in the future for you frosh

11/22/2016 9:00:06 AM

I am rather certain that there is a scene where Bernard tells Dolares, something along the lines of "let me tell you about a maze"

11/22/2016 9:42:54 AM

Deloreus

11/22/2016 10:25:54 AM

Quote :

"I'm getting tired of the Mauve storyline, mostly because the techs are the worst. Like, while she is back in the park, why can't the techs just ask to be switched to another area/host? Are they the only techs who are allowed to work on her?"

i agree that the techs seem cartoonishly stupid compared to everything else that's going on, but i don't have a problem with it. i'm assuming they're probably assigned to her, and they'd probably need a good reason for switching, which would probably draw scrutiny to their activities that could get them fired. felix was doing something with that bird, and sylvester was letting people fuck the hosts, right? so even if they had an excuse to have maeve assigned to someone else, she would probably still be able to get them fired and maybe trick someone else into helping her. maybe sylvester will give up next week now that he has a visible scar on his neck from having his throat slashed and tell management everything and leave before things get any worse. who knows.

Quote :

"Anthony Hopkins and Ed Harris are carrying this show. Such badass actors"

i disagree. i think the actors playing hosts are doing a much better job than those 2. not saying they're bad, but i mean, bernard's reactions to realizing he's a host, abernathy in episode 1, diloris shifting in and out of her programmed persona and analysis mode, literally all of maeve's scenes...are we watching the same show?

11/22/2016 3:47:43 PM

Can I just throw in how good delooreuseses father was in the 1st episode. That might have been the best performance I've seen all year for any show.

11/22/2016 4:07:57 PM

Can someone remind me why the technicians are doing all this stuff for Maeve? She had some dirt on them initially yeah but why couldn't they just clear her memory or something?

11/22/2016 4:21:03 PM

^^^ Seems pretty damn clear to me that she's got no problem killing anyone on a whim. So yeah, were I in their shoes I'm pretty sure I'd report her instead of risk being killed by a sentient machine.

11/22/2016 4:39:36 PM

Quote :

"She had some dirt on them initially yeah but why couldn't they just clear her memory or something?"

They were going to but Felix chickened out. He sees her as some kind of AI that's become awakened/alive, it would be murder to him.

11/22/2016 4:41:35 PM

as stupid as felix seems, i think he's actually kind of interesting too. there might be other shows or movies that have explored this idea already and may handle it better than westworld will, but showing empathy/compassion/whatever towards robots when they aren't real life as we know life to be is probably going to be an issue in the future. i felt worse for bernard after he killed theresa than i did for the human that was killed even though she was just following orders.

granted, it's a tv show and it isn't real, but i know as a human that i should probably side with the human in the show instead of the robot. kind of makes you think how you'd feel if we had robots around and you saw a person abusing one. would you care, or would you be more like sylvester? seems like it'd be easy to draw a line, but i've also heard studies that show that an overwhelming majority of people who play video games where you're faced with moral choices often end up choosing to be good rather than evil, and that's not too far off from this.

11/22/2016 4:56:31 PM

Quote :

"Anthony Hopkins and Ed Harris are carrying this show. Such badass actors"

Hey, I agree they're both great, especially Hopkins, but also agree with dingus everyone in the show is contributing. That scene early on with Abernathy, Delurres' dad, gave me chills. And the fact the host actors are performing totally nude for a lot of the show just adds to the performance imo.

https://youtu.be/SfkqGyx-rEw

11/22/2016 6:16:39 PM

I guess going into the show, when I saw Hopkins and Harris in the cast, I assumed they would play minor roles, but they have been exceptional so far. The more I think about it though, I agree that Bernard, Duhlorus, Maeve, William have all been played really well. The techs though, fuck them

11/22/2016 7:43:37 PM

Duhlorus
Delurres
Delooreus
Deloreus
Dolares

lol


ores

11/22/2016 10:54:57 PM

What the hell is going on. Can't decide if this show is great or stupid. A lot of moving pieces at the moment..

11/28/2016 6:58:19 AM

SPOILERS






Okay, NOW I feel like we have confirmation that William's timeline is definitely in the past. Also, what is his deal. He definitely seems obsessed with the robot, to the point of fucking up his standing in real life.

11/28/2016 9:16:55 AM

Will need to go into analysis mode to process last night's episode just completed.

************ SPOILERS ****************





So Bernard = Arnold confirmed. Duhlerres killed Arnold theory also confirmed. And the multiple timeline theory has to be confirmed now, right? We still don't know if Elsie is dead or alive - although I'm leaning towards dead not that I think it matters to the story.

11/28/2016 9:27:47 AM

What the fuck, there was a theory that Delores killed Arnold? I feel like someone who had seen season 1 just leaked everything.

But re: William = MIB, what happened when the MIB found her in the church? That seemed to be during William's timeline considering what she was wearing

11/28/2016 11:37:02 AM

Spoilers - Although I'm probably so far off not sure it matters.

Not sure if it would fit, but the MIB talks about how his wife saw the darkness in him or something along those lines. If William = MIB, then would it potentially make sense that William goes nuts on his first visit to this place. He kills all those people and is "learning to play the game." And enjoying it, along with his robot passion. Eventually he'll leave, reconnect with his real world wife and get married(and rich somehow along the way). He then pays to keep the place going, and his real world wife sees the darkness in him, as we've watched William go from this innocent tool to slaughtering everyone. Maybe the scene with Dolores in the church is him coming back to kill her because she ruined his life.

But the issue with anything having to do with William's timeline being in the past is they got to the church a few episodes ago and it was buried under dirt and just the top sticking out..when he says to Dolores we need to leave this place or something like that. So it would seem that if his timeline was in the past the church wouldn't be buried under all that dirt..?

I dunno.

11/28/2016 11:40:23 AM

Yea, MIB showing up with Dolres in same clothes she has on with William is weird. But these hosts can have so many visual hallucinations its hard to tell if what we are seeing in real.

11/28/2016 1:14:59 PM

When Billy's future brother in law stabbed Dolores and showed him her insides, there were mechanical/metal parts. MIB made a comment to that one guy when he was slicing him open that they "used to be mechanical insides" or something along those lines, but have since been upgraded to be more human like. That's a definite hint of Billy being in the past.

Weird thing about Bernard = Arnold though, it seems that people know that Arnold died. It has been mentioned by people before. So then at some point Bernard shows up looking exactly like him. So I guess all the workers in the park knew that Bernard was a robot the whole time and just didn't tell him (or he was somehow programmed to ignore it)?

11/28/2016 2:09:40 PM

Didn't the earlier photo of Arnold and Ford show only Forde and the Host in the middle. Making it look like the host was Arnold?

Did anyone know what Arnold looks like?

11/28/2016 2:23:05 PM

^ Wondered about that too - Arnold being a major part of the park, but no one noticing Bernard is a replica. And Ford even has a picture of Arnold on his desk - to be sure he has visitors in his office who would notice that photo? Might have to go back and watch though - maybe he pulled that photo out of his desk. I'm assuming all questions will be answered in the finale though.

11/28/2016 2:29:46 PM

Also I missed that the picture of William's fiancee is the same picture that is dug up by Dolores' dad in the first episode that drives him crazy. So that confirms the two timelines, plus all the robots William kills are all the mechanical old style.

The cutting of dolores doesn't mean old timeline for sure, as we know they've kept old hosts going. But it certainly looks like if William isn't the MIB it is two different timelines.

11/28/2016 2:34:38 PM

I take back what I said earlier about Elsie's death not mattering since everything matters in this show. Definitely thinking she's alive now based on the scene with Stubbs this week getting attacked by the Ghost Nation - otherwise I think we would have seen a body by now.

11/28/2016 4:41:18 PM

I don't know wtf is going on anymore.

It seems like the MIB is trying to figure out the missing piece to make the AI start self reinforcing and gain consciousness and it has something to do with the "tragic backstory" piece. He's not necessarily a horrible person but he does what needs to be done to spur this tragic backstory that ultimately makes them human out of a respect for Arnold? That's the missing piece Arnold wasn't able to figure out before he died or maybe it backfired somehow and that's how he got killed by Dolores. Maybe Ford had Dolores kill Arnold.

The MIB guy is a top board member and seems indifferent to whether Ford stays or goes at this point, which is puzzling. Whatever he's after should seem to set things in motion that Ford won't be able to stop.

I just don't know anymore. I don't see the multi timeline thing though or how William = MIB.

11/28/2016 11:34:01 PM

The multiple timeline idea at this point is hard to ignore/not see. Whether MIB = William is still to be seen but the photograph is a strong indication of multiple timelines, Dolores in multiple outfits(flashbacks and forward), the fact that all the robots William slaughters are the old mechanical style, and that the MIB sees the host that greets William originally at the train station lying on the ground beat up and says, "You again? I thought they would have retired you by now." All those strongly point to MIB more current timeline and William a past timeline.

11/29/2016 6:30:40 AM

Just search either of those topics in youtube and you'll find plenty of evidence supporting both theories, especially the William = MIB theory.

Remember when people used to just watch tv and then go about their business instead of immediately running to the internet to put up a video on youtube analyzing the episode we all just watched? I guess I Love Lucy and Gunsmoke weren't quite as complicated as Westworld though.

11/29/2016 6:41:27 AM

No, I don't remember that stupid bullshit, because it never happened. People have been discussing television shows since television first aired. How you gonna rock up in this thread like nobody ever talked about who shot J.R., you utter fucking child?

11/29/2016 8:12:41 AM

Very astute point. My apologies for detracting from the main discussion.

11/29/2016 8:32:22 AM

Quote :

"Didn't the earlier photo of Arnold and Ford show only Forde and the Host in the middle. Making it look like the host was Arnold? Did anyone know what Arnold looks like?"

When we first saw that photo we were looking at it from Bernard's POV. Bernard knew it was an older photo. I'm guessing Ford didn't want him confused and thus he was programmed not to see Arnold in the photo (just like he couldn't see the door in Ford's private house).

Quote :

"Wondered about that too - Arnold being a major part of the park, but no one noticing Bernard is a replica. And Ford even has a picture of Arnold on his desk - to be sure he has visitors in his office who would notice that photo? Might have to go back and watch though - maybe he pulled that photo out of his desk. I'm assuming all questions will be answered in the finale though. "

All I can think is that, since the park has been up and running for 30 years, when they did a big staffing shift Ford brought Bernard online. Seems feasible, although with social media you would think that Arnold's face would be somewhat famous given his achievements. Though if he died very early on, perhaps not?

11/29/2016 9:00:14 AM

Would the staff at the park know/care that he was a host?

Maybe Ford just told them Bernard is created after my good friend and he'll be helping out around here. Treat him like any other employee.

[Edited on November 29, 2016 at 11:19 AM. Reason : .]

11/29/2016 11:19:09 AM

Yes, him being a host created by Ford would be relevant info. For example, I don't think Theresa would have been sleeping with him while engaging in espionage behind Ford's back if she knew he was a host created by Ford.

11/29/2016 11:22:53 AM

Maybe they didn't tell her and because there was an office pool going around betting how long it would take the new girl to realize she was sleeping with a robot.

11/29/2016 12:18:23 PM

One of Bernard's flashbacks gave me the impression that Theresa was also a robot.

11/29/2016 1:17:53 PM

I was getting extremely fatigued with the Mauve storyline. Breath of fresh air last episode was.

Quote :

" Remember when people used to just watch tv and then go about their business instead of immediately running to the internet to put up a video on youtube analyzing the episode we all just watched?"

This annoys me as well. On the other hand, I like going on AV Club to read the synopsis and a few comments. However, I'm more interested in the critical break down of the episode than people endlessly discussing theories. The more mysterious the better.

11/29/2016 1:56:53 PM

i thought it was that arnold's mind was in bernard, not that they physically looked the same, so why would there be a question about bernard in the office?

11/30/2016 10:51:44 AM

Based on Dolorris flashbacks of conversations with Arnold and based on early photo of Ford/Ford's father/Arnold shown during the reveal in last episode, seems to me Bernard was an actual physical replica of Arnold not just his mind in the host Bernard.

[Edited on November 30, 2016 at 11:36 AM. Reason : ...]

11/30/2016 11:36:16 AM

^^You thought wrong. But I don't think anyone that works there now knew Arnold, most probably don't even know he existed

[Edited on November 30, 2016 at 11:39 AM. Reason : $$$]

11/30/2016 11:39:03 AM

On a re-watch of one of the episodes Ford makes a statement to Bernard of something along the lines of "got rid of all traces of Arnold in the Parks record". I've just been assuming that statement along with 30 years later is why no one recognizes him.

11/30/2016 11:41:24 AM

^ I don't recall that statement. Do you remember which episode it came from?

11/30/2016 11:47:04 AM