why do all the good games coming out have to be in-between hardware refreshes

8/29/2011 2:12:49 PM

so is 2 x GTX 570 the direction to go right now?

i want to max games like BF3 and Skyrim at 1920x1200

8/29/2011 9:21:19 PM

I am maxing out at 1400x900

6 cores are for playing computer chess. Chess Programs are one of the few things that every single core you have to the fullest (at least often times).

Although I did only end up getting the quad though. I decided that I will build a machine exclusively for chess early next year, so thats when I will get a 6 core or whatever is baller at that time.

8/29/2011 9:40:09 PM

^^All depends on the money. Can go 2 560s, 570s, 580s or 590s depending on how much you want to spend. Realistically 2 560s should be fine for almost anything at 1920 by 1200. Spend more if you want to future proof.

Just remember 2 cheaper cards (560's) will beat a 580 and come close to the performance of a 590 for far cheaper. So it's really all about how much you want to spend.

8/29/2011 9:44:22 PM

i guess i need to do some research and determine what 2x of the 5xx line is the best bang for the buck. (i.e 2x560 vs 2x570)

8/29/2011 9:57:51 PM

^^ this

It's all about your cash flow dog. I'd recommend researching the twin frozr line for any dual card (SLI/Crossfire) before purchasing. They are on average 15-25% faster, and sometimes 40-50% colder than the stock cards, and with several versions at different prices. MSI tweaks FTW.

Here's the top notch twin frozr III 570: http://www.google.com/products/catalog?hl=en&cp=18&gs_id=2k&xhr=t&q=twin+frozr+gtx+570&qe=dHdpbiBmcm96ciBndHggNTcw&qesig=hKSGRMyMmzYg5_HL16hfGA&pkc=AFgZ2tnSHLvPa2ofuLXdcgVLAwsn9LX8_oSXcBZxdqggYYjOczf5PQ8-oUROJAGLdKjrTn-AG-REHtfxVmsbZKyV9SEYrzeiCQ&pq=twin+frozr+cards&gs_upl=&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_cp.&biw=1920&bih=951&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=12934320570944079360&sa=X&ei=ldNcToadDOfl0QH9rpzlAg&sqi=2&ved=0CEMQ8wIwBQ

Back to your original question, definitely check out this site for a card cost comparison: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/gaming-graphics-card-radeon-hd-6870-geforce-gtx-570,2834.html This comparison merely lacks the GTX590 and the HD6990, which aren't even in the discussion anyway, considering you are looking for a cost-effective dual card setup. They are the best of the best cards that came out since January at roughly 800 per card.

If I was in the (300 or less) range for cards, I'd go with 2x twin frozr II 570's in SLI. Even though ATI cards are competitive with Nvidia, they simply lack the Nvidia 3d technology, which rules them out entirely for me.

Personally, I went with twin frozr III 580's in SLI, as they will slay most games/cards for many years to come in 1080P resolution. Even Metro 2033 will be showing 120FPS in FRAPS on my 120Hertz Input Acer monitor.

[Edited on August 30, 2011 at 8:29 AM. Reason : -]

8/30/2011 8:05:52 AM

thanks for the info. Honestly I don't care about 3D tech and I am unbiased in terms of ATI vs Nvidia.

I was looking at 2 x 570 or 2 of these:
http://www.hardocp.com/article/2011/08/29/sapphire_toxic_hd6950_video_card_review/2

8/30/2011 9:04:38 AM

ive got a gts250 1gb. I can run deus ex 3 at max quality but have to take the res down. I'd like to get my performance up for bf3 as well. im thinking a 5870 (impossible to find) or a 6870 in terms of rendering/$/watt is the best out there. am I wrong and does any game actually use 2gb of vram for textures?

8/30/2011 9:24:36 AM

Are you guys using HDTV's for your display, or monitors? To my knowledge, no HDTV will give you FPS refreshing above 60. When you see an HDTV that says 120 Hertz, that's output, not input. You need input 120 hertz for high-end fps gaming.

The Nvidia 3d tech lists a series of displays that will accommodate "over 60" refresh rates. Technically your new bottleneck will be 120 FPS scores in FRAPS, but it's double the standard.

http://www.nvidia.com/object/3d-vision-system-requirements.html

Get a nice monitor that does 120 hertz input, and your FRAPS score will peak at 120, twice the normal refresh. Don't let your display be your new graphical bottleneck. It doesn't make any sense to get a great video card that does over 60 FPS in new games, and then your display tech bottlenecks you to 60 refresh.

http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1555530

Quote :

"Confirmed 60+ Hertz Monitors: Acer V193W - TN -19" - 1440*900 - 75Hz over D-sub LG IPS226 - IPS (e ?) - 22" - 1920x1080 - 76 Hz LG IPS236v - IPS (e ?) - 23" - 1920x1080 - 76 Hz Dell 2209WA - e-IPS - 22" - 1680x1050 - 75Hz (can get 76Hz with custom timings) Dell E2209W - TN - 22" - 1680x1050 - 75Hz Samsung 226BW (A panel) - TN - 22" - 1680x1050 - 77 Hz NEC EA231WMi - e-IPS - 23" - 1920x1080 - 74 Hz over DVI, 83 Hz over DisplayPort Samsung F2380 - c-PVA - 23" - 1920x1080 - 76 Hz Samsung 2333T - c-PVA - 23" - 1920x1080 - 76 Hz Acer HN274H - TN - 27" - 1920x1080 - 120Hz Acer GD245HQ - TN - 24" - 1920x1080 - 120Hz Acer GD235HZ - TN - 23" - 1920x1080 - 120Hz Alienware OptX AW2310 - TN - 23" - 1920x1080 - 120Hz ASUS VG236H - TN - 23" - 1920x1080 - 120Hz ASUS VH242H - TN - 23.6" - 1980z1080 - 75Hz over HDMI BenQ XL2410T - TN - 23.6" - 1920x1080 - 120Hz LG W2363D - TN - 24" - 1920x1080 - 120Hz LG W2363DB - TN - 24" - 1920x1080 - 120Hz NEC F23W2A - TN - 23" - 1920x1080 - 120Hz Samsung 2233RZ - TN - 22" - 1680x1050 - 120Hz ViewSonic VX2265wm - TN - 22" - 1680x1050 - 120Hz ViewSonic VX2268wm - TN - 22" - 1680x1050 - 120Hz"

I bolded the one I have, it's epic, made by ASUS, standard wall-mounted.

[Edited on August 30, 2011 at 9:46 AM. Reason : -]

8/30/2011 9:32:31 AM

but wont it suck if you aren't constantly getting 120 fps? for example, you have a 60hz monitor you can notice a difference between 60 frames and 40 frames

8/30/2011 9:43:40 AM

If my monitor is refreshing at 120 Hertz and I'm doing a constant 88 FPS, it looks phenomenal compared to a 60 hertz hdtv, because I'm perceiving more of the frames. I believe what you are referring to is the "VSYNC" technology option in most games. Simply don't enable it, if you aren't running a constant 120 FPS in FRAPS.

[Edited on August 30, 2011 at 9:52 AM. Reason : -]

8/30/2011 9:48:30 AM

i probably need to see it to understand/appreciate it.

i have a 240hz HDTV, but I usually have to turn it off for the xbox and such as it introduces a bit of lag

8/30/2011 9:53:50 AM

Pretty nice labor day sales going on at the Egg.
http://promotions.newegg.com/neemail/aug-0-2011/labordaysale30/index-landing.html?nm_mc=EMC-IGNEFL083011&cm_mmc=EMC-IGNEFL083011-_-EMC-083011-Index-_-E0-_-PromoWord

8/30/2011 10:00:01 AM

Right, the TruMotion technology actually "adds" frames in order to give the illusion of smoothness. This looks great on Blueray, as it's a "static" output. That's why most HDTV's have a "game mode" on them, in order to disable the input lag. The monitors I listed above are true 120 hertz input, so when you play a FPS game on them, they are in actuality refreshing via the input of the video card. Honestly, these 120 hertz input monitors alone, with even your existing video cards, would make your gaming experience incredibly different.

[Edited on August 30, 2011 at 10:09 AM. Reason : -]

8/30/2011 10:01:13 AM

can you see a difference between 120 and 80-90ish? I hate noticing frame rate drops hence beefing up on video cards

Also -- anyone here have a PCIe 3.0 ready motherboard? Seems like a good idea with Ivy Bridge around the corner? I'm looking at this:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813130610

As you can tell, it's been a while since I was in the market to build a PC

8/30/2011 10:14:05 AM

Yes, I can notice a difference. However, just to reiterate, on this 120 hertz input monitor, the frames look so much better than on any HDTV. It's a very obvious before-and-after when switching between them, with the same video card. Yeah, that's the problem with technology. If you had only waited a few more months, you would be even faster!! My hardware refreshes have more to do with game releases than anything else. My mobo doesn't do PCI Express 3.0 as a result.

[Edited on August 30, 2011 at 10:39 AM. Reason : -]

8/30/2011 10:37:19 AM

damn i was sold on the 120hz idea until Dell dropped the price of their U2412 today to $329

im not convinced that even with two 570s or 6950s ill be able to sustain 120fps on the games I'm building this for (BF3, skyrim, old republic, diablo 3, etc.)....hence an IPS monitor is a better choice

it probably doesn't matter but what do i know

8/30/2011 12:20:05 PM

So would the GTX 560 run Diablo 3, Skyrim and BF3 maxxed out at 1400x900?

So I can use the ISO from here and install on a formatted hard drive and activate it with my student key?

http://www.mydigitallife.info/windows-7-iso-x86-and-x64-official-direct-download-links-ultimate-professional-and-home-premium/

[Edited on August 30, 2011 at 12:46 PM. Reason : /]

8/30/2011 12:33:23 PM

[Edited on August 30, 2011 at 12:46 PM. Reason : /]

8/30/2011 12:46:14 PM

It really depends on the resolution you select. Lower the resolution and you will get the sustained 120. That's why I went with the twin frozr III 580's instead of the cheaper solution, so I can run at 1080P and get all the eye candy too. It's a tradeoff if you are sticking with your cards.

[Edited on August 30, 2011 at 1:09 PM. Reason : -]

8/30/2011 1:08:23 PM

not meant to be critical....but do you really think you will get 120fps constantly in new games like BF3?

I'm asking to determine if I should step up to 580s or whatever or just ignore the 120hz idea.

8/30/2011 2:38:58 PM

Yes, I do, at 1080P resolution. If your question is whether or not I'll get sustained 120 fps at the highest possible resolution (5760x1200 Metro 2033), not yet. Keep in mind, my mobo supports 3 cards in SLI, so it's going to happen for me regardless!

Check out this comparison, and notice that all of these are running at the highest possible resolution in these games, and still getting amazing average FPS. I'm only running my games at 1920 x 1080, so it's small peanuts in comparison.

http://www.hardocp.com/article/2011/06/28/msi_n580gtx_lightning_xe_3gb_sli_video_card_review/

[Edited on August 30, 2011 at 4:00 PM. Reason : -]

8/30/2011 3:56:26 PM

Quote :

"Check out this comparison, and notice that all of these are running at the highest possible resolution in these games"

Yes but not with all the settings turned up.

Quote :

"and still getting amazing average FPS. "

I wouldn't call the upper 30's "amazing fps"

8/30/2011 4:08:19 PM

So i have a Dell 2412M and a Asus VG236HE on the way

one is going back...WHO WILL WIN?

8/30/2011 5:39:41 PM

It shows my card at 41.7 FPS in Metro 2033 at 5760x1200-AAA-16x-AF-Very High in 2x SLI, which far exceeds what I'll be running it at natively. That is pretty amazing if you ask me, not sure where you are getting 30's from?

Check this out too: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzWMEYY2KM8

These guys are getting 50-55 FPS averages in Metro 2033 with Max Settings at 1920x1080. They are only using STOCK gtx580's in SLI, so I'll get even more with my lightning extremes. Not to mention I'll have 3 of them eventually, so I'll be pushing 100+

Turn off sound: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVKpPwnlZHc

[Edited on August 30, 2011 at 7:21 PM. Reason : -]

8/30/2011 7:09:11 PM

Quote :

"It shows my card at 41.7 FPS in Metro 2033 at 5760x1200-AAA-16x-AF-Very High in 2x SLI, which far exceeds what I'll be running it at natively. That is pretty amazing if you ask me, not sure where you are getting 30's from?"

Did you read the review? That is with AA completely turned off. I was referencing the 32.2 FPS average it gets with 4xMSAA. It's not impressive because it's under 60. 120 FPS would be impressive at 5760x1200. My 460's run Metro 2033 maxed out at 40fps for the most part (dips sometimes) at 1920 by 1200. I tried running them at 5760 one time and it wasn't as pleasant. Using three monitors was weird.

Quote :

"Not to mention I'll have 3 of them eventually, so I'll be pushing 100+ "

Do you have a girlfriend?

8/30/2011 8:42:44 PM

oh and depth of field isn't enabled on any of those benchmarks except at the end:

http://www.hardocp.com/article/2011/06/28/msi_n580gtx_lightning_xe_3gb_sli_video_card_review/10

36.1 average FPS maxed out at 2560 by 1600 with $1000+ worth of video card = not impressive when I can get 40+ FPS maxed out at 1920 by 1200 for ~$300 in the same game. The price for performance is horrible even with those video cards.

8/30/2011 9:14:26 PM

OK guys lets not nerd it up here.

8/30/2011 9:24:53 PM

After getting a job, car, GF, and life I realized I only have a couple hours a week to game. Reminds me of this comic:

http://theoatmeal.com/comics/online_gaming

8/30/2011 9:33:34 PM

This is a computer builds thread. No one is demanding that you contribute. Feel free to disagree with the tech I'm using. Nothing about you matters to me, and nothing about me should matter to you.

I'll definitely post my frames once I get all three cards running in SLI and custom overclocked, just to clear things up, but that won't be until probably December.

I'm also considering purchasing another 240G SSD as my main drive, and then nuke my current 120G SSD and make it my cache drive for a 2TB WD. It's going to be about a 4k investment in the end, but it should last me years to come.

[Edited on August 31, 2011 at 9:38 AM. Reason : -]

8/31/2011 9:37:38 AM

I'm just kidding man. I know it's a build thread. Maybe I'm just jealous you have time in your life to do all that.

8/31/2011 10:02:45 AM

I am thinking of going SLI with 2 GTX 560s, but my question is is SLI not all that, is it worth it, 750W PSU enough?

[Edited on August 31, 2011 at 11:00 AM. Reason : /]

8/31/2011 10:46:38 AM

I think I like to game until I hear people spending $500 on video cards, then I realize I don't like to game nearly as much as others

8/31/2011 11:38:05 AM

i think i just like technology

8/31/2011 11:53:50 AM

My love for tech borders on credit default. That's why I don't build a new rig but every 5 years.

8/31/2011 12:12:40 PM

I think my motherboard only does CrossfireX and not SLI

And I am def upgrading to a Bulldozer as soon as they hit the shelf!

[Edited on August 31, 2011 at 2:19 PM. Reason : /]

8/31/2011 2:18:55 PM

It's been about 2 years since I built my last computer, and some of the brands which I used to unquestionably buy (due to lifetime warranties or stock overclocks) are now gone. I could use some "swear by" brands which y'all would recommend. I built many computers using Abit motherboards, and they're gone. I also used more BFGTech graphics cards than I can count, and they're gone as well. I think someone said that EVGA is a good one for lifetime warranty and stock overclock on graphics cards, but I'm also interested in other components. How does Asus fare with motherboards?

I'm really only an amateur builder, as I've never attempted to seriously overclock anything and I've not yet built anything using SLI. I've contemplated doing some water cooled systems in the past, but cost was a dealbreaker. Is it even possible to build something which will run BF3 without a hitch for under $1000? I'm not even talking 1080p or at crazy high resolutions. (Hell, I'm still running 1440 x 900 @ 60hz. on a very non-specialized monitor.)

8/31/2011 4:52:48 PM

Uh, yes.

$1035 after rebates + shipping

Assuming you already have a HDD and a case it's <$1000.

http://secure.newegg.com/WishList/PublicWishDetail.aspx?WishListNumber=14724731

Overclock the dual-6850's in crossfire to 6970 speeds and you'll run BF3 without a hitch EASY.

You need the fast SSD for load times, so be sure to install the game on the SSD along with your operating system.

Gigabyte, ASUS, eVGA, GSkill, Corsair, Crucial, Western Digital, HIS, Sapphire these are all brands I trust.

[Edited on August 31, 2011 at 5:55 PM. Reason : .]

8/31/2011 5:53:14 PM

Thanks for that. Yes, I've also realized recently that having a solid state drive would be a good investment for some games. I'm not an ATI fan, though... Have any good recommendations for nVidia instead?

8/31/2011 6:16:55 PM

I bought two XFX 5770s for my last build last year. I am not terribly impressed given the rampant driver crashes they cause even after a complete reinstall of the OS with the latest drivers.

I've not shopped cards in a while, but is it true what I hear about AMD (ATI) going in the direction of cost effectiveness at the expense of quality/performance? I am leery of going back to Nvidia when the time comes...

8/31/2011 6:32:50 PM

well to be completely honest all i've known is nvidia, i had a brief stint with ATI/AMD and it hasn't been all that great, it's just for the money there is NOTHING that can come even remotely close to the overclocked 6850, consider this you're paying $150 for a comparable card to a $250 graphics card.

the next best nvidia i believe is the 560 in SLI

my upgrade path over the years: ATI 9800PRO -> nVIDIA 6800GS -> 7900 GS -> 8800GTS -> 9800GX2

[Edited on August 31, 2011 at 7:59 PM. Reason : .]

8/31/2011 7:47:22 PM

ATI 9800 128 ---> Nvidia 7950gx2 ---> Nvidia 8800gtx ---> Nvidia 460's in SLI

GO!

8/31/2011 8:00:13 PM

Geforce 2 MX 400 (still running in my parents PC )> ATI 9800 PRO (dead) > Radeon X 800 XT > Nvidia 8800GTS (I killed and replaced with) > Nvidia 8800GTX > Nvidia GTX 275

9/1/2011 7:29:36 AM

Voodoo Banshee -> Geforce3 something or other-> Geforce 6800 -> Geforce 8800GT -> Geforce 250 GTS -> Radeon HD 5850

[Edited on September 1, 2011 at 9:39 AM. Reason : no 2]

9/1/2011 9:34:12 AM

New parts:
Intel 2500K
G.SKILL 2x4gb DDR3
Crucial 64gb SSD
ASRock P67 1155 mobo
Windows 7 x64

Old parts:
Antec case
ATI 4770
2x WD Black 500gb HDD

Still need a PSU. Anybody have any specific recommendations?

9/2/2011 12:28:47 PM

@Flying Tiger: You plan on upgrading the graphics in the future? SLI/crossfire in a few years? Overclocking cpu/gpu? Otherwise, a decent 400-500w will work, almost makes no sense to get not get an 80 plus PSU.

OCZ and cooler master makes some nice cheap and decent psu's that I've had really good luck with in recent years. Antec is always a good bet, but usually still has a bit of a price premium to comparable products. Research your power needs and buy appropriately, you don't need to spend $$$ on a 1k psu if you only plan on utilizing 300 watts, but you also don't want to utilize 100% of the psu.

While they maybe 80plus efficient at the rated output, most PSU's are at their most efficient around 70-80%. It may be common to see name brand psu to have less than 80% efficiency at 60% utilization or below.



--List of GPU's--
Voodoo2 12mb
Matrox G400 16mb
Diamond Viper 770D TNT2 32mb
Geforce2 MX 32mb
Geforce2 GTS 64mb
Geforce4 ti 4400 128mb
Geforce 7600 gt 256mb
Geforce 7900 gs 256mb
EVGA Geforce 8600 gt 512mb
EVGA Geforce 8800 gts 640mb
XFX AMD 5870 1gb

I had a lot of gpu's around the 2000-05 era. skipped a lot from 8800 to 5870 since my 8800 built lasted sooo long. Testament to that gpu.

9/2/2011 1:08:25 PM

any 500W power supply will do with 80 PLUS certification with 3+ year warranty, if the power supply has both of these it should be of quality components. stick with Corsair, CoolerMaster, Thermaltake, Seasonic, FSP Group, XFX, OCZ, Enermax, or Antec for brands.

9/2/2011 1:09:12 PM

oh yeah, Thermaltake makes some good cheap psu's, their stuff is like always on sale. Good value if you don't plan on needing a crazy powerful psu.

9/2/2011 1:10:28 PM

What ssd should I get?? Is the best strategy to put os and games on there and random junk in a conventional hard disk or to only put the os on the SSD or the other way around ??

9/2/2011 4:48:53 PM

OCZ, Crucial, and Corsair are top brands for SSD, personally I'd look at any of the new SATA III 6Gbps drives out there, like the Vertex3...

Put OS & Games on SSD, everything else on a HDD, reason being is the OS & games load a ton of files and you need the super fast read times to decrease your load time of levels if you play any multi-player games.

[Edited on September 2, 2011 at 5:03 PM. Reason : /]

9/2/2011 5:01:14 PM