i may try the 27 inch apple LCD Display

im only concerned that my dual 6950 toxics will not be able to give satisfactory performance at the native resolution

9/11/2011 10:06:57 PM

^^Should have....

While I love my 2408 Ultrasharps I'm finding out that the input lag is pretty bad on them so looking forward to having the option of a TN monitor for gaming.

^Ah it's glossy!!!!

9/11/2011 10:12:12 PM

<3 dat gloss

9/11/2011 10:15:33 PM

Haha JBaz.

Do you have the 2408s too? I just realized it was revision A00 that had the bad input lag. I have a A00 and an A02. Did the little window drag test and sure enough the A00 is noticeably slower than the A02.

9/11/2011 10:20:38 PM

Quote :

"i may try the 27 inch apple LCD Display"

why would you do that?

For the price, I would look else where since it lacks so much of the standard features of other monitors in that class. I mean come on... you can get a last gen 30" dell for about the same price that you can control the rise, fall, pitch and roll of the display. Plus those screens were notorious for coming straight from the factory with the HD yellow tinting feature...

9/11/2011 10:21:56 PM

basically only game in town for glossy IPS

9/11/2011 10:25:03 PM

I guess mine are a00 since it was the original 2408's. When I finally get an actual real job or any job in general, I'll upgrade them. Been looking at the hp 30", but it'll be one of the last things to buy since my priority right now is internet, food, sleep, and trolling. lol

9/11/2011 10:26:27 PM

I'm looking for a recommendation for a case. I have found quite a few that are promising candidates, but what would you guys recommend based on your experience? This is an overclocked system, so excellent ventilation and space are must haves. I don't care about LEDs or anything fancy, just functionality. Also, this will house 2 GTX580 Lightning Extremes in SLI, so it's going to get a little hot, and needs to be very spacious. All my gear is temporarily in a mid-tower right now with just 1 GTX580 LE, and it's hot w/ 7 120mm fans.

I'm also buying this to increase my OC on the processor:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835181016

I know, I know... I've already spent enough, but this is the last leg of my future-proof journey...I swear.

[Edited on September 12, 2011 at 12:01 PM. Reason : -]

9/12/2011 11:55:35 AM

Antec P183
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129174

badass and setup for liquid cooling, i have the P180 and love it, i doubt i'll ever get rid of it.

Similarly I've heard great things about Corsair cases:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811139008

[Edited on September 12, 2011 at 12:37 PM. Reason : .]

9/12/2011 12:33:52 PM

^^in reference to the H80. I used to have an older all-in-one water solution and while it was cool it was loud and wasn't any better than higher end air solutions.

I've got the Noctua NH-D14 and love it. I'd look into something like that instead of water. You can easily get to 5.0ghz on air with a newer Sandybridge.

I just feel like if you're going to go water go all the way and don't half-ass it.

[Edited on September 12, 2011 at 12:34 PM. Reason : s]

9/12/2011 12:34:00 PM

At first glance, I like the corsair a lot, mainly because of some of the reviews of the antec mention GPU length being an issue. My cards are 11.5 inches, and the corsair case can handle up to 12.5 GPU length, while the antec case may require some removal for an SLI setup.

I already ordered the H80. If it turns out to be very noisy, I'll just RMA it. The Noctua has great reviews and I'll definitely look into that, although I saw some reviewers warn about dimensions being an issue. It must be very big? I know it's a little odd to only have the CPU liquid cooled and nothing else, but unless the product doesn't work out, I'll probably stick with it.

9/12/2011 1:01:16 PM

Yeah I almost considered it but decided on the Noctua. It's awesome and yes very big. The clearance from my ram heat sinks and the bottom of the Noctua fans is only a couple mms. Luckily the fans are incredibly easy to take off. The height is also an issue. It's a very tall heatsink. Just barely fit in my case and my case is huge. Works great though.

9/12/2011 2:45:17 PM

had to jump on the 27 Cinema Display...dat gloss was beautiful

but mainly because the newer Thunderbolt one coming is not backwards compatible with existing mini displayports

so basically i'd only be able to use it with new macs only like my macbook...in this case the upgrade is kinda locking you into a unproven tech

9/12/2011 3:17:53 PM

@[user]I'm looking for a recommendation for a case.[/user]: If you are on a budget, I'd look at cooler master HAF cases. I got the cheap 912 case with a 600w psu for 40 or 50 bucks shipped on newegg. the 922 is a little better but mostly similar in size. I like them because they come with a 2.5" drive bay for ssd's now. Although I use a Lian Li lancool case for my main rig that I love. Its tall enough to fit a 3 fan sized radiator inside the top of the case.

@catalyst: I can see the importance of thunderbolt as a fast transfer rate for devices, but for displays, we already have hdmi specs, which are industry standards. Granted thunderbolt is twice the speed of current hdmi, but fuck paying $$$ for their cables. Until we get some crazy insane resolution displays in the next decade, I doubt its worth being an early adopter for this tech since hdmi is already a proven and reliable connection with display port being already implemented on a lot of displays/gpu now days. And display port speeds is close to thunderbolt anyhow.

Hope you don't get the yellow version of the cinema. :p

9/12/2011 5:42:52 PM

@[user] that refers to me by @[user] [/user]

I considered the HAF series, and while I like them, they didn't utilize my existing 7x 120mm fans like Prospero's apt recommendation did.

9/12/2011 5:51:05 PM

lol, yes... no really, I was trying to message the user : I'm looking for a recommendation for a case

lol

9/12/2011 6:24:28 PM

^^^ $70 shipped with 600W PSU and tool-free design:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811322005

[Edited on September 12, 2011 at 6:33 PM. Reason : /]

9/12/2011 6:32:44 PM

1. Cheap construction
2. No liquid cooling grommets
3. No cable management routing
4. Poor ventillation (two case fans over the CPU was case design 10 years ago, now it's impractical)
5. No name PSU is unusable, 1-year warranty, no specs on efficiency or voltage protection or holdup time, plus it probably has cheap caps pretty much risking ALL his $uber components from a shortout or electrical surge.
6. Cheap ass LCD from a calculator.
7. Doesn't appear to have the proper room for a 11.5" graphics card.

And ugly as hell.

[Edited on September 12, 2011 at 6:53 PM. Reason : .]

9/12/2011 6:48:46 PM

This is for people on a very tight budget

9/12/2011 6:51:20 PM

If you are on a tight budget a couple things should be apparent:

a) You aren't running a graphics card over 9" (as such not SLI/Crossfire and thus not requiring a PSU over 420W)
b) You aren't liquid cooling

If those are true, I'd at least recommend going with a brand that's more reputable like CoolerMaster (and that make better PSU's)

$50 AR shipped free
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119210

Although I'd still probably recommend buying a cheap $30 PSU + $30 case with a warranty longer than 1-year

[Edited on September 12, 2011 at 7:01 PM. Reason : .]

9/12/2011 6:58:12 PM

Quote :

"This is for people on a very tight budget"

Seed... that case you posted up would only be worth it at the $20 mark... And then that's a stretch. Come on.. give me a break. You can't find a good deal on a cheap gaming budget case? Without even trying:

Antec 300 ATX mid tower $35 shipped AR & AC
http://slickdeals.net/permadeal/58136

Cooler Master HAF 912 w/ 500w PSU $45 shipped AR (DEAD)
http://slickdeals.net/permadeal/57170

9/12/2011 7:12:43 PM

^that Antec for $35 + $30 Thermaltake (the classic):
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817153023

comes w/ 5-year warranty, it's the tank of cheap PSU's...

you'd be so much better off

9/12/2011 7:43:53 PM

Hahah wow....I emailed tcook@apple.com (Tim Cook) regarding how no one at the Apple stores or online knows compatibility regarding the two 27 inch displays (could old display port models run just the image functionality of the monitor and not the docking station capabilities)

two hours later i got a call from his "executive relations" team that is requesting 24 hours to test several configurations and will get back to me.

Literally no one online or at Apple retail knows how it will work when plugged into a mini displayport. Considering it's the same plug, I imagine there will be a lot of confused consumers if it doesn't work at all.

9/12/2011 9:08:02 PM

yeah, there's a bunch of clueless drones that work at apple stores that don't know shit of what they are selling. I'm sure they get paid 15 an hour to tell you to shove it and buy their crap.

When they started to roll out some of the new monitors that used the mini display port, my boss bought one, got home tried to plug it in and found out that it wouldn't work. This is after he told them exactly what his machine was and what he needed. He ended up wasting half a day talking to their customer service and got no where. Apparently no one ever heard of an adapter. What was their solution? Buy a new mac for your new monitor.

I seriously died laughing every time he tells that story. There was a sense of rage in his eyes that he just wanted to go to the store just so he could visit the kid that sold him the monitor and throw his 10k mac pro at him. lol

9/12/2011 9:34:13 PM

New Egg has the OCZ Solid 3 SLD3-25SAT3-60G 2.5" 60GB SATA III MLC for 55 dollars after 25 dollar mail in rebate on their shell shocker deals right now. I picked up one for my new build I'm about to start. Only 60gb, but for a bootable drive, it's perfect.

9/12/2011 10:56:23 PM

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833320048

I need to install a wireless card so I would have a cord running all over the place, and I was wondering is this a pretty good buy for the money??

9/12/2011 10:57:25 PM

you can get wireless n usb adapters for 10-20 bucks now days. Would probably work just as good. I know cisco's wireless adapters was recently on sale for 12 bucks last month. Always see some sort of adapter on sale since I try to keep my eye out on a cheap good wireless n router.

9/13/2011 3:24:31 AM

Getting a PCIE card would be better for CPU usage, though, since PCIE cards can use interrupts, DMA, and stuff like that. With a USB stick, the computer's CPU will have to push (and pull) all of the bits by itself, reducing system performance and possibly the performance of other USB devices.

9/13/2011 6:09:33 AM

its seedless, he won't see the difference...

9/13/2011 9:17:55 AM

So the Acer hn274h is pretty sweet. Response time, input, 120hz gaming, 3D gaming are all awesome.

As a monitor though it's mediocre. Maybe it's because it's right next to my Ultrasharps but the whites are worse than the ultrasharps, colors aren't as good, and text seems blurry (partially due to the lower DPI).

It's great for gaming but I'm going to have to get used to using it for normal computing. It's just not that sharp. Guess I'm just not used to TN monitors.

9/13/2011 9:35:49 AM

I bet you if you actually use a calibration device, it will look 10x better. Where you at these days?

9/13/2011 9:44:18 AM

^^^ Hey man I can't help that I'm not a computer nerd and ask questions, that's part of what this thread is for, right?

[Edited on September 13, 2011 at 9:50 AM. Reason : /]

9/13/2011 9:45:29 AM

^^Have access to a color munki calibrator. Just haven't gotten around to using it yet. Will report back afterwards.

In regard to those. Do you just set yours to factory then calibrate and just use that profile? I find the profiles it creates are always so dark. I end up turning the brightness back up anyway.

9/13/2011 9:48:09 AM

I wouldn't mind using that calibration profile too if you can link me?

9/13/2011 10:09:29 AM

To create the calibration profile you need an actual calibration device that hangs on your monitor and reads the color output of the monitor.

Spyder is a popular brand for these:

http://spyder.datacolor.com/product-mc-s3elite.php

I can calibrate mine then send you the profile it creates I think. Won't be as accurate as doing it yourself but close.

[Edited on September 13, 2011 at 10:21 AM. Reason : s]

9/13/2011 10:21:21 AM

Wow, that's a pretty penny. I'll wait to see if you get massive image improvements first.

9/13/2011 10:31:52 AM

Calibrating a monitor is more for color accuracy when working with photos or video. Sure it's nice to have accurate colors when gaming or watching a movie but often it's nice to have slightly more vibrant colors for gaming or movies.

I'm more interested consistency across all three monitors.

9/13/2011 10:35:11 AM

It makes sense to own that for a triple monitor setup, no doubt. I'm wondering if it's worth my while considering I'm using just 1 wall-mounted Acer and I don't see any color issues, as I have no previously-calibrated IPS comparison sitting directly next to my TN.

9/13/2011 10:58:33 AM

Pretty....pretty.... pretty fast.

http://techcrunch.com/2011/09/13/amds-new-fx-processor-reaches-world-record-clock-speed/

9/13/2011 11:30:46 AM

Quote :

"Hey man I can't help that I'm not a computer nerd and ask questions, that's part of what this thread is for, right?"

No worries, I think you will be better off with a simple USB wireless N adapter, but just get a good name brand version like cisco. There's been a lot of the "cheap" knockoffs like mertiline crap that gets into these debates on how bad these "adapters" are. It's just the fact that the "cheap" crap tends to overheat and die quickly. Of what I'm told, the cisco ones work great and stay comfy, but you have to really look for deals on them. I'm sure there's other name brand adapters in the same price range that work wonderful too.

As for mamarley's comment, sure PCIE is a better connection platform than usb and the signal-to-noise ration on those devices is probably going to be better as they have a set of real antenna's, but its a moot point since we aren't hooking up a $4,000 1TB SSD PCIE device. This is a simple wireless adapter that doesn't need to be taking up space, specially when a usb alternative can be had for half the price.

In terms of "reducing system performance", show me realistic numbers of how much .001% performance drop using a usb device will have compared to the PCIE numbers. Processing power in current generations of CPU's is MORE THAN ENOUGH, to handle the simple usb requests. If there is any "lag" or delay in the system, I highly doubt any human will be even remotely capable of seeing it. Leave theory and imaginative synthetic bench marking at home kiddies.

Quote :

"Calibrating a monitor is more for color accuracy when working with photos or video. "

Basically this, but I like my color accuracy for games and movies since its what the creators intended me to see. I have the Spyder3 Elite since it came out years ago and been happy with it since. It's been nice since I can still use it on win7 platforms without upgrading (although they want a few bucks for the v4 software). Honestly, I kind of wished I went with an X-Rite system since I like their software over Spyder's, but I ended up getting mine for $180 used. Almost 4 or 5 years old now.

Quote :

"In regard to those. Do you just set yours to factory then calibrate and just use that profile? I find the profiles it creates are always so dark. I end up turning the brightness back up anyway."

Yes, you just set your monitor to factory defaults with 50% brightness and contrast. Depending on how sophisticated your calibrator is, it will change the color output as well as contrast and brightness. Some of the more cheaper calibrators will only change color, so you have to do brightness and contrast by hand/eye. By turning the brightness back up after a calibration, you are misrepresenting the accuracy of your grey and black tones (aka. gamma).

The perfect brightness level IMHO for general use is around 180-200 cd/m^2, which is usually 1/2 the brightness levels of most current monitors, but the industry standard is D65, which is set at 120 cd/m^2, for accurate color representations and proper gamma control for print reproduction. But in truth, it depends on the ambient level of your computer room. If you are in a well lit area, you might need to beef up the brightness (140) compared to being in a completely darken room (100). I usually have a light source pointed at my wall behind my computer monitor all the time to help with my perception and a nice level of ambient light.

The brightness, contrast and colors between all my monitors are consistent, which is nice when I have a ton of white webpage screens open at the same time. Otherwise, it would drive me apeshitcrazy.

[Edited on September 13, 2011 at 11:41 AM. Reason : ]

9/13/2011 11:38:20 AM

Quote :

"Pretty....pretty.... pretty fast. http://techcrunch.com/2011/09/13/amds-new-fx-processor-reaches-world-record-clock-speed/"

Nice, but as far as I know no other record used liquid helium, so I'd say they had a slight edge considering they only got to 8.0 with liquid nitrogen... also consider this, the previous records were hit with a Celeron D.... should give you an indication of how irrelevant frequency is nowadays on "real-world" cpu performance.

http://valid.canardpc.com/records.php

[Edited on September 13, 2011 at 12:03 PM. Reason : .]

9/13/2011 12:02:09 PM

We talked about this already I think but that doesn't make any sense. Frequency is still very important in real-world performance. Everything is based upon the frequency of a chip. From rendering video to processing photos to gaming. Almost everything computers are used for is affected by frequency. I can notice the difference in 200mhz when I do a Vlookup in Excel.

Or am I missing something?

9/13/2011 12:57:33 PM

So you are saying a 2.8ghz P4 is the same as the 2.8ghz i7?

9/13/2011 1:41:39 PM

Of course not. Within the same generation. The market isn't saturated with THAT many generations of chips. For example generally a vendor will use i5's for mid range, i7's for top tier, and i3's or ULV's for ultra portables.

Almost all current business laptops are i5's. Within that, frequency is incredibly important. You want a computer with a faster frequency. Sure you want the latest generation but within that generation there's going to be a huge performance difference in a 1.8 i5 compared with a 2.8 ghz i5.

If you're buying a computer it's rare you have a choice in what generation chip you want. The thing you DO have a choice in is speed. Intel even markets towards this with their turbo boost feature and you can pay $$ more for 300-400 more mhz. People notice it. Speed is all about frequency.

9/13/2011 2:12:51 PM

I was going to post, "insert neodata686 B&M about frequency here"... guess i should have.

Quote :

"Speed is all about frequency."

STOP telling people this, it's completely misleading. If you're talking about a 3.0Ghz i7 vs. a 3.3Ghz i7, well than no shit it's faster it's the same EXACT architecture.

Maybe 15 years ago back in the day of single-threading sure. But in the age of multi-threading and multi-channels, it's not about frequency so much is how the task is handled by the CPU

Quote :

"So you are saying a 2.8ghz P4 is the same as the 2.8ghz i7?"

Yes, that's what he's implying. He can't say that I'm right, the closest he can say is that he's right "within the same generation" which is conceding that no, not all CPU's with the same frequency are equally as fast, which if SPEED IS ALL ABOUT FREQUENCY would mean that he's contradicting himself.

He's got serious CPU envy or in serious denial or something, I don't know why he keeps bringing this shit up.

[Edited on September 13, 2011 at 2:31 PM. Reason : /.]

9/13/2011 2:21:19 PM

Sorry, I was trolling...

9/13/2011 2:29:29 PM

I know, I just can't let it go.

9/13/2011 2:30:49 PM

Quote :

"STOP telling people this, it's completely misleading. If you're talking about a 3.0Ghz i7 vs. a 3.3Ghz i7, well than no shit it's faster it's the same EXACT architecture."

No it's not. That's all I'm talking about. Looking at the same chip at 2 different frequencies. And yes the higher the frequency the faster the chip. Most current laptops use only a few iterations of chips and the biggest contributor to performance is the frequency of that chip.

Quote :

"Yes, that's what he's implying. He can't say that I'm right, the closest he can say is that he's right "within the same generation" which is conceding that no, not all CPU's with the same frequency are equally as fast, which if SPEED IS ALL ABOUT FREQUENCY would mean that he's contradicting himself."

Your entirely confused then. I never even implied this. I think you're over complicating things.

Quote :

"He's got serious CPU envy or in serious denial or something, I don't know why he keeps bringing this shit up."

On the contrary. 1. you brought it up and 2. You're the one focused on the architecture of the chip.

If we're talking about a series of laptops with the same chip performance is always gauged by the frequency of the chip. That's ALL I'm saying. It's like you like to argue point C and I'm trying to argue point A to B. You're completely missing the point.

Quote :

" Then I had to explain why architecture and die-size makes a bigger difference in speed than just frequency alone."

You completely misunderstood that argument too. That was implied. Again you were arguing point C when I was addressing an entirely different point.

I don't want to derail the conversation again but you started it with:

Quote :

"should give you an indication of how irrelevant frequency is nowadays on "real-world" cpu performance. "

I just think that statement is incredibly misleading. You're downplaying the relationship between clock speed and performance. All I'm saying is the faster the clock speed the faster the performance on a chip-by-chip basis.

9/13/2011 2:33:52 PM

I think you both are arguing on the same side and its pretty amusing.

9/13/2011 2:37:06 PM

Yeah I'm just arguing semantics. Seeing how many different ways I can say one thing.

9/13/2011 2:54:14 PM