There were 3 Chevy Volts in my work parking lot this morning. They were doing test drives but the line was really long. They looked good though (ignoring all the decals and crap they had loaded on these testers).

10/20/2010 4:39:58 PM

I just wanna know how much your power bill is going to go up after charging this car on it every night?

10/20/2010 5:23:03 PM

hopefully (and very likely) no more than your gasoline bill (you know what i mean) goes down.

10/20/2010 5:53:06 PM

$40 a month for unlimited charging in Michigan (a very good deal for those guys), if you go that route, or you can go the normal cost on a per-KWh and it'd be $0.086 (current standard rate for Duke Energy) x ~8 (battery will never go below 1/2 charge before generator kicks in) = $0.70 per night for a fully or nearly fully drained battery. That will get you at least 40 miles according to all first drive and GM estimates. This will be a little different if you are on a peak vs off-peak billing

[Edited on October 20, 2010 at 6:08 PM. Reason : cx]

10/20/2010 6:05:10 PM

Quote :

"I guess at this point, we're just arguing over what constitutes calling something a hybrid. I don't think it was originally billed as one, and now it should be. Either way, I don't think it's that big of a deal, but I'm not sure that calling the people that do care ignorant is exactly fair or truthful."

Fair enough.

If, as Carzin mused on the previous page, you effectively pay $200 a month look at what you're driving. A compact car that weighs 3700lbs with a cheap interior. Unless you think oil is pure evil I don't see the point in getting this over a Honda Civic? :shrugs:

10/20/2010 10:37:46 PM

Oil may be evil but the volt doesn't exactly run on unicorn farts.

10/21/2010 9:15:52 AM

I forgot to mention that there is a great article about the Volt on http://www.autoblog.com right now. They had one to drive around in for 2 days.

10/21/2010 9:40:23 AM

Yet the big question remains: Can the Volt go mainstream? GM has said it intends to build 45,000 Volts per year starting in 2012. That's not a small number of cars, not when they're priced at $40,280. Even if you deduct potential tax credits of at least $7,500 from the Federal government, or opt for the $350/month lease "deal," this is a costlier-than-average car.

The Volt has a 9.3-gallon gas tank, and GM states that the range in extended-range mode is approximately 310 miles. That means the Volt should return around 33 miles per gallon, after its EV range of roughly 40 miles is exhausted. And if you get in your fully-charged Volt and drive it until the tank runs dry, you'll see about 38 miles per gallon overall. Given that GM had been bandying about a 50 mpg number – not-coincidentally matching the Prius – this is nothing short of disappointing.

10/21/2010 11:04:32 AM

lol what a fucking spectacular failure

10/21/2010 11:18:14 AM

Wonder how much juice the AC uses, also how does the heat work when its on electric mode? During that time there is no hot coolant to pull heat off of.

10/21/2010 11:20:25 AM

^^^Not if you view this car as something that can be driven in EV only mode for a daily commute, but doesn't restrict you from taking on a long trip out of state over the weekend, or something along those lines.

If that's what you want this car for, it's perfect. And there's nothing else on the market that can do that.

10/21/2010 11:49:21 AM

this doesnt seem like its anything new. Just a prius with a bigger battery, 15k more in cost, worse mpg, and got the govt to help them out with 7500 to help them sell it.

Outside of the greenies, and maybe govt, who would buy it?

Sad because I was hoping the market would move more in this direction.

10/21/2010 12:35:05 PM

GM has a long, proud history of killing the electric car.

10/21/2010 2:29:30 PM

Quote :

"And if you get in your fully-charged Volt and drive it until the tank runs dry"

I don't think most people drive 300 miles without going home THAT often. Personally, I drive less than 40 miles/day, and that includes driving to lunch. That means I'd use barely any gas if I charged it in my garage each night. Seems like a pretty good deal.

Quote :

"Outside of the greenies, and maybe govt, who would buy it?"

People with money? You do realize that one of the first publicly available electric cars (Tesla Roadster) cost over $100k and was a 2 seater? New technologies are typically expensive and get cheaper as they go.

If you make a lot of longer drives, go buy an efficient diesel or something.
If you want electric for a little cheaper, wait for the Nissan Leaf.

10/21/2010 6:12:14 PM

Quote :

"You do realize that one of the first publicly available electric cars (Tesla Roadster) cost over $100k and was a 2 seater? "

Yeah, and that car was made to be a toy and not much else.

10/21/2010 6:25:22 PM

^exactly. A 100k dollar electric sports car has a certain limited amount of buyers in mind.

A 40k prius that wants to appeal to a much broader market to middle income earners, I just think its going to miss its mark. Hopefully it doesnt stop development of these type of cars. I have read about a company that wants to develop "gas stations" for electric cars in which you would drive in leave your battery and put in a fully charged one and be on your way... shocker the auto industry is fighting that, but, to me, that seems like a great way to rapidly grow the electric segment.

my commute is about 70 miles a day, so im out of this segment.

[Edited on October 21, 2010 at 7:57 PM. Reason : .]

10/21/2010 7:56:29 PM

^funny you describe the Volt as a $40k Prius. It's possible to option out a Prius to that price (as hilarious as that sounds)

10/21/2010 9:11:56 PM

Quote :

"Envision Solar "trees" to charge the Chevy Volt According to Envision Solar president Desmond Wheatley, "every electric vehicle is the equivalent of one or two single-family residences in terms of impact on the electric grid." Looking to reduce that impact, General Motors has partnered with Envision Solar to provide solar charging stations for the Chevrolet Volt at GM dealers. The stations serve a dual purpose: to provide shade and a charge. The shade it provides actually assists the charging function. Wheatley says that electric vehicles, when first plugged in, use 80 percent of the electricity to cool the battery enough to accept a charge. The sun-tracking "trees" are each able to charge one Volt a day for about a third of the cost of refueling a gas vehicle. Harvesting energy from a renewable resource such as the sun in order to charge an electric vehicle is definitely a big step in the reducing oil dependence direction. At the end of the year, installations will begin at the GM headquarters in Detroit as well as their key launch markets in California, Texas, Michigan, New York, Connecticut and Washington, D.C."

http://green.autoblog.com/2010/10/21/envision-solar-trees-to-charge-the-chevy-volt/

10/22/2010 10:38:28 AM

To answer a few questions... I pay about 5 cents per kilowatt hour. The volt is probably going to cost me about a penny a mile to drive. It will add next to nothing to my electric bill last I ran the calc ($20 maybe at most).

Quote :

" If, as Carzin mused on the previous page, you effectively pay $200 a month look at what you're driving. A compact car that weighs 3700lbs with a cheap interior. Unless you think oil is pure evil I don't see the point in getting this over a Honda Civic? :shrugs: "

The car is definitely on a different class than a Honda Civic. You are getting to drive the latest greatest technology, a car that is virtually silent due to the electric motor, and dont have to worry about the price of gas going to $5 a gallon. The interior is not that of a Cadillac, but its better than a Civic.

I currently spend about $100 a month on maintenance on my car. As said before, I expect to save $150-200 a month on gas. The car will essentially be free in my situation (well, I will spend no more than I currently do).

if you don't get technology, I'd understand how you could compare it negatively to a Civic.

Its really a stupid argument. Many people spend ridiculous amounts of money on cars that have super nice interiors, or huge engines, or a combination there of. You can't justify it. People just want those things. More and more people are also wanting and paying for cars that innovate in other areas, like plug in hybrids or electric vehicles.

Quote :

"Yet the big question remains: Can the Volt go mainstream? GM has said it intends to build 45,000 Volts per year starting in 2012. That's not a small number of cars, not when they're priced at $40,280. Even if you deduct potential tax credits of at least $7,500 from the Federal government, or opt for the $350/month lease "deal," this is a costlier-than-average car. "

People never learn. Same argument was made for high definition tvs. 'People will never spend 3x the normal cost for TV for a better resolution.' Yet, they did. HDTVs were adopted by the masses, and prices came down accordingly.

First adopters are always going to pay more. That's why I am going the lease route. I expect the technology is going to improve a lot in 3-4 years, and I'd like to reassess.


[Edited on October 22, 2010 at 2:15 PM. Reason : .]

10/22/2010 2:09:37 PM

I predict GM will cancel this car within 2 years. If you lease, they'll just take the cars back and crush them like they did with the EV1 so they don't have to support them.

10/22/2010 2:18:39 PM

Not even close to a comparable situation, but I guess you are welcome to your opinion.

Had the volt been a strict EV, I would probably agree. I think all these companies putting out strictly EV models are in for trouble. I think the companies that focus on a bridge technology, like the Volt, will be selling big.

I'd not even consider the Leaf, because it is not a single vehicle solution (you'll have to have a second car).

[Edited on October 22, 2010 at 2:26 PM. Reason : .]

10/22/2010 2:22:57 PM

It's all a publicity stunt to keep public opinion off of their back so they don't have to improve their fleet average mpg above the 15mpg or whatever it is for as long as possible.

10/22/2010 2:32:15 PM

I'm not saying their motives are super clean, but the fact that virtually ever other car manufacturer is coming out with an electric vehicle of some sorts, means the moment is more than a publicity stunt.

The EV1, with less than 1200 ever produced, was a publicity stunt GM was forced into (via California). With 10s of thousands of these to be on the road in a couple of years, and more than 1 billion in research, I think it goes a lot further.

10/22/2010 2:36:23 PM

Quote :

"The car is definitely on a different class than a Honda Civic. You are getting to drive the latest greatest technology, a car that is virtually silent due to the electric motor, and dont have to worry about the price of gas going to $5 a gallon. The interior is not that of a Cadillac, but its better than a Civic."

While I can't speak on behalf of myself, Autoblog slammed the cheap quality of the interior plastic. Neither you or I have seen it first hand so I'll believe them. So I will disagree and maintain that the Civic has a higher quality interior. And what is the latest greatest technology? Not a (mostly) electric car that is inferior to an equivalent gasoline car in almost every measureable aspect.

Quote :

"if you don't get technology, I'd understand how you could compare it negatively to a Civic."

I'm pretty sure I understand and appreciate technology. Technology to me means high performance achieved in an efficient manner in a vehicle with a curb weight kept in check by using modern manufacturing techniques and advanced materials. Oh, and reliability.

Quote :

"Its really a stupid argument. Many people spend ridiculous amounts of money on cars that have super nice interiors, or huge engines, or a combination there of. You can't justify it. People just want those things. More and more people are also wanting and paying for cars that innovate in other areas, like plug in hybrids or electric vehicles."

People spend a lot of their lives inside their cars. Naturally they want a nice and/or luxurious interior; thus it does matter. The Chevy Volt is a good step forward in the advancement of alternative energy sources for transportation but don't try to sugarcoat it as the latest and greatest. Because compared to any conventional vehicle within $20k of its price it is inferior.

10/22/2010 3:34:58 PM

Wait this thing costs 40k?

Thats a joke.

10/22/2010 4:26:47 PM

Quote :

"While I can't speak on behalf of myself, Autoblog slammed the cheap quality of the interior plastic. Neither you or I have seen it first hand so I'll believe them. So I will disagree and maintain that the Civic has a higher quality interior. And what is the latest greatest technology? Not a (mostly) electric car that is inferior to an equivalent gasoline car in almost every measureable aspect. "

You may be right on the interior (I havent seen it in person, however, one review doesnt make a consensus as to quality- for example, the auto-blog people rode in a CLOTH interior, and didnt get to ride in the leather interior). The technological achievement with this care is almost beyond reproach. The Volt is going to be the first main stream electric vehicle that can be a single car solution. The amount of technology that has been put into this car via aerodynamic drag reduction, super low power consumption instrumentation, hybrid drive train technology, battery management technology, can't be ignored. There is a helluva lot more to a plug-in hybrid than a strict EV.

Quote :

"I'm pretty sure I understand and appreciate technology. Technology to me means high performance achieved in an efficient manner in a vehicle with a curb weight kept in check by using modern manufacturing techniques and advanced materials. Oh, and reliability."

I think your definition of technology is pretty fucked up. Most pieces of technology we have started out as something that wasnt perfect, but evolved. You're applying traditional car principles to a car that is not traditional. I also think that if gas continues its rise, and you end up paying 6-7 a gallon for fuel, you might feel a bit foolish thinking performance is the only consideration when buying a vehicle. And why are you bitching about curb weight? We all know its going to weigh a lot because of the battery. But the net effect is a car that hugs the road well. My wife's Civic couldnt hold a curve well if its life depended on it.

Quote :

"People spend a lot of their lives inside their cars. Naturally they want a nice and/or luxurious interior; thus it does matter. The Chevy Volt is a good step forward in the advancement of alternative energy sources for transportation but don't try to sugarcoat it as the latest and greatest. Because compared to any conventional vehicle within $20k of its price it is inferior. "

There are plenty of people out there that will get the exact same level or greater of satisfaction knowing they dont need gas in most instances to go from point A to point B. As someone who wouldnt have considered buying anything other than a luxury german car about 4 years ago, I now consider myself among those people. Since I don't want a conventional vehicle, comparing the features of a conventional car to the volt is literally like comparing Apples and Oranges. I honestly dont care if the Volt has a second slower 0-60 than an Accord, or that it isnt as stylish as a German sports car. And I sure as hell won't be jealous of the M3 that pulls up next to me. If you don't get it, you probably will in a few years when all cars are moving in this direction.

Quote :

"Wait this thing costs 40k? Thats a joke. "

Will cost about 33k after the tax rebate. Still expensive. The lease really is the way to go with this car.

[Edited on October 22, 2010 at 4:51 PM. Reason : .]

10/22/2010 4:37:05 PM

So what's going to be the easiest way to get more horsepower out of this thing?

[Edited on October 22, 2010 at 6:06 PM. Reason : Can we swap an LS6 into it?]

Says here the curb weight is 3500lbs, with a 400lbs battery pack. So if we get rid of that...

[Edited on October 22, 2010 at 6:07 PM. Reason : .]

10/22/2010 6:05:17 PM

Quote :

"You may be right on the interior (I havent seen it in person, however, one review doesnt make a consensus as to quality- for example, the auto-blog people rode in a CLOTH interior, and didnt get to ride in the leather interior). The technological achievement with this care is almost beyond reproach. The Volt is going to be the first main stream electric vehicle that can be a single car solution. The amount of technology that has been put into this car via aerodynamic drag reduction, super low power consumption instrumentation, hybrid drive train technology, battery management technology, can't be ignored. There is a helluva lot more to a plug-in hybrid than a strict EV."

That they tested the cloth interior of leather is a fair observation, however in almost all cases no manufacturer upgrades the dashboard material to correspond with a seating material upgrade. Aerodynamic drag reduction is great but a lot of time is spent on that to make up for the inferior battery (compared to a gasoline engine) technology. If the public demanded it that technology could be applied to conventional automobiles.

Quote :

"I also think that if gas continues its rise, and you end up paying 6-7 a gallon for fuel, you might feel a bit foolish thinking performance is the only consideration when buying a vehicle. And why are you bitching about curb weight? We all know its going to weigh a lot because of the battery. But the net effect is a car that hugs the road well. My wife's Civic couldnt hold a curve well if its life depended on it."

A lot of your argument depends on gasoline prices skyrocketing in the near future. Baring a major war that will not be the case. And I complain about curb weight b/c it negatively affects the vehicle in every way. A heavier car does not "hug the road" better than a comparative lighter car. If you think otherwise you're not applying the laws of physics properly. You'd be surprised how fleet of foot your wife's Civic would feel if driven back to back with this car.

Quote :

" There are plenty of people out there that will get the exact same level or greater of satisfaction knowing they dont need gas in most instances to go from point A to point B."

That comment reeks of smugness, a la that Southpark episode. There's nothing wrong with operating a vehicle that consumes gasoline.

Quote :

"Will cost about 33k after the tax rebate. Still expensive"

There is no federal government rebate. There is a tax credit, which means when you buy the car you're still paying $40,xxx at the time.

10/22/2010 6:57:07 PM

Quote :

"Aerodynamic drag reduction is great but a lot of time is spent on that to make up for the inferior battery (compared to a gasoline engine) technology. If the public demanded it that technology could be applied to conventional automobiles."

Its always a give and take. And the public is demanding the technology. GM stated this week that the overwhelming demand is causing them to up their production number estimates for the Volt for this year and next year.

Quote :

"A lot of your argument depends on gasoline prices skyrocketing in the near future. Baring a major war that will not be the case. And I complain about curb weight b/c it negatively affects the vehicle in every way. A heavier car does not "hug the road" better than a comparative lighter car. If you think otherwise you're not applying the laws of physics properly. You'd be surprised how fleet of foot your wife's Civic would feel if driven back to back with this car. "

First of all, you obviously dont know squat about oil. I am not even going to start that argument. Second of all, you are also missing the point about the weight. It isnt the weight alone that allows the car to handle better. It is the weight coupled with a low center of gravity (the large batteries being close to the ground) that provide good handling. So, my physics work just fine, thank you.

Quote :

"That comment reeks of smugness, a la that Southpark episode. There's nothing wrong with operating a vehicle that consumes gasoline."

No it doesnt. I could say the same of your argument, since apparently the only thing in your mind that makes a car worth a damn is pure performance numbers. I'm simply saying that your belief that performance is the ONLY indicator is flawed, as their are lots of other factors, efficiency being one of them.

Quote :

"There is no federal government rebate. There is a tax credit, which means when you buy the car you're still paying $40,xxx at the time."

Really? No fucking duh. It still amounts to the same. Stop trying to split hairs. Its all going to come out the same in the wash. If you want the car payment of a 33k car, then you simply refinance when you get the rebate.

10/22/2010 8:17:00 PM

I want to know how much of a drain the heat puts on when its on electric mode.....electric heat uses some juice.

10/22/2010 9:46:44 PM

I wonder how many thousands of dollars the batteries will cost to replace.

10/22/2010 10:10:08 PM

It will hug the road because it is heavy? wtf?

Where is this Crazyin kid from? Tech talk?

10/23/2010 9:34:20 AM

Read my fucking post. Heavy weight concentrated low to the ground lowers the center of gravity. Do I need to connect all the dots for you, or you just pretending?

10/23/2010 12:51:25 PM

Sorry I was in the garage bolting boat anchors to my cars subframe to improve its handling.

10/23/2010 1:26:15 PM

lol

You too, huh?

10/23/2010 4:21:29 PM

I've been carrying around 100lbs bags of concrete for years to all my autocross events.

10/23/2010 8:39:20 PM

i compromised my ground clearance but boy does she feel planted

10/24/2010 6:27:52 PM

You guys are so funny!

10/25/2010 11:32:02 AM

You know what's better than heavy weight concentrated near the ground? A lighter car.

10/25/2010 3:07:54 PM

Quote :

"The Volt is going to be the first main stream electric vehicle that can be a single car solution."

This is what's just silly, it's only a "single car solution" because it stops being a purely electric vehicle.

The only reason to buy it over a Prius or Hybrid Civic is that for those first 30-40 miles you're not using any gas vs. the one gallon either normal hybrid would use.

$8,000 to save $2.65 a day.

10/25/2010 4:35:29 PM

lmao this thing is so fucking dumb. ahahahahaha

gm is the worst and deserved to die.

10/25/2010 5:23:12 PM

Quote :

"You know what's better than heavy weight concentrated near the ground?"

heavy weight under ground ?

10/25/2010 5:50:38 PM

also how does the heat work when its on electric mode? During that time there is no hot coolant to pull heat off of.
[quote]

The batteries and electric motor will be cooking off heat. They're only about 85-90% efficient at converting electrical energy into mechanical energy, with the waste being heat.

[Edited on October 25, 2010 at 5:55 PM. Reason : those parts won't heat up until you start moving, so you won't preheat the car that way]

10/25/2010 5:54:36 PM

If they ever start making roads out of steel my ballast magnets are going to be the shit.

Positive polarity = grip for days.
Negative polarity = lightest car on the road & best gas mileage ever.

10/25/2010 6:01:09 PM

^

Best idea yet

10/25/2010 8:00:39 PM

Quote :

"Negative polarity = lightest car on the road & best gas mileage ever. "

until you go around a curve too fast and the car flips upside down and crushes itself under magnetic force.

10/25/2010 8:06:22 PM

WTF was I thinking

[Edited on October 25, 2010 at 8:25 PM. Reason : B]

10/25/2010 8:20:51 PM

^^ I'm pretty sure we could come up with a system that would detect minute changes in the steering angle as well as g-forces to reverse the polarity accordingly.

Grip for days son.
Grip for days.

10/25/2010 8:52:39 PM

Someone should make a slot car racetrack. It has big ass steel lines in the track, and you attach a giant magnet in your floorboards. Then you just shoot around the track at top speed.

DONT LIFT!!!!

10/25/2010 9:11:49 PM

they already have those; it's called light rail.

10/26/2010 9:29:25 AM