page 65

5/3/2012 9:51:46 AM

"knifes"



Anyway, I would be more or less willing to file this whole myspace thing under the "stupid shit that teenagers say" category, with only making mention that it will be interesting to see why/how Zimmerman's defense is defending this.

I will find it funny to see Zimmerman supporters inevitably dismiss Joe G's involvement in some crime he could have been "pinched for", while continuing to pour over Trayvon's past behavioral problems gathered from twitter and his school.

5/3/2012 10:16:49 AM

Working 96 hours a week...living with my parents in their Florida retirement home.

5/3/2012 11:15:29 AM

Seriously though, I don't think Zimmerman's old comments are particularly meaningful in this case.



Anyway, totally separate question for TWW's legal experts:

So there are certain parts of town where there is a very high probability of getting mugged or attacked if you walk through them alone at night. If you buy a gun, practice with it, get a CCW or whatever...and then write in your journal: "Tonight I am going to go out to [blank] Street and kill the first person who attacks me." And then go out and do it.

Is that self-defense or murder?

5/3/2012 11:36:44 AM

theres premeditation

5/3/2012 11:39:25 AM

Murder. You can't put yourself in a situation where you *know* you will have to engage in self-defense (unless it's your own home, etc.)

5/3/2012 11:44:24 AM

hmmm... i'd say it depends on the circumstances of the attack and the ensuing escalation.

5/3/2012 11:46:41 AM

Heard many of my black friends say similar things about black people who were robbing people who worked at a nice restaurant that was too close to the housing authority. Not really any different from me saying that I don't like hillbilly rednecks when I go home.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/04/25/us-usa-florida-shooting-zimmerman-idUSBRE83O18H20120425

Worth the read.

5/3/2012 12:49:52 PM

just say you were trying to stop the attack. should be gravy.

5/3/2012 1:52:53 PM

^^ Good read. Thx for posting.

5/3/2012 3:45:20 PM

HERE HERE!

5/3/2012 10:33:40 PM

none of that story is true. george wrote that himself to make people think he was a good person.

5/3/2012 10:58:26 PM

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-05-03/news/os-trayvon-martin-circles-george-zimmerman-20120503_1_special-prosecutor-angela-corey-source-police-department

-Apparently Zimmerman told police that Trayvon circled his car, frightening him.

..perhaps. it would appear that getting out of your car and following someone is behaviour inconsistent with someone that's afraid. Well, unless you are a dumb white woman in a horror movie..


-it seems as if Zimmerman told police that Trayvon put his hand over Zimmerman's mouth

..perhaps. It would appear the screams hears on the recording were all unmuffled though. This now means that Trayvon was beating Zimmerman's head against the ground with one hand, reaching for the gun with his other hand, and covering Zimmerman's mouth with his other hand..


Plausible.

5/7/2012 2:05:40 PM

Quote :

"http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/04/25/us-usa-florida-shooting-zimmerman-idUSBRE83O18H20120425"

good article.

5/7/2012 2:15:16 PM

^^ he was using his huge african penis as a third hand. it's a racial gift.

5/7/2012 2:16:18 PM

Don't be black in a black ungated community

http://video.foxnews.com/v/1622103111001/teen-killed-after-alleged-robbery/?playlist_id=86862

I'm Krallum and I approved this message.

5/7/2012 3:27:00 PM

5/11/2012 2:42:13 PM

if michael vick was white

5/11/2012 3:13:40 PM

http://video.foxnews.com/v/1622103111001/teen-killed-after-alleged-robbery/?playlist_id=86862



[Edited on May 11, 2012 at 3:58 PM. Reason : .]


here is a good one too, here is how they apply stand your ground to minority females

a 20 year prison sentence
http://www.cnn.com/2012/05/11/justice/florida-stand-ground-sentencing/index.html?hpt=hp_t2


[Edited on May 11, 2012 at 4:05 PM. Reason : .]

5/11/2012 3:54:01 PM

^She wasn't standing her ground. She had gotten away & came back with a gun. Yes she forgot her keys but her keys weren't needed for her to open the garage door and run out.

It sucks and she got a bullshit sentence but she DID commit the crime and she HAD the opportunity to get away from him (arguably already had). She probably should have taken the 3-year plea but I'd imagine they were hoping the jury would be sympathetic to her. Had she not fired toward the room with the kids in it, maybe she would have (or maybe they restricted testimony about her husband being a complete piece of shit that had been beating & threatening her for years). It's too bad she missed him, she probably could have gotten away with it and it's not like the fucker didn't have it coming.

5/11/2012 7:59:22 PM

WOW

YOU BELIEVE THIS UNTIL YOU SEE IT

http://www.wral.com/news/national_world/national/video/11095720/#/vid11095720

5/12/2012 12:57:50 AM

I DO NOT BELIEVE

5/12/2012 12:59:42 AM

Quote :

"Location: Virginia Beach, VA"

GeniuSxBoY: purveyor of tasteless pizza and tasteless targets

5/12/2012 1:45:39 AM

Evidence list released to the defense
http://us.cnn.com/2012/05/15/justice/florida-teen-shooting/index.html?hpt=hp_t3

5/15/2012 1:31:58 PM

Goddamn, people profiting off of selling Trayvon Martin gun range targets

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-05-11/news/os-trayvon-martin-gun-range-targets-20120511_1_targets-florida-gun-dealers-clickorlando-com

5/15/2012 5:20:47 PM

^ People are also profiting off all the "Travyon was murdered" merchandise. I think I recall reading something about his parents being involved in such merchandizing. It's all tasteless. I do have to admit, when I first saw those targets a few weeks ago, I did chuckle while commenting to myself that they were "beat up".

5/15/2012 5:41:42 PM

I remember his parents copywriting certain phrases regarding Trayvon Martin... I think that had more to do with them protecting his name and keeping others from profiting off of his death though.
Where did you read about his parents profiting?

5/15/2012 5:46:00 PM

^ I don't recall the specific article. I just remember reading something about his parents filing for trademarks/copyright and perhaps licensing things concerning their son.

It was probably this article:
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/trayvon-martin-family-looks-trademark-am-trayvon-justice-142131528.html

5/15/2012 5:54:08 PM

eh, difference of opinion in regards to the motivation for filing copyrights I suppose


=============

http://abcnews.go.com/US/george-zimmerman-medical-report-sheds-light-injuries-trayvon/story?id=16353532#.T7LcIOsV0s8

Medical report composed by family doctor released to the news for Zimmerman the morning after. Two small lacerations to the back of his head, black eyes, busted lips, minor back injury. - I guess this doesn't really say anything except that he was in a fight.... which we knew.

[Edited on May 15, 2012 at 6:48 PM. Reason : d]

5/15/2012 6:47:54 PM

^Actually I'm pretty sure a lot of people have been denying the fight all along.

5/15/2012 7:25:16 PM

Really?

I completely missed that? People ITT, or people in general?

5/15/2012 7:27:27 PM

I haven't seen anyone deny that there was a fight

5/15/2012 7:36:34 PM

Quote :

"I completely missed that? People ITT, or people in general?"

Quote :

"I haven't seen anyone deny that there was a fight"

Lots of people were all over the video at the police station where you can see the back of GZ's head saying there were no injuries and so Zimmerman shot Martin in cold blood. Pointing out that there were injuries is proof to what you're denying. But whatever, you're not interested in getting the facts you just want Zimmerman to be the bad guy.

5/15/2012 8:45:05 PM

That sounds like something that you just made up. You just made that up, didn't you? Figures...I'm sorry LaserSoup, but you have lost all credibility in this thread. You are excused.

5/15/2012 8:47:10 PM

nobody denied there was a fight

some people doubted that Zimmerman had no ability to retreat*




*i am not interested in debating Stand Your Ground

5/15/2012 8:52:13 PM

Quote :

"^ People are also profiting off all the "Travyon was murdered" merchandise. I think I recall reading something about his parents being involved in such merchandizing. It's all tasteless. I do have to admit, when I first saw those targets a few weeks ago, I did chuckle while commenting to myself that they were "beat up"."

Zimmerman has reportedly made WAY more money than the Martins, and has spent some of it on personal items, where as the Martins are using the money to start a scholarship or something.

5/15/2012 8:52:52 PM

^You gonna show some facts with that or what?

5/15/2012 9:28:29 PM

Interesting that the link above talked about Zimmerman's injuries but didn't mention Martin's.

http://www.wftv.com/news/news/local/autopsy-results-show-trayvon-martin-had-injuries-h/nN6gs/

Quote :

"SANFORD, Fla. — WFTV has confirmed that autopsy results show 17-year-old Trayvon Martin had injuries to his knuckles when he died. The information could support George Zimmerman's claim that Martin beat him up before Zimmerman shot and killed him."

5/15/2012 10:13:53 PM

^^ http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/05/11/2794656/trayvon-martins-mother-got-about.html

So far, it looks like Zimmerman has personally profited on this, while the Martins are burning their vacation and sick leave.

Shooting an unarmed kid might be the best thing Zimmerman could have done with his life.

[Edited on May 15, 2012 at 10:16 PM. Reason : ]

5/15/2012 10:16:25 PM

Quote :

"A medical report of accused Trayvon Martin murderer George Zimmerman and obtained exclusively by ABC News found that Zimmerman was diagnosed with a "closed fracture" of his nose, a pair of black eyes, two lacerations to the back of his head and a minor back injury the day after he fatally shot Martin during an alleged altercation."

Quote :

"According to the ABC affiliate in Orlando, Florida, autopsy results show that Trayvon Martin suffered a gunshot wound as well as open wounds to his knuckles."

Yeah, this case is over.

It's a tragedy what happened, and totally preventable, but second-degree murder? No way in hell they get that conviction. Now the only question is whether riots occur after the acquittal

They should've gone for manslaughter.


[Edited on May 16, 2012 at 2:28 AM. Reason : 2]

5/16/2012 2:25:42 AM

^ the jury has the option for any charge up to murder 2.

They can go with manslaughter if they want.

http://www.thewolfweb.com/message_topic.aspx?topic=624805&page=48#15338402
http://www.thewolfweb.com/message_topic.aspx?topic=624805&page=48#15338433

The murder 2 could theoretically make a manslaughter conviction more likely in fact (stealing this idea from Beethoven).

[Edited on May 16, 2012 at 2:44 AM. Reason : ]

5/16/2012 2:41:23 AM

Oh, alright. Of course as your links show, the Casey Anthony jury had the option for voluntary or involuntary manslaughter, and they didn't go for either. The distinction in that case was that the prosecution could not prove Casey killed her daughter. Zimmerman obviously killed Martin, but the prosecution will have a hell of a time trying to prove malicious intent as required for a murder conviction.

I wonder if the 2nd degree murder charge makes it more likely that the judge throws the case out under Florida's self-defense immunity law. Or are they past that stage already?

[Edited on May 16, 2012 at 3:11 AM. Reason : 2]

5/16/2012 3:08:34 AM

Prawn Star - There being a fight, and even injuries to Trayvon's knuckles, doesn't preclude the possibility that George Zimmerman started a fight and Trayvon was acting in self-defense. Once GZ realized he was in over his head, he may have thought his only option was to shoot TM.

5/16/2012 9:32:49 AM

True, but good luck proving it. If Zimmerman had 2 black eyes and a broken nose while Martin was rocking bloody knuckles it's not hard to guess who was winning the fight. If Zimmerman had already gotten that busted up and was still getting punched he has a pretty strong argument that he was in fear of suffering severe injury and possibly death. That's all he needs to be acquitted. The prosecutor cannot win this case with the evidence they have.

5/16/2012 10:23:43 AM

Sure. But no jury will convict the guy for murder based on the "possibility" that someone started a fight, had things go badly, and then pulled a gun after his nose was broken and his head was getting pummeled into the ground.

A manslaughter conviction is possible. Murder 2 is just out of the question.

5/16/2012 10:26:25 AM

So now we're onto "good luck proving it." Which gets back to the problem of George Zimmerman killing Trayvon Martin.

I'm not trying to give Trayvon a free pass or something, I'm just saying Zimmerman is the reason TM is dead. We can't get the full story because Zimmerman killed the only person that can dispute his claims.

5/16/2012 10:42:16 AM

I think the biggest problem will be finding 12 impartial people to sit on the jury. The news media has already put a major bias on this case.

5/16/2012 10:49:02 AM

So your solution is to convict him of 2nd degree murder with no evidence to support that conviction?

All the evidence in this case supports Zimmerman's claim of self defense. It's an unfortunate series of events, and Zimmerman put himself in a bad situation, but it certainly looks like he was acting in self defense based on what we know.

Remember, the prosecution must prove the contrary, Zimmerman's lawyers will have plenty to back their defense.

5/16/2012 10:49:28 AM

I'll have no objection if this dude gets Bradley Cuppered

5/16/2012 11:57:37 AM

Quote :

"We can't get the full story because Zimmerman killed the only person that can dispute his claims."

and this is the main reason why Zimmerman is innocent in the courts. Nothing else matters.

What I mean by that is you have to go by EVIDENCE and PERSONAL TESTIMONY. He's under oath and evidence is evidence. TM had bloody knuckles while Zimmerman had a busted up face. TM was winning the fight. In Florida, it doesn't matter who the aggressor is. Zimmerman shot him in self-defense, according to EVIDENCE and PERSONAL TESTIMONY.

[Edited on May 16, 2012 at 12:51 PM. Reason : .]

5/16/2012 12:49:53 PM