yeah... most people have learned of this on release day. MaxPC did a whole benchmark article that was accidentally published online a day early. And honestly, its not a true 8 cores since a number of cpu parts have interlinks or completely shared. If you run a program that uses all 8 threads and all the threads are doing the same calculations and use the same info from the onboard cache, then in theory, bulldozer would be blazing fast; but since multiple programs run across different threads at the same time, its just slow.

They were doing something like SLI for cpu cores.

11/22/2011 5:01:15 PM

if you read it, it's not in regards to it's desktop benchmarks, those were published a long time ago as you stated....and if you read the desktop benchmarks, pretty much all of them agreed they were terrible for desktops because of the sad single-threaded performance but speculated (as AMD kept telling everyone) that they would perform better in multi-threaded server benchmarks.... which this article pretty much rips. i posted it because it gives a more complete picture... it fails in ALL regards.

i just like to rip on AMD... i used to love 'em, but the've just made some terrible decisions.

[Edited on November 22, 2011 at 5:15 PM. Reason : .]

11/22/2011 5:05:17 PM

I need some guidance. After putting together my new PC, it's been experiencing lockup problems which I thought were related to BF3. Now just this evening I've seen another game crash in the exact same way (system fans and all other internal devices still running, but no response from USB devices connected to motherboard) that BF3 routinely does. I've already tested the RAM and graphics cards, and I feel confident that this is not a PSU issue since the system remains running steadily after a crash. Which motherboard/CPU stress test would you recommend I throw at this system?

11/22/2011 6:34:22 PM

Prime95 is good for CPU. FurMark or Kombustor are good for video cards. 3DMark is good for benchmarking but it won't stress your cards as much as the others.

Is anything overclocked?

[Edited on November 22, 2011 at 8:17 PM. Reason : s]

11/22/2011 8:16:40 PM

Thanks. Running Prime 95 right now. I'll let it ride for at least 3-4 hours and see what I get.

I originally had the CPU (i7-2600K) very slightly overclocked (not even to 4ghz), but I reset to stock after BF3 crashed on me the first time. I also have 2 GTX560Ti's, but I've underclocked them since people on the BF3 forums seem to think that it makes a difference.

[Edited on November 22, 2011 at 8:31 PM. Reason : 560]

11/22/2011 8:22:23 PM

no, its bf3 that crashes, don't matter, it just doesn't like good fast computers.

11/22/2011 9:02:44 PM

BF3 stopped having issues after I stopped using SLI.

11/22/2011 10:09:15 PM

I also thought I'd disable one of the cards and try BF3, but it still crashed the same way. Now that I've seen Tribes crash in the eaxct same manner, I'm really feeling like this is something going wrong with my hardware. What troubles me is that I just can't figure out which component to point the finger at. It doesn't make sense to me that my machine only crashes like this when I'm gaming. I could see something going wrong with an executable or maybe a BSOD, but I'm getting NOTHING other than complete frame lock and an occasional pop/buzz from my speakers. No way out except to hard reboot.

Motherboard/CPU test still running with zero problems on any level.

11/22/2011 10:53:36 PM

Maybe your heatsink isn't seated correctly? Sounds like it could be the CPU temperature failsafe kicking in.

I'd try taking off the heatsink, clean the surfaces, and reapply.

11/22/2011 11:06:36 PM

Yeah you haven't mentioned temps yet. How's the CPU/GPU doing?

11/22/2011 11:16:46 PM

^^ That's an interesting thought. I installed a front-panel fan controller and thermometer in the case and I have yet to see any reading in any zone of the case which would cause me any alarm. Gonna check the BIOS now and see what it says.

OK, CPU temperature is 31 degrees Celsius. I stopped Prime 95 just long enough to immediately restart and check. It had been previously running for over 3 hours.

Let me throw this out there and see if this might indicate something. I have a Steelseries Merc Stealth keyboard which I have learned the VERY hard way to not plug it into a USB 3.0 slot. Windows 7 does not shut down correctly when this is in a 3.0 slot, but is perfectly happy when it's in a 2.0 slot. (Did this by accident and didn't figure it out for several hours.) I've observed that whenever the computer crashes, power to the keyboard goes completely out since the keyboard's LED backlight switches off. Could this be indicative of some kind of voltage issue? I've got a brand new OCZ 850w 80+ gold PSU, and my calculations for power consumption for the entire system shouldn't break much over 650w.

[Edited on November 23, 2011 at 12:03 AM. Reason : temp]

11/22/2011 11:49:20 PM

OK, I'm starting to see what's wrong here but I'm not sure how to fix it.

- Motherboard is a Gigabyte GA-Z68A-D3H-B3. Has 3 PCIe slots - x16 (slot 1), x4 (slot 2), and x8 (slot 3). Am running 2 560Ti's.
- Ran the Kombustor stress test on both cards while in SLI. Only the card in slot 1 (x16) showed any workload. Card in slot 3 (x8) showed up as SLI connected, but wasn't really doing anything. I've never run a SLI setup before so I honestly didn't know if this was normal. Seems like both cards should be sharing the workload, though...
- Plugged monitor into card in slot 3. No signal. I figured that this meant dead card, but wanted to make sure.
- Pulled both cards. Put the known good card into slot 3, and it worked. Feel like I can rule out the motherboard having a bad slot 3.
- Put the suspected bad card into slot 1, and it also worked just fine. WTF. Now I''m confused.
- Am swapping both cards into both slots and reconnecting SLI to see what happens. Kombustor is running on suspected bad card while in slot 1 with no trouble.

I''m a little worried that the motherboard isn't utilizing both cards properly (and is causing a short?). Very first thing I did while building was flash the motherboard's BIOS to the newest version, so I don't feel like the BIOS is the problem. Any suggestions, please?

11/23/2011 2:39:03 PM

Did you install the SLI bridge?

11/23/2011 3:14:00 PM

LOL. Yes. I'm inexperienced, but not that stupid.

Kombustor is back to running a 16x MSAA stress test, and card 1 is showing 82 degrees while card 2 is showing 36. That just doesn't seem right... Or is it?

What are the odds that the SLI bridge is bad?

[Edited on November 23, 2011 at 3:16 PM. Reason : bridge]

11/23/2011 3:16:23 PM

@Axelay This may or may not be relevant buy im having a similar problem from a gigabyte 890fx system. I know for my mother board, the northbridge has a tendency to overheat. Ive just started really trying to replicate the problem so im not sure thats what causing it, but the forums recommend putting a 20mm fan on the north bridge if thats whats going on. You might want to keep a check on that too while you are testing.

[Edited on November 23, 2011 at 3:17 PM. Reason : ]

11/23/2011 3:16:30 PM

That's another interesting thought. The problem is that the layout of my board prevents me from doing that.



When there's a graphics card in the PCIe x16, it almost completely covers it. I can touch the top of the chipset cover and it doesn't feel warm enough to really make me worried.

11/23/2011 3:28:31 PM

Quote :

"Kombustor is back to running a 16x MSAA stress test, and card 1 is showing 82 degrees while card 2 is showing 36. That just doesn't seem right... Or is it?"

Use GPUz to see if they're both loaded. Sounds like that second card isn't doing anything if it's that cool.

11/23/2011 3:45:36 PM

I agree. I have just checked again and verified that GPU1 is being used 99.9%, and GPU2 isn't even showing any use. What the hell? SLI is definitely enabled in the NVIDIA control panel. Could the problem really be with just the bridge? That'd be the very best case scenario, I think.

OK, I just looked again when running the Kombustor benchmark, and I see that for a split second at the start of the test, GPU2 registers 1% use and then the stat field completely disappears from the test altogether. I'm convinced that even though the system is being told to use both cards in SLI, GPU2 isn't picking up its end of the workload. I think I've identified the problem, but now I need to figure out how to fix it. Think I should try a new SLI bridge and see if that solves it?

[Edited on November 23, 2011 at 3:53 PM. Reason : GPU2]

11/23/2011 3:49:20 PM

I see you have integrated graphics, be sure to disable that in the BIOS and look for a BIOS SLI option to enable if it has it.... some hybrid motherboards have a specific setting.

[Edited on November 23, 2011 at 3:59 PM. Reason : .]

11/23/2011 3:59:07 PM

Yup, thought about that as well. My motherboard only has 2 settings for the onboard VGA, though - "enable if no external PCIe graphics card present" (default), or "always enable whether or not PCIe is detected." It's set to enable if no external PCIe card is present.

11/23/2011 9:29:07 PM

Back at home and back to more testing. I have removed all drivers and uninstalled everything having to do with NVIDIA. I then benchmarked each card individually and they worked exactly as expected. Once united via SLI and benchmarked again, though, the same problem occurs. One card is busting its ass, and the other doesn't do anything. There's one video on Youtube which demonstrates exactly what I am seeing happen, but there are no responses yet as to what exactly is going wrong.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VetAkdccsl0

11/25/2011 10:02:08 PM

I think I might have fixed it... at least, I know for certain now that SLI is working as it should be. Both cards are now pulling almost equal weight in both Kombustor and Furmark. I switched SLI rendering mode into forcing alternative frame rendering as well as having the driver display a visual indicator of SLI communication while benchmarking. Of course, I still have no idea if this is going to solve the problem with BF3... This has turned into a ridiculous amount of hoop jumping.

11/26/2011 1:52:49 AM

OK, back to square 1.

http://www.ozone3d.net/benchmarks/furmark_score_190.php?id=12113

Is there anything unusual about these scores...? I've compared to several others, and they don't seem off. However, now when I go into BF3, it chugs out maybe 10FPS. This is after a complete system wipe, fresh reinstall of all newest drivers, and individual benchmarking of each graphics card. They work fine alone, but don't seem to play nicely together. Surely SLI isn't THIS complicated to get to work properly.

11/28/2011 9:11:41 AM

SLI is very simple, install cards, add the bridge, drivers>enable SLI, you're done.

No one wants to nuke their machine, but honestly, I would. Then again, I don't have anything on my rig except games, all my data is on a separate networked machine.

Anyway, after nuking, you will be certain it's not your environment, assuming the first thing you do after the OS install, before updating, is enable SLI. It just depends on your patience, I have very little.

[Edited on November 28, 2011 at 10:08 AM. Reason : -]

11/28/2011 10:06:12 AM

Yup, I've done that. This is my third time around reformatting and reinstalling with this particular machine. This time around, I installed only 1 card, then the driver, then the other card with the bridge. (It was an NVIDIA suggestion.) The only things on the SSD for this machine are Windows 7 64-bit SP1, Norton Internet Security, and Origin/BF3. The SLI settings in the NVIDIA control panel are enabled and 3-D rendering is set to "NVIDIA recommended." I just don't know if the problem lies with the game itself or with the SLI configuration. I feel confident that with all of the testing which I have done, I can rule hardware out.

11/28/2011 10:46:18 AM

I found a forum post just like yours over on evga.com. They gave him some things to try. Maybe give it a once over to see if you missed anything.
http://www.evga.com/forums/tm.aspx?m=1335876
http://www.evga.com/forums/tm.aspx?high=&m=1323124&mpage=1#1323124

highlights:

Quote :

"(In Windows 7) I read some people had fixed it by setting BF3.exe to run as admin, so I set BF3.exe to run as administrator and origin (just to be safe) to also run as administrator. This problem is completely gone now and has been gone for 3 days. "

Quote :

"The fact is now that upping the voltage on my card to 1.062 has resulted in an incredible gain in stability. I can play for two hours at a time. "

[Edited on November 28, 2011 at 11:03 AM. Reason : highlights]

11/28/2011 11:00:44 AM

Im not sure why I didnt think of this sooner but I have a friend with one 560 and his soundcard will freeze his PC just like yours. He is 100% Linx/FAH stable like you as well.

http://www.evga.com/forums/tm.aspx?m=1302095&high=560+SLI+Freeze

Quote :

"Onboard Realtek sound causing crashing. Apparently the fix is to disable onboard sound in the BIOS and use a soundcard. "

Im leaning toward the sound card issue.

11/28/2011 11:32:17 AM

anyone using an AM3+ chip in an AM3 socket? I'm thinking about an fx8150 to replace my aging 925 x4 phenom 2.

11/28/2011 12:07:38 PM

Hell of a deal:

http://slickdeals.net/permadeal/63782/newegg-40-newegg-credit-for-20

Quote :

"Google Offers has $40 Newegg Credit for $20. Limit one per customer. Thanks slickdills Note, paid value of $20 does not expire. Promotional value valid through February 26, 2012."

11/28/2011 12:36:41 PM

Came in here to post that. Haha.

11/28/2011 12:41:15 PM

Got in on the amazon.com preorder for the Prime @$492, so I'll probably use the $40 on Transformer Prime Micro SDHC & case, I think. Or a new monitor. Decisions, decisions. I really wanted to jump on the 27" Planar deal at Dell...

[Edited on November 28, 2011 at 12:47 PM. Reason : .]

11/28/2011 12:46:49 PM

Not going to get the keyboard?

11/28/2011 12:53:12 PM

Hell no, what a waste of money. Logitech Bluetooth Keyboard for tablets is only $40 and I don't need the extra battery life.

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Logitech+-+Keyboard+for+Android+3.0%2B+Tablets/2678471.p?id=1218345204619&skuId=2678471&st=Logitech%20-%20Keyboard%20for%20Android%203.0+%20Tablets&cp=1&lp=1

[Edited on November 28, 2011 at 1:01 PM. Reason : .]

11/28/2011 12:58:39 PM

How do these all sound together?

CPU: Intel Core i7-2600K Sandy Bridge 3.4GHz (3.8GHz Turbo Boost) LGA 1155 95W Quad-Core Desktop Processor Intel HD Graphics 3000 BX80623I72600K
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115070

Heatsink: Noctua 6 Dual Heatpipe with 140mm/120mm Dual SSO Bearing Fans CPU Cooler NH-D14 - Retail
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002VKVZ1A?ie=UTF8&tag=cursegaming0f-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=B002VKVZ1A

Motherboard: ASUS P8Z68-V PRO Motherboard
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131790

RAM: 8GB G.Skill DDR3 PC3-12800 1600MHz Ripjaw Series (9-9-9-24) Dual Channel kit for Intel LGA1156/AM3
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00339X1EM?ie=UTF8&tag=cursegaming0f-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=B00339X1EM

Video Card(s): EVGA 01G-P3-1561-AR GeForce GTX 560 Ti FPB (Fermi) 1GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Support Video Card x2
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130604

11/28/2011 1:03:21 PM

Wow, $85 on a CPU heatsink and then you cheap out with a 560Ti, seriously dude, no $85 worth of cooling hardware is worth it to overclock the CPU instead of getting a better GPU. unless you play chess games. now if you're spending $300+ on a graphics card and have extra money to throw at a good CPU cooler than more power to ya... I just don't see $220 on graphics card and $85 on a cpu cooler as proportional for what you're getting out of it.

[Edited on November 28, 2011 at 1:09 PM. Reason : .]

11/28/2011 1:05:10 PM

To be fair, I got all of that minus the video cards from a list someone put together as I haven't done any sort of research on new parts in a while. Also, I've seen those 560Ti's talked about around here as being pretty nice. But I am totally open to suggestions.

11/28/2011 1:09:47 PM

Don't get the 560's. You're going to regret the 1GB of ram on those cards. Try to shoot for at least 1.25 or 1.5. 2 to play it safe. My two 460's performed great but recently games have been destroying them from lack of vram. Finally upgraded.

11/28/2011 1:15:26 PM

Thanks for the tip! I've liked the ATI cards but as people have stated before it seems like AMD has moved to best price versus performance so I am leaning towards giving Nvidia another shot. I'm not looking to break the bank, but I also don't want to have to upgrade again for another few years. Any thoughts?

11/28/2011 1:21:39 PM

Get prosperos card, the MSI GTX 570

OR if you want more VRAM factoring in cost...

get the MSI GTX 560ti 2GB VRAM

http://www.scan.co.uk/products/2gb-msi-gtx-560ti-oc-twin-frozr-ii-40nm-4008mhz-gddr5-gpu-880mhz-shader-1760mhz-384-cores

[Edited on November 28, 2011 at 1:30 PM. Reason : -]

11/28/2011 1:24:20 PM

Buy an i5-2500K (only about 5% less performance than the i7-2600K, negligible if you're going to overclock anyhow) save the $100 and invest in a good GTX 570 where you'll see a minimum of 10%-15% gain in graphics performance over the 560Ti

And unless you're going for some insane overclocking record, the 212 is hard to beat @ $16 AR
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835103065

11/28/2011 1:25:33 PM

Should be sufficient although the last 3 games I played all went over 1.25GB of vram and I'm only gaming at 1080p.

11/28/2011 1:26:33 PM

I'm not looking to do any sort of overclocking. I'd like my stuff to last for a nice long while.

11/28/2011 1:29:35 PM

Yea, do not buy my card, I hate MSI (stock card at least), I got my 2nd card back after RMA and it's still artifacting, upped the voltage and artifacting stopped, but not confident the MSI cooling solution is enough to keep the VRAM from crapping out on me eventually.

Buy this:
http://us.ncix.com/products/?sku=57361&vpn=012-P3-1570-AR&manufacture=eVGA
or this:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127582

I mean you're going to take a framerate hit by either dropping your GPU performance down to the 560Ti level or by the VRAM limit of the 570, it's a toss-up... it's not that hard to stay under 1.25GB of VRAM, just drop your post-processing down to 2x or 4x instead of 8x (while keeping everything else at Ultra) and you never hit 1.25GB... also neodata, you're getting somewhat higher memory usage in part because of memory bleeding, also in part because you have pre AND post processing on which IMHO is unnecessary.

Quote :

"I'm not looking to do any sort of overclocking. I'd like my stuff to last for a nice long while. "

The Cooler Master Hyper 212 then is your best bet, for $16 you can't beat it. The latest gen of CPU's (i5/i7) are so low powered and low heat, you really don't need much insurance for them to last long, just improve cooling which you will be doing. $85 is overkill and you might as well just save that money for the next CPU or invest it in your GPU

[Edited on November 28, 2011 at 1:37 PM. Reason : /.]

11/28/2011 1:33:21 PM

^ Wait, you didn't get the card in your second link? What did you get?

[Edited on November 28, 2011 at 1:41 PM. Reason : -]

11/28/2011 1:41:18 PM

Quote :

"I mean you're going to take a framerate hit by either dropping your GPU performance down to the 560Ti level or by the VRAM limit of the 570, it's a toss-up... it's not that hard to stay under 1.25GB of VRAM, just drop your post-processing down to 2x or 4x instead of 8x (while keeping everything else at Ultra) and you never hit 1.25GB... also neodata, you're getting somewhat higher memory usage in part because of memory bleeding, also in part because you have pre AND post processing on which IMHO is unnecessary."

Started closing everything to eliminate the memory bleed. Still quite easy to go over 1.25. I also haven't been using both post and pre processing as much as I agree it's silly. Partially due to the fact I've been doing 3D in some of the games which shouldn't effect VRAM usage to my knowledge.

Either way it's nice to have head room. I don't want to have to think about how much ram I'm using and always be right under the limit. Guess you can't get that with a mid-range card though. EVGA made a 2.5GB 570 but I don't think it's in stock anymore.

Didn't get a chance to respond to:

Quote :

"Hell no, what a waste of money. Logitech Bluetooth Keyboard for tablets is only $40 and I don't need the extra battery life."

You really think so? It makes it look so hot though. Turns it into a laptop. Adds battery life AND a dock/keyboard.

[Edited on November 28, 2011 at 1:44 PM. Reason : s]

11/28/2011 1:42:41 PM

^^MSI GeForce GTX 570 Fermi 732MHZ 1280MB 3.8GHZ GDDR5 2XDVI Mini-HDMI PCI-E DirectX 11 Video Card .... which come to find out uses an old 470 cooling setup. I've hit P6832 with it which is pretty damn awesome ( http://3dmark.com/3dm11/2120229 )... but it's not sustainable.

Quote :

"You really think so? It makes it look so hot though. Turns it into a laptop. Adds battery life AND a dock/keyboard. "

Nothing about it turns it into a laptop. It's a keyboard and a battery pack (which I still find it hard to believe anyone needs more than 12 hours of battery life) with a USB slot. That's it. And you're paying $150 for it. It's ridiculous.

[Edited on November 28, 2011 at 1:50 PM. Reason : .]

11/28/2011 1:49:52 PM

OMG. J33Pownr, you are my new favorite person on TWW. That guide you posted is EXACTLY what I have needed. Thank you so much for this! My optimism is starting to return. I'll give the recommended settings a try and see what kind of results I can get.

Oh yeah, I also was informed about the possibility of Realtek onboard sound causing problems. That was the very first thing which I attempted - disable onboard sound in the BIOS and then went and bought an X-Fi Titanium.

The more look through the guide, the more I am becoming convinced that I'm being entirely too overzealous with my settings because I think my rig should be capable of much more. In a way, I hope I'm right. In another way, it's like a huge slap in the face.

[Edited on November 28, 2011 at 2:01 PM. Reason : sound]

11/28/2011 1:58:02 PM

Does running the 570 in SLI still create the VRAM issue or does it utilize the 1.2 from both? Sorry to always sounds like such a n00b, I've just never encountered this before.

11/28/2011 1:59:26 PM

^No you'll still be limited to 1.25.

Quote :

"Nothing about it turns it into a laptop."

Sure it does. It creates a stand for it and gives you a keyboard to type on. If you're in a car/airplane/on the go it's hard to find a place to prop up a tablet AND a keyboard. Seems like this may be easier. I'm still on the fence though.

11/28/2011 2:03:02 PM

That's too bad about your 570, but if I recall, it was a great deal. Maybe for a reason.

11/28/2011 2:25:11 PM